SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[abzy1200]

Which is such a strange thing to use…for what exactly? They want to prove that Cloud doesn’t love Tifa or that they don’t work out?

It’s like…this is in the novel BEFORE the events of AC, where we see Cloud overcome his problems…and who pushes him to face his problems? Oh right, it’s Tifa. Pretty sure we see them remain together after that…on what we can believe are better terms since Cloud has forgiven himself.

I just can’t really understand that like of thinking.

Nevermind that reminisce includes a clip of Cloud and Tifa stoked to have a family day together, going so far as to close the bar on a whim for it.

There was no need to include that, they just felt the need to show just how much Cloud and Tifa are on bad terms, apparently.

You're misunderstanding. The LTD will never end because the most extreme CAs will never give up. So they'll continue to shout in the dark after p3.

What I mean is some sort of definitive "you can't argue with this" scene or something that you can just allude to and dip. Saves tons of effort, it will be very obvious to spectators who is delusional and who is not.

Hang on.....there already is!

 

[GamerSkull]

Which is such a strange thing to use…for what exactly? They want to prove that Cloud doesn’t love Tifa or that they don’t work out?

It’s like…this is in the novel BEFORE the events of AC, where we see Cloud overcome his problems…and who pushes him to face his problems? Oh right, it’s Tifa. Pretty sure we see them remain together after that…on what we can believe are better terms since Cloud has forgiven himself.

I just can’t really understand that like of thinking.

They’re just willfully ignoring the context. Cloud is going through a depressive phase in Advent Children and that is straining his relationship with Tifa.

Tifa, being a bit insecure, thinks he’s not in love with her anymore… hence the question.

In truth…Cloud is very much happy with her. But his survivor’s guilt coupled with his inability to make things right gets to be too much for him and he leaves. But Advent Children ends with this resolved, so he’s back with Tifa and the kids again. And they are family as The Kids Are Alright confirms.

No, you got that wrong; they use it to show that Tifa has an unrequited love for Cloud. They read that scene and don't see the most obvious evidence: they're in the same bedroom, most probably in the same bed, Tifa using a line that a lot of women use when things suddenly feel unsure with their partner. It's a sentence that proves they are together but they think it shows they aren't together and Cloud doesn't love her.

What amazes me most about this is that they seem to think relationships are always rainbows and sunshine. Couples go through things, rough patches happen often.

It makes me think their only idea of romance is the Disney-kind where everything is happily ever after.

To be honest, Cloud might have similar issues in a relationship with Aerith. For one, even if he technically wouldn’t be, he would always feel like he’s betraying Zack by being in a relationship with her. Cloud, who is extremely susceptible to guilt would not only feel that but it would be expounded as he’s the one Zack died to save… while Zack was trying to reunite with Aerith in the first place.

Do people really think Cloud could be comfortable with that? The shadow of guilt would always loom over his relationship with Aerith.

 

[nars305]

No, you got that wrong; they use it to show that Tifa has an unrequited love for Cloud. They read that scene and don't see the most obvious evidence: they're in the same bedroom, most probably in the same bed, Tifa using a line that a lot of women use when things suddenly feel unsure with their partner. It's a sentence that proves they are together but they think it shows they aren't together and Cloud doesn't love her.

This is why I don’t even care about my own interpretations. I have plenty but I just use what the creators give me.

I can whip up my own counter interpretation. Cloud can’t answer her because he doesn’t have the answer for any of his problems. Now with Tifa asking him this question, he realizes he has a new problem- now he is hurting Tifa.

I don’t deny anyone’s interpretations. But I can’t stand when the writing gets twisted when I feel like it’s such a good moment. It gives so much depth to the characters. Cloud has these problems and it spills into his relationship. This is a very real thing. I love it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

You're misunderstanding. The LTD will never end because the most extreme CAs will never give up. So they'll continue to shout in the dark after p3.


No, you got that wrong; they use it to show that Tifa has an unrequited love for Cloud. They read that scene and don't see the most obvious evidence: they're in the same bedroom, most probably in the same bed, Tifa using a line that a lot of women use when things suddenly feel unsure with their partner. It's a sentence that proves they are together but they think it shows they aren't together and Cloud doesn't love her.

You know, that argument really just boggles the mind because I've lived with roommates, and I've lived with a romantic partner. You know who never asked me if I loved them? The roommates. You know who still asks me sometimes? The wife.

And I can absolutely understand Cloud's confusion here because yes, obviously I do, why do you even have to ask but you don't want to say that you want to reassure. So of course when Tifa offers him a recontextualized question that's still obviously but not explicitly about her, he answers that one.

 

[abzy1200]

Just a question about The Kids are Alright, Marlene calls Cloud her "dad", yes?

I don't know why but I had trouble reading those few lines. I think I had a brain fart or something.

 

[Yoru]

Folks, in reality we don't even need to go that far into explanations to understand what's going on in Advent Children. Cloud is depressed, doubting himself and his ability to save anyone. We even see him afraid to try anything for fear of ruining everything.

And what happens when Tifa confronts him and asks him to go and save the children?

Cloud overcomes his doubts and hits the road immediately. Not exactly the reaction of someone who doesn't care about Tifa, if you ask me.

Just the fact that he's doing something "he doesn't want to do" shows how important Tifa is to him.

It's as if the character had been written in response to Tifa's expectations... OH wait !

 

[Eerie]

Just a question about The Kids are Alright, Marlene calls Cloud her "dad", yes?

I don't know why but I had trouble reading those few lines. I think I had a brain fart or something.

Yes. First I understood that as Barret tbh.... but then Cloud's answer right there would make no sense if she was talking about someone else than Cloud.

 

[abzy1200]

Another question, in regards to the "Do you love me?" scene, what is the best translation for it? I've seen so many different translations, and a certain one I've seen implies they share a bed much more than others I've seen.

Another one, I see Cleriths using an excerpt from somewhere saying that "Cloud realizes his feelings for Aerith." Where is that from? is it a mistranslation of sorts or is it out of context?

 

[Hellenic]

Also, just so you know, most Aerith dialogue isn't skippable. If you see someone claim that someone else skipped it, they're lying. The only one you can skip is the Under Junon one where it's Tifa's that's not skippable.

You can skip Aeriths in Costa. I tried it for science on my hard playthrough.

 

[Hellenic]

You can skip all the conversations on the beach. I did so on my initial run. You can skip either Aerith or Tifa in Nibelheim. Also you have to talk with them again to get their follow up scenes.

You are forced to watch Aeriths even if you go for Tifas in Nibel. You gotta see both the Zack scene and Aeriths tower scene to move forward there.

 

[Yoru]

The not skippable dialogues are the Kalm one (tutorial) the Gongaga one, the Cosmo Canyon one and the Nibel one. They're all Aerith specific.

So yeah, Clerith can't accuse Cloti to skip Aerith moments.

 

[Hellenic]

View attachment 16015

Wow. I would love to be rejected like that.

Bruh. I can't even. How can they want to be taken seriously with things like this ?

Looks like a major bait Youtube thumbnail.

 

[Yoru]

Looks like a major bait Youtube thumbnail.

I just checked the dude main page when someone posted his video here.

I can tell you it was not the worst one lmao.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

In the start bumper, he calmly pours tea. In the later bumber he grumpily slams the cup down in front of the viewer and sits down with his own.

Perfection.

Maybe she's the framing device and the stories are all recollections by everyone else of how they started settling down into a normal life.

Lots of monotone "This doesn't sound normal" followed by "It is around here"

In short, wacky hijinx ensue.

Some of the wackiest.

But how will he find someone woman enough for him?

Myrna can't be the only woman in all of history who can handle all that Barret. There's bound to be some strong independent lady working the oilfields.

Ironically what they've been accusing the C/T side of doing.

Every accusation is a confession. I swear I sometimes forget if I'm talking LTD or politics, and that is sad.

I wish I could say this was new behavior, but it's really not. A common source of frustration regarding oldschool Cleriths was double standards and complete inconsistencies. Sometimes it was so bad that one person was arguing contradictory points because she thought both of them favored Aerith.

At the worst of times, every post some Cleriths made was like this. Like, six contradictory "facts" per post bad.

So I got delayed from posting for a while by real life stuff. I see there were lots of good thoughts I'd love to respond to... but I'd already quoted this one.

 

[nars305]

Folks, in reality we don't even need to go that far into explanations to understand what's going on in Advent Children. Cloud is depressed, doubting himself and his ability to save anyone. We even see him afraid to try anything for fear of ruining everything.

And what happens when Tifa confronts him and asks him to go and save the children?

Cloud overcomes his doubts and hits the road immediately. Not exactly the reaction of someone who doesn't care about Tifa, if you ask me.

Just the fact that he's doing something "he doesn't want to do" shows how important Tifa is to him.

It's as if the character had been written in response to Tifa's expectations... OH wait !

It’s always Tifa.

 

[nars305]

Yes. First I understood that as Barret tbh.... but then Cloud's answer right there would make no sense if she was talking about someone else than Cloud.

I was confused by this part too. I mean Barret is there in Edge since the battle just ended. But Cloud’s response confused me, and they didn’t mention the character like looking at Barret or mention him.

I did get to see this tweet as I tried to look up the excerpt:

“because marlene never calls cloud daddy. the devs never say cloud is her daddy. you just hate barret and use HIS daughter as a pawn in your cIoti delusions. get over it. marlene ships clerith AND she doesnt and never will view cloud as her "dad".”

 

[Stiggie]

Which is such a strange thing to use…for what exactly? They want to prove that Cloud doesn’t love Tifa or that they don’t work out?

It’s like…this is in the novel BEFORE the events of AC, where we see Cloud overcome his problems…and who pushes him to face his problems? Oh right, it’s Tifa. Pretty sure we see them remain together after that…on what we can believe are better terms since Cloud has forgiven himself.

I just can’t really understand that like of thinking.

What I don't get is why they pretend to not understand the concept of sleeping.

"CLOUD DIDN'T ANSWER A QUESTION ASKED WHILE HE WAS ASLEEP!!!!!, THAT MEANS HE DOESN'T LOVE HER!!!!!"

 

[Yoru]

marlene ships clerith

Are we talking about the Marlene begging Cloud to come home ? You know the place where she lives with Denzel AND Tifa. But yeah she must ships Clerith, a woman she saw once and who died short after.

"By the way, Marlene is a mini Tifa. She grew up with her and learned a lot from her. And she'll always remember that Aerith saved her. So yes, she's sort of a representation of both." a dude named Nomura.

I wonder how much he knows about Final Fantasy VII.

 

[liuliuliu]

I saw a lot of people assume Cloud is a light sleeper…but given the fact that Cloud is the last one wakes up in Kalm, I think he is a heavy sleeper…Barret and Red might just do a YT “get ready with me” video and he will be still asleep.

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm convinced some of these people are only fans in the sense that they like the ship and could care less about the rest of FF7 story/lore.

I'm also convinced they truly don't understand Cloud's character.

For Cloud to carry on the way he has and still be pining after Aerith makes him a scumbag.

He can still pine after Aerith if he wants but the motherfucker needs to stay away from Tifa and let her go.

 

[Yoru]

He can still pine after Aerith if he wants but the motherfucker needs to stay away from Tifa and let her go.

My poor girl paid for his bike and she's even working for free as a secretary, taking order calls for his new established company.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

You know, that argument really just boggles the mind because I've lived with roommates, and I've lived with a romantic partner. You know who never asked me if I loved them? The roommates. You know who still asks me sometimes? The wife.

- Nojima's way of writing ~ I mean how can people not think they're not a couple when Cloud when back to sleep with Tifa in the room, if she's just a 'friend' didnt he supposed to make sure she's out of the room before getting back to sleep?

"CLOUD DIDN'T ANSWER A QUESTION ASKED WHILE HE WAS ASLEEP!!!!!, THAT MEANS HE DOESN'T LOVE HER!!!!!"

He immediately woke up upon hearing Tifa's doubts and said "i just dont know how to approach her.." he didnt answer her when she directly ask 'same with you and I?" because we're seeing it on Tifa's POV and plus this is another symbolism that Cloud's driting away.

its difficult to see #cloti angst but in COT - Cloud's drifting away to Tifa is like drifting away to his true self again. ( metaphor) devs need to establish this because in lifestream black and white sephiroth is making it way to return. So Cloud closing his heart to everyone including Tifa is a dark turn.

- and even in this scenario if Aerith is indeed in Cloud's heart doesnt she have access to it right now? I mean it will be visible more.. because she's in Lifestream now and can communicate with him. ---> ANSWER: BECAUSE SHE CAN'T Cloud cannot see her or hear her unless Tifa talks to her in ACC "is it a memory or us?'

Tifa is again the only one who can access his heart even if he closed it to everyone else.

 

[abzy1200]

My poor girl paid for his bike and she's even working for free as a secretary, taking order calls for his new established company.

She even opened an orphanage apparently!

What an amazing woman, running an orphanage, a bar, and working as a secretary for his business, all while raising children of her own

and most of all; as Cloud's longtime friend lmao.

I actually might start crying soon.

 

[GamerSkull]

My poor girl paid for his bike and she's even working for free as a secretary, taking order calls for his new established company.

Yup, Cloud really needs to stop leeching off his friend and just kill himself already. That would solve all of his problems.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not being serious. I'm just a bit frustrated that these people can unintentionally accept Cloud to be like this.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

They were arguing that "even though they were cloti", that Cloud absolutely hated tifa and that that's why he treated her as such in AC. That he was miserable with tifa and would have been happy had she died. More nonsense like that.
This argument went on for over 200 replies, I brought up quotes, examples, everything. I sketched complex hypotheticals to try and guide them step by step to why someone might act in such a way, asking them for agreement on every step. But they were so intellectually bankrupt that they wouldn't even engage with the hypothetical since when I asked to to admit to a single point they'd respond with. "No, because I think what you're actually trying to get me to do is admit that Cloud doesn't hate Tifa, but I already showed you he does, my evidence is AC".

It was this encounter that finally convinced me that clerith was an actual cult. I have never seen a more perfect example of intellectual fanaticism. An explicit unwillingness to engage in hypotheticals or to think because doing either of those things may lead to a conclusion you don't want to admit. It was hell.

I actually responded to a very similar argument on Youtube under a Cloud and Tifa in AC video. It was the same argument. In 2020. I still remember it. I told them their take made no sense because Cloud cherishes everything so of course he cared about Tifa. Went on for quite a few replies. There was one other person a anti Tifa in the same thread telling them not to listen to me and accusing me of being a Cloti and I told them no "I just think it's stupid to say Cloud hates Tifa, not even sees her as a friend but hates? Where did this even come from?"
-------------------------------------------------------
Afterwards I butted heads with that specific Tifa anti again in other YTthreads. They were just kind of everywhere. And then they hopped on twitter "to warn other CAs about me" as clearly I was a Cloti in disguise and not someone with a different view or anything. Anyway I saw it because duh, I'm a CA and I made the mistake of confronting them about lying about me and got chainblocked by like half the CAfandom at that time because they accused me of stalking their account. Fun times lol. People STILL think I'm a Cloti because of that user who I don't even think is in the fandom anymore but thanks a lot lol.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway in the end I found out the person who started the YouTube thread saying Cloud hates Tifa was literally a 12 year old kid and they were quoting from anti Tifa blogs. They apologized to me and I apologized for getting heated at a child who until that point I thought was just another Tifa anti. I remember they said they liked my blog which I had linked with Ultimania quotes. And they apparently liked CT now and were thanking me for informing them Cloud doesn't hate Tifa and their sources were bad. Or so that was their last comment to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------___----------------
I really wonder if this is the same one you saw or if they both were just reading the same source? I just had deja vu reading your post tho bc those YouTube comments were what convinced people I was a CT in disguise or something. And it was just very similar takes.

It's also what started it all in terms of me talking about AC on my blog after that whole thing basically lol.