thetriplerhyme
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- thetriplerhyme
- jetman right? Haha he died of robber while they were getting married ( i wanted a better ending for him too)
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
- jetman right? Haha he died of robber while they were getting married ( i wanted a better ending for him too)
Hix
Pro Adventurer
Advent Children was a product of it's time, but also of it's medium. People try to gleam so much, too much, from a 100 minute movie that had to first and foremost introduce a brand new plot for a long established story - and somehow make it credible - and, secondly, have enough action scenes to make a genuine spectacle.
Nevertheless the movie tells you Cloud, Tifa and their adopted child Denzel live together as a family. Under normal circumstances, this would be about as unambiguous as the movie should have to be to get it's point across, so the film does little else to elaborate on the subject, instead moving ahead with the drama and ups and downs on personal and general levels that come with it. Just because some people believe CA's brief encounter constitutes the entirety of their characters and, as such, the entire franchise must be interpreted in light of Clerith - doesn't mean that more needs to be done to show Cloud and Tifa are together. After all, would this same group have even accepted it?
The movie delves deep into tackling Cloud's depression, a topic sadly romanticized by fans of CA. His struggles with coming to terms with the deaths of Zack/Aerith being compounded by Denzel catching geostigma, and his own helplessness as he succumbs to it also, are not some indication that he's out looking for a way to die to reunite with Aerith. Indeed, Cloud does reunite with Aerith anyway in ACC and it's as platonic as one would expect for any man seeing his best friend and his best friend's girlfriend together - he calls her mother, they joke about adopting him, he's sent on his way. All this is to say that, character relationships generally take a back seat to Cloud's own coming to terms with himself and his past, which is the key element of the film.
How many happy days has he spent with Tifa and the kids? Aye, he asks Tifa to close the bar so they can all spend time together by the end, but generally Advent Children doesn't say because it's not the thrust of the film. The plot, the action sequences, the graphical spectacle, the setting up a plot for the Compilation, these things come first and arguably define the experience. It's not ideal, but it's understandable.
That said, I will give ACC credit where it's due. It ends on a note that is suitably positive and hopeful for all. Aerith is lonely no longer, now shown explicitly being together with Zack seemingly for an eternity - which was all she ever really, truly wanted. Cloud meanwhile, finds his "Promised Land", as the 10th Anniversary Ultimania describes it, seeing out his days together with Tifa and the kids. Indeed, the Ultimania goes on to say;
"When Cloud awakens, he finds himself among his companions and children who've been freed from their deadly disease. His family is there waiting for him: Tifa, Marlene and Denzel, who asks to be cleansed of Geostigma by Cloud's hands. Surrounded by blessings, Cloud realizes this is the place he's meant to live"
It's not perfect, but you know what? This is a pretty damn good ending for the characters, all things considered.
Nevertheless the movie tells you Cloud, Tifa and their adopted child Denzel live together as a family. Under normal circumstances, this would be about as unambiguous as the movie should have to be to get it's point across, so the film does little else to elaborate on the subject, instead moving ahead with the drama and ups and downs on personal and general levels that come with it. Just because some people believe CA's brief encounter constitutes the entirety of their characters and, as such, the entire franchise must be interpreted in light of Clerith - doesn't mean that more needs to be done to show Cloud and Tifa are together. After all, would this same group have even accepted it?
The movie delves deep into tackling Cloud's depression, a topic sadly romanticized by fans of CA. His struggles with coming to terms with the deaths of Zack/Aerith being compounded by Denzel catching geostigma, and his own helplessness as he succumbs to it also, are not some indication that he's out looking for a way to die to reunite with Aerith. Indeed, Cloud does reunite with Aerith anyway in ACC and it's as platonic as one would expect for any man seeing his best friend and his best friend's girlfriend together - he calls her mother, they joke about adopting him, he's sent on his way. All this is to say that, character relationships generally take a back seat to Cloud's own coming to terms with himself and his past, which is the key element of the film.
How many happy days has he spent with Tifa and the kids? Aye, he asks Tifa to close the bar so they can all spend time together by the end, but generally Advent Children doesn't say because it's not the thrust of the film. The plot, the action sequences, the graphical spectacle, the setting up a plot for the Compilation, these things come first and arguably define the experience. It's not ideal, but it's understandable.
That said, I will give ACC credit where it's due. It ends on a note that is suitably positive and hopeful for all. Aerith is lonely no longer, now shown explicitly being together with Zack seemingly for an eternity - which was all she ever really, truly wanted. Cloud meanwhile, finds his "Promised Land", as the 10th Anniversary Ultimania describes it, seeing out his days together with Tifa and the kids. Indeed, the Ultimania goes on to say;
"When Cloud awakens, he finds himself among his companions and children who've been freed from their deadly disease. His family is there waiting for him: Tifa, Marlene and Denzel, who asks to be cleansed of Geostigma by Cloud's hands. Surrounded by blessings, Cloud realizes this is the place he's meant to live"
It's not perfect, but you know what? This is a pretty damn good ending for the characters, all things considered.
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- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Gai died of not telling any of his very good friends about his open gut wound and bleeding out on a park bench because he didn't want to ruin Ryu and Kaori's day.
At least they named their kid after him.
Small off topic...
I was replaying the final part of rebirth and a doubt arose in my mind:
Aerith ends up the way she does and that's ok but how do you think they will play the "funeral" part?
I mean right now Cloud isn't in him but I think he would remember having placed her in the water. If this part is not managed well, could becoming a sensational wtf.
Also because they could very well use this plot hole for an (unlikely) return of the LTD.
I was replaying the final part of rebirth and a doubt arose in my mind:
Aerith ends up the way she does and that's ok but how do you think they will play the "funeral" part?
I mean right now Cloud isn't in him but I think he would remember having placed her in the water. If this part is not managed well, could becoming a sensational wtf.
Also because they could very well use this plot hole for an (unlikely) return of the LTD.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
His memory is probably blocking it out. We also see him mouth the “eyes are burning, mouth is dry” speech but it almost seems like Jenova is blocking it out to make him believe he’s a puppet with no emotions,Small off topic...
I was replaying the final part of rebirth and a doubt arose in my mind:
Aerith ends up the way she does and that's ok but how do you think they will play the "funeral" part?
I mean right now Cloud isn't in him but I think he would remember having placed her in the water. If this part is not managed well, could becoming a sensational wtf.
Also because they could very well use this plot hole for an (unlikely) return of the LTD.
Sacky
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- SackyBoy
if people find burying someone romantic, then that is their major problem Devs cant focus on making scenes thatSmall off topic...
I was replaying the final part of rebirth and a doubt arose in my mind:
Aerith ends up the way she does and that's ok but how do you think they will play the "funeral" part?
I mean right now Cloud isn't in him but I think he would remember having placed her in the water. If this part is not managed well, could becoming a sensational wtf.
Also because they could very well use this plot hole for an (unlikely) return of the LTD.
might upset a ship; they just want to tell a story hence why taking shipping goggles off and just enjoying the story you see things very differently than being worried on what the other side will think of this.
Right.. I had removed the Jenova variable.. sorry my error >.<
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Remember Sephiroth WANTS him to believe he’s a puppet with no emotions. That’s why his trial has Jessie’s death in it which Sephiroth highlights that he didn’t cry.
And when Cloud himself believes he is a puppet then there will be the moment of greatest emotional detachment even with Tifa. And from here what MUST happen will happen
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Yeah, I’d imagine all of this will culminate in Cloud completely losing himself at the Northern Cave.
Yes, make sense in all.
Nomura i beg you follow the og xD
Just saw this on reddit an honestly....I just got so tired as I looked at it.
Really, just regardless of how everything goes down in part 3, I HATE this so so much.
Like, even in a best case scenario where essentially nothing changes and the multiple timelines have barely any effect on the story in part 3 I just think this is all such terribly atrocious writing that I just find myself questioning why I even care anymore. I'm not a fan of this, whatever "this" is.
I'm a fan of FFVII and this entire thing just feels like an insult to it.
...
I don't know man, I just wanted to experience Cloud and Tifas story again, and the story of FFVII, I don't even know what I'm trying to say here other than I am sooooo tired. I just want to see the lifestream sequence and the highwind scene and just get it over with and never think about FFVII again.
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GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I’m not fond of the ending myself, but I did like the rest of the game. Same with Remake.
However, I definitely think some people are overthinking it and charts like that prove as much. (I’m not reading the chart because I know it will confuse me far more than the actual ending does)
My theory is that Aerith is dead, these “timelines” are just extensions of the Lifestream having memories of past, present, and future so alternatives would be accounted for because LS doesn’t follow laws of reality. And that’s kinda it… I guess.
However, I definitely think some people are overthinking it and charts like that prove as much. (I’m not reading the chart because I know it will confuse me far more than the actual ending does)
My theory is that Aerith is dead, these “timelines” are just extensions of the Lifestream having memories of past, present, and future so alternatives would be accounted for because LS doesn’t follow laws of reality. And that’s kinda it… I guess.
thetriplerhyme
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- thetriplerhyme
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I think it’s doable. Game is probably gonna have a longer main story though. Might have less side content. (Which I think is good since Rebirth has way too much imo)
They’re apparently done with the first draft of their script IIRC.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I think the mocap actors are going to begin working on it soon, since Tifa's mocap has started liking Tifa and looooooots of CT tweets this weekend lol. Usually she does that when she gets in the CT mood, which is when she works on the trilogy.
I'll try, not sure how though
insanehobbit
Pro Adventurer
I don't even particuarly care to theorize about what the ending of Rebirth means, because post-Remake, everyone was going wild with their theorycrafting (special shout-out to the geniuses who predicted the devs would kill off Tifa instead of Aerith this time, in a groundbreaking twist that's totally not misogynistic at all!), but then Rebirth pretty much just followed the OG beat for beat (with some significant expansions/additions, just like in Remake). I've always cared more about the characters than the lore, so I'm happy to wait to see how it all plays out in 3-4 years.
Ultimately, whatever it means will just enhance/expand our understanding of events that happened in the OG, without contradicting it in any significant way, so all the major plot beats from the OG will still take place. The ending makes it clear that we're still obviously heading towards the Northern Crater early in Part 3, so I don't see why the rest of the events from disk 2/3 wouldn't just play out roughly the same way as in the OG a la Remake/Rebirth.
Ultimately, whatever it means will just enhance/expand our understanding of events that happened in the OG, without contradicting it in any significant way, so all the major plot beats from the OG will still take place. The ending makes it clear that we're still obviously heading towards the Northern Crater early in Part 3, so I don't see why the rest of the events from disk 2/3 wouldn't just play out roughly the same way as in the OG a la Remake/Rebirth.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
YES, I remember that was a frequent theory I saw back then. Aerith lives and Tifa dies instead.
Would have made no sense.
And yeah, my biggest reason to play these is the characters. So on that subject, the games are meeting my expectations.
The endings for both are still… not great for me but I like enough of the rest of it to still like the game overall.
its just that I dislike the way they remake trilogy has continually done the same thing in both games of decent 4/5 of a game before having clusterfuck endings where they deliberately put in shit to mislead and force discourse instead of having a well thought out ending
I'm terrified that the last game will end in a similar manner
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I think they may try to consolidate Rocket Town into one visit. While I can see how this might worry some people, I think it could still work depending on how they do it.
Same for some other places. Fort Condor is a board game so I expect going to the actual location will have different things play out. Corel would just be the same minigame as Barret and Yuffie did, except trying to stop a train this time.
hytekz
Pro Adventurer
Yeah I'm just replaying Rebirth in hard with no side content, and this where you realize how so little main content there actually is.