SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Not really. As much as Tifa is Aerith human side confident, Nanaki is Aerith Cetra side confident.

So from a shipper POV he's more of a Clerith than anything else. Yuffie is CloTi 100%. Cait is following the flow and Barret imo is more on the CloTi side of things. It's like a daughter to him. He watch after her ALWAYS (That's mostly for her he's going after the hooded dudes in the mythril mines)
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Nanaki is Aerith Cetra side confident.
I've heard people say this as well, but I don't know why they think that either. Nanaki says nothing on his date that is romantically pro-Aerith.
He talks about how he's sure Cloud has to protect her because otherwise something bad will happen....but that's just pro-Aerith-not-dying. So unless Nanaki has more quotes on the matter that I'm forgetting?
Barret also doesn't seem particularly pro-Tifa either btw, although I think he absolutely should be.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I've heard people say this as well, but I don't know why they think that either. Nanaki says nothing on his date that is romantically pro-Aerith.
He talks about how he's sure Cloud has to protect her because otherwise something bad will happen....but that's just pro-Aerith-not-dying. So unless Nanaki has more quotes on the matter that I'm forgetting?
Barret also doesn't seem particularly pro-Tifa either btw, although I think he absolutely should be.
It's more to say that he's closer to Aerith than Tifa.
Most of the characters are neutral and aren’t shipping anybody, other than making observations. There are no “sides” they are taking, so to speak.

They don’t have shipping goggles on like we do.
I'm not saying they're pushing for it 100% but some dynamics exist in the group. Barret knows Tifa got feelings for Cloud since maybe the start of it all. Like Marle when Tifa's asking a room for a friend. She (maybe) thinks she's discreet and secretive but oh boii everyone read in her like a book in Sector 7. That's the first thing Jessie is trying to figure out when she meets Cloud.

Of course I'm not telling you "this character is a shipper, they're gonna do dirty tricks to make their girl win". I'm just having fun.
 

Someonesbunny

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Rabbit
I understand that this is the LTD thread, but I also think we need to put this into perspective - I don't think we're really supposed to be arguing whether the love triangle exists at all because that's a false premise. What we are arguing is the actual nature of this triangle and I think we sometimes fall into the trap of containing this in a binary of platonic/romantic, and people are just not that simple, and if they ever were, then we wouldn't be discussing this at all. I've definitely joked about the war being over, though, since I think we've always had the definitive answer to "Who does Cloud Love?" and that's always been Tifa (to be clear, mutual romantic feelings, and not feelings of mutual best buddy-hood).

Given that the premise is about who Cloud reciprocates his feelings with with, I don't think that anyone should be working so hard to deny that Aerith does have feelings for Cloud because we really should assume that she does. Regardless of whether or not this is based on her residual feelings for Zack, they do exist and she feels them fully and they are directed to one person who we know for sure is alive. You can, indeed, catch feelings for someone in weeks worth of time with the right factors, and you can fall in love without knowing who someone really is - people do that all the time and for all the wrong reasons, but they do, and its unfair to suggest that the love they're genuinely trying to give is somehow indicative of an attempt to emotionally defraud.

Therein lies the nuance of Aerith's character. She's not an insidious, backstabbing person or even necessarily a bad friend. She's just incredibly lonely and mourning her lost love. It's not the person (Cloud) she wants, but the connection with someone she truly loves and truly loves her, that she once had and was taken from her.

I'd also suggest if Aerith were actively attempting to pursue a romantic relationship with Cloud, she wouldn't go out of her way to sabotage it by doing things like telling him she's still in love with Zack, but that's as an aside.

@Hix puts it well here, I think, especially the fact that Aerith isn't doing any of this to harm anyone, but that this is all because she was harmed herself. Losing Zack was a formative moment in her life - losing someone so dear despite their promises changes her perspective, and it must feel cruel to watch two others, so much like she had been with Zack, somehow find their way to each other in a way that she and Zack were not to be.

She seems at least somewhat cognizant of her own attempts to recreate the magic of falling in love with Zack and seems to understand that it isn't fair to Cloud, and her date feels like a true attempt to declare that she has decided to take her first steps away from her previous behaviour of unknowingly encouraging his SOLDIER persona and towards a more honest understanding of who he really is - a boy she knows she doesn't know the same way that Tifa does, a sore spot she has made clear she is jealous about (but for the sake of argument, if she is serious about winning his affections, then yes, rightly so; this is an uphill battle for anyone else and they should know that).

The thing is, I think Aerith is obviously aware of Tifa's feelings for Cloud, but I also think her actions show that she is taking Tifa's feelings into consideration? Aerith wants to see if she can fall in love with Cloud to prove to herself that she can move on from Zack, but I don't think she wants/needs him to reciprocate. Even the "dream date" at the end, it's all about Aerith trying to figure out her feelings for him. She never asks him about his feelings for her, because that's not what the "date" was about!

@insanehobbit hits the nail on the head here, I think: she wants to be fulfilled in knowing she can feel this again, whether or not it can be returned, but often times, it doesn't need to be - love is for giving, not taking, and she wants to be able to do so. It's really sweet and really sad, and I think part of this is the failure of seeing everything through Cloud's eyes.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I understand that this is the LTD thread, but I also think we need to put this into perspective - I don't think we're really supposed to be arguing whether the love triangle exists at all because that's a false premise. What we are arguing is the actual nature of this triangle and I think we sometimes fall into the trap of containing this in a binary of platonic/romantic, and people are just not that simple, and if they ever were, then we wouldn't be discussing this at all. I've definitely joked about the war being over, though, since I think we've always had the definitive answer to "Who does Cloud Love?" and that's always been Tifa (to be clear, mutual romantic feelings, and not feelings of mutual best buddy-hood).

Given that the premise is about who Cloud reciprocates his feelings with with, I don't think that anyone should be working so hard to deny that Aerith does have feelings for Cloud because we really should assume that she does. Regardless of whether or not this is based on her residual feelings for Zack, they do exist and she feels them fully and they are directed to one person who we know for sure is alive. You can, indeed, catch feelings for someone in weeks worth of time with the right factors, and you can fall in love without knowing who someone really is - people do that all the time and for all the wrong reasons, but they do, and its unfair to suggest that the love they're genuinely trying to give is somehow indicative of an attempt to emotionally defraud.



@Hix puts it well here, I think, especially the fact that Aerith isn't doing any of this to harm anyone, but that this is all because she was harmed herself. Losing Zack was a formative moment in her life - losing someone so dear despite their promises changes her perspective, and it must feel cruel to watch two others, so much like she had been with Zack, somehow find their way to each other in a way that she and Zack were not to be.

She seems at least somewhat cognizant of her own attempts to recreate the magic of falling in love with Zack and seems to understand that it isn't fair to Cloud, and her date feels like a true attempt to declare that she has decided to take her first steps away from her previous behaviour of unknowingly encouraging his SOLDIER persona and towards a more honest understanding of who he really is - a boy she knows she doesn't know the same way that Tifa does, a sore spot she has made clear she is jealous about (but for the sake of argument, if she is serious about winning his affections, then yes, rightly so; this is an uphill battle for anyone else and they should know that).



@insanehobbit hits the nail on the head here, I think: she wants to be fulfilled in knowing she can feel this again, whether or not it can be returned, but often times, it doesn't need to be - love is for giving, not taking, and she wants to be able to do so. It's really sweet and really sad, and I think part of this is the failure of seeing everything through Cloud's eyes.
Perfection. Agree with all of this 100%.
 

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
I might be misremembering about Nanaki.

Also reading further into the thread I see that part of the point emphasizing Yuffie noticing relates to how she just joined the group. I didn't notice that earlier, now that I see it I can only say good point.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I understand that this is the LTD thread, but I also think we need to put this into perspective - I don't think we're really supposed to be arguing whether the love triangle exists at all because that's a false premise. What we are arguing is the actual nature of this triangle and I think we sometimes fall into the trap of containing this in a binary of platonic/romantic, and people are just not that simple, and if they ever were, then we wouldn't be discussing this at all. I've definitely joked about the war being over, though, since I think we've always had the definitive answer to "Who does Cloud Love?" and that's always been Tifa (to be clear, mutual romantic feelings, and not feelings of mutual best buddy-hood).

Given that the premise is about who Cloud reciprocates his feelings with with, I don't think that anyone should be working so hard to deny that Aerith does have feelings for Cloud because we really should assume that she does. Regardless of whether or not this is based on her residual feelings for Zack, they do exist and she feels them fully and they are directed to one person who we know for sure is alive. You can, indeed, catch feelings for someone in weeks worth of time with the right factors, and you can fall in love without knowing who someone really is - people do that all the time and for all the wrong reasons, but they do, and its unfair to suggest that the love they're genuinely trying to give is somehow indicative of an attempt to emotionally defraud.
I agree 100% and personally never doubted Aerith true feelings towards Cloud. However, I've always had more doubts about Cloud. And since Rebirth (and I may be wrong) I've had the impression that they're pushing hard in the direction of "Cloud doesn't have romantic feelings for Aerith, he never had and never will". They have their own special place. Her death is a indelible mark. But the AerithxCloud soulmate narrative doesn't work anymore for me.
 

thetriplerhyme

Pro Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
I think the devs were really trying to thread the needle with Aerith's character, but the problems are: 1) They're not very good at writing women. 2) They greatly underestimated how insanely misogynistic this fandom is.

the way in the writing is just 'nojima's style' if you know what I mean.. we need have the complete game to see their point here (that's nojima's style) - Can't say i like it fully.

But one of the styles I see on how he wrote character is same with Aerith and Tifa. The contrast is not just the character but the way they made conclusion on how they realize their feelings for Cloud. --> reference here not mine

In TOTP on that water tower after making the promise it was then when Tifa realize she's inlove with Cloud, that she did 'like' him. However in Aerith's last date after the hug he confessed to Cloud and it then she 'realize' it wa s a different 'kind' of liking ( or she's still figuring things out but 'Now at least they know where they stand.)

This is Nojima's way of writing..
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I've heard people say this as well, but I don't know why they think that either. Nanaki says nothing on his date that is romantically pro-Aerith.
He talks about how he's sure Cloud has to protect her because otherwise something bad will happen....but that's just pro-Aerith-not-dying. So unless Nanaki has more quotes on the matter that I'm forgetting?
Barret also doesn't seem particularly pro-Tifa either btw, although I think he absolutely should be.
Barret is undeniably Pro-Tifa and Pro-Tifa's happiness (whether or not he's Propane and propane accessories is a question for later). What he's not is necessarily pro-Cloud. He's the scary older brother trying to make sure the boy his little sister brought home is good enough for her.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
And yeah, I never got the impression myself that Aerith was some sort of backstabby-type. But I can see how some fans might interpret it that way… the more extreme ones I mean.
Yeah i've seen plenty of those from the CT side, hell some Jessie takes are just awful too like her supposedly being an awful friend to Tifa and trying to drug Cloud with her pizza plan that involved ingredients that are used for love potions.
 

CldS7

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Luffy76
Yeah i've seen plenty of those from the CT side, hell some Jessie takes are just awful too like her supposedly being an awful friend to Tifa and trying to drug Cloud with her pizza plan that involved ingredients that are used for love potions.

cant discuss the Jessie stuff that much cause part of me wonders how much of it is influenced by the Jairus shit tbh
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Yeah i've seen plenty of those from the CT side, hell some Jessie takes are just awful too like her supposedly being an awful friend to Tifa and trying to drug Cloud with her pizza plan that involved ingredients that are used for love potions.
Yeah, it’s just as bad as people who claim Tifa is a toxic bully or is somehow responsible for Cloud’s current mental state.

Both of these types of people need to wake up and really look at the story they are consuming.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
@Ryushikaze
Yeah I know of the different types of triangles. I actually pictured the TropeTalkOverlySarcasticProductions Love triangle video in my head as I wrote that. It's just a lot of people act like there is no triangle in this story when two girls having feelings for one guy no matter how ambiguous is definitely still a love triangle add Zack and yes square. Then they get surprised that we get scenes of Aerith interested in Cloud like it's the biggest evil (not anyone here! You're all honestly very refreshing to talk with But yeah...) When yeah, they are going to show both girls interested in the guy because it's a triangle. It's just how that goes.

Also just caught up with the thread and so many good points were made. So much interesting topics as well. Lots of different perspectives. It's great to have that.
 

tsukiyo

Lv. 1 Adventurer
I think part of the fandom sees Aerith in a bad light because of the way SE is trying to convince us that her and Tifa are such good friends while Aerith is flirty with Cloud. The friendship aspect doesn't really add up or more like... eh how should I say this... you feel there's something off with the writing as if SE tried to show us too many ideas at once (?). While I don't believe Aerith wants to harm Tifa, it still makes you wonder what's up with all those mixed "signals". You'd think friends sit down and communicate but at the same time we see circumstances surrounding each and every character involved in the love triangle and looking at this all feels unpolished in narrative (kind of). Not sure how to explain it because I can't put my finger on it...
 

liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
I thought for a love triangle to work, both girl need to have feelings for the guy, and the guy need to have feeling for both girls at the same level…that’s why I think they are killing the LTD in rebirth, because Cloud clearly have strong romantic feelings for Tifa. His feeling for Aerith is not so strong, and in my play through, he called her a “Nakama”

Remember a great deal with all these optional scenes is that they all have to make sense in the larger picture. So for players like me, Cloud turned down Aerith(intentionally or unintentionally) and this will be the case for Pt3. The story wouldn’t make sense at all for players who got this scene to suddenly see Cloud romance Aerith after that.

Same can be hold against player who takes Tifa’s route. However, Even you took out all the date scene, Cloud and Tifa still have a moment in Gongaga. And that movement is Cloud open up to Tifa. This is super rare in the game honestly, cloud has never voiced his concern of not being himself to any other people. Including a dying Aerith.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
I thought for a love triangle to work, both girl need to have feelings for the guy, and the guy need to have feeling for both girls at the same level…that’s why I think they are killing the LTD in rebirth, because Cloud clearly have strong romantic feelings for Tifa. His feeling for Aerith is not so strong, and in my play through, he called her a “Nakama”

Remember a great deal with all these optional scenes is that they all have to make sense in the larger picture. So for players like me, Cloud turned down Aerith(intentionally or unintentionally) and this will be the case for Pt3. The story wouldn’t make sense at all for players who got this scene to suddenly see Cloud romance Aerith after that.

Same can be hold against player who takes Tifa’s route. However, Even you took out all the date scene, Cloud and Tifa still have a moment in Gongaga. And that movement is Cloud open up to Tifa. This is super rare in the game honestly, cloud has never voiced his concern of not being himself to any other people. Including a dying Aerith.
Not really. A love triangle is just any situation with three people where some of the people have romantic feelings for someone else in the triangle. The guy could be clueless, or reciprocrate or not, it's still a triangle regardless. People just often think because it's a triangle the guy has feelings but that's not actually a requirement. And here is the video I was talking about. It's great at explaining it. As what pointed out there are also different types.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I never really considered it like a true LTD to be honest. Aerith/Cloud "love story" is only made of "What if". In 1997 (let's say when Zack wasn't really a thing to make it simple) sure Cloud could develop romantic feelings but the chick dies. They knew each other for 2 weeks. We knew from the LS segment that Tifa was the one that started it all. She was the one that made Cloud take on his journey. I don't know at what moment in time a "What if" ship became the big CANON soulmate thing we can read today. It's okay if you wanna see Cloud with Aerith. Good for you. But it was never a thing to begin with.

I'm so sorry if I sound harsh and like an asshole. It's been 25 years now and I feel like a fool who hasn't played the same game as everyone else.
 

liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
And I don’t think Red is a Clerith shipper as some CAs claimed
I finally got sometime to do second play through and I just have to take Nanaki the good boy to the date…
Red’s date actually have a lot of lore in it. And he is quite worried of Aerith. But the reason he mentioned Aerith is because they shared future memories in Midgar, and he knows Aerith will die. Even though he almost forgets all about it, he is still worried. Red is such a good boy, he really reminds me of my dog a lot.

Let’s say the real gossip girls in the group are Barret, Yuffie and Cait…the fact that 2 of them are grown ass men is funny.
 
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liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
Not really. A love triangle is just any situation with three people where some of the people have romantic feelings for someone else in the triangle. The guy could be clueless, or reciprocrate or not, it's still a triangle regardless. People just often think because it's a triangle the guy has feelings but that's not actually a requirement. And here is the video I was talking about. It's great at explaining it. As what pointed out there are also different types.
But that doesn’t make sense if one side is unrequited? If you and your partner are perfectly in love, but there is another person hits on you, is it a love triangle?
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
But that doesn’t make sense if one side is unrequited? If you and your partner are perfectly in love, but there is another person hits on you, is it a love triangle?
In a story, depending on how its presented, yes, but usually there is some element of uncertainty about the outcome of it.
If the story makes it seem like the person doing the seducing is succeeding, even if they really aren't, then it's still seen as a love triangle because that's how we, the viewer, experience it.

That having been said, ffvii DEFINITELY doesn't have a love triangle, and I hate that we keep using the term. It either has a love square, or nothing. A triangle is the one thing it most definitely does not have.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
But that doesn’t make sense if one side is unrequited? If you and your partner are perfectly in love, but there is another person hits on you, is it a love triangle?
That's not how the story starts out. The fact either Cloud or even Tifa are interested in eachother is a complete secret in OG until the LS scene. It's part of a plot twist and a spoiler revealed later. OG was set up as a triangle. In fact during 1997 love triangles were popular because of the success of Evangelion and other shows like I said Kimagure Orange Road. We the players were supposed to have no idea about Cloud or Tifa's feelings in OG. All we were supposed to know was the fact two girls like one guy. That's the triangle and that's why there is a debate. Cloud and Tifa don't get together till the end of the game so story wise that's also supposed to be something we arent supposed to know in Rebirth.

But of course we would. We are fans and part of the LTD. But casual fans are slowly supposed to realize this over time. They're not introduced as a couple they're both single and introduced as friends. This isn't two partners together from the story perspective. It evolves over time sure, but it's supposed to be a reveal. And the dynamic is still set up as a triangle because both girls have feelings for one guy. I know maybe people don't like that but that is exactly how it's set up.

With Zack past 1997 it's a square. Love triangle doesnt mean the guy has feelings. It's the set up. It's just a literary set up and people read into it they assume feelings need to be involved for there to be a triangle. But you can 100% have unrequited love and still have a triangle bc it's just a literary device.
 
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GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Maybe it can be viewed this way:

It has romance in the first half.

It has romance in the second half.

Both involve the same man but a different woman. And the other woman is mostly absent or not much involved.

Still a love triangle? (Just the OG)
 

liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
Honestly I don’t think Aerith is doing anything wrong. It is not like she is secretly dating Cloud on Tifa’s back or something, I think the group and Tifa are super aware of their dates except for the dream date.

Originally I thought they are having a 2 persons dates originally, but in Costa de sol they just casually have Red shows up and joins team Red….it just seems like all party members are really just following them around…is that even a date if there are group of people following you….
 
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