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DCFFVII Research Thread

Second trial, this time in PAL, gave the same result. I got three Game Overs and got discovered by all thirteen DG soldiers in the final run. This worst result still only made Cait Sith say "Number 6, ready for action!"

The only way to really confirm if 'Number 5' and 'Number 6' are the only variations is to rip the game's audio files and listen for anything that stands out. I hope this can be accomplished one day and that this way we'll be able to confirm all potential variations of every cutscene.


- While I was at it I checked in PAL what happens at the 100th killchain. It resets, just like in JORG and NTSC-US.

- Confirmed further, though I haven't mentioned this version difference in the thread before, that the sniper rifle Hydra P Gamma has a 4-bullet magazine in JORG versus a 3-bullet magazine post-JORG.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Played the scene just now in a save from 2008.

"Number 7. Nice to meet you"

Don't know how to trigger it, though.

It appears I redefined failure in that playthrough.
 
@Clement
Do you have any way to copy your save file and send it to me? If you have a PS2 memory card with McBoot installed then you should be able to transfer your save file to a flash drive.

Also, what version of DC are you playing?
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
Now I want to get my PS2 out and check what mine said, because I can assure you I failed as much as humanly possible on that part
 
Test #3: I speculated that performing badly in the "Reach the WRO Commander" stage mission in Chapter 4 might influence Cait Sith's line on the Shera, because Cait Sith is present in the scene when you reach Reeve in Chapter 4. But after getting a D ranking here AND in the Solid Cait segment (13/13 times discovered, plus two or three Game Overs) I still only got the "Number 6, ready for action!" line. There are many stage missions, intuitive or less intuitive ones, that might be responsible for influencing Cait Sith's spoken line. =/
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
@Clement
Do you have any way to copy your save file and send it to me? If you have a PS2 memory card with McBoot installed then you should be able to transfer your save file to a flash drive.

Also, what version of DC are you playing?


PAL. In English. Playing on ordinary PS2 with no internet connection, it doesn't appear to let me copy to a USB, says 'no destination to copy to'. Don't have a spare blank memory card.

Only three game overs? I think you need to refine your concept of failure.
 
Tutorial on how I copy PS2 memory card saves. No internet connection via PS2 required.

Acquire a McBoot memory card (search for one on eBay or Amazon or whatever). It will typically come installed with various types of software, the relevant one here being uLaunchELF.


jWVpqps.png



When this screen has popped up, insert the USB into your PS2 console.

j4iAZtg.jpg


If the USB is already inserted when I fire up the console, no screen will load.

Enter uLaunchELF.


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In the filebrowser...
mc0 = Memory Card Slot 1
mc1 = Memory Card Slot 2
mass = USB / Flash-drive


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Identify the Dirge of Cerberus save, and version, via the game's production code. In this case, DC:International, which uses the number of THE BEAST! Press R1 and then select Copy.


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Move to "mass", press R1 and paste the copied game save.


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With the DC save in my flash drive I can easily use the flash drive to copy the save into my computer. In the case of this particular save, I have made this backup copy because it has the "Number 6, ready for action!" scene variation unlocked and ready.
 
- Full disclosure on the difference in magazine size for the rifles, JORG versus post-JORG.


Rifle: JORG Magazine versus Post-JORG Magazine

Hydra: 7 vs 5
Hydra II: 9 vs 8
Hydra III: 9 vs 8

P (Power) Upgrade Path
P Hydra: 7 vs 5
P Hydra γ: 4 vs 3
Gigant Hydra: 1 vs 1

S (Speed) Upgrade Path
S Hydra: 9 vs 7
S Hydra γ: 14 vs 7
Feather Hydra: 16 vs 8

The short story is that the JORG rifles provide larger magazines, with Gigant Hydra being the exception.


The M (Magazine) path does not exist in JORG, but here are the magazine sizes for that path.
M Hydra: 16
M Hydra γ: 28
Velvet Hydra: 42

Thusly the S Path in JORG can be considered to double as that version's Speed and Magazine path.


- The Power Booster accessory also presents a version difference, this time in the weight of the accessory.
In JORG...
Power Booster: WT 750
Power Booster β: WT 1500
Power Booster γ: WT 30

Vincent is quickly affected by weight increase in his equipment in JORG, making him move slower when the gun is raised. The reward of getting the light Power Booster γ accessory is thus a very noticeable advantage.

Post-JORG, every level of the Power Booster accessory has a WT of 750. Post-JORG it takes a lot more weight to slow Vincent down, so it makes sense to keep a consistent, moderately big weight to this accessory in those versions.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Tutorial on how I copy PS2 memory card saves. No internet connection via PS2 required.

Acquire a McBoot memory card (search for one on eBay or Amazon or whatever). It will typically come installed with various types of software, the relevant one here being uLaunchELF.


jWVpqps.png



When this screen has popped up, insert the USB into your PS2 console.

j4iAZtg.jpg


If the USB is already inserted when I fire up the console, no screen will load.

Enter uLaunchELF.


K7BJSvF.png



In the filebrowser...
mc0 = Memory Card Slot 1
mc1 = Memory Card Slot 2
mass = USB / Flash-drive


yhCUsTv.png



Identify the Dirge of Cerberus save, and version, via the game's production code. In this case, DC:International, which uses the number of THE BEAST! Press R1 and then select Copy.


5MYqysr.png



Move to "mass", press R1 and paste the copied game save.


LrLPoM0.png



With the DC save in my flash drive I can easily use the flash drive to copy the save into my computer. In the case of this particular save, I have made this backup copy because it has the "Number 6, ready for action!" scene variation unlocked and ready.

I will look into this, but I'm not making any promises. We shall see.
 
I shall not expect anything but it is probably the case that you, Clement, are our only hope to figuring out how the "Number 7. Nice to meet you." voice clip may be unlocked. *cue Star Wars Episode IV reference*


- A small version difference in Chapter 10. When you glimpse the area that is accessed right after you find the first Potoin it will not have properly loaded if you are playing JORG. Post-JORG you will see that the area has loaded AND there have been some texture changes to some bricks and the opening that leads to said area. Will double-check the texture changes here at some point.

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- Erased a JORG save and began on a clean slate by immediately starting a Hard Mode playthrough. This would be the first time that I have completed Hard Mode as my FIRST playthrough in a JORG save. Bad luck struck however and the save was corrupted. It is still playable, but Chapter 4 only has one checkpoint as a result of the corruption.

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After plenty of frustration I finally managed to achieve something in Chapter 1 that I have never done before... Get S ranking in completion time! I did so in Hard Mode, JORG.

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What are the requirements for S rankings in Chapter 1 in JORG?

Targets Destroyed - 100 or more
Accuracy Rate - 75% or more
Damage Sustained - 599 or less
Critical Hits - 90 or more
Killchains - 80 or more
Items used - 0
Limit Break Used - 3 times or more
Mako Collected - 90% or more
Times KO'd - 0
Time Expired - Less than 20 minutes


When I defeated the Dragonfly GT with the timer on 19:58, I thought that loading times for sure would add those extra seconds to rob me of the S rank. Thankfully it did not, and I managed to get that elusive S ranking at the last possible second. I can't stress enough just how few seconds you are left with to spare even when you follow the shortest possible paths and skip all the cutscenes as quickly as humanly possible.

The biggest nightmare was cutting down the battle time in the midway Dragonfly battle. I retried the battle over fifty times, trying to get the biggest possible killchain by shooting drum cans, destroying boxes and knocking away missiles. After much frustration I settled with making the battle take me two minutes.

Killchains are way more difficult to keep up in Hard Mode and Ex Hard because when Vincent receives even the slightest damage the killchain will reset. The Dragonfly will randomly decide to hail bullets at you and so getting a high killchain becomes a matter of luck moreso than skill. I miss Normal Mode.

I can't imagine for the life of me how to receive 599 or less in damage in Chapter 1. Dirge of Cerberus is nasty in that whether or not Vincent gets hit by enemy fire is often a matter of luck (or lack thereof). Sometimes it doesn't matter how well you know the game, you just have to pray to Minerva that the luck is in your favor. Ergo, getting all S rankings in DC means to restart at each checkpoint until you get just the right results. That is how this game WORKS. Don't expect to perform perfectly in one single, continuous run.

Chapter 1 is definitely one of the most difficult chapters to get All S Rankings in. An example of an easy stage is Chapter 5, where I managed to get close to all S rankings in Hard Mode without stressing at all and only doing retries in the Solid Cait segment:

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If I had used an Ether to get the MP so I might transform into Galian Beast one more time, I would have gotten all S rankings!
 
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My first All S Rankings run in Chapter 5 (Shinra Manor)! Hard Mode, JORG. I made sure to count the number of Galian Beast transformations and used MP restorative items to get the required MP for the transformations.

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(Whenever I show the above S rankings, I will also have achieved S rankings for all the Stage Missions.)

How well within the margins was I?

Targets Destroyed - 130 or more
Accuracy Rate - 80% or more
Damage Sustained - 2999 or less
Critical Hits - 80 or more
Killchains - 65 or more
Items Used - 3 or fewer
Limit Break Used - 8 times or more
Mako Collected - 90% or more
Times KO'd - 0
Time Expired - Less than 45 minutes

Because the Time Expired category is so lenient, I will probably in subsequent runs decide to wait for a Mako Point to respawn so I can gain MP that way, instead of using an item. With almost twenty minutes to spare I think waiting for the Mako Point is worth it so the Items Used category is secured more tightly instead.

I will almost certainly aim to have my first "All S Rankings Run" be through Hard Mode in JORG. Because the camera is right over Vincent's shoulder in the JORG version, hitting enemies and performing critical hits is WAY easier.

I was only one category away from achieving All S rankings in Chapter 3 and Chapter 4. The former, which is the Edge chapter, has the completion time as its biggest challenge.

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Just like Chapter 1, the requirement is to complete the stage in less than 20 minutes. It won't be as difficult in Chapter 3 as in Chapter 1, but the run is still very tight. A troubling version difference is that the snipers in the Meteorfall monument plaza must be unlocked one by one in JORG, by moving around in the area and triggering their presence. I have only just begun to memorize where each of the first seven snipers are unlocked and I have yet to figure out the most time efficient path.

I much prefer how they did it in the post-JORG versions, where all seven snipers are unlocked instantly and you can shoot them all from Vincent's starting position. Asking the player to learn all six triggers (the first sniper is available from the start) and figure out the most time saving route is a needlessly demanding hazzle.
 
- Struggling with saving the four WRO members in the choppers segment. Even with all my planning and skill, Hard Mode in JORG is turning out harder than expected. The main reason for the difficulty going up is because often one missile is all it takes for a WRO dude to die. No mistakes allowed. If I can only get past the missile hellstorm that is "Chopper #11, #12 & #13" then I will be good. It is always this particular hellstorm that stands between me and victory. The rest is easy.

What I'm trying to say is...


- Triggered a glitch at the start of Chapter 6 where a Guard Hound...turned invincible! o____O It didn't matter what I did. I could cause no damage and the Guard Hound never even flinched. I recorded the glitch and the video is now in my "Glitches & Bugs" folder.
 
So far the only way I have managed to save the four WRO members is by employing the glitch where I leave the area and thusly prevent the choppers from firing any missiles. Post-JORG, it is almost impossible to return in time to defeat the three choppers before they are out of sight. In JORG it is impossible to return in time. Matters are not helped by the fact that your guns, even the rifle, has a shorter range in JORG. Even though the range numbers for the weapons remain the same between versions, Vincent's default range was seriously amped up post-JORG. The same is true for his melee strength which was increased considerably.

I have thusly acquired the Guard N Barrel in Hard Mode thanks to the glitch, but it is an empty victory because there are three choppers I did not destroy. Unless I am able to destroy all fifteen choppers AND save all the twelve WRO members, I can not honestly say that I have completed the big challenge of Chapter 6.

Scratch what I said about "often one missile is all it takes for a WRO dude to die". It is ALWAYS the case that one missile = NPC death. What we have here is the Ex Hard level of difficulty in said challenge but without the advantage of having a strong enough long-range weapon (Ultima Weapon) to destroy the three HELL CHOPPERS before they can rain explosive death on my comrades.

The strategy I have is a good one though. After you have destroyed Chopper #10, wait a specific amount of time, then destroy the four boxes in the area (make sure to not have destroyed them earlier) to rank up a killchain. With this killchain active, two of the three choppers can be defeated instantly if you score one critical hit on each one. The third chopper (the one in the middle) appears to have more HP and always require two hits even when I perform a critical hit. The time window of opportunity you have is very limited. Destroying a chopper will NOT add to your killchain and so you have about 4-5 seconds before the killchain is reset and you don't have the power to defeat any given chopper in time.

I have tried defeating the choppers in different orders. I have tried variations of rifle upgrades, accessory upgrades, but nothing solves the issue at heart: If even one chopper is allowed to fire missiles, you have failed.

Something I am yet to try in this playthrough, but which still seems futile, is to use magic to destroy a group of missiles. The reason I have not tried this is because I only have Lv2 magic. Even in post-JORG and with Lv3 Thunder (which btw has a seriously longer range than its counterpart in JORG) the timing for destroying incoming missiles is VERY precise!

Unless I make some headway in this challenge and how to approach it, this may very well be what kills my current will to play this game. A part of me actually wants that to happen because it's not healthy to stay focused on just one game for...about three months now. >___>
 
Through sheer dumb luck, I cleared the Chapter 6 challenge. I defeated one hell chopper, then the other two rained down missiles and I was shot down so a Phoenix Down was expended...and the choppers MISSED all four WRO dudes. The choppers. Fucking. MISSED! When Vincent got back up the WRO members defeated the second chopper and I was able to shoot down the third chopper right at the last second before it ended up too far away!

My plan was to destroy two choppers and then see if it was possible for me to fend off the last chopper's missiles with a combination of shooting and melee attacks but obviously I did not get to try that out.

I got the event on video. Watching the footage makes me wonder if perhaps standing close to the WRO guys, but not too close, increases the odds of missiles focusing their attention on Vincent instead of the WRO. I'm probably wrong.

My rankings in Chapter 6, even while receiving tons of damage in this run obviously, are still great and an All S Rankings run is not far off. I actually cleared the stage in below 25 minutes and thusly got an S ranking in completion time, which is something that almost never happens because I screw around too much. If I had transformed one more time, used two fewer items and not skipped a Mako Point like some n00b, I would have gotten all S rankings. What stands in my way is, again, those infernal THREE CHOPPERS FROM HELL! The true Three-Headed beast of Dirge of Cerberus is not in the title. OH NO! It is those three choppers in Chapter 6. You heard it here.
 
I did it! I bested the Three-Headed beast in JORG, Hard Mode...legitimately!





What I thought was impossible actually worked! I shot down all the choppers before they had time to fire any missiles! (Technically the chopper to the northwest fired some missiles, but those starting missiles are always aimed at the sky and never at Vincent or the WRO.) The timing is extremely precise. You have to shoot down two choppers, one critical shot each, in the span of one second, while your killchain from having destroyed three boxes (the fourth box is not necessary to destroy) is active. I actually managed to one-shot ALL THREE CHOPPERS!

My equipment was P Hydra + Nova L Barrel coupled with Rapid Fire (The Sniper Scope is a given). The 7-magazine P Hydra rifle is to be preferred way over the 4-magazine rifle P Hydra γ (Gamma). Not only will the reload time cause you trouble when trying to destroy the fifteenth and final chopper, but the firing rate is considerably slower compared to P Hydra. The sacrifice you make in power (and range to a small degree as well) by not upgrading the P Hydra is well compensated by the speed you get. Rapid Fire also helps with the much needed firing rate for this challenge.

When the 10th chopper was destroyed, I retreated back to the three boxes that are grouped together. I strike them twice with melee attacks, so that they are ready to be instantly destroyed with a third melee attack when the time is right. When the exploding 10th chopper disappears in the distance, you will very shortly hear the sound of a missile firing. This sound will come even though no chopper is visible at this point. When you hear that "pwoof" sound, you have four seconds before two choppers will appear over the mountains to the west. The first chopper will already have appeared to the northwest, but the immediate threat is the second and third chopper over the mountains and so those are the ones you should focus on first.

Use a melee attack and destroy the three boxes. You now have a 2-killchain. Aim with the sniper scope over the mountains to the west at the exact right spot. If you're doing this challenge you will have memorized the spot. At the first sign of seeing the chopper, FIRE! Instantly move your scope to the right to the second chopper and FIRE! Because you only have second to move from one chopper to the next, you are almost blind when you need to move your scope from left to right and get your aim juuuuust right to get a critical hit on the second chopper as well. Again, you need two critical hits in a row, one for each chopper, otherwise you are doomed.

Thanks to my killchain still being active and thanks to some luck, I one-shot destroyed the chopper coming in from the northwest. You have about two-three seconds to destroy this final chopper if you managed to one-shot the first two, so you can still mess up at this point. Thankfully I did not!


Not only that but I also got my first All S Rankings for Chapter 6! :D

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(I misremembered how many times I had transformed, so I used a Red Ether to transform into what I thought was the fifth time when it was actually the sixth time. You only need five transformations for an S ranking.)

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Who is the God of Dirge?! I AM! I have legitimately completed the toughest variation of the Stage Mission challenges in Chapter 6. No other version and no other difficulty mode forces you to consider equipment- and to push your skills to the limit to such a high degree. FUCK YEEEAAAAH!!!
 
- Chapter 8-1 requires an 80% accurracy rate for an S ranking in that category. I got 75% accuracy in my not-too-serious playthrough. Everything else I got S rankings in. Nice!


- Although I only plan to record All S Rankings runs for Hard and Ex Hard, there is a way in which Easy and Normal provide a greater difficulty for a player who wants top rankings. Because these modes have fewer enemies, you are less likely to score enough Critical Hits, Killchains and Targets Destroyed.

Easy and Normal in Chapter 1 means that you need to plan your playthrough and stick around where enemies are constantly spawning, because you won't encounter enough enemies (100 of them) if you just blast through the stage. In Hard Mode you are very likely to get 100 targets destroyed and more. You also definitely need to plan your playthrough in Chapter 5 (if you are playing Easy or Normal), by sticking around in the room where you find the Power Booster and shoot half a dozen or so soldiers. This is troublesome because you are very likely to receive devastating damage here. I just find it amusing that the increase in difficulty by adding more enemies will actually help you to get top rankings.


- In the first floor of the Shinra Building I noticed a wall/door that won't load if you stand in either end of the room. This is true regardless of the version you are playing.

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What you are seeing is the bottom of the night sky, which you are obviously not meant to see.

How come I noticed this? I was testing around for fun in Ex Hard in said area to see if I could find a strategy to not get instantly slaughtered upon entering the building. If you don't know what you are doing, entering the Shinra Building in Ex Hard mode is where you are most likely to get instantly killed. You'll barely have been revived by a Phoenix Down before your HP goes down to zero again and you get a Game Over, even with maximum defense boosting equipment and with Vincent being on a high level. The slaughter-level is INSANE.

So, what's the strategy? ......Move to the left. :P From there you can snipe your foes, most of them hiding on the second floor, as you gradually move to the right but without exposing yourself to multiple foes. It was in this spot where I noticed the unexpected dark blue on the other side of the floor.

It feels so goddamn good to finally have figured out how to clear this area in Ex Hard. If you are careful you actually have a good chance of completing the area with zero damage! :headbang:


You need to put 'God of Dirge' in your sig, stat!
So it was written and so it has been realized!
 
- Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you... My first All S Rankings in Chapter 8-2! :D

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I didn't originally plan for this playthrough to be so focused on gaining top rankings. I wanted one more casual playthrough where I learn stuff here and there before I do my serious, very potentially tedious "Record me gaining all S ranks" playthrough. I am still doing that of course and I did plenty of experimentation with equipment in Chapter 8-2 before I decided on what is good enough. There is also the fact that I have never played through Hard Mode in JORG with a Lv1 Vincent and I just want to confirm beforehand 100% that I can clear a Lv1 challenge.


- Leaving the game and revisiting a checkpoint has multiple benefits. Let's call it "Checkpoint Utilization". This is not only useful for when you want to restore Vincent's HP or for when you want to make sure that the Rosso boss battle starts out in your favor by landing a super-critical hit with the killchain that you built up before the boss battle. It can ALSO be used to respawn mako points, boxes and drum cans.

In the area where you fight the Shrikes at the end of Chapter 8-1, there is a Mako Point. Step on the Mako Point and initiate the boss battle. When the boss battle starts there will be no juice in the Mako Point. BUT if you leave the game, then return to the boss battle checkpoint, the Mako Point will have been restored! This methods allows you to use up the Mako Point TWICE, because the checkpoint save data does not remember whether you just stepped on said Mako Point or not.

This revival of a Mako Point can also be employed earlier in Chapter 8-1. After you have saved the five-member WRO squad, leave the game, go back to the checkpoint where you have saved the squad, then backtrack through the stage to the Mako Point that you stepped on about a minute or so earlier.

Because Chapter 8-1 is fairly lenient when it comes to the requirement for an S ranking in completion time, I will most definitely employ Checkpoint Utilization here even though I add about 50-60 seconds from this backtracking. By gaining that extra Mako Point both early in the stage and in the boss battle area, you may easier achieve those 6 required Galian Beast transformation for an S ranking in the Limit Break category. Your dependancy on Ether restorative items or having to wait several minutes for a Mako Point to respawn is seriously reduced.



In Chapter 8-2 you can exploit the checkpoint system in a very risky way... What I did was that after restarting the checkpoint after the three aerial mines, before the Black Widow that comes running down the stairs, I backtracked through the area with the aerial mines and EM barriers! I was able to pass through unscathed purely based on luck. By doing this I was able to re-use two Mako Points and destroy eighteen boxes for a 17 killchain. The gil rewards had respawned as well, granting me about 3000 extra gil (I forgot to count the exact reward but it was AWESOME) that I would not have gained otherwise. Like a BAWS I travelled yet again through the EM barriers and avoided the aerial mines. Then when I encountered the Black Widow, a normal hit killed the robot instantly thanks to my 17 killchain. Normally with the Black Widow you have to shoot its belly for a critical hit that may defeat it instantly (if your equipment is powerful enough).


That particular playthrough of Chapter 8-2 was pure magic and the S rankings you see above is a result of that playthrough. My playtime was increased with about five minutes because of the backtracking, but I was well within the margins for an S ranking in completion time. Repasting the Chapter 8-2 requirements in JORG:

Targets Destroyed - 70 or more
Accuracy Rate - 70% or more
Damage Sustained - 7999 or less
Critical Hits - 50 or more
Killchains - 70 or more
Items used - 6 or fewer
Limit Break Used - 6 times or more
Mako Collected - 90% or more
Times KO'd - 0
Time Expired - Less than 28 minutes and 20 seconds


So if you are feeling super-brave or just confident in general, I recommend backtracking in Chapter 8-2 either before the first or second Black Widow. With the chapter already having many stage missions that could easily be messed up, you are truly making a gamble here since you risk two more times to have an aerial mine destroyed and thus not get an S ranking in the Avoid the Aerial Mines challenge.


- I wish I had recorded this boss battle against Rosso. When you manage to score that delicious first-blood super-critical hit, Rosso is pretty much always knocked back and will still be recovering her stance even after the cutscene that transitions to her "Bloodburst Rosso" form. By walking straight up to Rosso, you can shoot her right in the face for another critical hit that has high odds of knocking her back AGAIN! Which means you can get yet another critical hit by going Trinity on her ass.



After this she will almost definitely not be knocked back again, but she will have lost so much HP that all you need is two or three more critical hits to defeat her. Thanks to this, I did not need to restore Vincent's HP in this battle and I felt like a SUPER BADASS! The worst boss battle of the game becomes among the most satisfying.
 
- (Weapon: Magazine Size JORG vs Magazine Size Post-JORG)

Blast Machine Gun: 16 vs 35
Bayonet Rifle: 7 vs 10

The Cerberus and Griffon variations will be compared at some point.


- Remember the room/house in Chapter 10 that showed clear changes to shadowing/lighting between JORG and post-JORG? I took some more snapshots.

Open in a separate tab to see full size.

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The ceiling and the walls received some much fitting shadows. The ceiling in particular looks odd without shadows.


- My JORG save decided to get corrupted after Chapter 9 but I didn't notice until I had nearly completed Chapter 10. Fortunately I had created a backup save near the end of Chapter 9. I have frequently created backup saves due to the game save's tendency to get corrupted. The exact same corruption to the checkpoint data happened today as I described another time way back when in this thread.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
so i went and checked my dc save (fittingly it's been 7 years since i've played it), to check the cait sith line. i had the 'number 6' line as well.

so to come up with wild reasoning as to why this is:

- i just didn't met the requirements for the number 7 line
- the number 7 line exists only in the english version
- the number 7 line exists in the files of the japanese version, but due to error cannot be unlocked
 
- Learned yesterday that I don't have to start the Azul Ch9 battle by causing him to try and kick Vincent (which gives me time to find protection behind the pillar). Although Azul does start out as invulnerable in the first few seconds of the battle, he becomes vulnerable right before he fires his first round. So if your timing is right then you can draw first blood with even moving from your starting position. This also lends for a very easy critical hit as you are standing right in front of Azul. He will be knocked back by this shot most likely and while he is recovering his stance you can land a few more headshots, before you run around the pillar for protection. That is, if you haven't already defeated Azul's first form via this method. :P

- the number 7 line exists only in the english version
I've been speculating along these lines recently. My thought was that perhaps the "Number 7" line is only possible to trigger in Ex Hard. Clement could disprove me if he says that he did not trigger the scene on an Ex Hard save, of course. But the idea is that what if you trigger the "Number 6" line in your first playthrough, then when you go on to do your Ex Hard playthrough, which uses data from your previous playthrough, then the default line by Cait Sith will be "Number 6" but if you perform badly in the Solid Cait segment then you can unlock the "Number 7" variation.

That is merely my speculation but it would make sense as a way for terrible Solid Cait mission results to accumulate beyond the 'discovered 13 out of 13 times' limit.
 
- Getting a high killchain before the Azul boss battle and then one-shotting Azul with a headshot is sooooo satisfying. :D Unlike Rosso it is possible and in fact very easy to defeat him with just one shot.


- Continued magazine size comparisons. When the magazine size of a gun is the same between versions I will simply write only one number and no "versus". The only post-JORG version I have checked yet is DC:International so I will keep an eye out for any magazine size differences in the US and PAL versions. If there are more discrepancies I expect to find it in the US release.

Although the M (magazine) upgrade paths don't exist in JORG, the ultimate upgrade from following the M path for the Cerberus (the Zero Cerberus) DOES actually exist in JORG. After you have upgrades to the S Cerberus γ, you get a choice between upgrading it to the Quantum Cerberus gun or the Zero Cerberus gun.

The M path upgrades for the Hydra and the Griffon are all post-JORG exclusive though, meaning that the Velvet Hydra and the Starry Griffon simply do not exist in JORG.

Cerberus: JORG Magazine versus Post-JORG Magazine

Cerberus: 18
Cerberus II: 18
Cerberus III: 24

P (Power) Upgrade Path
P Cerberus: 24 vs 18
P Cerberus γ: 24 vs 18
Powered Cerberus: 24 vs 18

S (Speed) Upgrade Path
S Cerberus: 42 vs 24
S Cerberus γ: 42 vs 24
Quantum Cerberus: 84
Zero Cerberus: 42 vs 24


In the post-JORG versions, Quantum Cerberus is the ultimate upgrade from the M (magazine) upgrade path which does not exist in JORG. The S upgrade path gives you Zero Cerberus.
M Cerberus: 48
M Cerberus γ: 60
Quantum Cerberus: 84


The magazine sizes for the Model Gun series is the same between versions.
Model Gun: 18
Silver Model Gun: 18
Gold Model Gun: 18
Ultima Weapon: 99


Griffon: JORG Magazine versus Post-JORG Magazine

Griffon: 35
Griffon II: 35 vs 40

P (Power) Upgrade Path
P Griffon: 35
P Griffon β: 35
P Griffon γ: 35
Dueling Griffon: 35

S (Speed) Upgrade Path
S Griffon: 50 vs 40
S Griffon β: 70 vs 40
S Griffon γ: 70 vs 40
Sonic Griffon: 99


The post-JORG exclusive M upgrade path uses the same ammo cap progression as the S upgrade path did in JORG:
M Griffon: 50
M Griffon β: 70
M Griffon γ: 70
Starry Griffon: 99

I wonder if the decision to keep the 99-magazine for the Sonic Griffon was intentional or if they forgot to lower the cap after the M upgrade path was introduced.


I now copy-paste the magazine comparisons from earlier posts into this spoiler tag below, as well as the weight differences for the Power Booster.

Blast Machine Gun: 16 vs 35
Bayonet Rifle: 7 vs 10


Rifle: JORG Magazine versus Post-JORG Magazine

Hydra: 7 vs 5
Hydra II: 9 vs 8
Hydra III: 9 vs 8

P (Power) Upgrade Path
P Hydra: 7 vs 5
P Hydra γ: 4 vs 3
Gigant Hydra: 1 vs 1

S (Speed) Upgrade Path
S Hydra: 9 vs 7
S Hydra γ: 14 vs 7
Feather Hydra: 16 vs 8

The short story is that the JORG rifles provide larger magazines, with Gigant Hydra being the exception.


The M (Magazine) path does not exist in JORG, but here are the magazine sizes for that path.
M Hydra: 16
M Hydra γ: 28
Velvet Hydra: 42

Thusly the S Path in JORG can be considered to double as that version's Speed and Magazine path.



- The Power Booster accessory presents a version difference, this time in the weight of the accessory.
In JORG...
Power Booster: WT 750
Power Booster β: WT 1500
Power Booster γ: WT 30

Vincent is quickly affected by weight increase in his equipment in JORG, making him move slower when the gun is raised. The reward of getting the light Power Booster γ accessory is thus a very noticeable advantage.

Post-JORG, every level of the Power Booster accessory has a WT of 750. Post-JORG it takes a lot more weight to slow Vincent down, so it makes sense to keep a consistent, moderately big weight to this accessory in those versions.

The only weapon I have not checked the ammo cap for, in any version, is Turk Vincent's gun. The Death Penalty has a magazine size of 6 in all versions.
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
- Learned yesterday that I don't have to start the Azul Ch9 battle by causing him to try and kick Vincent (which gives me time to find protection behind the pillar). Although Azul does start out as invulnerable in the first few seconds of the battle, he becomes vulnerable right before he fires his first round. So if your timing is right then you can draw first blood with even moving from your starting position. This also lends for a very easy critical hit as you are standing right in front of Azul. He will be knocked back by this shot most likely and while he is recovering his stance you can land a few more headshots, before you run around the pillar for protection. That is, if you haven't already defeated Azul's first form via this method. :P

- the number 7 line exists only in the english version
I've been speculating along these lines recently. My thought was that perhaps the "Number 7" line is only possible to trigger in Ex Hard. Clement could disprove me if he says that he did not trigger the scene on an Ex Hard save, of course. But the idea is that what if you trigger the "Number 6" line in your first playthrough, then when you go on to do your Ex Hard playthrough, which uses data from your previous playthrough, then the default line by Cait Sith will be "Number 6" but if you perform badly in the Solid Cait segment then you can unlock the "Number 7" variation.

That is merely my speculation but it would make sense as a way for terrible Solid Cait mission results to accumulate beyond the 'discovered 13 out of 13 times' limit.

It's a hard mode save, which may or may not have had a Normal Mode Playthrough beforehand (I have two saves, one of which has the 'number 6' line.

Looked into McBoot, but the supplier won't ship to me through Amazon. If I don't get it soon I may not be able to do this for a while as I will lose access to the PS2 for a while.

I think you may just fail to realise how epically I can fail at games.

Also: Yay, I made someone's sig. Fun part is, I'm not sure how much you even like this game.
 
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- Just now I got my first game freeze in DC. :monster: Also after that I found that the game refused to enter the menu or to be paused. All of this in the same spot in Chapter 10 in JORG. =/

- Discovered more places where the shadowing was improved in Chapter 10. I may take more snapshots down the road to see if I find more, so I'll save the image gallery for later.

Fun part is, I'm not sure how much you even like this game.
I enjoy Dirge of Cerberus a great deal but I don't think it's a great game and rarely do I think it's a good one. The fun is in picking apart the game and mastering it, especially when so many have found that even after multiple playthroughs they still didn't "learn how to play the game".

I still learn new stuff every time I play DC. Like yesterday and the day before that I learned new strategies with the bullheads (the robots with big shields). One strategy is to move really close to the bullhead and fire right above its weak spot. Your shot will travel "around" the shield and hit the weak spot, often even causing a critical hit and instant defeat. This strategy requires precision though and you may easily end up being bumped by the bullhead instead.

Another method is to get the bullhead to chase you. When the bullhead speeds up, it lowers its shield slightly and so you can shoot its weak spot at the top while you are running backwards. I have not checked if either of these methods work when you are using any of the automatic scopes, as I pretty much always stick to the manual scope.

You will never catch me saying that Dirge of Cerberus is a great game and that the players are to blame for "not getting it". The reason new players, me included when I was a n00b, doesn't get it is because the game does a poor job at teaching you how it is played. I like Dirge of Cerberus a lot but I will never stop being critical of it. :monster:
 
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