Do you think this cows had enough milking?

[Lord Noctis]

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

live action final fantasy vii

haw haw.

Its only a matter of time.

[EverybodysGrudge]

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

live action final fantasy vii

haw haw.

Yeah, thank the gods for that. The very idea makes me shudder.

[Neo Bahamut]

TresDias wrote:

But it is part of the story that they snowboard their way there. It's even in the Ultimania Omega's Story Playback section.

In any event, Mog was more concerned with the impression on the player, I believe, though I don't share his point of view here. Honestly, I think adding something like that and the Elena custcene in after all the fucking misery you'd just waded through (seeing Aerith die, then watching a video of her father murdered while she and her mother are kidnapped three weeks after Aerith's birth) might have been the best move.

It was time to lighten things up.

Of course, even the lighthearted minigame was delivering you into a frozen deathwaste.

I'm seconding this. One of the great things about FFVII is that it managed to mesh comedic relief & dismal, pre-apocalyptic events so well.

[OWA-2]

Neo Bahamut wrote:

I'm seconding this. One of the great things about FFVII is that it managed to mesh comedic relief & dismal, pre-apocalyptic events so well.

I agree.
Not to mention that the snowboard was the only way for Avalanche to reach the Crater, and find Sephiroth. It's not like they were doing it for fun.

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

I first said the point that 'it has gameplay so it is a game' when that idiot before was trying to tell me that FFXIII was an interactive movie.

Insult me again, and you will be reported for flaming.

And yes, it have gameplay to make it interactive. That's the point of it being called an interactive movie.

[Alexq]

Insult me again, and you will be reported for flaming.

I'm terrified.

And yes, it have gameplay to make it interactive. That's the point of it being called an interactive movie

That argument is retarded, but I'm not surprised given who said it. Oh yes, thats right, I went there.

By that standard of thinking ALL cutscene heavy games should be labelled 'interactive movies', but I don't see that label thrown anywhere near something like Uncharted 2. The only game that I know of that truly deserves this title is Heavy Rain, and thats because thats what they were hoping to achieve.

Besides, no movie is 10 hours long. Thats just silly.

Your argument might carry some weight at all if the gameplay felt like some kind of gimmicky, vestigal feature. But it doesn't. The combat system is the best the series has ever had, and is deep, complex and involving enough to instantly crush any doubts that it was simply an 'interactive movie'.

But hey, maybe if it had towns and it was as linear as most other final fantasy games and all the other things that fanboys are crying about then it wouldn't be an interactive movie. Right?

[Smoke]

Come on, keep it civilized. No insults, okay?

[Murasako Masao]

The snowboard was the only way to get to the Northern Crater because that's what Square decided to do with it. If they wanted to, the only way to get there could have just as easily have been a grim, solemn dungeon to crawl through.

[DanielReturns]

Snow Villiers wrote:

The snowboard was the only way to get to the Northern Crater because that's what Square decided to do with it. If they wanted to, the only way to get there could have just as easily have been a grim, solemn dungeon to crawl through.

They made it fun and entertaining rather than just walk there etc. This is the kind of thing I sorely miss in games now...

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

That argument is retarded

It is not retarded. He made the claim that the game is an interactive movie and you called him an idiot for it. It is an interactive movie. A large proportion of the game is cutscenes melded with a lack lustre "fight fight fight" attitude, with no real room to explore for much of the game. It is the very definition of interactive movie.

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

By that standard of thinking ALL cutscene heavy games should be labelled 'interactive movies',

That is a straw man. We are talking about FFXIII and we can justify it by a. the number of cut scenes and footage and b. the lack of gameplay with many RPG elements taken away.

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

but I don't see that label thrown anywhere near something like Uncharted 2. The only game that I know of that truly deserves this title is Heavy Rain, and thats because thats what they were hoping to achieve.

I don't care about those games enough to rant about their problems.

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

Besides, no movie is 10 hours long. Thats just silly.

No movie could possibly be 10 hours long, isn't that just the point? (with the exception of LOTR) This game has gone one worse than even a movie? The difference being that for 20 hours you get to move down a line? Also, FFXIII isn't exactly LOTR. The whole idea of a game is to BE A GAME.

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

Your argument might carry some weight at all if the gameplay felt like some kind of gimmicky, vestigal feature. But it doesn't.

But it does. For pretty much all the game you are relying on computer AI for 2 characters, you are using a dumbed down gambit system, and most creatures can be beaten with Auto battle or small inputs on the joypad. There are no minigames to speak of and side quests are just more battles. Which of these do you find not to be a gimmick?

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

The combat system is the best the series has ever had, and is deep,

Whenever someone uses the word deep, always be aware that they are usually talking nonsense.

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

complex and involving enough to instantly crush any doubts that it was simply an 'interactive movie'.

The combat system alone does not mean this is any less of an interactive movie. Please learn what the word "Interactive" means.

Oerba Yun Fang wrote:

But hey, maybe if it had towns and it was as linear as most other final fantasy games and all the other things that fanboys are crying about then it wouldn't be an interactive movie. Right?

That is correct, since towns give people more interactivity. They allow a person who to talk to, where to go and to INTERACT with the game. To explore. It isn't just towns as people continually keep stating and you continually keep dodging.

And please no more of this "if FFXIII was as linear as previous titles" It is more linear than ANY of the others. By all means criticise but stop lying.

[I'm Batman]

Uncharted 2.

The game is not cutscene heavy. Each cutscene comes out a wide berth of gameplay and never stay longer than they need to. Much of the plot occurs during gameplay.

[Alexq]

It is not retarded. He made the claim that the game is an interactive movie and you called him an idiot for it. It is an interactive movie. A large proportion of the game is cutscenes melded with a lack lustre "fight fight fight" attitude, with no real room to explore for much of the game. It is the very definition of interactive movie.

No, I'm fairly sure Heavy Rain is the closest thing to the definition of an interactive movie. Like I said before. The fighting aspect that you find so 'lacklustre' is mostly whats keeping me playing because it is damn fun and engaging and theres a lot of it.

That is a straw man. We are talking about FFXIII and we can justify it by a. the number of cut scenes and footage and b. the lack of gameplay with many RPG elements taken away.

The cutscenes are just the updatd modern day renditions of all the times in the previous games when all the party would sit around and you were forced to endlessly tap O to find the next dialogue box. It had happened frequently in the previous Final Fantasy's, the only difference this time around is that everything is voiced over. Sure that makes it look more like a movie, but it still plays like a game.

As for your point B, I never exactly thought the tedious trawling through menu screens to micro manage your parties equipment and stats, or the sheer mountains of repetitive fetch quests to be compelling gameplay elements anyway, so I'm glad they've been done away with so we can actually focus on the story that matters.

No movie could possibly be 10 hours long, isn't that just the point? (with the exception of LOTR) This game has gone one worse than even a movie? The difference being that for 20 hours you get to move down a line? Also, FFXIII isn't exactly LOTR. The whole idea of a game is to BE A GAME.

Exactly, this game IS A GAME. Thats the point.

But it does. For pretty much all the game you are relying on computer AI for 2 characters

Not a problem, the AI is smart and intuitive.

, you are using a dumbed down gambit system

I found the previous gambit system to be as difficult to get into as a cast iron vagina, this 'dumbed down' version is much easier to get into, much more enjoyable once you hit its stride and forces you to constantly change to adapt new strategies. Often on the fly to encourage quick thinking on the players part. Thats tight and compelling gameplay right there.

and most creatures can be beaten with Auto battle or small inputs on the joypad.

Er, no. That works for maybe the first half hour before the Paradigm System is actually introduced
.

There are no minigames to speak of and side quests are just more battles. Which of these do you find not to be a gimmick?

Yeah, I would have liked to see some mini games and sidequests too. It isn't a perfect package by any means, but the loss of these things hardly makes it an 'interactive movie' by any means.

The combat system alone does not mean this is any less of an interactive movie. Please learn what the word "Interactive" means.

You're telling me to look up what interactive means when I've been arguing about how much time you spend interacting with the gameplay? Really though?

That is correct, since towns give people more interactivity. They allow a person who to talk to, where to go and to INTERACT with the game. To explore. It isn't just towns as people continually keep stating and you continually keep dodging.

You can talk to people. Stand up close to them and they'll say the same kind of line that was once previously reserved for dialogue boxes. I haven't been dodging anything, towns just happen to be the only thing I genuinely see as a loss. Everything else is a welcome change, no more impossibly long dungeons devoid of life or plot than make my interest in the game wane, no more stunning microsoft excel-a-like adventures through the menu screens

And please no more of this "if FFXIII was as linear as previous titles" It is more linear than ANY of the others. By all means criticise but stop lying.

I'd say so far that its exactly as linear as FFX. Long corridor sections, broken up by a town or cinematic setpiece. Except without the towns obvs.

I'm sorry that was a typo, I mean't to say WASN'T AS LINEAR. That one was just my bad

I called the other guy an idiot because he can't argue back with anything more than cherrypicking sentences from my posts to bleet about. You aren't an idiot because you'll actually take the time and brainpower to argue it properly. I don't have any issues with people that don't share the same view as me, thats all cool, but if they can't back it up properly then I don't bother to spend the time replying to them properly either. Just so we're clear and that

[EverybodysGrudge]

Yeah, I don't like RPGs where I can't control my party beyond setting a basic concept of what they will do during the battle. No matter how many characters are in the battle at once, I want to choose exactly what they do and when they do it (within the limits of the ATB gauge or however the turns are controlled of course), not have them running about doing whatever they want. I didn't like it in KH, I didn't like it in FFXII, and I don't like that it is a continuing trend in XIII, at all. My nightmare is them doing the same thing with a FFVII remake instead of using a battle system like the original or X had. I don't mind the monsters being visible and avoidable, but once I enter a battle I bloody well want to control my characters as they battle, not control Cloud and have Tifa and Barret controlled by AI, no matter how "smart" that AI is.

The only thing I've seen out of FFXII's supposedly "deep" battle system that I think might be a potentially good innovation is the new ATB bar that can be used all at once or in increments, thus providing a different level of strategy in its use with regards to using lesser techniques in rapid succession or using one big technique and having to wait for the gauge to fill all over again. THAT seems like a good idea. The rest of it can suck my Chef's Knife as far as this Tonberry is concerned.

And I also agree: Super Linear Plot with little to no exploration/voluntary interaction with NPCs, a combat system that auto-heals you EVERY battle, and lets you continue any fight you lose right there where you began it... that's an interactive move. Interactive movies can be fun, and if you're enjoying it power to ya, glad to hear it. But this interactive movie is not for me.

[I'm Batman]

My characters in FFXII never did anything I didn't want them to.

[EverybodysGrudge]

I dunno, I still see a big difference between "never did anything I didn't want them to" and "did exactly what I wanted to on a turn by turn basis because I had the option to tell 'em what to do EVERY turn." But, that's just me.

[I'm Batman]

Hey, you can play XII however you like when it comes to the battle system. If you're quick enough you can play it with as minimal amount of gambits. I did it for a while.

I've heard some japanese folks have done it without them at all, though I find that insane.

[JIMMY BROOKS: CRIPPLED VIRGIN]

As for your point B, I never exactly thought the tedious trawling through menu screens to micro manage your parties equipment and stats

Man, I love this about RPGs, which is why I love games like Final Fantasy Tactics too much. I don't want to see them go away. Fuck!