LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Lord Noctis]

http://thelifestream.net/forums/images/smilies/clerith.jpg

The mind of a clerith

 

[Edley]

 

[jelly]

People seem to forget that Cait Sith is only robot controlled by a Shinra guy.

 

[Dashell]

There is NOTHING Cloti in any of the new information! How can ANYONE see ANTHING romantic or Cloti in Cloud and Tifa sharing their feelings of desire for one another under the highwind on a page of romantic moments between the heroes?


God you people

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'd like to point out to the silly monkeys who are trying to argue that 'The Japanese dissidia site listed the canon couples blah blah blah bullshit', that this is utterly, completely, undeniably bullshit.
And I prove this assertion in three words.
No. Rosa. Farrel.
Nowhere in Dissidia's website or the game itself, is the first romantic lady of Final Fantasy mentioned. And by the tortured and fucktarded logic you are employing Re: Dissidia, her utter UTTER lack of mention means she cannot be the canon female for Cecil, despite their marriage and child.

Thank you, that is all.

 

[Dashell]

I'd like to point out to the silly monkeys who are trying to argue that 'The Japanese dissidia site listed the canon couples blah blah blah bullshit', that this is utterly, completely, undeniably bullshit.

I don't think anyone argued this.. .they just said they were disappointed that Aerith was removed from Cloud's profile
But she's still in that little blurb about FFVII which was also viewable in Seph's profile

EDIT
oh wait I guess someone did mention all the lead couples...

EDIT 2:
It would have been funnier if they had mentioned Tifa...

 

[Isabella]

So, those people who are saying fans are Cloti just because they played CC first ... what percentage of them played KH first, do you think?

 

[Dashell]

Too many

and I played KH before I played FFVII or knew anything about it... and I didn't think CxA were an official couple... I thought Cloud X Seph were

 

[Fighter]

I suspect many of them ONLY played KH.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Cait Sith's message is a red herring to soften you up before the left hook. The prediction came out wrong. There was no bright future.

Yes, it is meant that way. However, it's also delivered in the same dramatic fashion as his prediction in the Gold Saucer, which does come true. So, judging from just that, his remark about them "being perfect for each other," is strongly hinted as being correct.

In fairness, in addition to the Ultimania Omega for VII saying that Cait Sith's predictions tend to be wrong (pg. 41), it even says (pg. 120) that the Gold Saucer prediction about losing something dear could be seen as either foreshadowing Aerith's death or Cloud's mental snap at the Northern Crater. It wasn't a prediction based in the metaphysics of the fictional universe so much as a storytelling tool.

In any event, it takes some highly selective reading to conclude that any part of Cait Sith's prediction in the Temple is indicated as correct when the most important part -- the bright future and wedding -- are rendered invalid only a few days later in-universe, and only a few hours later at most for the player.

For that matter, as jelly pointed out, these predictions were being made by a business exec. spy operating a robot cat by remote. They can have significance as literary tools, sure, but as far as an in-universe value goes, they're useless.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that. He brings it up completely out-of-the-blue & t's like he doesn't even notice Tifa. There was no scene resolving their romantic tension. All indications up to & including Advent Children are that he was still very much fixated on Aerith. It was not a "just friends" kind of line.

Until the rest of the Compilation came along, I'd say that the line could definitely be interpreted as indicating a yearning for Aerith. That was, of course, before all of these things happened, though:

-The high affection version of the Highwind scene at the end of Disc 2 was confirmed to be the canon version
-Cloud was shown telling Tifa that he knew things would be okay as long as she was with him (Case of Tifa), shortly after the famous line about the Promised Land
-Cloud's preoccupation with Aerith -- and Zack -- was shown by Case of Tifa and AC/C -- as well as identified by developer and Ultimania commentary -- to be due to guilt; which, of course, explains his desire to see her again, as the same night that he uttered that line, he also spoke of needing to receive forgiveness (Case of Tifa)
-Cloud was directly stated to have confirmed his feelings for Tifa to match her own for him (pg. 394 of the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania scenario guide)
-Kazushige Nojima -- VII's writer -- speculated about how Cloud and Tifa's relationship post-ACC might develop, while treating a romantic relationship with Aerith as a hypothetical scenario that never came to pass

If we were just looking at the original game, I wouldn't disagree that things looked pretty favorable for Cloud being stuck on Aerith. Even with his subconscious telling Tifa that he'd be so happy to hear that she had liked him from the time they were kids, that could be argued as a red herring.

When it comes down to what's been established as canon, though, there's absolutely not the slightest question of who Cloud wants to -- and wanted to -- be with.

 

[Ladyofmoonlight]

Regarding the "I can meet her there" line at the end of FFVII....

OMG CONTEXT!!!!!

Dude, they were hanging from a cliff as the world was being destroyed by a mix of Meteor and Holy. All signs pointed to them dying. There were NO plans of going off to scour flower fields, NO plans of angsting for years over a deceased lover/friend, NO plans of even surviving. They were thoroughly convinced that this was the end and that they'd be joining Aerith, as well as all their other deceased friends, in mere minutes. And then the Lifestream rises up and saves the world and everyone is happy and all that and, BAM, they do get to see Aerith again in a sense, smiling down at them. Resolution. The end. That "I can meet her there" statement? Concluded. Finished. Resolved. Does not extent past its own resolution.

K, done ranting, back to lurking (and raising the next generation of Clotis while I'm at it. BTW, my 4 year old loves it when I look at this forum. He has a thing for Cookie Monster.)

 

[Vendel]

If we were just looking at the original game, I wouldn't disagree that things looked pretty favorable for Cloud being stuck on Aerith. Even with his subconscious telling Tifa that he'd be so happy to hear that she had liked him from the time they were kids, that could be argued as a red herring.

I completely disagree.

If Cloud didn't end up with Tifa what were his options? Forever pine after a dead woman and probably kill himself in the process just to be with her? Or love neither woman?

I'm sorry but you don't have the LS sequence, HW scene nor C/T the focus of much of the ending if you wish to show that Cloud will remain single and wangsty. It just seems like a lot of buildup for nothing. Whereas anything you might be thinking is going on with Aerith is an obvious buildup to her dying and the revelation that Cloud is seriously borked in the head.

Cloud's love life was not the big mystery of the game.

 

[Ryushikaze]

So, those people who are saying fans are Cloti just because they played CC first ... what percentage of them played KH first, do you think?

Quite a number of them. Hell, I'd wager most of the 'new' Cleriths.

I'm curious how many kids actually started with Crisis Core, though. Certainly, I know most folks didn't...

 

[looneymoon]

I'm one of the only person in my immediate group of friends to have played FF7. I know a couple of people who know the story inside and out, watched AC and/or played CC and DoC but haven't gotten hold of the OG to play it. That or they're working through it but haven't finished.

...but they're all logical enough to get that it's C/T That's without even knowing about Ultimanias and what have you.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Even with his subconscious telling Tifa that he'd be so happy to hear that she had liked him from the time they were kids, that could be argued as a red herring.

Yeah no, sorry, I don't buy that. There is a huge build-up to Cloud's identity, hell it's the driving force of the story. It is a pivotal scene of whcih the intent is revelation. It is the point at which everything about Cloud unwinds and is left open. Tifa (and the gamer) are walking through his fucking mind. We see his fear of failure, his desire to be noticed by Tifa, his secret wishes and tender memories no one can ever know, the importance of the promise by the watertower, etc. This is where the TRUTH about Cloud comes out.

To try and misdirect at this point is highly unlikely, not to mention nonsensical. It's too late in the story, not to mention that everything else in the story supports Cloud's statement. How could his subconcscious be throwing us ina different direction intentionally? To what end? at what point is this later revealed to be a red herring? When Cloud and Tifa follow the event by spending a night under the highwind, by revealing to us that all they have left is each other (in a scene everyone leaves to find that which they're fighting for)?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that. He brings it up completely out-of-the-blue & t's like he doesn't even notice Tifa. There was no scene resolving their romantic tension. All indications up to & including Advent Children are that he was still very much fixated on Aerith. It was not a "just friends" kind of line

The scene where they expressed their feelings under the Highwind not do much for you?

 

[Fighter]

A red herring is used as part of the build up in order to surprise you. The Lifestream scene is the surprise not the build up.

 

[Dashell]

I like how when one fake Japanese person at a fake Japanese restaurant says CxA is considered canon by almost everyone in Japan and everyone in Japan knows that "sheesh" they peddle that out for years and years. Then when a real Japanese native comes forward and shows EVIDENCE that ZackxAerith is the favored couple and that CloudxTifa is more popular than CxA it doesn't count or it doesn't represent the entire nation.

Really you guys, WTF?

 

[Strangelove]

I have no idea what's been talked about.

Context, people.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I like how when one fake Japanese person at a fake Japanese restaurant says CxA is considered canon by almost everyone in Japan and everyone in Japan knows that "sheesh" they peddle that out for years and years. Then when a real Japanese native comes forward and shows EVIDENCE that ZackxAerith is the favored couple and that CloudxTifa is more popular than CxA it doesn't count or it doesn't represent the entire nation.

Really you guys, WTF?

Obviously fake Japanese people are more worth paying attention to than real Japanese people, duh

 

[OneWingedDemon]

LOL, love how Fighter always manages to sum up my paragraphs into one sentence

 

[Dashell]

I have no idea what's been talked about.

Context, people.

No u

 

[Strangelove]

:kermit2:

Oblige my demands, bish.

 

[Dashell]

Not right now, I'll let someone else explain WacDonalds to ya..

 

[Strangelove]

I was there for that I mean all this 'real Japanese people' stuff.