Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
- AKA
- FHS, that cloti bitch
Tifa: "Just a little longer, Cloud. I need to wallow in my rejection..."
Cute throw back scene though ^^ <3
Cute throw back scene though ^^ <3
The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)
- Thread starter Max Payne
- Start date
- Status
Wolfmania
Saint of Killers
Ok, um. Let's take a more simple look here.
One of the arguments I heard was:
"Aerith appears before Tifa in his pre-death flashbacks, meaning he thinks of Aerith before thinking of Tifa."
Now, using that same train of thought; wouldn't It then be fair to say Cloud loves Marlene over Denzel? Since the same applies to her? That's kinda assholish if you ask me.
Or,
Cloud telling Tifa they'll build a new life toguether, their going to live in their normal lives, toguether as a familiy. Adopt a child, and act as parents. Cloud knows Tifa wants to get it on with him, but he is so enthralled with Aerith's memory he won't even be affectionate towards Tifa.
And still he gives her that amount of false hope? Puts her in that embarassing situation? That's assholish to me.
Clerith!Cloud is kinda of a douche, imo.
- AKA
- Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
You're still kinda generalizing arguments here. Someone could be Clerith solely by the idea that they believed at one time Cloud loved Aerith. That doesn't mean he doesn't love Tifa as well or exclude her in any way, but it's one way of looking at it. It'd be the same as me saying 'Cloti!Cloud is a pervert who sneaks around stealing underwear!' when not everyone views that particular scene as wholly canon.
(it is btw, his underoos were getting dirty)
- AKA
- Zee
eeeh i feel like that's just as flimsy as "canon couple hand reach" evidence.
the ff series likes to repeat certain themes/scenes, but i don't think it means that much.
i love aki i love all her posts they are good posts
but yeah i agree don't generalize clerith viewpoints, there's actually more variation then you might think.
- AKA
- Zee
Splintered
unsavory tart
Cloud at Costa de sol:
"...nice view."
Or something like that, can't remember what his exact words are but you get the idea
- AKA
- Noctis
Did Cloud also rub lotion on a girl? 
- AKA
- So many names
Bah, that's still Zack!Cloud at Costa Del Sol. It seems to me it'd be rather out of character for the post-Lifestream Cloud.
Anastar
undercover Clerith evangelist
Ryu
Since it is optional, that makes all of your interpretation about their relationship in AC/ACC and afterwards up to speculation.
Here's a Clerith friend explaining what I just said in different words:
Why do you think we Cleriths focus so much on the outcome of that scene? Cloud having a separate room? Tifa wanting to know if Cloud loves her in COT? Them not showing any signs of intimacy despite claims of them having sex on top of a rock? These are what you call outcomes that's beyond player control. That's what makes an optional scene canon other than the creators saying so. ~Shrouded
Well said, Shrouded. Everything that happens after the HW scene can be interpreted according to the HA version as well as the LA version. There is absolutely nothing that confirms one version or the other actually happened. You talk about story summaries as validating one version. Please. That's contradicted by the fact that Cloud and Tifa are shown to have separate rooms. That's contradicted by the fact that we have seen NO hint of behaviors that would confirm them as a couple - for example, a kiss or a hug or an "I love you" - in a non-optional scene.
No, I no longer accept the story summaries as confirming evidence for the things with Shadow and Terra, since I wasn't given a full explanation of it.
Personally, I don't give two craps whether Nomura not knowing ruins the idea of canon for Star Wars. It pertains to the Compilation. Nomura wrote a good part of FFVII as well as AC/ACC. If he doesn't know or care what Cloud and Tifa's relationship is or whether they are romantically involved, then that's what the story is supposed to be. Their relationship is up to interpretation, like I've been saying from the start.
See page 232 at the top? If you go to page 232, it says:
Deviation - Two versions of the conversation before the final battle
Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa's affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two's conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly. ~page 232, Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania
The CloudxAerith Date scene picture also has a page number at the top. If you turn to that page, you will get an explanation about the divergences.
Therefore, the Divergence is actually listed on the FTOIL page since it gives you the page number where the Divergence is discussed. The Divergence is actually part of the information provided about the scene.
During their holiday, Tifa and Marlene were cleaning the room that was now Cloud's office. There were many slips that laid scattered about unsorted. One of them caught Tifa's eye.
Client Name - Elmyra Gainsborough
Delivery Item - Bouquet
Destination - The Forgotten City
Tifa put the slip away with the others as if nothing happened, but she was trembling severely. Transporting mail around the world meant he was traveling around his past too. She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn't protect Aerith. Cloud was trying to overcome that and live on. But, going back to the place where he parted from Aerith might mean that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart again.
It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.
"Shall I join you?" There was something she wanted to talk to him about.
"I want to drink alone."
Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, "Then drink in your room."
Tifa is still calling it "your room" after the story referred to it as Cloud's office. That means Tifa considers it "Cloud's room", which means it's not a room that she shares with him. There's a bed and further evidence that it's Cloud's room, so it's not unreasonable to assume that he sleeps there.
Tifa wondered if they became a real family after Denzel appeared. Cloud was clearly taking less jobs. At night, he would always make sure he had time to spend with the children. The silly little conversations he had with Tifa were also back.
First, Tifa wonders this after Denzel appeared - so any change in Cloud's behavior was apparently motivated by the fact that Cloud had taken in a child whom Aerith had brought to him.
Tifa wonders if they're a real family now because Cloud is taking less jobs, apparently to spend more time with the children. Again, it seems motivated by Denzel.
So, by "real family", Tifa seems to be evaluating the family dynamics in comparison to other families, and seems to think it's different because Cloud is spending more time with the kids.
The point is that Tifa's the only one wondering whether they've become a "real family." Cloud never wonders whether they've become a "real family."
The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith. ~Tifa's character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
So even Tifa seems to realize that Aerith's more important to Cloud.
Once again, all of the "preponderance of evidence" that you keep talking about is all in your opinion. It has not been validated by SE.
The point you are missing is that we do not see Cloud arriving back at the Seventh Heaven. IF SE wanted to imply that Cloud and Tifa will now have a romantic relationship following AC/ACC, they would show Cloud arriving back at the Seventh Heaven, taking Tifa into his arms, and kissing her. We never see that. Instead, we just see him riding around in the flower fields that represent Aerith.
Then SE tells us that Cloud's Promised Land is Aerith's Church. He said he thought he could meet her there at the end of FFVII - and he did.
And you say that Cloud ignores Aerith as though it is fact. Once again, that's only your opinion and your interpretation.
Fact is, Aerith is always with Cloud. That was explained in Distance, when Nomura said that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud. What that means is that Cloud and Aerith are inseparable. They are like soul mates, a fact which is also demonstrated in FFVII when Cloud is able to sense Aerith's presence in the Forgotten City.
Trouble is, the two people realizing mutual romantic feelings under the stars is completely optional. SE even says it's optional, and has never declared a default or canon outcome for that scene except in your imagination. YOU accept one version as canon, but it is not canon according to the standards of a great many people outside of TLS.
Since it is optional, that makes all of your interpretation about their relationship in AC/ACC and afterwards up to speculation.
Here's a Clerith friend explaining what I just said in different words:
Why do you think we Cleriths focus so much on the outcome of that scene? Cloud having a separate room? Tifa wanting to know if Cloud loves her in COT? Them not showing any signs of intimacy despite claims of them having sex on top of a rock? These are what you call outcomes that's beyond player control. That's what makes an optional scene canon other than the creators saying so. ~Shrouded
Well said, Shrouded. Everything that happens after the HW scene can be interpreted according to the HA version as well as the LA version. There is absolutely nothing that confirms one version or the other actually happened. You talk about story summaries as validating one version. Please. That's contradicted by the fact that Cloud and Tifa are shown to have separate rooms. That's contradicted by the fact that we have seen NO hint of behaviors that would confirm them as a couple - for example, a kiss or a hug or an "I love you" - in a non-optional scene.
No, I no longer accept the story summaries as confirming evidence for the things with Shadow and Terra, since I wasn't given a full explanation of it.
Once again, it's only official in your opinion. Your opinion is not shared by many other people outside of this forum.
A canon that you created, not SE.
Sorry, I don't consider a story summary to be enough evidence. It needs to happen in the actual game or movie or novella before I believe it. The trouble with your story summary evidence is that what happens in the game/movie/novella can contradict what you accept as canon, such as Cloud having a separate bedroom.
Nope, it isn't enough now that someone has informed me that Shadow doesn't actually appear in the game after the death scene. I was assuming that he was seen in the game. If he doesn't appear in the game, then I don't accept a picture of him in a story summary as evidence that he survives.
And I find your need to constantly find evidence outside of the Compilation to prove your point ridiculous. Try using evidence from the Compilation for a change.
Personally, I don't give two craps whether Nomura not knowing ruins the idea of canon for Star Wars. It pertains to the Compilation. Nomura wrote a good part of FFVII as well as AC/ACC. If he doesn't know or care what Cloud and Tifa's relationship is or whether they are romantically involved, then that's what the story is supposed to be. Their relationship is up to interpretation, like I've been saying from the start.
And it's YOUR assumption that they DON'T have separate bedrooms. That makes my interpretation as valid as yours.
Just because one optional scene has a canon outcome doesn't mean that all optional scenes have a canon outcome. When I see more evidence in the actual games/movies/novellas that can apply to either side, then I think the option is what's canon.
IF/THEN means that the outcome diverges according to Tifa's affection level with Cloud.
I see you behaving in the exact same way.
Only in your opinion. In my opinion (and many other people) CloudxAerith is supported better by the evidence than CloudxTifa. Your opinion is not fact.
Only in your opinion. SE has not confirmed your opinion.
Shows how well you know my thoughts on the subject. Ask Quex if I think CxA is canon. She knows I don't.
Both pictures have a page number at the top:
See page 232 at the top? If you go to page 232, it says:
Deviation - Two versions of the conversation before the final battle
Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa's affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two's conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly. ~page 232, Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania
The CloudxAerith Date scene picture also has a page number at the top. If you turn to that page, you will get an explanation about the divergences.
Therefore, the Divergence is actually listed on the FTOIL page since it gives you the page number where the Divergence is discussed. The Divergence is actually part of the information provided about the scene.
But the page number is given at the top of the picture, so it is clearly intended as information that should be included - not ignored.
Depends entirely on your interpretation. I think Cloud declares romance for Aerith several times during the game, and that Cloud's love and devotion for Aerith is more than clear in AC/ACC.
I'm using it as a last resort to get through to you.
Heh... so you use an insult to try and distract people from what I've actually said.
LOL... you didn't even understand what I said or the point I was making.
Look very carefully:
During their holiday, Tifa and Marlene were cleaning the room that was now Cloud's office. There were many slips that laid scattered about unsorted. One of them caught Tifa's eye.
Client Name - Elmyra Gainsborough
Delivery Item - Bouquet
Destination - The Forgotten City
Tifa put the slip away with the others as if nothing happened, but she was trembling severely. Transporting mail around the world meant he was traveling around his past too. She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn't protect Aerith. Cloud was trying to overcome that and live on. But, going back to the place where he parted from Aerith might mean that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart again.
It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.
"Shall I join you?" There was something she wanted to talk to him about.
"I want to drink alone."
Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, "Then drink in your room."
Tifa is still calling it "your room" after the story referred to it as Cloud's office. That means Tifa considers it "Cloud's room", which means it's not a room that she shares with him. There's a bed and further evidence that it's Cloud's room, so it's not unreasonable to assume that he sleeps there.
So because your father doesn't sleep in the room that he uses as his office means that all men don't sleep in a room that they use as their office? My father's desk was in the master bedroom, so his "office" was also his bedroom. The master bedroom had a double bed, though - unlike the single bed in Cloud's room.
Yes - they formed a family of friends, according to Tifa. When she wonders if it's a "real family" later on, then she's obviously wondering if it's different in some way than it was when she and Marlene created it:
Tifa wondered if they became a real family after Denzel appeared. Cloud was clearly taking less jobs. At night, he would always make sure he had time to spend with the children. The silly little conversations he had with Tifa were also back.
First, Tifa wonders this after Denzel appeared - so any change in Cloud's behavior was apparently motivated by the fact that Cloud had taken in a child whom Aerith had brought to him.
Tifa wonders if they're a real family now because Cloud is taking less jobs, apparently to spend more time with the children. Again, it seems motivated by Denzel.
So, by "real family", Tifa seems to be evaluating the family dynamics in comparison to other families, and seems to think it's different because Cloud is spending more time with the kids.
Yes, Cloud is the one who grows increasingly insular, but that's not the point.
The point is that Tifa's the only one wondering whether they've become a "real family." Cloud never wonders whether they've become a "real family."
It's shown in the original game during the hand reach scene when Cloud looks at Aerith. It's shown in the original game when Cloud talks about meeting Aerith in the Promised Land at the end of the game. It's shown in AC/ACC when Sephiroth asks Cloud what he cherishes most, and Aerith is the first thing that Cloud thinks of, followed by the hand reach scene (or Cloud meeting Aerith). It's shown in AC/ACC when Cloud leaves the Seventh Heaven to go live in Aerith's Church. It's shown at the end of AC/ACC when Cloud goes out riding on Fenrir beside flower fields said by Nomura to represent Aerith instead of returning to the Seventh Heaven. It's shown at the end of AC/ACC when Cloud says he's no longer alone, which means he WAS alone before being reunited with Aerith. It's shown in Tifa's profile in the 10th AU when it says:
The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith. ~Tifa's character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
So even Tifa seems to realize that Aerith's more important to Cloud.
Oh, I scored a serious point there folks. Ryu's evading it.
Once again, all of the "preponderance of evidence" that you keep talking about is all in your opinion. It has not been validated by SE.
The whole point is that it's NOT blinking in neon when it doesn't say who she's a koibito to. And the point this sensei was making is more important than the spelling of it. She was saying that it makes no sense for the word "koibito" to be used without saying who the person is a "koibito" to.
But he says the nature of the relationship is unknown. That's pretty clear when he says that he has no clue whether or not Cloud and Tifa are in a romantic relationship between FFVII and AC/ACC.
The context says nothing about the nature of the relationship. And once again, you're evading my point, which is saying that people belong together doesn't necessarily mean they're in a romance. You want it to mean that, but it doesn't.
*yawn*
*yawn*
Look who's talking.
I think this is... the fifth time you've brought up the same point? Go back and look at my other responses to the same point before I start copying and pasting again.
Nope. Most scenes have yellow and white flowers in them, and Nomura said they went to Hawaii to film that sequence because the flowers are the same color as the flowers in Aerith's church.
The point you are missing is that we do not see Cloud arriving back at the Seventh Heaven. IF SE wanted to imply that Cloud and Tifa will now have a romantic relationship following AC/ACC, they would show Cloud arriving back at the Seventh Heaven, taking Tifa into his arms, and kissing her. We never see that. Instead, we just see him riding around in the flower fields that represent Aerith.
Then SE tells us that Cloud's Promised Land is Aerith's Church. He said he thought he could meet her there at the end of FFVII - and he did.
I know plenty of people giving Aerith her due. You are merely an exception to that.
And you say that Cloud ignores Aerith as though it is fact. Once again, that's only your opinion and your interpretation.
Fact is, Aerith is always with Cloud. That was explained in Distance, when Nomura said that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud. What that means is that Cloud and Aerith are inseparable. They are like soul mates, a fact which is also demonstrated in FFVII when Cloud is able to sense Aerith's presence in the Forgotten City.
- AKA
- So many names
Ok, let me say that I didn't even read this whole post. I doubt I will enjoy it, but I will go back and read the rest of it more carefully. But thus far, this is the most important part:
So a story summary... that is, a summary of what happened in the story, is somehow not telling us what happened in the story sufficiently? We've all seen you claim the notation describing the deviation, on a separate page, somehow invalidates this. But you are, even as we speak, claiming that the direct summary of events that has been given somehow isn't what happened.
And you don't see the contradiction inherent in what you're saying?
So a story summary... that is, a summary of what happened in the story, is somehow not telling us what happened in the story sufficiently? We've all seen you claim the notation describing the deviation, on a separate page, somehow invalidates this. But you are, even as we speak, claiming that the direct summary of events that has been given somehow isn't what happened.
And you don't see the contradiction inherent in what you're saying?
- AKA
- Noctis
TLS isn't some Cloti worshipping cult y'know.
Really lol. It's funny when people generalize... THEMSELVES.
It all makes sense now.
How do you know?
I don't think CxA is canon! But here are all the reasons why TLS is wrong!
That's very hard to do in that blinding blue text
*snore*
Huh ?
Right, and we haven't seen this paragraph posted many times b4 ? :/
U need some caffeine ?
Didn't some members say before that they had Japanese friends outside TLS that see Cloti as canon ?
In FF7, Tifa is the only one who knows Cloud’s childhood, and furthermore, she holds the key to people involved in the story of Nibelheim’s burning down, which is also depicted in CC. She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.
"Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other and confirm them to match." (FFVII 10th AU, pg. 118; pg. 120 in the Revised Edition)
"And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose that their feelings for each other match."
(U20 Scenario, pg. 232; main body of story summary)
.I have a mental illness where I hallucinate, and this doesn't look like a hallucination, and it doesn't look like it's from my imagination either, my imagination has Zack in Cloud's bed doing naughty things, and Aerith and Tifa kissing each other underneath the moonlight.
TLS created the FF7 Ultimania ? Oh awesome.
But everybody who is debating with you here, has given you countless Cloti evidence from the original game, and novella's and you still don't believe in the evidence that everyone debating here has been giving you. About Cloud having a separate bedroom, that doesn't matter. You can be in a serious romantic relationship and not sleep in the same bedroom, every couple is different <3
A couple I know in rl dont kiss each other, that's just them, you would think that they don't love each other, but they have a baby together. Cloud could live in Costa Del Sol on the beach while Tifa stays in Edge, it still wouldn't matter, because it's their personal relationship <3
Shadow doesn't appear if he dies, but he can live if you wait for him during the Floating Cont. scene. It's a optional scene. I think what they're trying to say here is that you can have a optional scene and still have a canon outcome confirmed by SE themselves.
The shadow example is much better than Sora & Kairi holding hands, epsically when Sora and Riku do it, and Axel reaches his hand for Sora's in the beginning of Chain of memories. The Shadow example hasn't been debunked yet, though the KH outside evidence was shouted down pretty fast. I don't see the FF6 example ridiculous, when the KH example looked like Sora x Axel, which would be a pedophile relationship. shrugs.
Not really. It just means that he doesn't take the LTD so seriously. And really, he has the right attutide about it, because the LTD shouldn't be taken seriously. Just because one person doesn't take it as his life mission, doesn't mean that Cloti is left to interpretation, epsically when the UO quotes about the Highwind say much different.
To be fair, much of the TLS crew debating here has given alot of solid Cloti evidence from the actual games, movies & novellas already.
So it's your opinion that Clerith is canon ? :/ It's not somebody's opinion when they have evidence to support what they're saying, it's a fact .
Again, quotes about the HA say different.
Why are you bringing Quex into this ? :/
Again it doesn't really matter if he sleeps in same room as Tifa, or don't. All couples are different. It's what that's inside your heart that counts. C:
Does it matter if it's a family of friends or a actual family ? Cloud still feels much happier with Tifa, the kids and the family whether it's made of friends or not, Cloud loves the family, and it makes him feel so much happier, that's all that matters. If Cloud enjoys being within the family, it shouldn't matter if it's made of friends, or w/e. Cloud and Tifa confirmed their mutual feelings for each other way before the family was made, plus Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, so in a way they are friends, but they are childhood friends who love each other deeply.
Why is the hand reach scene so important ? Sora and Riku do it, does that make them canon ? :/
IMHO, the quote explains that Cloud is still upset and grieving over Aerith's death, not that Aerith is the very most important person to him.
Again, SE has proven it, you just would prefer to pretend that it doesn't IMHO.
Just because they had a desire to symbolize Aerith's church doesn't mean that Cloud and Aerith are tru love. If they wanted to symbolize Nanaki by showing bits of Cosmo Canyon, would that make Cloud x Nanaki canon ?
Cloud says that he's going to close the bar to spend some time with her. We don't need to see Cloud returning to 7th heaven, when they're already explained what's going to happen.
Again, they don't need to explain what's already pretty clear. You don't always need to show a kiss to show that a pair love each other. Locke and Celes never kiss, but they are pretty damn canon, same with Ziddels and Garnet.
Cool.
Doesn't Zack take care of Cloud via the lifestream also ? xD
- AKA
- TresDias
Can't believe I replied to this much shit, but whatever. What's done is done.
How are they going to have a discussion about -- much less mutual feelings about -- issues that haven't even cropped up yet?
Also, again, there's no discussion of any mutual feelings in the low affection version. Quotes that mention mutual feelings cannot be discussing that version.
And, again for this too, the 10th AU's story summary even shows a screenshot exclusive to the high affection version.
We wouldn't have to if someone wasn't tossing the double standards themselves around like candy.
"Either interpretation is possible"?
More than that, you've called the scene cut and dry evidence that the high affection scene didn't happen. So now it's more that "either interpretation is possible," and the position you've been putting forth up until now is actually more based on "it sounds to me like she's never been told in the first place" than something cut and dry?
Apparently story summaries aren't either.
Going back to the U20 Scenario's story summary again, the part about the Lifestream sequence says "Cloud reveals his feelings for Tifa in the mental world" (精神世界でクラウドは、ティファへの想いを明かす
beside a screenshot of Cloud's line about wanting Tifa to notice him. Notice that it doesn't say past feelings. Just feelings.
Ugh. We've been over this before. "Honoka" refers to the clarity with which something is observable, not its potency. The passage is saying he secretly fell in love with her.
"Rumors" implies they aren't true.
Don't even try it.
Yes, those lines are just randomly thrown on the page, Annie. You're right. They couldn't have been meant to have any relation to each other. They're just floating around in a void where they, separately, have no meaning.
Actually, I said "it couldn't be any clearer."
Of course it's not said in the high affection version. We've been told that they communicated feelings without words. Christ.
In any event, in the high affection version, we actually do see text of Cloud bringing up the topic of his feelings, then not being able to find the words, and then Tifa suggesting a physical demonstration.
That's not exactly comparable to anything from the low affection version.
All well and good, but you're ignoring that Tifa loves Cloud. The notion of her being uninterested in Cloud romantically is, well, crap.
You're also making up a scene that doesn't fucking happen regardless of what the affection rating is. Seriously, show me this scene you keep talking about where Tifa absurdly says she's not interested in Cloud, and where he says he's not interested in her.
The scene does not exist.
And once again I remind you that Nomura's notorious for being a shit stirring provocateur; that he can change his mind; that he doesn't have the final say to begin with; that a statement from him a year later contradicts what he said in that interview; that Ultimania statements that came years after that interview would overwrite what he said there even if he wasn't playing coy; and that even if he had the final say and meant exactly what he said at that time, that doesn't mean something indefinite at one point in time could not become something definite later.
=|
And what have they told you? And have you actually looked into it at all yourself, or are you still just basing all of your arguments on what others tell you?
Right. 'Cause that same director contradicting himself a year later is not something worth noting. And the actual writer of the movie contradicting him is not worth noting. And several story summaries that came out years after that interview aren't worth noting.
You follow a concept of establishing canon that literally no one else in the fucking world follows. A statement once made can never be overwritten according to you. That's not how canon works at all.
Yeah, I just wanted to quote this because it leads nicely into the completely dishonest thing you did immediately afterward.
You know full well the word used there was "koibito" and that being someone's koibito means only that they desire you. It literally says nothing about your feelings as the koibito.
And multiple story summaries. And a script of the story. And a small collection of important scenes from the story.
Do I really need to repeat the point about there being a great many people who don't accept evolution? Spoiler: they're still wrong.
The separate room thing has never been substantiated. I still don't think you or Shrouded actually believes that, by the way.
Yeah, that's totally Cloud's bedroom. Where he keeps all his ... nothing. Not even a drawer for an extra change of clothes.
Yeah, no.
And we're back to Cloud and Tifa having sex on pointy rocks, are we? Nevermind that screenshot from just a few posts ago that shows them surrounded by fucking grass.
Repeating Shroudy's dishonest bullshit while giving it your thumbs up makes you just as dishonest.
What are you even talking about?
What the hell are you even talking about? If the player chooses to have him survive the Floating Continent, he appears again. He can be recruited back onto the team.
The story summary shows the event where he's recruited back onto the team. It shows him with the team as they confront Kefka for the final battle. The story summary also favors the sequence of events involved with recruiting Relm back onto the team when Shadow has survived the earlier sequence (this changes if Shadow didn't make it).
He only doesn't appear again after the Floating Continent if you leave him to die. Where the fuck are you getting your bogus information?
You use a retconned scene from the original version of AC (with a spectre that was said to be "nothing with any presence in reality" in the first place) for your claim that Cloud's visiting Aerith's ghost (which was said to have gone back to the Lifestream in the first place), so don't even try going there.
Not to mention that a paragraph later you're using a quote from Nomura in an interview. Pretty sure he isn't part of the Compilation. And that an interview with him isn't from a game, movie or novella. Same for Ultimania quotes.
Your double standards know no bounds, do they?
Care to substantiate that claim? Nomura's only ever been credited with the idea of killing off Aerith (and even then, he wasn't said to have written the scene). Nojima's always been called the writer by the other core creators of FFVII.
No. It's not. It simply isn't on the page. Stop lying.
In a different context entirely. On the page in question, it's very specific.
And, as always, you're ignoring that every scene of romantic confession discussed on the page mentions the page number where said scene takes place in the respective games' story summaries. This isn't something exclusive to the FFVII scenes.
And you're still ignoring the FFVII 10th AU's story summary. But you've already said you intend to ignore story summaries, so I don't know why I'm even wasting my time with this shit.
Yeah ... you say Cloud declares his love despite him not saying any such thing, but then you say SE hasn't declared an outcome for the Highwind scene despite them having done that very thing several times.
Do you really believe this shit? I don't think you do. It's simply not possible that you could think a direct statement doesn't qualify as a declaration in one instance while a lack of direct statements qualifies as a declaration in another.
How can you keep ignoring that there is no possessive particle in the line where Tifa tells Cloud to go drink elsewhere? She does not say "your room." She just tells him to drink in another room.
Again, the story only ever refers to the room as Cloud's office, and unless you think the dude has only one change of clothes, you know it's not his bedroom.
I imagine your dad had a goddamn dresser in his room too. And probably didn't keep motorcycle tires propped against the wall.
How, in a story told from Tifa's perspective, did you glean Cloud's inner thoughts? I'm genuinely curious.
'Cause nobody else in AVALANCHe would have reached out to her.
Tifa also wants to go meet her. Guess Aerith is most important to Tifa too.
That's also where we learned that Marlene is more important to Cloud than Denzel, right? And that he spends the most time thinking about the person who means the least to him (Zack).
'Cause we haven't been told that he was seeking atonement and waiting around to die in despair.
'Cause we haven't been told and shown that Cloud did return to 7th Heaven (we have been).
Yeah, he's no longer alone 'cause of Aerith ... who has officially been said to be leaving during that scene.
Which is bullshit. And Nomura did use it that way, so that's kind of irrelevant.
You do know that the final shot of even the original version of the film, which you prefer, is Cloud's desk with a flower and a new photo, right? And that the newer, canon version of the film shows that shot and then an additional scene of Cloud with Denzel. Who lives at 7th Heaven.
Seriously, what the fuck?
Which would have been kind of weird to begin with, especially since Tifa's, like, there in front of Cloud at the church. Not back at 7th Heaven waiting around for him to show up.
Amazing revelation straight from SE, folks! Marlene and Tifa are Aerith's other soul mates!
Along with Cloud!
'Cause they can all sense her!
Now, how's that for a foursome?
How are they going to have a discussion about -- much less mutual feelings about -- issues that haven't even cropped up yet?
Also, again, there's no discussion of any mutual feelings in the low affection version. Quotes that mention mutual feelings cannot be discussing that version.
And, again for this too, the 10th AU's story summary even shows a screenshot exclusive to the high affection version.
Anastar said:
We wouldn't have to if someone wasn't tossing the double standards themselves around like candy.
Anastar said:
"Either interpretation is possible"?
More than that, you've called the scene cut and dry evidence that the high affection scene didn't happen. So now it's more that "either interpretation is possible," and the position you've been putting forth up until now is actually more based on "it sounds to me like she's never been told in the first place" than something cut and dry?
Anastar said:
Apparently story summaries aren't either.
Going back to the U20 Scenario's story summary again, the part about the Lifestream sequence says "Cloud reveals his feelings for Tifa in the mental world" (精神世界でクラウドは、ティファへの想いを明かす
beside a screenshot of Cloud's line about wanting Tifa to notice him. Notice that it doesn't say past feelings. Just feelings.Anastar said:
Ugh. We've been over this before. "Honoka" refers to the clarity with which something is observable, not its potency. The passage is saying he secretly fell in love with her.
Anastar said:Keep calling me darling, and you'll start rumors about us.
"Rumors" implies they aren't true.
Anastar said:
Don't even try it.
Anastar said:
Yes, those lines are just randomly thrown on the page, Annie. You're right. They couldn't have been meant to have any relation to each other. They're just floating around in a void where they, separately, have no meaning.
Anastar said:See? You agree - it would be clearer that way.
Actually, I said "it couldn't be any clearer."
Anastar said:
Of course it's not said in the high affection version. We've been told that they communicated feelings without words. Christ.
In any event, in the high affection version, we actually do see text of Cloud bringing up the topic of his feelings, then not being able to find the words, and then Tifa suggesting a physical demonstration.
That's not exactly comparable to anything from the low affection version.
Anastar said:
All well and good, but you're ignoring that Tifa loves Cloud. The notion of her being uninterested in Cloud romantically is, well, crap.
You're also making up a scene that doesn't fucking happen regardless of what the affection rating is. Seriously, show me this scene you keep talking about where Tifa absurdly says she's not interested in Cloud, and where he says he's not interested in her.
The scene does not exist.
Anastar said:
And once again I remind you that Nomura's notorious for being a shit stirring provocateur; that he can change his mind; that he doesn't have the final say to begin with; that a statement from him a year later contradicts what he said in that interview; that Ultimania statements that came years after that interview would overwrite what he said there even if he wasn't playing coy; and that even if he had the final say and meant exactly what he said at that time, that doesn't mean something indefinite at one point in time could not become something definite later.
Anastar said:
=|
Anastar said:
And what have they told you? And have you actually looked into it at all yourself, or are you still just basing all of your arguments on what others tell you?
Anastar said:
Right. 'Cause that same director contradicting himself a year later is not something worth noting. And the actual writer of the movie contradicting him is not worth noting. And several story summaries that came out years after that interview aren't worth noting.
You follow a concept of establishing canon that literally no one else in the fucking world follows. A statement once made can never be overwritten according to you. That's not how canon works at all.
Anastar said:
Yeah, I just wanted to quote this because it leads nicely into the completely dishonest thing you did immediately afterward.
Anastar said:
You know full well the word used there was "koibito" and that being someone's koibito means only that they desire you. It literally says nothing about your feelings as the koibito.
And multiple story summaries. And a script of the story. And a small collection of important scenes from the story.
Anastar said:
Do I really need to repeat the point about there being a great many people who don't accept evolution? Spoiler: they're still wrong.
Anastar said:
The separate room thing has never been substantiated. I still don't think you or Shrouded actually believes that, by the way.
Yeah, that's totally Cloud's bedroom. Where he keeps all his ... nothing. Not even a drawer for an extra change of clothes.
Yeah, no.
And we're back to Cloud and Tifa having sex on pointy rocks, are we? Nevermind that screenshot from just a few posts ago that shows them surrounded by fucking grass.
Repeating Shroudy's dishonest bullshit while giving it your thumbs up makes you just as dishonest.
Anastar said:
What are you even talking about?
Anastar said:
What the hell are you even talking about? If the player chooses to have him survive the Floating Continent, he appears again. He can be recruited back onto the team.
The story summary shows the event where he's recruited back onto the team. It shows him with the team as they confront Kefka for the final battle. The story summary also favors the sequence of events involved with recruiting Relm back onto the team when Shadow has survived the earlier sequence (this changes if Shadow didn't make it).
He only doesn't appear again after the Floating Continent if you leave him to die. Where the fuck are you getting your bogus information?
Anastar said:
You use a retconned scene from the original version of AC (with a spectre that was said to be "nothing with any presence in reality" in the first place) for your claim that Cloud's visiting Aerith's ghost (which was said to have gone back to the Lifestream in the first place), so don't even try going there.
Not to mention that a paragraph later you're using a quote from Nomura in an interview. Pretty sure he isn't part of the Compilation. And that an interview with him isn't from a game, movie or novella. Same for Ultimania quotes.
Your double standards know no bounds, do they?
Anastar said:
Care to substantiate that claim? Nomura's only ever been credited with the idea of killing off Aerith (and even then, he wasn't said to have written the scene). Nojima's always been called the writer by the other core creators of FFVII.
Anastar said:
No. It's not. It simply isn't on the page. Stop lying.
Anastar said:
In a different context entirely. On the page in question, it's very specific.
Anastar said:
And, as always, you're ignoring that every scene of romantic confession discussed on the page mentions the page number where said scene takes place in the respective games' story summaries. This isn't something exclusive to the FFVII scenes.
And you're still ignoring the FFVII 10th AU's story summary. But you've already said you intend to ignore story summaries, so I don't know why I'm even wasting my time with this shit.
Anastar said:
Yeah ... you say Cloud declares his love despite him not saying any such thing, but then you say SE hasn't declared an outcome for the Highwind scene despite them having done that very thing several times.
Do you really believe this shit? I don't think you do. It's simply not possible that you could think a direct statement doesn't qualify as a declaration in one instance while a lack of direct statements qualifies as a declaration in another.
Anastar said:
How can you keep ignoring that there is no possessive particle in the line where Tifa tells Cloud to go drink elsewhere? She does not say "your room." She just tells him to drink in another room.
Again, the story only ever refers to the room as Cloud's office, and unless you think the dude has only one change of clothes, you know it's not his bedroom.
Anastar said:
I imagine your dad had a goddamn dresser in his room too. And probably didn't keep motorcycle tires propped against the wall.
Anastar said:
How, in a story told from Tifa's perspective, did you glean Cloud's inner thoughts? I'm genuinely curious.
Anastar said:
'Cause nobody else in AVALANCHe would have reached out to her.
Anastar said:
Tifa also wants to go meet her. Guess Aerith is most important to Tifa too.
Anastar said:
That's also where we learned that Marlene is more important to Cloud than Denzel, right?
And that he spends the most time thinking about the person who means the least to him (Zack). Anastar said:
'Cause we haven't been told that he was seeking atonement and waiting around to die in despair.
Anastar said:
'Cause we haven't been told and shown that Cloud did return to 7th Heaven (we have been).
Anastar said:
Yeah, he's no longer alone 'cause of Aerith ... who has officially been said to be leaving during that scene.
Anastar said:
Which is bullshit. And Nomura did use it that way, so that's kind of irrelevant.
Anastar said:
You do know that the final shot of even the original version of the film, which you prefer, is Cloud's desk with a flower and a new photo, right? And that the newer, canon version of the film shows that shot and then an additional scene of Cloud with Denzel. Who lives at 7th Heaven.
Seriously, what the fuck?
Anastar said:
Which would have been kind of weird to begin with, especially since Tifa's, like, there in front of Cloud at the church. Not back at 7th Heaven waiting around for him to show up.
Anastar said:
Amazing revelation straight from SE, folks! Marlene and Tifa are Aerith's other soul mates!
Along with Cloud!
'Cause they can all sense her!
Now, how's that for a foursome?
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- AKA
- Noctis
I saw him first. >:C
- AKA
- Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Okay let's take a look at Tres' repl-
I'm surprised this came up again... Honoka does not mean secretly here. That's a different word entirely. The statement is "For whom he had slight/some feelings for." I think several Japanese dictionaries actually use "faint feelings of attraction" as an example.
BTW, Anastar
Does Shroudy know that the "Do you love me" scene can go both ways? I'm pretty sure a few pages back you were repeating it again and again to Ryu as proof the HW scene didn't happen. So what is it? Can it go both ways or not?
I'm surprised this came up again... Honoka does not mean secretly here. That's a different word entirely. The statement is "For whom he had slight/some feelings for." I think several Japanese dictionaries actually use "faint feelings of attraction" as an example.
She's saying she thinks you guys told her there was a scene of Shadow showing up regardless of if he dies or not... you didn't but.. she read it as such apparently
You have to know what the answer to this will be. You HAVE to.Going back to the U20 Scenario's story summary again, the part about the Lifestream sequence says "Cloud reveals his feelings for Tifa in the mental world" (精神世界でクラウドは、ティファへの想いを明かす
She's going to tell you that the affection rating determines Tifa's affection rating and it could be as low as zero. In which case she has zero romantic interest in Cloud and he has zero in her and so on...
Yeah see? The grass was already sexually active so Cloud and Tifa may as well have been too
BTW, Anastar
Does Shroudy know that the "Do you love me" scene can go both ways? I'm pretty sure a few pages back you were repeating it again and again to Ryu as proof the HW scene didn't happen. So what is it? Can it go both ways or not?
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- AKA
- Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
well post-lifestream there wasn't a fuckton of sexual humor either
but this is also the guy who stole ladies underpants so
Marle
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Ava, Spike Spiegel, Stella Nox Fleuret, Altair Ibn-La'Ahad, Princess Zelda, Alice, Raven Roth, Faye Valentine, Tifa Lockhart, Khal Drogo
I always thought Cloud was one of those discreet, mouth breathing perverts. Ya know, the ones you'd never expect? (until they start mouth breathing anyways...)
I wouldn't put it past him to have been spying on Tifa changing through her window a few times.
I wouldn't put it past him to have been spying on Tifa changing through her window a few times.
- AKA
- Minato
I have to step in here. No matter how badly you treat Tifa, no matter how low you affection rating is... They still spend the night together, huddled up in the grass expressing their feelings for each other through means other then words. Affection rating only affects to what degree tifa is embarrassed.
We see how Aerith's concioousness lives on in Case of the Lifestream. It did not involve Cloud until she had no other recourse, she didn't even think it could until Sephiroth did his thing.
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Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
- AKA
- FHS, that cloti bitch
I'd like a fucking screen shot of Tifa's room, please.
You know what, fuck it, her and Cloud share the cot. She sleeps on top of him. Prove I'm wrong
Are we talking Cloud x Tifa here or Cloud x Aerith... because I must have missed ANY of those for Clerith...
Behaviors like: living together, raising a family together, blushing when talking to one another, wearing the pants in a relationship, making time for family days... those things only FRIENDS do. Got it.
Just...stop. You're embarrassing yourself now.
Says the lass that butchered a KH quote to suit the LTD....
Embarrassing may be too kind of a word here.
Uhm...no.
Could you recite some of that 'supporting' evidence again... ? Hand reach scene and spiritsmex? Yeah.
Bwuahahahahahaha. **wipes eyes** Oh...you're serious? Well, they have confirmed Aerith is dead, but feel free to go ahead and ask them about her and Cloud's relationship post stabbity-stab. Let's see that happen.
Yes, you fucking do. You just can't come close to proving it.
Example.
Except in their official story summary...
Can I get a literary example of this, please? I've yet to come across someone 'belonging with someone else' and it not have solid romantic implications. So, if it's no uncommon, surely you can give us some examples.
=|
Bull fucking shit.
If the church was his 'Promised Land' why the fuck was he a miserable bastard while he was there?
But you don't think they're canon... riiiiiiiiiiight.
Fuck you, Tres. It's Vincent x Aerith. Why else would he go to the Forgotten City often if not to be near her? In fact he states: "I come here often." **hurrdurr**
Also, there's an entire city of people that she phones for an orgy, so you know, screw your foursome. It's a collective rain-gasm.
PS. Replying more for my own amusement than anything. I really don't need you playing messenger Q. You want to relay the points, feel free, but honestly it irritates the fuck out of me that you're reduced to someone's messenger girl. She uses you as her default scapegoat "Ask Q if you don't believe me." That just makes you look ridiculous. If she can't be bothered to read the thread, then she can stay out of it. It's no more strenuous on the eyes than email or PMs...which she apparently has no trouble with. (also, ctrl +)
- AKA
- TresDias
The dictionaries I became familiar with the word through used "to be seen faintly/dimly," so it would seem we're not able to agree on that word. I still insist it refers to perception, particularly in the CC Ultimania quote.
It also just flatly doesn't make sense to call Cloud's crush on Tifa from his younger days faint given that he joined SOLDIER to impress her and that the promise he made to her was his guiding light. It's even the last thing he speaks of if he fails during the mission with him in BC.
Que said:
I know, I know. "It doesn't say what feelings." Even though it's right next to a screenshot of Cloud talking about impressing her.
Que said:
Yeah, but somehow or other if she has no interest in him at that time, she still wants him to love her during CoT. Because "feelings can change." Unless they're Cloud's and they involve Tifa. After they changed the first time from wanting her when he was a teenager to not wanting her after he came out of his coma five years later. But after that they definitely can't change!
By the way, Que, feel free to pass this mockery and ridicule of Anastar's crap on to her along with this:
-------------------
Dear Anastar,
Due to your disavowing the consideration of any material that isn't within a Compilation game, movie or novella, I accept your formal concession of defeat in the LTD.
In the event that you again take up your now tattered banner at a future date, so long as you hold to this policy, it is expected that you will no longer refer to interviews (e.g. anything Nomura has said, including notions of Aerith's consciousness living on in Cloud, as well as past claims that he has no idea if Cloud and Tifa were in a romantic relationship between the events of FFVII and AC) or just the parts of Ultimanias that you like to acknowledge (e.g. "love rival" quotes in Tifa's 10th AU profile; that same book whose story summary you said means "jackshit"; and whose story summary for AC/C you readily point to as referring to Aerith's church as Cloud's Promised Land, even though you ignore those parts of the same passage that say Aerith's spirit has returned to the Lifestream flowing around the planet, and those that differentiate between Cloud's friends and the three other people who it identifies as his family).
It is also expected that you will personally deliver your sword. No messengers.
I would also like to say it's been a pleasure. Really would like to.
-Yours,
Tres/Ariadne/Squall/Glenn/teh winnah
-------------------
I'm completely fucking serious. =) Send her that, please. With heart-shaped stickers -- no, make it flower-shaped stickers -- and (pink) glitter all over it.
I'd like a fucking screen shot of Tifa's room, please.
You know what, fuck it, her and Cloud share the cot. She sleeps on top of him. Prove I'm wrong
I want you.
FHS said:
The 10th AU's story summary for AC/C does say it's his Promised Land -- but at the end of the film when it describes him as freed of his burden of guilt and surrounded by his friends and family.
Imagine that.
Don't ask me, how, by the way that one line about the church being his Promised Land somehow qualifies as part of a Compilation game, movie or novella.
FHS said:
You're on to something here.
Fairheartstrife
[no fucks given]
- AKA
- FHS, that cloti bitch
Because I was curious, I had a friend of mine--who yes, is in Japan, and yes is Japanese, and yes, happens to be a Cloti (biased bitch that she is) and I don't usually bug her for this shit, BUUUUT, because I can, I asked and she said that 'hard to perceive' is the best translation. She even went so far to say that 'hard to perceive, doesn't really mean secret either. Just not something easily noticed, which makes sense, because Cloud is a panty-sniffing stalker. You don't broadcast that.
O.o
Clear the thread, peeps. I need to make Tres weep with ecstasy and joy.
I do so hope you're flexible. **rawr**
Splintered
unsavory tart
This is why I'll always advocate playing the game, to avoid situations like this. I don't blame Anastar for doubting optionality because it's still an issue with games today- games still have issues between storytelling, gameplay, and options. And tbh, not all optional outcomes have the same effect- some are done for rewards, some are done for player choice, some are obvious ploys to support replayability, and some are just a product of the time.
I mean, you technically only have to beat FFVI with three members right? Celes, Setzer, and Edgar. But FFVI also has the largest playable team out there, with a bunch of characters that have strong implications for the plot (have yet to actually beat VI, I got somewhere near the part where Kefka destroys the world before I reset the game because I missed a few things). Games like IV, you don't really get to choose your team, but with VI, you can mix and match your team however you want to play. But there are clear indications that some moves are canon.
Then there's options that are meant to be rewards or punishments for minigames. Like, losing the large materia or the destruction of North Corel, even if they in the long run don't impact the plot of FFVII, they still have certain significance in the game, whether to specific characters or the planet. But they are lost to winning or losing minigames and are never mentioned again. (I always felt that North Corel was saved, otherwise Barret would have DEFINITELY mentioned it somewhere).
There are options that are meant to further unlock depth to the story, or just add to it. This would be like Vincent and Yuffie, both are now immortalized in canon despite being purely optional. Most people put Terra and Shadow here. And let's face it, usually it just makes more sense.
There are options that are purely character choice, and this would be at least pre lifestream Cloud's choices with the girls. Who does he talk to first, does he buy the flower, how does he respond to advances by the girls. Some of these have shallow implications, like how you can choose some of Squalls dialogue options (usually between "..." and "whatever (moron).") but he will always be an unlikable douchebag whos character development is hinged on his romance with Rinoa (I'M SORRY TRES).
And then there are some that actually reveals more about a character or situation. Like bringing Vincent to meet Hojo or taking Aerith on the date. This is the first and clearest example that Aerith knows Cloud isn't completely himself. You can argue that the time in the Temple of Ancients she gets an idea but this was because an overt action by Cloud. However, just because you don't take Aerith on a date doesn't mean that she doesn't know what's going on with Cloud, the same way that not taking Vincent doesn't mean that Lucrecia's not Sephiroth's real mother.
Final Fantasy (And Square in general) has got a weird relationship with player choice and storytelling. Some choices are "more" canon than others, most consider C/A a more canon date- especially when compared to Yuffie and Barret), some characters are optional when it doesn't feel like they are- not just Vincent and Yuffie- but you don't have to get Quina either despite the fact s/he is in the ending, and some are inconsequential.
Then some games don't really have options in the grand sense of the word, I can only really speak for the later games but I don't really recall having a whole lot of choice in IV, VIII's are all shallow, X, XII, and XIII definitely don't have them, although X-2 and XIII-2 seem to implement them in a much more poignant sense (X-2 because that's what I heard because the intro scared me off the game and XIII-2 because they've shown player choice options in dialogue).
Looking at broader square titles shows the game/option/canon problem, Chrono series has multiple endings but I think most find that a Chrono clone is canon, as well as the "good" ending in Chono Cross by release Lavos-Schala monster thingy. Parasite Eve has two endings, but puts its foot down on clear canon with the release of PEII.
Even games outside of Square have issues with this. Like... Dragon Age II, sure they make off handed remarks if Anders dies in Awakenings, or you take Leliana to piss on Andraste's ashes, but it just makes more sense that you never did these things. Or hell, you can tell Garrus, "no thanks, I don't want an awesome raptor-galactic police man on my team" but does Garrus-Shepard bro's for life attitude really work if you don't recruit him. And this is despite Bioware's insistence that there is no real canon.
Then there's options that are meant to be rewards or punishments for minigames. Like, losing the large materia or the destruction of North Corel, even if they in the long run don't impact the plot of FFVII, they still have certain significance in the game, whether to specific characters or the planet. But they are lost to winning or losing minigames and are never mentioned again. (I always felt that North Corel was saved, otherwise Barret would have DEFINITELY mentioned it somewhere).
There are options that are meant to further unlock depth to the story, or just add to it. This would be like Vincent and Yuffie, both are now immortalized in canon despite being purely optional. Most people put Terra and Shadow here. And let's face it, usually it just makes more sense.
There are options that are purely character choice, and this would be at least pre lifestream Cloud's choices with the girls. Who does he talk to first, does he buy the flower, how does he respond to advances by the girls. Some of these have shallow implications, like how you can choose some of Squalls dialogue options (usually between "..." and "whatever (moron).") but he will always be an unlikable douchebag whos character development is hinged on his romance with Rinoa (I'M SORRY TRES).
And then there are some that actually reveals more about a character or situation. Like bringing Vincent to meet Hojo or taking Aerith on the date. This is the first and clearest example that Aerith knows Cloud isn't completely himself. You can argue that the time in the Temple of Ancients she gets an idea but this was because an overt action by Cloud. However, just because you don't take Aerith on a date doesn't mean that she doesn't know what's going on with Cloud, the same way that not taking Vincent doesn't mean that Lucrecia's not Sephiroth's real mother.
Final Fantasy (And Square in general) has got a weird relationship with player choice and storytelling. Some choices are "more" canon than others, most consider C/A a more canon date- especially when compared to Yuffie and Barret), some characters are optional when it doesn't feel like they are- not just Vincent and Yuffie- but you don't have to get Quina either despite the fact s/he is in the ending, and some are inconsequential.
Then some games don't really have options in the grand sense of the word, I can only really speak for the later games but I don't really recall having a whole lot of choice in IV, VIII's are all shallow, X, XII, and XIII definitely don't have them, although X-2 and XIII-2 seem to implement them in a much more poignant sense (X-2 because that's what I heard because the intro scared me off the game and XIII-2 because they've shown player choice options in dialogue).
Looking at broader square titles shows the game/option/canon problem, Chrono series has multiple endings but I think most find that a Chrono clone is canon, as well as the "good" ending in Chono Cross by release Lavos-Schala monster thingy. Parasite Eve has two endings, but puts its foot down on clear canon with the release of PEII.
Even games outside of Square have issues with this. Like... Dragon Age II, sure they make off handed remarks if Anders dies in Awakenings, or you take Leliana to piss on Andraste's ashes, but it just makes more sense that you never did these things. Or hell, you can tell Garrus, "no thanks, I don't want an awesome raptor-galactic police man on my team" but does Garrus-Shepard bro's for life attitude really work if you don't recruit him. And this is despite Bioware's insistence that there is no real canon.
So to bring back to the LTD because for we aren't allowed to have off topic conversations even if they are legitly, more awesome than LTD talk:
Yes the highwind scene in game is optional. Hell, I'm more of a fan of player interpretation that most Cloti's.
But optionality and canon have always been contested in games, especially in the history of Square games, and there are plenty of instances where there has been a "real" answer or path.
Your best option is to play the game and try to understand why it was put in place there, what the implications are for the for the character, and what have the creators chosen to do with the scenes afterwards.
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- Status