The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Danseru-kun]

Thanks for that! *archived*

Anyway, they can always say DOESN'T SAY WHAT FEELINGS

 

[Kittie]

Anyway, they can always say DOESN'T SAY WHAT FEELINGS

I agree, Danseru-kun. Complicated feelings that exceed that of childhood friendship generally denote feelings of love. It’s like trying to explain other ways for Nojima’s explanation of Tifa being "very much like any woman who's been left behind by a man.” I think I’ve seen that argument circulating around about Cloud and Tifa, too. :\ Either way, here is an official SE English description of Tifa from Theatrhythm:

“A member of AVALANCHE, an anti-Shinra group that takes extreme measures to defy the company, and the popular proprietress of the bar 7th Heaven. She is a kind and motherly woman, while also being a proficient martial artist. Her lively personality belies an introverted nature and hides her love for her childhood friend Cloud.”

Here’s a link to the other character descriptions, including Cloud and Aerith’s:

http://www.jp.square-enix.com/t_ff_sp/en/characters.html

And I would also like to know Tifa’s lines from Theatrhythm, but at least this description of Tifa safely throws out the whole “Tifa now sees herself as a mother to Cloud. She no longer has romantic feelings for him” argument. I love how this description SE provides for us completely contradicts that statement.

 

[Danseru-kun]

And I would also like to know Tifa’s lines from Theatrhythm, but at least this description of Tifa safely throws out the whole “Tifa now sees herself as a mother to Cloud. She no longer has romantic feelings for him” argument. I love how this description SE provides for us completely contradicts that statement.

You know how they reacted to her theatrhythm profile? They posted it in the Clerith tag and said, "it's funny how Clotis always say there is love between Cloud and Tifa when everything that is always said is Tifa's love for Cloud and not the opposite."

:|

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

In fairness that description is likely circa-FFVII. I think there may be different in-game profiles for the characters, though. I know I've seen a different one for Aerith.

Honestly, I'm more intrigued by the fact that Ramza has been added to the character roster. He really should have been in Dissidia. It's nice to see them finally remember that Tactics exists.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

Agrias please!

Pre/circa/early FFVII I think yeah. Maybe

Here we go!

Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy FFVII

It all started with the Nibelheim Incident. For Cloud, confronting his own past will embroil him in merciless conflict. Finding out who he is, seeing reality from illusion... in the end, it will all be to save the Planet.
Passwords: "Former SOLDIER", "Hardy-Daytona", "Lifestream"

Aerith Gainsborough, Final Fantasy VII

The Promised Land... A fateful encounter sets in motion the pendulum of fate. As Aerith searches for the traces of Zack living on in Cloud, the innocent love in her heart will make her destiny's plaything...
Passwords: "Cetra", "Mother's Materia", "A DA-TE!"

From the wiki! (kudos and such)

**

It's interesting because TR acknowledges Aerith's love for Zack in quite a nice sweet way but also nods to the Cloud/Aerith date which is one scene where people learn Aerith had genuine feelings for Cloud as well

(and my biased multi shipper says the innocent love is for both Zack and Cloud since destiny made a plaything of the poorgirl and her feelings again, just as she thought she might have found a new future with someone. Actually it kind of makes me tear up just thinking about it )

Danseru, thanks for the Tifa info for Theatrhythm

Spoiler

Do you know if buying her unlocks any new lines for Cloud (it would be nice if it did for Aerith too since they are bff and all)? I would love to buy her but it's the 3DS version of the game I have not the fone version

 

[Ryushikaze]

In fairness that description is likely circa-FFVII. I think there may be different in-game profiles for the characters, though. I know I've seen a different one for Aerith.

Honestly, I'm more intrigued by the fact that Ramza has been added to the character roster. He really should have been in Dissidia. It's nice to see them finally remember that Tactics exists.

Ramza had to lay low for awhile, til the heat died down.

But agreed, Ramza in a fighting game!
Also, based on the logic of 'they stand next to each other, they be macking' that we've seen used in the past by certain parties, Ramza's getting himself some Goddess Strange.

You know how they reacted to her theatrhythm profile? They posted it in the Clerith tag and said, "it's funny how Clotis always say there is love between Cloud and Tifa when everything that is always said is Tifa's love for Cloud and not the opposite."

:|

Apart from all those times it's said that their feelings match, of course. And their hearts called out to each other. And she's someone's beloved. And future together. And belong together. Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

They're in flat denial at this point. It's flat earthers INSISTING they'll find the edge of the world if they just keep sailing a little farther.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Danseru, thanks for the Tifa info for Theatrhythm Do you know if buying her unlocks any new lines for Cloud (it would be nice if it did for Aerith too since they are bff and all)? I would love to buy her but it's the 3DS version of the game I have not the fone version

Well it was Kittie who posted it technically but you're welcome. AND ASDFGHJKL new lines for Cloud!? That would be nice I can't wait XD

Please somebody purchase Tifa!

 

[Ryushikaze]

Also, Tres, all the profiles seem to be Circa the beginning of their games. Ramza's merely mentions his heritage and worldview, Serah's describes being branded a L'cie and then captured by them, and nada about 13-2's events, etc, so yes, it's not a comprehensive look at them by any means.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

Here's some current lines in the meantime since there's some quite interesting stuffs in there already as well as the fun and the cute, and everybody always need moar fun and cute


Cloud -

1)I can't remain trapped in an illusion anymore.
2)...To tell the truth, I'm afraid of myself.
3)How...do you put this on?
4)I can't keep...the promise.
5)Give me something hard.
6)Can't you do anything?
7)We've got to let go of Aerith's memory.
8)Come on, let's move!
9)I'm not here for a lecture. Let's hurry.
10)I...I have to settle the score.
11)We can't let it go like this.
12)But I'm right here.
13)Not interested.
14)Ha ha ha...Black Materia.
15)I don't care about Shinra or SOLDIER!


Aerith:
1)A girl...friend?
2)Are you...jealous? Hmm? Hmmm?
3)Walk more nicely like...this. Miss Cloud.
4)How about if I go out with you once?
5)Cloud, why don't you dress up like a girl?
6)Get me out of here. Take me home.
7)The flowers have no trouble blooming here.
8)I grew up in the slums. I'm used to danger.
9)Cloud...I'm searching for you.
10)You're uneasy...But happy?
11)I'll come back when it's all over.
12)The future is not only yours!
13)I want to meet you.
14)I knew that Cloud would come for me.
15)Words...Feelings...So many of them here.

(for reference these are the cute little character blurbs that are used when a character wanders onto the title screen if I remember right)


Aerith gameplay

You ok?
Eeyah!
Behave!
Hello, hello!

Be strong
I'll help out
I'm here!
Come on!

I have a L99 Aerith, L99 Cloud, L99 Sephiroth If I could get Tifa in the 3DS version I'd be able to have a full complete all FFVII characters team for Rhythm Bonus

 

[Kittie]

Thanks for digging up all of those wonderful quotes from Theatrhythm, Maidenofwar. Now, I really want to know what Tifa's lines are. I've checked to see if someone has already posted them online but have sadly come up short in my search. I'd love to get my hands on an iPad, just to play the game and see her lines.

It's interesting because TR acknowledges Aerith's love for Zack in quite a nice sweet way but also nods to the Cloud/Aerith date which is one scene where people learn Aerith had genuine feelings for Cloud as well

(and my biased multi shipper says the innocent love is for both Zack and Cloud since destiny made a plaything of the poorgirl and her feelings again, just as she thought she might have found a new future with someone. Actually it kind of makes me tear up just thinking about it )

Danseru, thanks for the Tifa info for Theatrhythm

Spoiler

Do you know if buying her unlocks any new lines for Cloud (it would be nice if it did for Aerith too since they are bff and all)? I would love to buy her but it's the 3DS version of the game I have not the fone version

And it is rather nice that so many fans can appreciate what's said on the back of Aerith's card, even though I'm afraid that some controversy has already arisen from it.

 

[Sikozu]

Aerith:
2)Are you...jealous? Hmm? Hmmm?

Aerith is so cute. >.< I especially like the "walk more nicely" one.

But this one reminds me of seeing some people use Tifa's jealousy as anti-C/T, pro-C/A evidence. I guess Cloud getting jealous when Aerith talks about Zack means he'll always be a sad no.2 in Aerith's heart?

 

[Strangelove]

I don't think there are any specific lines of dialogue for characters in the iOS version of Theatrhythm. The only time I've seen any kind of dialogue was when you play individual songs, and that is only a seemingly random selections of words by the four characters to make a single line, rather than anything character specific.

 

[Dashell]

You know how they reacted to her theatrhythm profile? They posted it in the Clerith tag and said, "it's funny how Clotis always say there is love between Cloud and Tifa when everything that is always said is Tifa's love for Cloud and not the opposite."

:|

At least they posted it in the Clerith tag

 

[Danseru-kun]

At least they posted it in the Clerith tag

Even though it's not Clerith

 

[supergumbo]

So I was reading the digital 25th anniversary fan-based compilation and I perused through the FFVII love triangle section. According to the article, Nomura stressed it was up to the player's decision when it came to the two ladies but came off as a big Cloud x Tifa shipper, saying he designed Tifa to be the ideal lady for Cloud. On the other hand, he didn't find Aerith's role nor design to be suitable for chocobo head. Apparently, he got a lot of heat and insults for making the joke comment on killing off Aerith to introduce Tifa. Maybe that's why he's been so cryptic when it comes to Cloud and Tifa. Seeing them even holding hands would probably be very offensive to Cloud x Aerith fans, so he'd rather keep his mouth shut. Then again, the ultimanias aren't so cryptic on this, not anymore. What I said probably wasn't new, but I found it very interesting nonetheless.

 

[Kittie]

So I was reading the digital 25th anniversary fan-based compilation and I perused through the FFVII love triangle section. According to the article, Nomura stressed it was up to the player's decision when it came to the two ladies but came off as a big Cloud x Tifa shipper, saying he designed Tifa to be the ideal lady for Cloud. On the other hand, he didn't find Aerith's role nor design to be suitable for chocobo head. Apparently, he got a lot of heat and insults for making the joke comment on killing off Aerith to introduce Tifa. Maybe that's why he's been so cryptic when it comes to Cloud and Tifa. Seeing them even holding hands would probably be very offensive to Cloud x Aerith fans, so he'd rather keep his mouth shut. Then again, the ultimanias aren't so cryptic on this, not anymore. What I said probably wasn't new, but I found it very interesting nonetheless.

I think I've seen that fan compilation. I do remember reading that bit about Tifa being the ideal woman for Cloud. If I can remember correctly, that Nomura quote about it being up to the player on who Cloud chooses was said back in 2005. Unless, of course, he's said that again recently. I haven't heard about it if he has. But, yes, I would definitely go with the new Ultimanias on this one.

 

[Vendel]

If I can remember correctly, that Nomura quote about it being up to the player on who Cloud chooses was said back in 2005. Unless, of course, he's said that again recently. I haven't heard about it if he has. But, yes, I would definitely go with the new Ultimanias on this one.

As far as I know he has never said that who Cloud likes is up to the player. If he did that would be the first thing you see from every clerith from here to eternity.

I have seen a few times them taking a quote and going "this means it's up to the player". But we all know what that is worth.

 

[Kittie]

As far as I know he has never said that who Cloud likes is up to the player. If he did that would be the first thing you see from every clerith from here to eternity.

I have seen a few times them taking a quote and going "this means it's up to the player". But we all know what that is worth.

Ah, okay, my mistake. But I'm quite sure there was a quote about him saying something about people asking him if Cloud ended up with Tifa after the game; I remember it having huge significance. Maybe what I was thinking about was that he didn't know who Cloud ended up with. That might've been what it was. And I've heard it being left up to the player quite a lot from people. When I see the word "interpretation," I can't help but think of the LTD.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

They had already made the decision to have a character die. Originally it was going to be Barret but since something like that had already been done with a character from FFV they decided to change it to having a female lead/heroine/etc die since they thought that would have much more of an emotional impact on players this time at that time. It had nothing to do with adding a new female character in/getting rid of one to add another in or anything like that, if I remember right there's also interviews or such where it says that quote/interview about the phonecall/etc was misleading. Just because he laughs but sometimes people just like to laugh a lot In addition when they just had Aerith they originally had her with features that were later taken and added to Tifa, like childhood friend as well as saving the planet, etc, the early demos of the game feature Cloud, Barret and Aerith so I guess Aerith was originally going to be with Avalance from early as well maybe?

 

[Strangelove]

These quotes end up like Chinese Whispers, which is the problem. It might start out in context with 'Nomura said this in [X] Ultimania' but soon that's shorted to just 'the Ultimania' or 'an Ultimania' and before you know it, you're just at 'Nomura said this' and no one knows the original context or where it's from because it has just been relayed from person to person over sites and forums.

There was a quote in the Kingdom Hearts Ultimania which said that since Cloud is such a popular character with people he didn't want to specify who he was searching for in KH1. But then they later released Final Mix which had two lines of dialogue (one by Aerith and one during the Cloud/Sephiroth battle) where they say that Cloud was looking for Sephiroth. The original quote works with the original versions (even though there wasn't much hint of Sephiroth in the Japanese original) but then they kind of did make it clear who he was looking for.

Bit there are so many interviews it is hard to keep track at times what was said and where.

 

[Vendel]

These quotes end up like Chinese Whispers, which is the problem. It might start out in context with 'Nomura said this in [X] Ultimania' but soon that's shorted to just 'the Ultimania' or 'an Ultimania' and before you know it, you're just at 'Nomura said this' and no one knows the original context or where it's from because it has just been relayed from person to person over sites and forums.

There was a quote in the Kingdom Hearts Ultimania which said that since Cloud is such a popular character with people he didn't want to specify who he was searching for in KH1. But then they later released Final Mix which had two lines of dialogue (one by Aerith and one during the Cloud/Sephiroth battle) where they say that Cloud was looking for Sephiroth. The original quote works with the original versions (even though there wasn't much hint of Sephiroth in the Japanese original) but then they kind of did make it clear who he was looking for.

Bit there are so many interviews it is hard to keep track at times what was said and where.

Wasn't that the quote which was mangled by some fansite and then was picked up by the C/A folk? I seem to remember Q getting a hold of the person who owned the site and they admitted that it was just their paraphrasing a long quote into what they thought it meant.

Or something.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah that happened, it was the quote that Hito's talking about... somehow it got mangled into "Who Cloud loves is up to the player" even though he never said anything of the sort

 

[Ryushikaze]

Even though it's not Clerith

I've said it before, and will probably again, it seems 'Anti-C/T' IS what Clerith is at this point. Or at least the form it takes when trying to 'prove' the pairing, anyways.

They had already made the decision to have a character die. Originally it was going to be Barret but since something like that had already been done with a character from FFV they decided to change it to having a female lead/heroine/etc die since they thought that would have much more of an emotional impact on players this time at that time. It had nothing to do with adding a new female character in/getting rid of one to add another in or anything like that, if I remember right there's also interviews or such where it says that quote/interview about the phonecall/etc was misleading. Just because he laughs but sometimes people just like to laugh a lot In addition when they just had Aerith they originally had her with features that were later taken and added to Tifa, like childhood friend as well as saving the planet, etc, the early demos of the game feature Cloud, Barret and Aerith so I guess Aerith was originally going to be with Avalance from early as well maybe?

Specifically, it was in the same conversation that Aerith was decided to be killed that Tifa's design was added to the roster- as like the fifth character, since Red was the fourth character to be added, if I recall correctly- but the killing had already been decided, and the addition of a new female had also already been decided. It was later planning that took ProtoAerith elements and attached them to who we now know as Tifa, and the Aerith design got the Aerith character attached to it.

 

[supergumbo]

I really want to see the quote where he mentions Tifa to be designed as the ideal girl for Cloud. That sounds pretty big as far as the LTD goes but it's the first time I've heard of this.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, I'd like to see that as well. I've heard the claim but never seen a source.