Pokémon General Thread

[Makoeyes987]

I heard (from a friend while we caught up on E3 stuff) that the lack of a national dex is because the relationship between Nintendo and Gamefreak is deteriorating and given what speculation I've read thus far: jesus christ it's a clusterfuck.

Whoa. What are you referring to? Can you elaborate? I'm really curious about this.

Anyways the lack of a National dex and exclusion of transferring Pokemon to Sword/Shield is one of those massive fail turning points that either solidifies a decline or signals a course correction.

Even with the massive base of Pokemon, I can't imagine this change going over well or being something they can shrug off. How many people have Pokemon in the Home service that are just basically sitting there unable to do anything in the next gen?

Who knows. Maybe Pokemon is immortal and can not fail, only be failed.

 

[ForceStealer]

I would almost be more forgiving given that there are so many now and this game has a unique animations for everyone - but they JUST announced and hyped Pokemon Home. You're gonna make a big deal out of that and THEN say a bunch of pokemon won't transfer? How did marketing not catch how shitty that would look?

 

[looneymoon]

I think Trainer Red might be referring to this Reddit post. I saw this when it was posted as well. There is nothing confirmed - mostly rumours and speculation - but it definitely makes sense given GameFreak's handling of the trademark since B/W.

tl;dr : Nintendo has relied on Pokemon to sell their handhelds, GameFreak has never really needed to grow as a studio due to the hardware limitations the Pokemon games had being relegated to said handhelds. This changes as Pokemon is forced onto 3D, as it now has to sell the capabilities of the 3DS. This gets worse for Sw/Sh on the Switch. GameFreak still is operating more as a small, indie studio, and are growing increasingly more focused on developing non-Pokemon games. Nintendo cannot force them to grow to AAA-level studio. Game Freak is wholly reliant on their piece of the Pokemon pie to be what they are, but feels like they’re being pushed out by Nintendo what with things like Pokemon Go, Pokemon Sleep, etc. Also not to mention the fact that Nintendo has other stuff going on, where if a mainline Pokemon game doesn't come out for a while they'll be fine. Game Freak, not so much.

This is all based on speculation and rumours, but it makes a lot of sense.

Something tells me that Game Freak has gotten reliant on releasing 3-4 of the same game per generation at full price every other year, and profiting off that model. These traditions for the Pokemon series really falls apart with modern day updating/patching systems, and AAA development times which can take up to 5 years+. So now it's like they're keeping Pokemon hostage in the Pokemon Home subscription cloud, in hopes that your favourite will be playable again in the next generation of games.

 

[Tashasaurous]

That's fair, if a current gen of Pokemon don't appeal to you. Since Sword and Shield don't have a national dex, it really doesn't appeal as much to me now...

Yeah and plus I ever liked the designs of the Black and White Pokemon, and some of the Sun and Moon Pokemon are weird looking too. So far there's only a couple in Sword and Shield that I don't like(the Fire Type for example), and while the grass and water type look a bit weird, I think I'd go for the Water Type for starters if I ever play the games.

Possibly, but I kinda doubt it since with SM/USUM they were able program Z moves of every type for every Pokemon. It'd be kind of ridiculous that they would have problems like that in comparison, yeah?
And the issue isn't making new 3D models and animations for the next gen, since Gamefreak has been using the same 3D models they've made since XY for Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee.

True, but maybe it's because both the Mega Evolutions and the Z Moves didn't involve Pokemon actually growing into massive sizes, and Pokemon always filled the battle screens anyway. The main games never went through an entire camera route like in Colosseum, XD and Battle Revolution until XY, Sun and Moon and Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, and even then those were pretty minor.

I can't say, and to be honest, I'm not certain if it's actually true. I mean, there's a lot of speculation, (and a lot of good speculation) but that's all it is. It'd make sense if it was true, but no proof or official statements would make it hard to verify. Or maybe I haven't looked closely enough.

To be honest, if it's because Gamefreak wants to release Sword and Shield on time that they're cutting out the national dex, then I would rather wait another year or so for the national dex. I mean, Nintendo is pushing back the release date of the next Animal Crossing game so that they don't overwork their development team, so why not should Gamefreak do the same? I'd rather have a quality game coming out at a later date than have a terrible game rushed out at the earliest date.

Maybe they don't want to delay the games for even a couple of years and don't want to end up doing like Square Enix's been doing with their games and make fans wait for a long time. Though to be honest, I'm still waiting for the Remakes of Diamond and Pearl and thought they'd be next after Sun and Moon...but nope, ended up with Pikachu/Eevee instead after Sun and Moon/Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon.

Don't get me wrong, Pikachu's still one of my top favorites if not my biggest favorite Pokemon.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I think Trainer Red might be referring to this Reddit post. I saw this when it was posted as well. There is nothing confirmed - mostly rumours and speculation - but it definitely makes sense given GameFreak's handling of the trademark since B/W.

Yup, that's the post. My friend also speculated that Gamefreak isn't interested in making Pokemon games anymore (or is just plained tired of doing it), so the next main Pokemon game might be done by another studio instead.

So now it's like they're keeping Pokemon hostage in the Pokemon Home subscription cloud, in hopes that your favourite will be playable again in the next generation of games.

I guess we can call Pokemon Home Pokemon Alcatraz instead.

I'm laughing, but I'm really just crying. My babies...my babies will never see the light of the next gen console ever again.

True, but maybe it's because both the Mega Evolutions and the Z Moves didn't involve Pokemon actually growing into massive sizes, and Pokemon always filled the battle screens anyway. The main games never went through an entire camera route like in Colosseum, XD and Battle Revolution until XY, Sun and Moon and Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, and even then those were pretty minor.

They still had to make new models for Mega Evolutions though. Programing Pokemon to change size doesn't involve creating new models or animation, so I just can't wrap my head around there being difficulty to enable this for all Pokemon.

Maybe they don't want to delay the games for even a couple of years and don't want to end up doing like Square Enix's been doing with their games and make fans wait for a long time.

To be honest, I would think what happened to VSXIII/XV doesn't really apply to Gamefreak and Pokemon. Different circumstances and all that.


I've been curious about what the VGC side had to say about the exclusion of the national dex and the responses from previous Pokemon champs and prominent trainers had me rolling my eyes. "Change the metagame"? "Enforce/Encourages people to be more creative with their teams by limiting to the Galgar dex" "Dynamax will be more balanced than Mega Evolutions and Z-moves"

"Change the metagame" Technically, each new gen introducing a new mechanic has always changed the metagame, and Dynamax is this gen's new metagame.
"Enforce/Encourages people to be more creative with their teams by limiting to the Galgar dex" You can already do that by not excluding non-Galgar region pokemon by having rules in the VGC that exclude non-Galgar region Pokemon. I mean, for fuck's sake, they did that in VGC'14 and VGC'17 and limited it to the Kalos and and Alolan regions and there was a lot of creative teams that showed up and won.
"Dynamax will be more balanced than Mega Evolutions and Z-moves" I very much doubt this. Given the previous track record, it's obvious that some Dynamax forms will be more broken than others. What is game balance? Gamefreak doesn't know.


.....the more I think about this, the more angry I get. I'm just...gonna go back to breeding pokemon and think about finishing the all my dexes across X, OR and Sun/Ultra Moon and try not to go nuts from chain breeding perfect pokemon.

Edit: also, if anyone wants a Speed Boost Torchic and/or Protean Froakie with decent IVs, let me know, my boxes are flooded with them.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Yup, that's the post. My friend also speculated that Gamefreak isn't interested in making Pokemon games anymore (or is just plained tired of doing it), so the next main Pokemon game might be done by another studio instead.

I was actually thinking that might've been the case too. Maybe Gamefreak just want to start making their own games now without Nintendo telling them to turn those ideas into Pokemon games and this could end up being similar to Tabata leaving Square Enix and his own Studio Program to create games of his own without Square Enix turning them into Final Fantasy titles.

So yeah, maybe the future Pokemon games might be done with another new studio Nintendo could be partnered with.

They still had to make new models for Mega Evolutions though. Programing Pokemon to change size doesn't involve creating new models or animation, so I just can't wrap my head around there being difficulty to enable this for all Pokemon.

To be honest, I would think what happened to VSXIII/XV doesn't really apply to Gamefreak and Pokemon. Different circumstances and all that.

I've been curious about what the VGC side had to say about the exclusion of the national dex and the responses from previous Pokemon champs and prominent trainers had me rolling my eyes. "Change the metagame"? "Enforce/Encourages people to be more creative with their teams by limiting to the Galgar dex" "Dynamax will be more balanced than Mega Evolutions and Z-moves"

"Change the metagame" Technically, each new gen introducing a new mechanic has always changed the metagame, and Dynamax is this gen's new metagame.
"Enforce/Encourages people to be more creative with their teams by limiting to the Galgar dex" You can already do that by not excluding non-Galgar region pokemon by having rules in the VGC that exclude non-Galgar region Pokemon. I mean, for fuck's sake, they did that in VGC'14 and VGC'17 and limited it to the Kalos and and Alolan regions and there was a lot of creative teams that showed up and won.
"Dynamax will be more balanced than Mega Evolutions and Z-moves" I very much doubt this. Given the previous track record, it's obvious that some Dynamax forms will be more broken than others. What is game balance? Gamefreak doesn't know.

.....the more I think about this, the more angry I get. I'm just...gonna go back to breeding pokemon and think about finishing the all my dexes across X, OR and Sun/Ultra Moon and try not to go nuts from chain breeding perfect pokemon.

Edit: also, if anyone wants a Speed Boost Torchic and/or Protean Froakie with decent IVs, let me know, my boxes are flooded with them.

Well, I gotta admit, I'm kind of getting tired of seeing Mewtwo take the spot-light that's been happening lately. I just hope next year we'll finally see something about remakes of Diamond and Pearl because I wanna see Piplup and Chimchar again...Especially Piplup.

 

[HylianMogget]

The lack of a National Dex is really shitty. I don't even transfer Pokemon between games, so I can only imagine how people who've been transferring Pokemon since the GBA games feel, but having some Pokemon not be coded into the game at all is just really unappealing. I was never hardcore into collecting, but it was nice to be able to get the Pokemon you wanted from past gens via online trades. Like, how big can we expect the regional Dex to be? Given past games' regional Dex sizes, then are hundreds of Pokemon just gonna be cut? If it's a question of creating new animations for gen-specific features or something (which, yeah, is likely a lot of work) then I think I'd probably rather have those features be restricted to regional Dex Pokemon only, as unnatural as that may be, rather than being totally unable (even post-game) to obtain certain Pokemon.

It's too bad - the new trailer was more interesting than the first one and the new Pokemon that've been revealed look great, but it's hard to get properly excited about the games after this.

 

[Lulcielid]

The Pokemon Sword and Shield Interview: "We Knew at Some Point We Weren't Going to be Able to Keep Indefinitely Supporting All of the Pokemon"

 

[X-SOLDIER]

X

 

[Kai Schulen]

Galarian Weezing looks ridiculous



and I love it it's a fucking Top Hat Bong

....I'm still really undecided about getting Sword and Shield though.

 

[Tashasaurous]

I'm considering of giving Sword and Shield a chance, but not sure at this point. One of the only few things I find creepy and very weird is Alcremie. I mean, I thought Sandygast and Palossand were creepy enough, but Alcremie takes the cake(...no pun intended).

 

[tidus79]

I liked Pokemon game,my favourites are green,red and stadium.

 

[ForceStealer]

Booted up my HeartGold save last night. I played original Gold back in the day, and though my nostalgia would probably have me choose Gen 1 of Gen 2 if I was just wanting to play something, I think Gen 2 is objectively the best. The only one with 16 badges and going back to a prior area. G/S felt like actual sequels to Red and Blue, rather than just another Pokemon game. With actual (however minor) developments in the world over the 3-year canonical gap. I did everything in Gold back then, beating Red and everything, which I loved as a final boss.

And HeartGold has been a great little remake. But, as an adult with a long backlog, my goodness this game has a ton of content, lol. I'm at 60-some hours, just got my 15th badge and tried for the 16th but was defeated. I opened up a walkthrough just to see what else there was to do, and there is so much...and I need a lot of levels before i could even think about taking on Red, haha.

It also got me thinking about whether I wanted to play any of the ones I skipped over the years. So, as I stated, I played Red and Gold. I think I played a little some Emerald on an emulator, but I didn't properly play another new one until Y, which I enjoyed! It doesn't seem to be super beloved in the Pokemon scene, but I was a fan. And I really appreciate how that came cut down on the grind. The new way Exp. Share worked actually made making a change to your team in the late game actually feasible.

But I know next to nothing about D/P or B/W, and occasionally wonder if I should try one of them.

 

[JechtShotMK9]

Booted up my HeartGold save last night. I played original Gold back in the day, and though my nostalgia would probably have me choose Gen 1 of Gen 2 if I was just wanting to play something, I think Gen 2 is objectively the best. The only one with 16 badges and going back to a prior area. G/S felt like actual sequels to Red and Blue, rather than just another Pokemon game. With actual (however minor) developments in the world over the 3-year canonical gap. I did everything in Gold back then, beating Red and everything, which I loved as a final boss.

And HeartGold has been a great little remake. But, as an adult with a long backlog, my goodness this game has a ton of content, lol. I'm at 60-some hours, just got my 15th badge and tried for the 16th but was defeated. I opened up a walkthrough just to see what else there was to do, and there is so much...and I need a lot of levels before i could even think about taking on Red, haha.

It also got me thinking about whether I wanted to play any of the ones I skipped over the years. So, as I stated, I played Red and Gold. I think I played a little some Emerald on an emulator, but I didn't properly play another new one until Y, which I enjoyed! It doesn't seem to be super beloved in the Pokemon scene, but I was a fan. And I really appreciate how that came cut down on the grind. The new way Exp. Share worked actually made making a change to your team in the late game actually feasible.

But I know next to nothing about D/P or B/W, and occasionally wonder if I should try one of them.

Skip Diamond and Pearl, and just play Platinum. It's got a ton of QoL fixes that make it much better. B/W are okay, same with the sequels.

 

[ForceStealer]

I went ahead and ordered Black. I decided maybe it will be fun to go in blind given it's sorta reboot-ish nature and not knowing any of the pokemon. And used copies of Black are a lot cheaper than White, hopefully that doesn't mean Black is much worse and is just a preference for the legendary on the cover, which I don't care about

 

[tangerine]

This comes out tomorrow~ and I am psyched!

 

[Lulcielid]

 

[Lulcielid]

Not quite the techical showcase it could have been.

 

[looneymoon]

still think this was a completely wasted opportunity, and scummy to shill out an extra $20 to keep your old team hostage behind a subscription wall.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I hate myself for doing this, but I bought Sword anyways.

....I lasted a whole week before I caved, good going me.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Been playing Shield and enjoying it decently. I really miss being able to just feed/pet your Pokémon from Sun & Moon.

General rant about the Pokémon games:

I still loathe the Pokémon catching & training caps based around Gym badges. It's absurd that my Pokémon who spend all their time becoming friends with me bonding with me for hours will just stop listening to me if I don't go through some arbitrary human contest at regular intervals and show them a badge. It's such a lame mechanic to push you through story content at a specific pace. Just let me grind through and play at my own place plz, FFS.

Even if it's just a difficulty setting or something that I can get rid of just... stop putting it in games. It's shitty game design, it makes no damned sense, and everything about it is annoying as hell. Just have the information about the Gym Leaders indicate what level their Pokémon are, since that's all you're doing anyway, and if you're prepared, you just topple them like a house of cards anyway. Who the fuck cares if you grind up to level 90 before hitting the first gym – especially in a game that's just a first person player experience!?



X

 

[Kai Schulen]

To be honest, I thought they did away with that mechanic with SM/USUM, at least when it comes to your own Pokemon. Putting in a level lock on Pokemon you receive in a trade, I can understand, because what's gonna stop you from trading in a team of level 100s, catch a bunch of legendaries, trade out everything, restart your game file and repeating the process until you get everything you want?

Aside from the monotony boring you to death.

 

[Lulcielid]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/open-spoiler-now-that-the-entire-sword-shield-pokédex-leaked-lets-mourn-the-pokémon-that-got-thanos-snapped-by-game-freak-see-staff-post.151080/

Spoiler: Cut Pokemons from S&S

Green = in the game
Black Green = Regional Variant
White = Missing

 

[HylianMogget]

IIRC, no Pokemon game before SwSh has level-gated what Pokemon you can catch based on gym badges, and in the past the obedience thing was only for traded Pokemon, which, as Trainer Red said, is understandable because otherwise you could just obliterate everything with traded Pokemon (which also leveled up faster, I think).

I love Pokemon, but this may be the first gen I skip since Diamond/Pearl/Platinum (and that was because I was in high school and even other nerds judged you for playing Pokemon back then ). I'll at least be waiting until I can get it for something lower than $60. I would've been willing to overlook some shortcomings/cuts, but the combination of everything - cut Dex, no GTS (!), level caps, linearity/no meaty dungeons - really bums me out. It's a shame, I really like pretty much all the new Pokemon designs that I've seen, and, even though the graphics feel a gen or two behind, the art direction itself is good. It just feels like a step back, which is especially disappointing given it's the series's first mainline console game.

I also just can't get over how they're probably gonna limit/stagger what Pokemon are in each gen from now on, forever. I was never even one to try to collect them all or even transfer over Pokemon, but it still sucks. I get that, yes, at some point the roster gets unwieldy, but this really seems to have been a business decision, what with Home and all, rather than a technical limitation. It would've been nice to have had at least one console game with all the Pokemon available.

 

[ForceStealer]

It is bizarre that you can't catch high level stuff, I thought that was the whole point of the whole disobeying-you-until-you-have-a-certain-badge thing.