Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge's Roles in the Remake Thread

[Rydeen]

No one has ever made you be involved in the discussions. You chose to be.

But yet you complained that no one acknowledges your posts on this topic. Also, if it happens outside of this thread, I'm gonna see it. You usually keep it confined but it still leaks out sometimes. I think a lot of us just ignore this thread so that we can reduce the amount of it we have to endure as much as possible. And I think a lot of us simply don't want to hear about Jessie at all anymore, full stop. Sad that it's come to that - I was excited to eventually share my thoughts on her when I played it.

 

[Eerie]

Jairus, the vast majority of us do think they've gotten enough screentime on promotions, we want to see other characters as well!! (such as Rufus for example, or any of the various secondary characters).

You rant about things you don't even know if they are or not in the game, nor even knowing about how everyone will be treated. You just imagine stuff and then it obsess you and you rant based on what you IMAGINE. Seriously this is why I told you to stop doing that and just enjoy the game. I've stopped reading most of your rants because they are always the same too. It's either the trio doesn't get enough screentime (when really you want just more Jessie, I've never seen you hyped about Wedge and Biggs as you are about Jessie, which is fine but just admit it dammit) or Jessie's love is downplayed by SE (when you haven't even seen or played the game, that's the one on your imagination).

You are torn between those two stances, mostly, and to most people... these are not the reason why they're FFVII fans, this is not what interest them the most, at least prior to playing the game. I've already come at you for this kind of behaviour, most of old users here know I'm quite frank (ha, old LTD times), so they know I've been feeling annoyed for some time too, because I usually don't post like this.

You have made the trio, and especially Jessie, the center of your attention in FFVII Remake. While I strictly don't care about that, it's how you're acting in consequence of this taste that you're literally making people want to avoid you, Jessie, Clessie, and even starting to dislike Jessie before even meeting her in game.

I'm a die hard CloTi, but jeez, there are so many things I find fascinating about FFVII Remake, I would feel sorry for myself if that was all I was looking for in that game.

 

[Jairus]

But yet you complained that no one acknowledges your posts on this topic. Also, if it happens outside of this thread, I'm gonna see it. You usually keep it confined but it still leaks out sometimes. I think a lot of us just ignore this thread so that we can reduce the amount of it we have to endure as much as possible. And I think a lot of us simply don't want to hear about Jessie at all anymore, full stop. Sad that it's come to that - I was excited to eventually share my thoughts on her when I played it.

No one's stopping you from sharing your thoughts about her, though. And I'm not trying to make this thread about complaints. Until the posts got moved, I was just trying to have some discussion about her and the rest of the trio in here. That can still be done.

Jairus, the vast majority of us do think they've gotten enough screentime on promotions, we want to see other characters as well!! (such as Rufus for example, or any of the various secondary characters).

Then explain why they've never been promoted individually, only as a group. Never once a post or article or set of tweets highlighting each of them individually. When every other revealed character has had at least that one bio tweet/post only about them and no one else. Why should they be treated any differently?

You rant about things you don't even know if they are or not in the game, nor even knowing about how everyone will be treated. You just imagine stuff and then it obsess you and you rant based on what you IMAGINE. Seriously this is why I told you to stop doing that and just enjoy the game. I've stopped reading most of your rants because they are always the same too. It's either the trio doesn't get enough screentime (when really you want just more Jessie, I've never seen you hyped about Wedge and Biggs as you are about Jessie, which is fine but just admit it dammit) or Jessie's love is downplayed by SE (when you haven't even seen or played the game, that's the one on your imagination).

Maybe I do let my fears about how it'll all play out in the game get to me sometimes. Shouldn't do that, I suppose, but it's hard for me not to worry. Jessie is my favorite of the three, I won't deny that, but I do want Biggs and Wedge to have their moments too and that's why I try to talk as much about the group as a whole as I do just about her.

You are torn between those two stances, mostly, and to most people... these are not the reason why they're FFVII fans, this is not what interest them the most, at least prior to playing the game. I've already come at you for this kind of behaviour, most of old users here know I'm quite frank (ha, old LTD times), so they know I've been feeling annoyed for some time too, because I usually don't post like this.

You have made the trio, and especially Jessie, the center of your attention in FFVII Remake. While I strictly don't care about that, it's how you're acting in consequence of this taste that you're literally making people want to avoid you, Jessie, Clessie, and even starting to dislike Jessie before even meeting her in game.

I'm a die hard CloTi, but jeez, there are so many things I find fascinating about FFVII Remake, I would feel sorry for myself if that was all I was looking for in that game.

They're not all I want out of the remake, I just didn't want to have only 2 chapters or so worth of stuff with them and then never see them again until the pillar. They're alive for a large portion of the game, and I just wanted them to be there all throughout that time, moreso at the beginning of course, but also a couple scenes of them while Cloud's with Aerith trying to get back, or a segment during that time where you control Barret (and/or Tifa before she leaves for Wall Market) and do stuff with them, showing how they found out about the pillar, for example. Or Jessie's reaction to hearing about what happened to Cloud in Reactor 5. Things like that. Things we weren't able to see or do in the OG but knew happened. I hope SE will show us this time instead of just having Tifa tell us after the fact.

I don't want people disliking Jessie because of me, and I'm sorry if I caused any of that. People should be able to separate their interest in a character from someone talking about him or her, though. One doesn't have to be connected to the other.

 

[Eerie]

Then explain why they've never been promoted individually, only as a group. Never once a post or article or set of tweets highlighting each of them individually. When every other revealed character has had at least that one bio tweet/post only about them and no one else. Why should they be treated any differently?

Because in the grand scheme of the remake of FFVII, they are secondary characters. They are very well treated in game, but their importance is lesser compared to other secondary characters you will meet throughout several games. I know it must feel unfair to you because it's the only time that they can get such focus, but it's a narrative truth you can't really go around much when you're promoting an AAA game.

I don't want people disliking Jessie because of me, and I'm sorry if I caused any of that. People should be able to separate their interest in a character from someone talking about him or her, though. One doesn't have to be connected to the other.

Yet I have read people in this very thread telling you to stop because you were making them dislike Jessie and you obviously did not realise that they were telling you the truth. This is why several people, including mods, have asked you to tone it down. You're going to be able to play in a few days, right? We're nearly there, so sit back, enjoy the goods that SE is giving right before the game, and don't worry too much. You are spoiling your last excited days over a release, making yourself feel bad about a game you haven't played, making others feel bad because they do enjoy the goods SE is giving. So breathe, and sit back.

 

[Jairus]

Because in the grand scheme of the remake of FFVII, they are secondary characters. They are very well treated in game, but their importance is lesser compared to other secondary characters you will meet throughout several games. I know it must feel unfair to you because it's the only time that they can get such focus, but it's a narrative truth you can't really go around much when you're promoting an AAA game.

It does feel a bit unfair, admittedly. They could be given a continual presence throughout the series by means of mentions and flashbacks at certain times, though. And SE could've written their backstories in such a way as to give one or two of them connections to other significant NPC characters who will be around after they're gone, which would be another way to keep them involved and present, if only in the background, and make them as important as all the other secondary characters.

Yet I have read people in this very thread telling you to stop because you were making them dislike Jessie and you obviously did not realise that they were telling you the truth. This is why several people, including mods, have asked you to tone it down. You're going to be able to play in a few days, right? We're nearly there, so sit back, enjoy the goods that SE is giving right before the game, and don't worry too much. You are spoiling your last excited days over a release, making yourself feel bad about a game you haven't played, making others feel bad because they do enjoy the goods SE is giving. So breathe, and sit back.

I don't want to feel bad about it. I just tried to apologize for it and you continued to lecture me. What I say or think about her shouldn't affect how much others like or dislike her, though.

 

[Eerie]

It wasn't so much a continuing to lecture you rather than being surprised, because you act as if it's the first time someone mentions that to you, when it's clearly not. Being overwhelmed by information/posts/too much screen time for a character you don't particularly like can make you feel either interested in said character, or dislike him altogether. It's actually a very natural reaction, when you feel that someone is trying way too much to make you like that character, to pull back in reaction.

 

[LNK]

When @Jairus created those Avalanche twitter posts, there were a few of us that thought those were cool. I didn't think he was trying to derail that thread. They fit in with the other ones that were made. To automatically assume he was trying derail it, is a little unfair in my opinion.

 

[Jairus]

@Eerie - Oh, well I knew it had been mentioned before, I just never understood why they couldn't separate the two. But I guess what you said makes sense. I wasn't saying to go overboard with making sure the trio still has a presence in the rest of the series, just to reference and show them when it would naturally make sense to. And as I said, giving one or two of them connections to another significant NPC or NPC's is another way to keep them around, if only in the background. Maybe a few sidequests related to that. But nothing that detracts from the main story.

 

[Teioh]

When @Jairus created those Avalanche twitter posts, there were a few of us that thought those were cool. I didn't think he was trying to derail that thread. They fit in with the other ones that were made. To automatically assume he was trying derail it, is a little unfair in my opinion.

I'm going to leave the thread derailment out of this and just say that Jairus's post didn't belong in the official concept art and twitter thread anyway considering they were fan made tweets. Fan made stuff should be kept out of places like that just in case they're mistakenly taken as official. Based on that alone I would have no issue with a mod moving the post to a more suitable thread.

 

[Jairus]

I'm going to leave the thread derailment out of this and just say that Jairus's post didn't belong in the official concept art and twitter thread anyway considering they were fan made tweets. Fan made stuff should be kept out of places like that just in case they're mistakenly taken as official. Based on that alone I would have no issue with a mod moving the post to a more suitable thread.

Except that the content of those tweets was all official stuff. The point was to show what SE hasn't done as of yet.

 

[Teioh]

It was created, put together and tweeted by you, a fan and not created, put together and tweeted by an official Square Enix/FFVII Remake twitter account. It is not an official tweet from them and therefore does not belong in the official concept art & twitter whatnots thread.

If it was new artwork and new quotes that no one other than yourself knew about and you wanted to share that with the rest of us I would have been okay with that. That would have been great. But it's not new. And not official. In my books that means it doesn't belong in that thread. Elsewhere such as here or even in the general remake confirmed thread or wherever would have been okay imo. But not in the thread of official twitter whatnots where people go to see official tweets from Square Enix.

And also just to point out this bit of what you just said:

The point was to show what SE hasn't done as of yet.

Is what got your post moved. You were warned last Wednesday about your debate over the whole lack of promotional material for Jessie and etc.

You were warned about trying to goad people into responding to you're opinion that there is a lack of promotional material for Jessie and etc.

To then go and post fan-made promotional material that you think SE should be tweeting because you think that there is a lack of promotional material for Jessie and etc. is doing exactly what you have been warned not to do!

That's an attempt at engaging people into discussing what you perceive to be a lack of promotional material for the trio. That's goading people for a response. You even did it in the same thread as the one you were warned in. That's why your post was moved.

 

[LNK]

I'm going to leave the thread derailment out of this and just say that Jairus's post didn't belong in the official concept art and twitter thread anyway considering they were fan made tweets. Fan made stuff should be kept out of places like that just in case they're mistakenly taken as official. Based on that alone I would have no issue with a mod moving the post to a more suitable thread.

OK. That totally makes sense. It wasn't official

 

[Jairus]

The renders and bios came right from the official site, and all of them were created by SE. So technically, it's still official. And I wasn't trying to goad anyone into discussion. Nothing in my post said that or invited a debate. I was just sharing something I had made. Sometimes what's there is all there really is, and no more is intended than that. You're not in my mind, so you can't know my thoughts or why I do things. I don't do that to you, so I just want the same courtesy in return.

 

[Rydeen]

People don’t like it when you constantly try to get out of concrit on technicalities.

We don’t really have drama here on TLS - obviously, the forum also manages to maintain that without silencing people either. Even members who are super easygoing, and Jessie fans, are frustrated with your behavior. All of the major visible drama on the forum for the past 12+ months, has all revolved around you (continuing to rehash this same topic, over and over again) as the epicenter.

Teioh cited clear reasons to support her conclusion, and you responded vaguely. This is a pattern. Your arguments are always limited to “you don’t know that,” “you’re not in my head,” “I just want someone to recognize the possibility” (numerous do - you just want a majority but yet you lie to yourself that you’re all alone).

People’s feelings are their own business to some degree, yes, Jairus. But when 5+ people are extremely frustrated with you on an easygoing forum, you seriously may want to evaluate how you come off to others.

 

[Jairus]

None of which addresses the fact that the material was official. And that you all refuse to acknowledge that. And 12 months? I think it's been more like 9 or 10, ever since the trailers started coming out last year. I never set out to cause anything, but when I'm lectured at like you're doing, I respond. And at times in these debates on certain things, I was alone. Those were more the older incidents, though, and that's not so much the case anymore. And pointing out that someone doesn't know everything isn't vague. It's simply true.

It hasn't been exactly the same topic, either. For a while it was more about Jessie's viability as love interest, but I haven't touched that much lately. It's been more about the trio overall and how much attention they get. That's different than the previous topic. And nothing I said in my last post to Teioh was vague. I addressed her arguments.

Instead of arguing with me here, it might help if you weren't being so confrontational. That might not be your intention, but that's how it comes off and that's how it feels. And that doesn't help me do what you asked me to do. Just think about how you sound to me, please. Do for me what you're asking me to do for others. It shouldn't go only one way.

 

[Knights of the Round]

I never said I demanded to be agreed with. Only that my opinion is as valid as anyone else's and that I just want it to be seen as such. And I'll bend just as soon as others bend on mine in return. It's supposed to go both ways, not just in one direction.

They may have, but until now, not very many said much about it.

If you didn't demand agreement, like you say, then you would be accepting of alternate opinions and not feel you have to argue or berate every one of them in favor of your own.

This is especially relevant in regards to the content creators, who disagree with you that Jessie should be up front and center.

None of which addresses the fact that the material was official. And that you all refuse to acknowledge that. And 12 months? I think it's been more like 9 or 10, ever since the trailers started coming out last year. I never set out to cause anything, but when I'm lectured at like you're doing, I respond. And at times in these debates on certain things, I was alone. Those were more the older incidents, though, and that's not so much the case anymore. And pointing out that someone doesn't know everything isn't vague. It's simply true.

It hasn't been exactly the same topic, either. For a while it was more about Jessie's viability as love interest, but I haven't touched that much lately. It's been more about the trio overall and how much attention they get. That's different than the previous topic. And nothing I said in my last post to Teioh was vague. I addressed her arguments.

Instead of arguing with me here, it might help if you weren't being so confrontational. That might not be your intention, but that's how it comes off and that's how it feels. And that doesn't help me do what you asked me to do. Just think about how you sound to me, please. Do for me what you're asking me to do for others. It shouldn't go only one way.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Godalmighty.

 

[Jairus]

I

If you didn't demand agreement, like you say, then you would be accepting of alternate opinions and not feel you have to argue or berate every one of them in favor of your own.

This is especially relevant in regards to the content creators, who disagree with you that Jessie should be up front and center.
Welcome to my ignore list.

Godalmighty.

So I can never debate anything, then? And it would be easier for me to accept those alternate opinions if others would accept mine as well. It goes both ways.

I never said she had to be the main focus of the game. You're putting words in my mouth.

And posts like this do not help. Please don't make them.

 

[LNK]

@Jairus there's still a few of us that enjoy chatting about the trio with you. I know you want others to be as open as you are about things with them, but that's on them to do it. They've obviously made up their minds. I'm sorry that you feel like you're pushed into a corner. But, I also see where they're coming from.

I still look forward to chatting with ya about the trio after we've played the game.

 

[Rydeen]

And 12 months? I think it's been more like 9 or 10, ever since the trailers started coming out last year.

I cited that time frame because I'm including the amount of time it's been since we've had drama like this. I'm not keeping detailed notes, but it's definitely been well over a year, maybe even 2 or 3.

I was alone.

But now you're not, and you're still acting in a similar vein. I avoided the initial exchanges because I thought "you know, maybe this does have a chance somehow," but the conversation was toxic (yes, I do think people were maybe being a little dismissive at first, but you've continued this for way longer than is healthy for anyone). Now whenever I see posts authored by you in "new posts" I have an instinctive sense of dread that another argument is in progress, about essentially the same thing. Again, this could be about any topic that is continually regurgitated. For me, my annoyance has very little to do with BWJ and everything to do with the fact that this negativity that surrounds you just won't end.

And pointing out that someone doesn't know everything isn't vague. It's simply true.

It is vague. It lacks substance, and it's deflective. I can see how that could have maybe fit into the Twitter thread even though it was not an official tweet, but Teioh made very good points that you addressed very weakly, and you also have a track record of derailing threads, so it makes sense for mods to err on the reactionary side.

Instead of arguing with me here, it might help if you weren't being so confrontational. That might not be your intention, but that's how it comes off and that's how it feels. And that doesn't help me do what you asked me to do. Just think about how you sound to me, please. Do for me what you're asking me to do for others. It shouldn't go only one way.

I'm being confrontational (I view it as that I'm simply being direct) because this has been an unending saga for god knows how long. Most of us are tired of this. Many folks have been very patient thus far, but they don't have infinite patience. Personally, when people (especially if there are numerous) are this blunt with me on an issue, I tend to take it into consideration even though I may initially be resistant. Maybe you're different, but I don't know how to provide you with whatever sugar coating you need to understand what we're saying - that this isn't enjoyable for anyone.

Why are you continuing to post about something that results in nothing productive nor enjoyable for anyone involved, including yourself? What am I supposed to say? What are we supposed to say? What would make you happy? Posting about your favorite characters frequently is fine - but with you, it's almost always negative/a complaint and heavy rather than positive or fun.

So I can never debate anything, then? And it would be easier for me to accept those alternate opinions if others would accept mine as well. It goes both ways.

I never said she had to be the main focus of the game. You're putting words in my mouth.

And posts like this do not help. Please don't make them.

They can't see your response, because you're on their ignore list.

 

[Jairus]

I cited that time frame because I'm including the amount of time it's been since we've had drama like this. I'm not keeping detailed notes, but it's definitely been well over a year, maybe even 2 or 3.

I haven't been here that long, though. Maybe I misunderstood.

But now you're not, and you're still acting in a similar vein. I avoided the initial exchanges because I thought "you know, maybe this does have a chance somehow," but the conversation was toxic (yes, I do think people were maybe being a little dismissive at first, but you've continued this for way longer than is healthy for anyone). Now whenever I see posts authored by you in "new posts" I have an instinctive sense of dread that another argument is in progress, about essentially the same thing. Again, this could be about any topic that is continually regurgitated. For me, my annoyance has very little to do with BWJ and everything to do with the fact that this negativity that surrounds you just won't end.

I'm not trying to cause arguments, and continually coming in here and venting to me about it doesn't help. It just keeps it going. And what makes me respond is as much how I'm responded to as it is what is being said. I'm not trying to be negative or cause that, and I really am sorry that's happened.

It is vague. It lacks substance, and it's deflective. I can see how that could have maybe fit into the Twitter thread even though it was not an official tweet, but Teioh made very good points that you addressed very weakly, and you also have a track record of derailing threads, so it makes sense for mods to err on the reactionary side.

But you don't say why it's vague or lacks substance, or what's vague or deflective about it. Putting down my response doesn't help make me receptive to what you're trying to say, I'm afraid. And only one mod felt it necessary to move my posts. The others who were active at the time never mentioned it aside from Tres, who only did because I made a mistake and thought it was him that moved them. I'm not trying to derail threads, and it would be nice if I were to be asked first for once what my motivation is for making a particular post rather than it being automatically assumed.

I'm being confrontational (I view it as that I'm simply being direct) because this has been an unending saga for god knows how long. Most of us are tired of this. Many folks have been very patient thus far, but they don't have infinite patience. Personally, when people (especially if there are numerous) are this blunt with me on an issue, I tend to take it into consideration even though I may initially be resistant. Maybe you're different, but I don't know how to provide you with whatever sugar coating you need to understand what we're saying - that this isn't enjoyable for anyone.

Maybe I got too invested in it, I don't know. I never meant to be. I wasn't, originally. It just sort of grew over time. I do know that bluntness doesn't work for me, it only makes me more defensive and I don't respond well to it. Empathy and understanding work better, as fancy showed earlier in this very thread.

Why are you continuing to post about something that results in nothing productive nor enjoyable for anyone involved, including yourself? What am I supposed to say? What are we supposed to say? What would make you happy? Posting about your favorite characters frequently is fine - but with you, it's almost always negative/a complaint and heavy rather than positive or fun.

How is wishing they had something they didn't negative or a complaint? And I'm still posting in here because I'm replying to you and others who keep coming in and getting on me about this. If you've noticed, most of my posts about this today have been responses to others posting about it here to me and not anything I initiated on my own. What I'd like is a bit of understanding, as I said above. That doesn't mean you have to agree, but you all could say what you wanted to say in a less argumentative and confrontational way and it would help me be more receptive to it.

They can't see your response, because you're on their ignore list.

But they can be told about it.

 

[Teioh]

I'm not going to respond to your post Jairus with a rebuttal. I will only get victim-playing, gas-lighting, or whatever abusive avoidance tactic you'll use today. You are incapable of showing others the same level of respect that you demand from them all the time. I cannot, will not tolerate such people. You have been blocked/ignored.

If there isn't a malicious intent behind your actions then I really, genuinely hope that you finally learn why your behaviour is unacceptable. I hope that this does not continue and is not repeated for the umpteenth time. That you can learn to love the bits Square Enix have given and that your are satisfied with what you see of Jessie in the remake. I hope that the moderators are not forced to ban you.

And if there is a malicious intent behind your actions I will instead hope that Square Enix never give you anything you desire. That your copy of the remake is forever plagued with bugs and game-breaking glitches and that Jessie is somehow suddenly voiced by Gilbert Gottfried. I hope that you are forever left disgruntled and unsatisfied.

Anyway, don't bother responding. Not that you will listen to that because having the last word is also something you cannot help but do. No one will pass on your message to me. I do not care to hear what you have to say. You are not entitled to have your message heard. It will end up being the same old, same old anyway because you do not learn.

To those who can honestly withstand this circular behaviour, you have my utmost respect. And particular thanks to you Ryvius <3

 

[Jairus]

You don't know what you'll get, and the kind of response you just gave me is exactly the kind of response that gets me to respond in the first place. I've never been trying to cause any trouble and there's never been anything malicious in my motivations. I just don't know how simply responding to someone who's argued with me is considered not showing respect to others. Your recent replies have not shown me any respect, nor have you even tried to respond in a completely different, less confrontational tone and manner. Had you done so, my response would've been different and more receptive.

 

[Knights of the Round]

And if there is a malicious intent behind your actions I will instead hope that Square Enix never give you anything you desire. That your copy of the remake is forever plagued with bugs and game-breaking glitches and that Jessie is somehow suddenly voiced by Gilbert Gottfried.

Oh holy LOLOLOLOL.




That is some funny stuff, Teioh.

 

[Jairus]

Not very constructive or helpful, though. The opposite, in fact, and so it didn't need to be said. Anyway, the whole point of the tweet thing was to call attention to the fact that the members of the trio haven't been given individual biotweets/posts like every other character who's gotten them. Theirs were all lumped together into a single post as if they're not separate characters at all. I just wanted people to acknowledge that this disparity exists.

 

[Saven]

Oh holy LOLOLOLOL.




That is some funny stuff, Teioh.

Whoever it was that got him to re-record a bunch of various characters in media and games needs to do so for Jessie. I can already hear his "YOU KNOW TIFA RIGHT!? IT'S NOT REALLY MY BUSINESS BUT ARE YOU GUYS CLOSE!!!?" in my head.