Eerie
Fire and Blood
Sounds like Mako hit the bulls' eyes the other day when he said that probably, Cloud could have visions of the future because Aerith touched him. I think it was Mako?
[Spoilers] Material Ultimania Plus discussion
- Thread starter Eerie
- Start date
Sounds like Mako hit the bulls' eyes the other day when he said that probably, Cloud could have visions of the future because Aerith touched him. I think it was Mako?
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
It was me and I was just about to post that 
Yeah, it's all coming together now. This is starting to make a strange kind of sense now.
One thing that is apparent is that Aerith carries two minds, or specifically memories. Her current tangible and conscious self's memories, and the shade of her future self that's somehow connected to the present, through Aerith. Memories that shouldn't exist yet.
The Arbiters of Fate are aware of this anomaly and I'm almost certain they are trying to seal up that connection, and that's why Aerith is trying to keep quiet.
Because the more she reveals, the more the Whispers try to delete or steal away that knowledge.
And Cloud's visions of the future all come from Aerith. Aerith's memories are essentially... A wild artefact.
Yeah, it's all coming together now. This is starting to make a strange kind of sense now.
One thing that is apparent is that Aerith carries two minds, or specifically memories. Her current tangible and conscious self's memories, and the shade of her future self that's somehow connected to the present, through Aerith. Memories that shouldn't exist yet.
The Arbiters of Fate are aware of this anomaly and I'm almost certain they are trying to seal up that connection, and that's why Aerith is trying to keep quiet.
Because the more she reveals, the more the Whispers try to delete or steal away that knowledge.
And Cloud's visions of the future all come from Aerith. Aerith's memories are essentially... A wild artefact.
Smoothie King
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Pat
I can't get enough of this shit.
Is there any plan to release the novels in English?
Is there any plan to release the novels in English?
- AKA
- Ody
Not that we know of, but it seems inevitable. The translation of the art book Ultimania wasn't announced until a little while after its Japanese release too.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
That's a helluva impact Zack left on Cloud, lol
There's a reason why this is my favorite resolution scene.
Misterbadguy
Phantom Lord
- AKA
- METEODRIVE
Yeah, I'm way into the idea of Aerith's role being redefined but equally as, if not more, important than it was in the original game. It's clear she's struggling with having knowledge of the original fate of both herself and the planet - her having a dawning realisation of what Sephiroth is attempting over the course of the next game would be a fantastic play, I feel.
I always found that Aerith was already disproportionately important in the original game, I don't want it to feel like the universe revolves around her, which it already did a bit in remake part 1, which is one of my main criticisms of it.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
How is it "disproportionate?"
She is that important. That was the intent of her character of the story. That'd be like saying Cloud has a disproportionate level of influence on the game. It's because Aerith is a main character.
She is that important. That was the intent of her character of the story. That'd be like saying Cloud has a disproportionate level of influence on the game. It's because Aerith is a main character.
How can Cloud be thinking about Zack's smile if he's not supposed to remember Zack? I thought he got a headache and brain frizzle every time anyone mentioned the work "Zack". Is that not the case any more either?
Prism
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- pikpixelart
Aerith really is the backbone of the story. I know that crucial role has been flanderized to become the whole "pink Jesus" thing, but that doesn't change the fact the story basically revolves around her. Even Zack, whose actions lead to Cloud's journey, has deep ties to Aerith. She's arguably more central to the story than even Cloud, lol.
As someone who doesn't think the LTD is actually a thing the whole LTD can burn in a fire for all I care, the concept of the LTD has always been a poison to both the game and the fandom.
- AKA
- The Engineer
Aerith has edged ahead of Cloud for me in Remake. I think she's the main character of the Remake series while Cloud is the pov character. He's a pawn in Aerith and Sephiroth's bigger game. Which ever side gets him wins. Aerith is the one with more agency at the moment than Cloud is too. Cloud has Reunion Instinct and Sephiroth is just stringing him along to get the Black Materia.
It's just getting more and more obvious that Aerith is one who is stetting up all the dominoes in Compilation that need to be pushed. Cloud and Co. are there to be her support and make sure her plans work. They're the muscle to her brain/mystic side.
Defeating Sephiroth in the end doesn't matter if Aerith hadn't already cast Holy. Even in the OG. Cloud's mental battles don't mean much without Aerith setting up a Checkov's Gun to go off once he won his mental battle.
It's just getting more and more obvious that Aerith is one who is stetting up all the dominoes in Compilation that need to be pushed. Cloud and Co. are there to be her support and make sure her plans work. They're the muscle to her brain/mystic side.
Defeating Sephiroth in the end doesn't matter if Aerith hadn't already cast Holy. Even in the OG. Cloud's mental battles don't mean much without Aerith setting up a Checkov's Gun to go off once he won his mental battle.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
There's a conscious and subconscious. That's been the case since the OG.
The "child" Cloud who tries to speak to the conscious false persona Cloud, will to try to remind that Cloud of aspects and inconsistencies around him in order to make him wake up. Saying things like, "this isn't just a reactor" or poking Cloud to ask why if Tifa was the guide to the Nibel Reactor, why they didn't meet and talk to each other afterwards. That's the real Cloud.
The subconscious real Cloud, knows the truth. They're just suppressed. They exist on a subconscious level with the conscious Cloud having no awareness of it.
No, Cloud is the main character, and yes, I ALSO think that Cloud has been made disproportionately important these days. He was just a grunt, Sephiroth didn't even know who he was when they first met, Clouds sense of self-importance being stripped away by the realization that he was just "some guy", and then having to fight together with his friends to accomplish what Zack, the soldier, couldn't do what was made the game so inspiring. Originally, Cloud was obsessed with Sephiroth, and saw some great rivalry there, while Sephiroth barely knew who he was, these days Sephiroth is obsessed with Cloud.
Cloud generally has become the super hero that he is supposed to not be.
And Aerith is just a Cetra, the last Cetra, sure, but there were a bunch of Cetra that got wiped out, they're not mother earth incarnate. In the original, Aerith was just a girl who had to come to terms with being the last Cetra, and what that meant. She was going to talk to the planet to release Holy, yes, so she was important from a objective stance, but from a narrative or symbolic perspective the world did not revolve around her.
Now she comes across as a time travelling savior representative of life, the planet, and goodness in general, with the other party member being there mostly as sidekicks in her glorious quest or something.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
But that's wrong though, lol
They aren't "disproportionately" important if they're written and continually written that way. That's like saying Dragon Ball places disproportionate importance on Goku when for better or worst, they're the center of the story. It's how it works. This is Cloud's story, and nothing here is invalidating the fragility his ego exists in. All he's doing now is living up to the role of an ex-SOLDIER, which he (mistakenly) believes he is. And Sephiroth faked not knowing who Cloud was. He always remembered Cloud and simply feigned that disinterest and lack of recognition to make Cloud's friends question his recollection of Nibelheim. There was never any forgetting on Sephiroth's end.
Aerith isn't "just a Cetra." If you're the last of your kind, you're the last. That's beyond "just" being your kind. Aerith exhibited multiple abilities that uniquely set her apart from being just a normal person. She's not just some girl. She literally can speak to the dead and the planet at large. She moved the Lifestream. She speaks to people in dreams. Aerith helped lead the party while alive, and they keep her inspiration in mind when they fight Sephiroth in the final battle.
And there's nothing saying Aerith's literally time traveling. At least, the Aerith who exists in the present. There's a big difference there. The Aerith who appears in the Chapter 14 resolution is clearly inspired or carrying the memories of the future, which is what that's referring to. The Arbiters of Fate seemingly want to extinguish whatever sort of knowledge or connection she has, which allows whatever precognition or awareness Aerith carries to pass onto others.
That's not Aerith time traveling as an outsider from another era, that's her being a conduit. A receiver. She's either channeling, or receiving information or memories from her own self which allow this to happen. But, Aerith was still born and still exists in the current era. That knowledge isn't complete or all-knowing. Something's just been passed to her. And her Chapter 14 resolution has nothing to do with her being a savior.
EDIT:
And it's like I thought, it's an unconscious recollection of Zack and his personality. His conscious mind is unaware of it, but remember, Cloud's memories haven't been erased. They've been suppressed and buried by his false persona that's currently in control and allowing him to function.
They aren't "disproportionately" important if they're written and continually written that way. That's like saying Dragon Ball places disproportionate importance on Goku when for better or worst, they're the center of the story. It's how it works. This is Cloud's story, and nothing here is invalidating the fragility his ego exists in. All he's doing now is living up to the role of an ex-SOLDIER, which he (mistakenly) believes he is. And Sephiroth faked not knowing who Cloud was. He always remembered Cloud and simply feigned that disinterest and lack of recognition to make Cloud's friends question his recollection of Nibelheim. There was never any forgetting on Sephiroth's end.
Aerith isn't "just a Cetra." If you're the last of your kind, you're the last. That's beyond "just" being your kind. Aerith exhibited multiple abilities that uniquely set her apart from being just a normal person. She's not just some girl. She literally can speak to the dead and the planet at large. She moved the Lifestream. She speaks to people in dreams. Aerith helped lead the party while alive, and they keep her inspiration in mind when they fight Sephiroth in the final battle.
And there's nothing saying Aerith's literally time traveling. At least, the Aerith who exists in the present. There's a big difference there. The Aerith who appears in the Chapter 14 resolution is clearly inspired or carrying the memories of the future, which is what that's referring to. The Arbiters of Fate seemingly want to extinguish whatever sort of knowledge or connection she has, which allows whatever precognition or awareness Aerith carries to pass onto others.
That's not Aerith time traveling as an outsider from another era, that's her being a conduit. A receiver. She's either channeling, or receiving information or memories from her own self which allow this to happen. But, Aerith was still born and still exists in the current era. That knowledge isn't complete or all-knowing. Something's just been passed to her. And her Chapter 14 resolution has nothing to do with her being a savior.
EDIT:
And it's like I thought, it's an unconscious recollection of Zack and his personality. His conscious mind is unaware of it, but remember, Cloud's memories haven't been erased. They've been suppressed and buried by his false persona that's currently in control and allowing him to function.
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Torrie
astray ay-ay-ay
Me as an FF fan is confused just like everyone else; me as a shipper screams and passes out in excitement. I'm really gonna hope though that what Mako says is true and that the way Cloud acts in that scene is dictated by his vague recollection of what a perfect SOLDIER would be rather than him missing one person in particular.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Well, I mean it's in the script breakdown from the Ultimania Audrey translated. That's how they describe it lol
Cloud's unconsciously recollecting that smile belonging to Zack.
Cloud's unconsciously recollecting that smile belonging to Zack.
Then I don't think there's much point in this conversation because that's EXACTLY what I say about dragonball XD
- AKA
- The Engineer
This is the classic set-up for the vast majority of FFVII Time-Travel fics. Someone in the past "wakes up" with memories from the future and has to decide what to do about them. Usually it's Cloud. Sometimes it's multiple people. It is hardly ever Aerith because she was already dead by the time the OG ended. How the memories/consciousness gets sent back almost never has any bearing on how the story functions. Depending on how far the memories/consciousness gets sent back, Zack and a whole lot of other people not dying is very often what the characters *plan* to have happen.
Which is why Remake keeps reminding me of FFVII Fan-Fic... it's checking off some of the most prevelant sub-types of FFVII fan-fic.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Zack winking and giving Cloud a smile would almost make the break in the plot worth it.
EDIT:
I don't quite get what Audrey finds so riddle-like in Toriyama's answer. Cloud's false persona crafted by Jenova cells is actively blocking Cloud's recollection and hearing of things threatening his ego, so he doesn't have his true self come to the surface and remember. It does this by also playing into Cloud's feelings for Aerith. Cloud in his false persona felt jealous when hearing about Aerith having a previous boyfriend before.
EDIT:
I don't quite get what Audrey finds so riddle-like in Toriyama's answer. Cloud's false persona crafted by Jenova cells is actively blocking Cloud's recollection and hearing of things threatening his ego, so he doesn't have his true self come to the surface and remember. It does this by also playing into Cloud's feelings for Aerith. Cloud in his false persona felt jealous when hearing about Aerith having a previous boyfriend before.
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SilverArrow20XX
Pro Adventurer
Looking at the World Preview and Dawn of the Future, we're probably gonna be waiting at least 6 months, and maybe over a year for an official English release of the novel.
Part of me is happy that SE seems to have their own English book publishing division now.
On the other hand, Yen Press, who was pumping out all their older books at a pretty good rate, has stopped and I have little hope we'll ever get the remaining old books now.
Part of me is happy that SE seems to have their own English book publishing division now.
On the other hand, Yen Press, who was pumping out all their older books at a pretty good rate, has stopped and I have little hope we'll ever get the remaining old books now.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Thanks Mako.
I can't seem to find much on Aerith's part of the new novella yet other than apparently it's shorter than Tifa's part, and that someone interrupts her before she's able to refer to Zack.
I can't seem to find much on Aerith's part of the new novella yet other than apparently it's shorter than Tifa's part, and that someone interrupts her before she's able to refer to Zack.
Roundhouse
Pro Adventurer
So how are we all feeling on the alternate timeline vs same timeline theories after the new info?
Eerie
Fire and Blood
From what I gathered it covers her life with Ilfana and then with Elmyra? Not sure though, but she said the story of her first love would be for later on so now I'm wondering if they're planning a zerith book lol.
Edit: OMFG
I was right about those flashforwards OMFG and the whispers do try to take them away from her!!
Edit bis: I wouldn't have guessed that it came from the white materia tho
but it's really interesting~
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