[Spoilers] Material Ultimania Plus discussion

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Hmm. They're around Jessie on the pillar and she doesn't see them, although admittedly they are behind her ("Look behind you!"). But what are they doing there? They're there to ensure she misses? And dies?

However, as I said before, it's unclear that Jessie, Wedge and Biggs do anything that is more important to Destiny than dropping the plate. Maybe R&R don't see the Whispers because there's no danger that they won't drop the plate... But then why are the Whispers even there? How do the Whispers know when any given situation is likely to violate Destiny's Plan - how do they know when and where to show up, and when to leave? Does the Lifestream read minds?

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Yeah but that's the remake's version of events, which evidently aren't going to strictly be in-line with """DESTINY""" so any newfound relevance these characters have there doesn't matter to the whispers and their plot STD.

Oh I know, I was saying that in an "I'm looking forward to the Remake continuity" kind of way.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Whispers caused Jessie's own bomb to magically explode near her and presumably kill her.

Then they're watching to ensure she dies.

The Planet wants them to die. Because they need to follow their destiny. And it's only because the Whispers had their nonexistent hands full doing everything else, that they slipped up and some got to escape their fate.

It's basically Final Destination.

 

[Shademp]

But then why are the Whispers even there? How do the Whispers know when any given situation is likely to violate Destiny's Plan

Since the Whispers can be viewed as entities existing in multiple dimensions of time, though the Whispers are still limited by how many of them are around and present for duty, I'm assuming the Whispers saw a potential future unfolding where the plate didn't drop. Upon seeing the future getting remolded, the Whispers took action in the present and ensured that the plate drop happened.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Never was there a fictional device of which it more needed to be said, "Don't overthink this."
Yet here I go
If the Whispers can exist in multiple dimensions of time, why can't they simultaneously be dealing with everyone at once? They could repeatedly return over and over and over again to different physical locations at the same time coordinates. Even if there was only one Whisper, it could do this - a bit like that scene from X Men Apocalypse where Quicksilver saves everyone. To a bystander moving at normal human speed, it would look as if there were multiple Quicksilvers, possibly one for each person rescued.

 

[Odysseus]

And it's only because the Whispers had their nonexistent hands full doing everything else, that they slipped up and some got to escape their fate.

You could say they're careless whispers.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Whispers are aware of the future, because it's their future.

Because for them, the future has happened and they know it. So their goal, their entire reason to exist, is to ensure that "the future that shaped them" comes to pass.

 

[LNK]

Never was there a fictional device of which it more needed to be said, "Don't overthink this."

This!

To add: I actually liked the Whispers and what their purpose was (could possibly still be). I just don't think too much into it all

 

[Shademp]

If the Whispers can exist in multiple dimensions of time, why can't they simultaneously be dealing with everyone at once?

Maybe you've stumbled on the truth. Maybe each Whisper we see IS the same Whisper, but "copied" over multiple trips in time, constantly hanging out with their past and future selves! And the Arbiter of Fate is just the multi-dimensional form of the one Whisper.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If the Whispers can exist in multiple dimensions of time, why can't they simultaneously be dealing with everyone at once? They could repeatedly return over and over and over again to different physical locations at the same time coordinates. Even if there was only one Whisper, it could do this - a bit like that scene from X Men Apocalypse where Quicksilver saves everyone. To a bystander moving at normal human speed, it would look as if there were multiple Quicksilvers, possibly one for each person rescued.

Because they don't necessarily exist at every point in time in the sense that they can act in the past, present, or future at once. They are limited in manifesting at one point. There's also finite number of Whispers. They're not infinite.

But they can move to all points of space-time. They're connected to all threads of time and space connected to the planet. So they have access to go wherever they need to go to do their job. They're not gods, they're not all powerful and they're not omnipresent. Think of them as t-cells, and the body they move through is the entire timestream of the planet. They just go anywhere they need to, to do their job. They have a function and purpose and they move to where (or when) the infection is to fix it.

 

[Shademp]

And presumably if Aerith and/or Sephiroth are able to cause enough deteriorations to the timeline, at a multi-dimensional rate faster than what the Whispers can repair or by Sephiroth using strong enough magic, then being a time travelling road worker won't be enough to keep the road smooth and clean.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's why I think having multiple futures will eventually be shown as an extremely negative consequence that will have to be rectified otherwise neither timeline will have a future at all.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Finally came in the mail! I'll post anything interesting that I haven't seen other people point out yet.

The watch on President Shinra's left wrist reads "10:08:25." Part 2 release date confirmed.

Edit: I guess I'll just edit this post so I don't clutter up the thread.

-A note from the level design supervisor confirms that the Proud Clad model we see in the background of Yuffie's Episode is actually the prototype from the main game's battle simulator. [I know a lot of people, myself included, thought this might be the Proud Clad model we fight in the OG Midgar return.]

-One of the environment artists confirms what people deduced about the VR dome in Intermission: it's an older form of the technology we see in the main game. The artist compares them to an old landline phone and a smartphone, respectively. [The version numbers we see on bootup also attest to this.]

-A scenario coordinator comments that the scene where the party hitches a ride on the Chocobo truck to Kalm in the epilogue is supposed to be reminiscent of the scene where Cloud and Zack hitch a ride toward Midgar. [I guess this should have been obvious but I didn't pick up on it....]

-The character modeling director says that as many as seven species were considered for the bird we see in the prologue and epilogue; but in the end they went with the one they chose because it resembled the bird perched atop the original Fort Condor. [This is pretty apropos considering that the condor on the fort is associated with death and rebirth through the Phoenix materia, and "restarting" is a heavy theme of Remake.]

 

[Eerie]

-The character modeling director says that as many as seven species were considered for the bird we see in the prologue and epilogue; but in the end they went with the one they chose because it resembled the bird perched atop the original Fort Condor. [This is pretty apropos considering that the condor on the fort is associated with death and rebirth through the Phoenix materia, and "restarting" is a heavy theme of Remake.]

So I was not that far off with my phoenix interpretation

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Some Deepground-related stuff for Mako. First Weiss, then Nero. There isn't really any lore in it. Also correct me if the names are wrong.

Weiss:

レベルデザインスーパーバイザー：大地雅俊
さすが”帝王”、「えっ、追加って、本編に！？」「えっ、セーブデータは引き継ぎができる！？！？」「えっ、パーティは自由に編成できるから誰がいるかわからないけどカットシーンも作る！？！？！？」と、彼には何度も驚かされました。さらに、ホログラムと本体が同時に出てくる不具合などで、開発はロスタイムに突入…。

Level Design Supervisor: Daichi Masatoshi
As you’d expect from the “Emperor,” Weiss surprised us many times: “What? We’re adding him in!? To the main scenario!?”; “Huh? It has to integrate with players’ previous save data!?!?”; “What? We need to make these cutscenes even though we don’t know who will be in them because the player can freely compose their party!?!?!?” On top of that, due to obstacles like Weiss’s hologram appearing at the same time as his actual body, development spilled over into stoppage time.

ボスバトルデザイナー：岡田祐介
「DC -FFVII-」でヴァイスの部下だったアスールやロッソの武器に持ちかえることで、合計3つのモードを使いこなします。制作する物量が多くて苦労しましたが、どのモードも個性があり、裏ボスにふさわしい難易度になりました。倒すのは難しいですが、ぜひチャレンジしてください。

Boss Battle Designer: Okada Yuusuke
[Weiss] has mastery over three different battle modes, which he can use by swapping to the weapons of Azul and Rosso, his subordinates from Dirge of Cerberus FFVII. It was challenging to produce so much material, but the result is that each of these phases has its own unique flavor, and there's a level of difficulty befitting a secret boss. Beating him will of course be tough, but I urge everyone to give it a try.

シニアアシスタントプロデューサー：渡遷勇磨
ディープグラウンドを統べる者なので強いのは承知していましたが、PV（プロモーション映像）撮影の難易度も群を抜いて高かったです。さすが”帝王”。

Senior Assistant Producer: Watanabe Yuuma
As the controller of Deepground, I was aware that [Weiss] was strong; but shooting his promotional video proved even more challenging than the rest. I guess that’s why he’s called the “Emperor.”

Nero:

リードVFXアーティスト：吉田光陽
「DC -FFVII-」から登場したキャラクターで、相手を取りこんでしまう強烈な闇の力をあやつります。当時よりもゲームハードの性能が進化して映像の表現力カが格段に上がったことで、よりまがまがしくなった闇のエフェクトにも注目してください。

Lead VFX Artist: Yoshida Kouyou
A character who debuted in Dirge of Cerberus FFVII, [Nero] wields power over an overwhelming darkness with which he captures his opponents. Since that time, the capabilities of gaming hardware have evolved, and the quality with which we can render scenes has increased dramatically. Please take a look at how much more sinister these “darkness” special effects appear today.

リードバトルデザイナー：坂根康介
こういう振り切ったキャラクターは、特徴づけがしやすくて好きですね（笑）。背中から生えている機械式の翼は特殊な構造をしていて、アクションごとに「こんな形にできる？」とデザイナーに相談しました。多くの工夫がこめられた翼の動きも見ていただけるとうれしいです。

Lead Battle Designer: Sakane Kousuke
I like this type of character because of how easy it is to portray them [laughs]. The mechanical wings that extend from [Nero's] back have a unique sort of structure, and for each movement I consulted with the designer, asking, “Is this shape right?” My hope is that players will be able to see the ingenuity that went into the movements of these wings.

 

[Odysseus]

I had assumed the difference with Nero's Darkness had more to do with technology and presentation than any sort of plot details, so that's good to know. It's funny that even the staff was baffled by the inclusion of these characters.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

I had assumed the difference with Nero's Darkness had more to do with technology and presentation than any sort of plot details, so that's good to know. It's funny that even the staff was baffled by the inclusion of these characters.

It's funny, I hadn't thought about how the Weiss cutscene has to be party member–agnostic. Otherwise there probably would have been some back and forth between him and Cloud.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Sorry for double post. Here's another one I'll edit with little notes.

-A character artist very explicitly confirms everyone's deduction the the Diabolic Creation, or Heretic Rayleigh, is indeed the scientist Rayleigh after being turned into an enemy [monster]. Unless there are two Doctor Rayleighs, I think it's safe to say this is the one from BC.

-The reverse side of the terrier Stamp's Champs bag has been shown, and it clearly says "Stamp" on the back. [This might seem really obvious and not worth mentioning, but it does disprove a theory that was circulating on some Japanese boards that, because we can't fully make out the text on the terrier version of the bag, it might be "Stomp's Champs" or "Stump's Champs" or some other knockoff of the real brand. The point was that this would circumvent the alternate timeline evidence and give more leg room for crazy theories like the "Zack is Roche in disguise" theory.]

-In the Chapter 13 cutscene where Cloud envisions Sephiroth telling him "Loss makes you strong," the script calls attention to how this Sephiroth is different from the one Cloud used to know, again using the phrase "transcendent" (超越的) to describe the aura he gives off.

 

[Torrie]

A character artist very explicitly confirms everyone's deduction the the Diabolic Creation, or Heretic Rayleigh, is indeed the scientist Rayleigh after being turned into an enemy [monster]. Unless there are two Doctor Rayleighs, I think it's safe to say this is the one from BC.

I have come across this speculation on Twitter, too. That person is using machine translation, so the result may look awkward, and I was hesitant to post it here. But it's so satisfying to see that all these bits and pieces of lore from BC are really taking shape in Intermission.

Spoiler: Twitter link to the post

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418553982591643650

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Regarding who can see the Whispers: perhaps one has to come in contact with both the Whispers and someone who can already see them to gain the ability? Maybe the contact even has to be simultaneous?

One of those could explain why Yuffie, Reno, and Rude can't see them yet ... Though option 2 would still leave us to ponder when precisely Jessie, Wedge, or Rufus would have come into simultaneous contact with Cloud and a Whisper.

Personally, whatever the explanation is, I feel there needs to be one, as I find it utterly implausible that all three (Yuffie, Reno, and Rude) aren't considered to be in a significant enough position to influence the future. Yuffie's a main cast member for goodness' sake, and the Turks literally prevent Sephiroth's early resurrection in "The Kids Are Alright" -- to say nothing of their contributions in AC!

Since the Whispers can be viewed as entities existing in multiple dimensions of time, though the Whispers are still limited by how many of them are around and present for duty, I'm assuming the Whispers saw a potential future unfolding where the plate didn't drop. Upon seeing the future getting remolded, the Whispers took action in the present and ensured that the plate drop happened.

This makes me think of what we saw happen in the Singularity, where the Whispers made a copy of Midgar, and it was then that copy which was destroyed amidst imagery of "Aerith's world of the Lifestream" and then "Sephiroth's world of Meteor."

Perhaps the Singularity is, for the Whispers, like a test website where they take a "copy" of the real-world, dump the "data" into a test space, then run simulations to determine their next moves.

Never was there a fictional device of which it more needed to be said, "Don't overthink this."
Yet here I go
If the Whispers can exist in multiple dimensions of time, why can't they simultaneously be dealing with everyone at once?

Given that they run reconnaissance and have to consider steps, they're not omniscient. In-the-know, definitely, but not all-knowing.

They could repeatedly return over and over and over again to different physical locations at the same time coordinates. Even if there was only one Whisper, it could do this - a bit like that scene from X Men Apocalypse where Quicksilver saves everyone. To a bystander moving at normal human speed, it would look as if there were multiple Quicksilvers, possibly one for each person rescued.

I think, as Mako suggested, they have access to all of time, but once they have selected a particular instant as their entry point and played out an event, they're either locked out of that moment or can't trod back over their own tracks without interfering with their personal timeline. A la "Doctor Who."

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

I wanted to make a separate post for this because it seems significant. Just adding more context to Audrey's translation, which wasn't inaccurate or wrong or anything, but could have been even clearer in my opinion.

Q: この場面に登場したセフィロスと、CHAPTER 18の世界の先端に現れたセフィロスは、「星の消滅を避ける」という同じ目的を持っているように見えますが、両者には関連があるのでしょうか？

[鳥山の]A: 各所で登場するセフィロスは、クラウドだけが見ている幻覚だったり、セフィロス自身が作り出している幻影だったり、黒マントの男が擬態している姿だったり、セフィロス本人だったり、さまざまな様相があります。それらのすべてには、セフィロスの超越的な意志や意識が働いているので、同じ目的で語りかけてきますし、クラウドの心をもてあそぶような態度で接してきます。

Q: The Sephiroth who appears in this [Chapter 2 burning streets] scene and the Sephiroth who appears at the Edge of Creation in Chapter 18 seem to share a similar goal of ensuring the planet doesn’t perish. Are the two related?

[Toriyama’s] A: The Sephiroths who appear at various points throughout the game share a number of guises, whether they be hallucinations only Cloud sees; apparitions conjured up by Sephiroth; figures fashioned by the mimicry of black-robed men; or Sephiroth himself. Because all of these beings are under the direction of Sephiroth’s transcendent will and consciousness, they come to speak with the same purpose and play with Cloud’s emotions in the same toying manner.

___

Again, mostly a rehash of Audrey's translation, but for me it left no ambiguity as to whether there are multiple Sephiroths coinhabiting the Remake timeline. It seems like it's just one big bad guy.

Edit: I can't for the life of me find Audrey's translation of the second Q&A so I'll just post it here as a resource.

Q: セフィロスの「我々の大切な思い出だからな。」という発言は、『FFVII AC 』でのクラウドの「思い出の中でじっとしていてくれ。」というセリフを連想させますが、どのような意図で発せられたのでしょうか？

[鳥山の]A: セフィロスは肉体的にはすでに死んでいる存在で、クラウドの手により命を絶たれたことですら「クラウドとの思い出」のひとつです。セフィロスにとって数少ない理解者あるいは戦友や宿敵とも言えるクラウドとは、強いつながりを保ちたいと考えているので、そんな想いをこめて「思い出」という言葉を使っています。

Q: Sephiroth’s line [during the Chapter 2 hallucination], “It’s one of our precious memories,” is reminiscent of Cloud’s line from FFVII AC: “Stay in my memories.” What was the intention behind having him say this?

[Toriyama’s] A: Sephiroth has already physically died once before, yet he considers this incident when Cloud took his life to be one of their defining memories together. Cloud is one of the few people who understands Sephiroth, and therefore has the potential to become either a close comrade or a dangerous enemy. I wanted to establish a strong connection between the two, and chose to use the word “memory” with that goal in mind.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think, as Mako suggested, they have access to all of time, but once they have selected a particular instant as their entry point and played out an event, they're either locked out of that moment or can't trod back over their own tracks without interfering with their personal timeline. A la "Doctor Who."

So they have to get it right first time. They can't return and try again.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth’s transcendental will and consciousness

Seriously this definitely helps clarify it, or rather solidify that there's a transcendence here that goes beyond time and space. Sephiroth's been leveling up!

 

[Shademp]

Thank you so much @Ultimasamune for posting translations complete with transcriptions of the Japanese text!