Cookie Monster
NOM NOM NOM
That isn't all that better, dude. :/
New forum for member feedback
- Thread starter Ⓐaron
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That isn't all that better, dude. :/
Cookie Monster
NOM NOM NOM
Most of the discussion occurs where the reports are made. Up until now, 99% of the member base has submitted those reports expecting them to remain private. It would be wrong for us to just open the gates like that. However, what you're looking for is exactly what we're to accomplish with the new section. The more that section gets used the less we have to use the staff section.
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
Cookie Monster
NOM NOM NOM
It's really not going to be like that. AT ALL.
Also, you other punk ass motherfucking staff members need to get in here. FFS, we're finally having the discussion everyone has wanted, and none of you bitches are on.
Also, you other punk ass motherfucking staff members need to get in here. FFS, we're finally having the discussion everyone has wanted, and none of you bitches are on.
Cookie Monster
NOM NOM NOM
Btw, if we're being more open here. We were discussing the possibility of adding another staff member. Some were in favor of it, others weren't. We've been down two people since Dacon and MOG left, and several staff members have irl shit to deal with at the moment. Three members were mentioned as possible candidates. I'd like to hear any suggestions from you guys as well. I also suggested we have a poll this time around, we'll see how that goes.
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Sounds like a good idea to me. I fail to see any major downsides.
Tifabelle
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Tifabelle, Nathan Drake, Locke Cole, Kain Highwind, Yamcha, Arya Stark
Joker
We have come to terms
- AKA
- Godot
GLD, Brooke, and maybe uh...Quexinos?
Geostigma
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- gabe
Ghost X.
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
Was surprised enough to forget, I would gladly second the nominations for Brooke, Octo, Kat and Q.
Max Payne
Banned
- AKA
- Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Hisako
消えないひさ&#
- AKA
- Satsu, BRIAN BLESSED, MIGHTY AND WISE Junpei Iori: Ace Detective, Maccaffrickstonson von Lichtenstafford Frabenschnaben, Polite Krogan, Robert Baratheon
I 
the notion that we get a new staff member, because it's fairly clear that there are regular members now think it's a case of "members-vs-mods". At the very least, a new staff might dispel any notion that the moderators are a bunch of faceless men huddling behind closed doors.
ed: We've got a huge collection of honest motherfuckers, but my vote goes towards Kat and GLD :3
and if you ask me Fangu should be made part of Site Staff because of the bajillion things she's done for us. unless it's already happened.
^ This
Unless sure, 100% transparency so that everyone knows who reported what and everything else. Transparency is great, but I think what we need a lot more is feedback and the explanation behind the decision-making processes. Even if the staff section was open for public viewing, regular members who disagree with the decisions would end up posting their grief elsewhere, underhanded reference in the General Discussion section or otherwise (read:
). I think we'd need a public outlet anyway, a private two-way street for each member.
Most of the significant things that have happened in the past have become a public issue anyway, but we could streamline it into a private discussion between the involved parties and the mods before taking it out for public opinion if need be. That's what I kind of see this as; it's not some nefarious scheme to harass members in private, and if it does happen to members there's no reason for them to keep it to themselves.
Why did you have to have such an extreme knee-jerk reaction to this? I know the shit some mods have done lately hasn't inspired much confidence at all, but immediately jumping to the conclusion that the staff is going to abuse this new system isn't helping things.
We can be jaded and cynical about this, but TLS is not Square Enix. The Compilation can fuck us in the ass, but as a community we can at least have a little faith in ourselves.
the notion that we get a new staff member, because it's fairly clear that there are regular members now think it's a case of "members-vs-mods". At the very least, a new staff might dispel any notion that the moderators are a bunch of faceless men huddling behind closed doors.ed: We've got a huge collection of honest motherfuckers, but my vote goes towards Kat and GLD :3
and if you ask me Fangu should be made part of Site Staff because of the bajillion things she's done for us. unless it's already happened.
^ This
Unless sure, 100% transparency so that everyone knows who reported what and everything else. Transparency is great, but I think what we need a lot more is feedback and the explanation behind the decision-making processes. Even if the staff section was open for public viewing, regular members who disagree with the decisions would end up posting their grief elsewhere, underhanded reference in the General Discussion section or otherwise (read:
). I think we'd need a public outlet anyway, a private two-way street for each member.Most of the significant things that have happened in the past have become a public issue anyway, but we could streamline it into a private discussion between the involved parties and the mods before taking it out for public opinion if need be. That's what I kind of see this as; it's not some nefarious scheme to harass members in private, and if it does happen to members there's no reason for them to keep it to themselves.
Why did you have to have such an extreme knee-jerk reaction to this? I know the shit some mods have done lately hasn't inspired much confidence at all, but immediately jumping to the conclusion that the staff is going to abuse this new system isn't helping things.
We can be jaded and cynical about this, but TLS is not Square Enix. The Compilation can fuck us in the ass, but as a community we can at least have a little faith in ourselves.
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Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
Well said science bro. Well said indeed.
Celes Chere
Banned
- AKA
- Noctis
I VOTE FOR BROOKE and Tony :'3
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
I'm one of the biggest guys on transparency, but I'm not sure if 100% transparency is a good idea. Keep in mind that not everyone who views/vists here are devoted do gooder longtime members such as yourselves. There were a ton of situations in the past that required 'patient privacy' and a subtle hand that wouldn't be possible if every dickwad was able to see it, for example, the guy back in the day who kept posting private pictures of another member.
Also, when I was on Staff, I used the staff section to fine tune ideas and projects into a finished form before I went public with them. Like a cloistered artist, I hate the idea of letting anyone in on an idea of mine that isn't perfect.
Pretty much any organization with people in charge has some hidden section where conflicts can be handled privately and the gears of the machine can be oiled. While I'm big on transparency, the idea that any secrecy of any kind is The Man trying to get you is a little paranoid!
Also, when I was on Staff, I used the staff section to fine tune ideas and projects into a finished form before I went public with them. Like a cloistered artist, I hate the idea of letting anyone in on an idea of mine that isn't perfect.
Pretty much any organization with people in charge has some hidden section where conflicts can be handled privately and the gears of the machine can be oiled. While I'm big on transparency, the idea that any secrecy of any kind is The Man trying to get you is a little paranoid!
Max Payne
Banned
- AKA
- Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I agree but that isn't the prevailing sentiment here.
Hisako
消えないひさ&#
- AKA
- Satsu, BRIAN BLESSED, MIGHTY AND WISE Junpei Iori: Ace Detective, Maccaffrickstonson von Lichtenstafford Frabenschnaben, Polite Krogan, Robert Baratheon
But yes gosh uh I think Fangu should be made Site Staff at some point. She already fills up part of the big gaping frontpage maintenance hole that Pixel left behind.
At least I think that's what she's doing over there.
Also, I'd nominate Octo for a position as a mod but I think she's already got enough on her hands without having to take care of us big babies as well. Moms are tough, though!
Splintered
unsavory tart
I know this has already been shot down, but I'm going to just throw something out there:
That said, if members are getting the opportunity to have their say:
1. Dacon. Wasn't he mod before? Why isn't he anymore? He strikes me as the kind of person who would be willing to tell it how it is, to be fair and willing to do the hard things, is personable enough on the forum to do these things without causing bad blood, open enough for a member to contact, and not the type to be overly secretive or give the vibe that he's in it for the mods rather than the members. He's a constant forum presence, and for the better imo.
2. Brooke: because everyone loves her and sometimes you need a person like that, someone who is great at mediating between two groups of people and is always looking to make other people's experience on the forum better. Didn't she win "most helpful member" award? That's awesome, especially for newer or shy members who might feel intimidated by the staff.
Also she did the "TLS Secret Santa" and yeah, it isn't the most difficult or complex contest, but it's tedious and time consuming and I know a lot of members who wouldn't be arsed or just mysteriously "disappear" during that time. If people are willing to take the initiative to start these projects for no reward- just to make the forum a more fun experience for everyone, yeah, they would make a great mod.
Anyone else I would mention would just be bias because they are really charismatic, personable, and active people (ayla/Serah Farron, looneymoon, Tifabelle, Celes, Masamune, Zee, Quex) Honestly I see these secrets and drama about how tls is going downhill I don't see it because I genuinely enjoy my time here, there's just a lot of fantastic people here. edit: Oh yeah Fangu too, look at how hard she fucking works man.
there was something like this on an old forum I use to mod at and it worked out pretty well, but to limited success. Or it wasn't as bad as people make it out to be.
It was an offshoot of a different form, basically complaints and suggestions, things that aren't generally discussed in public, or could be just asked to a mod in a pm but they wanted more direct access.
Things like, hey why was this person banned, why did you close my thread, X member has been harassing me, I don't like how Y admin acts. Some of this stuff should probably be more transparent, but some of it actually is better without a billion people jumping in (and we were a pretty busy forum so it helped with not answering every personal question).
It's especially good for the things that you want to discuss outside of public eye (like why X member should be banned/reprimanded), that you want continual feedback from one party- and it allows more than one mod to be in the loop. It's really a pain in the ass to discuss things like this in the PM's because you are continually posting and reposting.
It's also much easier if your particular section mod tends to be inactive or not regularly reply to reports and pm's.
The idea of course, it's not suppose to replace all discussion, just give a section for certain types of topics that fall in an uncomfortable medium.
But like I said, there's a lot of pitfalls. Certain mods always frequent certain places, a lot of times the mods you want just won't look at your thread, or if they do they don't know what to say so it can easily go ignored.
That and if the mod team doesn't like your idea or you are trying to criticize a mod, it's easy to just overwhelm the discussion. I don't think anybody tries to do it with that intent but that's what happened. I sometimes see a discussion like this working out for the better, just because communication usually helps and they iron out issues.
But it's so easy to let it just fade to oblivion.
MY TWO CENTS
It was an offshoot of a different form, basically complaints and suggestions, things that aren't generally discussed in public, or could be just asked to a mod in a pm but they wanted more direct access.
Things like, hey why was this person banned, why did you close my thread, X member has been harassing me, I don't like how Y admin acts. Some of this stuff should probably be more transparent, but some of it actually is better without a billion people jumping in (and we were a pretty busy forum so it helped with not answering every personal question).
It's especially good for the things that you want to discuss outside of public eye (like why X member should be banned/reprimanded), that you want continual feedback from one party- and it allows more than one mod to be in the loop. It's really a pain in the ass to discuss things like this in the PM's because you are continually posting and reposting.
It's also much easier if your particular section mod tends to be inactive or not regularly reply to reports and pm's.
The idea of course, it's not suppose to replace all discussion, just give a section for certain types of topics that fall in an uncomfortable medium.
But like I said, there's a lot of pitfalls. Certain mods always frequent certain places, a lot of times the mods you want just won't look at your thread, or if they do they don't know what to say so it can easily go ignored.
That and if the mod team doesn't like your idea or you are trying to criticize a mod, it's easy to just overwhelm the discussion. I don't think anybody tries to do it with that intent but that's what happened. I sometimes see a discussion like this working out for the better, just because communication usually helps and they iron out issues.
But it's so easy to let it just fade to oblivion.
MY TWO CENTS
:'3 Thanks, honestly that makes me happy. I actually don't think I have a chance in hell compared most to the people here, but I'm just going to say just in case that I don't want to be mod. It may sound like it but I just really, really love tl;drs and sticking my nose in people's business. I modded before and I found that I had a terrible time saying no or punishing/banning people that I liked. It was not fun and I avoided it to some unpleasant consequences.
That said, if members are getting the opportunity to have their say:
1. Dacon. Wasn't he mod before? Why isn't he anymore? He strikes me as the kind of person who would be willing to tell it how it is, to be fair and willing to do the hard things, is personable enough on the forum to do these things without causing bad blood, open enough for a member to contact, and not the type to be overly secretive or give the vibe that he's in it for the mods rather than the members. He's a constant forum presence, and for the better imo.
2. Brooke: because everyone loves her and sometimes you need a person like that, someone who is great at mediating between two groups of people and is always looking to make other people's experience on the forum better. Didn't she win "most helpful member" award? That's awesome, especially for newer or shy members who might feel intimidated by the staff.
Also she did the "TLS Secret Santa" and yeah, it isn't the most difficult or complex contest, but it's tedious and time consuming and I know a lot of members who wouldn't be arsed or just mysteriously "disappear" during that time. If people are willing to take the initiative to start these projects for no reward- just to make the forum a more fun experience for everyone, yeah, they would make a great mod.
Anyone else I would mention would just be bias because they are really charismatic, personable, and active people (ayla/Serah Farron, looneymoon, Tifabelle, Celes, Masamune, Zee, Quex) Honestly I see these secrets and drama about how tls is going downhill I don't see it because I genuinely enjoy my time here, there's just a lot of fantastic people here. edit: Oh yeah Fangu too, look at how hard she fucking works man.
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Fangu
Great Old One
But yes gosh uh I think Fangu should be made Site Staff at some point. She already fills up part of the big gaping frontpage maintenance hole that Pixel left behind.
At least I think that's what she's doing over there.
Sats you crack me up. What I'm doing is programming additional stuff to WordPress, basically. Flint will handle some of the new graphics. That's the current status. (I really should update that thread...)But yes, I am already in the Staff section. The "Site Staff" title was changed to "Site Contributor" to better represent that there are members here who contributes to the site in total and has privileges, but however isn't a part of the mod team. Which means that anyone with this title plus a few other titles, can see the Staff subforum, including the reports and infractions.
I want to bring this discussion to public, because I have sorta asked about it in the Staff Chat, but I don't think any clear guidelines are made about it. If I'm not supposed to take part in Reports discussions (which I believe only mods should do, since they are, you know, moderators, which by definitions mean they moderate the debate) why should I have to see them? I mean I don't mind them popping up in my 'latest' feed now, but it did bug me to have them sitting there begging for me to click them (all unread threads MUST BE CLICKED AAAHHH) even if I'm not supposed to participate in the report discussion. Yeah that was that announced since we're on the topic of restructuring stuff.
And regarding that - don't worry guys, the Staff subforum is a very dull place. There are occasional random discussions not started by a report, like Road mentioned (larger spambot issues) but also discussions regarding the whole of TLS, as in "the registering email system isn't working", which are Admin topics really. IMO there should still be a subforum for discrete details like that. Why should Yop have to reveal technical (= vulnerable) details about the technicalities of the site/forum to the entire public? And/or why should he have to email everyone related when he has a discussion engine right here to do it? Not all topics in that section is about member conflicts - not at all. And like MOG says, when discussing TLS content, it's good to have a place to discuss stuff that's not even in 'Beta' yet, whether it be an article or a different type of content. The Front Page stuff is right now happening over PM's, Skype, IRC and in documentation now, just to have that mentioned.
I'm all for sharing as much as possible, but you'd still need some sort of section for stuff that just isn't interesting (or safety compromising) to the rest of the forum. (The forum/site is not just 'a space in the Internet', there are random stuff that needs to be handled.) Another thing is that it's easier to lose track of stuff going on if everything has to be done by PM or emails.
Regarding modding - pretty much what Splintered says. It's a job I've done before that I do not want again. I feel like I've done that part before in my life, and I want to focus on the tech side instead.
As for new mods, I'm very much in favor for that. I was in IRC with Yop and Ryu and I suggested Omega and Brooke, but I see GLD came up (which is an excellent and obvious choice) and Kat, and I would second Octo in a heartbeat. Dacon used to be a mod but gave it up, so I'd just presumed you didn't want to be a mod any more (a decision I respect) but if you'd want back in (same for you, MOG) I think that would be excellent and I support it 100%.
IMO it has to be someone who goes along fairly well with everyone, and especially has regular contact with the members of the board who are less positive to the current mod team. I also think it should be a person who generally has respect for most of the member base - even if this person can be fed up with some of the other members (because of old conflicts or deep arguments or w/e) this person still has to like people. This person has to be interested in people, interested in their opinions and yeah, interested in the voices in a conflict - not in a drama lovin' type of attitude, but as in a person who likes people and understand there can be different opinions and sides to a conflict. But this person also has to be able to 'cut through' and take a stand - and also be able to not be afraid to make mistakes; as in not be afraid to moderate their own opinion if new information is given, and also be able to say 'you're right, sorry'.
I think there are some great unsharpened diamonds (don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say they're totally useless or anything) in our member base who would do excellent if they were given some trust.
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