Spam at TLS.

NOTE BY RYU: SINCE YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT SEEING THIS, YOU ARE ALLOWED ONE POST. IF YOU NEED TO ADD MORE TO YOUR POST, EDIT YOUR EXISTING POST. DO NOT MAKE A NEW REPLY.

I'm tired of all the BAWWWing, and bla bla bla and the needless drama & back and forth-ing between the new members, and the old friends, and the staff in regards to the Spam section. Where no one feels like they're being properly heard / listened to, etc. So here are the rules.

• ONE POST PER PERSON.
• Say everything you want to say.
• NO FLAMING / MISCONDUCT.
• ANY posting about wanting a Spam Section, etc. outside of this thread will be warned.

I'll post my view first and foremost, and then I'll respond when everyone's had a chance to say what they want.

---------------------------

I was a minor part of the spam section back at ACF, and I can understand the want for the section that's familiar that will help all the old friends find a place to sit around and chat like old times. That being said, TLS is not ACF2, and things were made specifically NOT to have the same 5-year-old begging drama, and relentless, pointless bullshit that frequented that forum. We have many other concepts, and measures put in place to ensure that the members (pronounced "You folks") can still have an enjoyable time here.

We don't want to re-enforce a lot of the clique-ish behavior that said section generates, while still being able to have a community based on FFVII, with familiar friends, and still focus on a better Community, and better site for everyone.

While I still have no intention of changing this, I want to hear everyone's opinion, and move on past all this crap, so please post, and I'll look them over. This thread will be closed on Friday, and I will make my final reply on the matter.


UPDATE:


@ A, Dacon, Mako, CelesChere, Isabella, Chaos Angel, Gabriel, crackitlackin1, nii-chan, Pixel, Ryushikaze, Leanan Sidhe, Sprite, anigraphuse, 2D, Cookie Monster, Arianna, munatik, M.O.G., SutekiMitsukai, Masamune, manc, CloudSkye, I Am Not Me, Yop, & User Name

Thanks for the opinions & comments so far. It's been very helpful to get everything out in the open. I'm sorry if this feels a little too "one shot" & cold, but I'd prefer this to having to spend time pouring over pages and pages. If anyone at all feels that this should be left open longer, please just PM me, and let me know.



X

I don't see why people need a spam section so badly.






That's all.

Don't think it's necessary, plenty of room on the net for them to spam. They can have all of the same members at those places too.

EDIT:

Maybe there should be an announcement or something to get more of the general memberbase posting.

^This pretty much. I've repeated it so many damn times I cba saying it again.

A said:

I don't see why people need a spam section so badly.






That's all.

Click to expand...

Same here. I already asked why people wanted a spam section so much, and I got a very nice explanation. As nice as it was, I don't see the point. Of course, I don't know how "epic" these spam threads were since I've never participated, but it sounds like a whole bunch of arguing over nothing to me, for something that only like, two people want. I don't see what's wrong with the general discussion/chit-chat thread. I don't see how personal bonds somehow are stronger by a magical spam thread.

I'm against a spam forum. TLS doesn't need the drama.

I see no actual need for it. The forum has been moving along just fine without it. What I would suggest though is one spam thread. It probably won't satisfy people that do want a spam section but I think it's better than nothing. I'm sure that idea has already been suggested at some point though. So I'll leave it to the staff to decide amongst themselves. Not that I have a choice though.

In any case, that's my two cents.

ACF isnt the only forum on the internet with a "spam" section nearly every forum i have ever visited (not including the acf spin offs , but gaming forums and what not) have one to some extent.

I think a big problem with this is that people ascociate the final days of drama on ACF to spam and that its the spammers fault the forum fell through the cracks.
In my opinion thats further from the truth , i like some of you was present in every age of ACF and i whole heartedly believe that if we (the spammers) did not par take in the on goings of ACF's staff and questioned every motive ACF would of died alot sooner then it had. What do you think would have happened if Darkbeat stayed on staff , or felix , or SW , and what not? SW couldnt even properly give members permissions to user groups , i remember the whole team was banned to the SO section once after it was reopened because she forgot to give us access to the rest of the forum.

That said , the only place we can spam is chit chat , thats cool and all but seriously keeping up with it after even taking a lunch break becomes tedious and very difficult.
If i want to talk to some of the members just alittle i have to do it in chit chat and its very strenious , sometimes i just want to make a hey sup thread and see what comes forth.

Pm's , usernotes , visitor messages , they dont do the trick there nice for here and there chitter chatter but its not a viable means to talk to many people at once.
Thats why spam rocks.

That said i understand 100% why spam wont get made , hell i didnt even intend for my thread to turn into a "make spam nao" kind of thread , fuck i was bored and i thought mako said something ridiculous thats it lol.
But dont disregard it because it may make cliques or what ever , sorry to burst your bubble but the cliques have already formed , and your blind if you dont see that yet.

That said if spam doesnt go through , how about a 121 section instead?
You can make it nonpost count but people cant chit chat with each other , it beats visitor messages imo.

Tbh the only reason the thread was made was because any thread on GC that was explicitly serious was getting shut down. The thread wasnt the most important thing ever written but people werent spamming all that much , just because the OP didnt link to some shit news article , or was about the latest tv to buy wasnt basis to shut it down.

Plus it was about tits , come on guys tits.
Its general discussion people not the mako reactor

Really though the aggressive thread closing was getting annoying.
Poast numba2

edit: thanks dac for editing in the post before deleting it , any way i just pm'ed this to mako and i think its relevant so ill copy and pasta it here.

Either way chit chat thread aint doing the trick man , i know you like to post about FF and what not but for members like me who really dont talk about FF much chit chat really isnt all that great especially on a slow day.
I think thats why alot of people liked spam if GC was slow they could go into spam , say something non-sensical and no one would warn them and maybe just maybe people could get to chatting.

If you guys dont want to open one because cliques are gonna form , fine i get ya and i dont blame ya.
But dont shun it just because you think were going to ostrisize any noob who walks into spam unknowingly , thats not going to happen here.
Weve grown up , this place is different were not going flame the newbies.

edit: sorry for the bajillion edits but well things come up when your reading other posts and sometimes they just have to be added.
I know the spam sections not going to be added but please atleast be alittle more lineant about threads in GC , im not saying lets turn it into a psuedo spam so we can vicariously spam through it.
But rather just give us alittle more leway that way we chat without having to tread through pages upon pages of chit chat.
Chit chats great for hey how are yous, but its not a good place for a discussion unless you plan to keep it open on an extra tab and slam ctrl+r repeatedly.

Lol, people post spam in the General Discussion thread anyways, I really don't see the point of having a own section dedicated to spam. And I think people are getting to hyped up on this, "we're not allowing spam," thing. I don't think you can change the minds of the staff when they've repeated themselves that there would be no spam section.

And what Alise said. No need for spam here, the forum is perfectly fine without one. If people really want to spam, making their own forum is perfectly fine too.

I wasn't around on Spam at ACF, so I don't understand why people are getting all this cliquish behavior from. And no point in explaining it, because it's something you probly need to have experienced first hand. I was around for the spam raids of FCF, which imo also seems to be just as an applicable comparison considering a lot of the members there, have migrated here.

I like spam. I liked spam at FCF. Posting spam at FCF ranged from a lot of topics, typical everyday shenanigans "omfg I didn't get my period today" to things that were exciting that you didn't always get a chance to do "ogees I met some enets people today!". Now the former does seem rather pointless, but my point is that spam is an easy way to communicate to a large group of people at the same time, about a common interest.

I myself posted a lot of spam once upon a time, but I usually tried to keep them at least somewhat topical and relatable to other people. I think spam topics like lolcats, demotivators, and daily activities would make for a good productive forum for people to relate and have fun talking with one another. If threads that were pointless one liners like "I had such a shit day omfg my life sucks" popped up, then imo those would be closable threads considering they don't offer much insight to others.

General Chat is all well and good, but a lot of things have been closed recently due to derailment. Which sucks. But the Chit Chat thread, which has been stated many times already, just blows for a spam thread because most computers are slow, and by the time you get a reply in, they're on the next page. Whoopee, I feel so included. =/

That's my 1,374 cents.

Edit: Erm, should a poll be present in this thread? Or too early for that?

I really hate bringing up ACF when discussing this place, but it needs to be done. ACFs spam section was a bit too cliquey, and even though for the most part it was fun and all, it wasnt really inclusive of the whole userbase imo. And it seemed to attract people who wanted to be like the "cool kids". Ive seen perfectly nice people go in there and start posting like a twat to gain popularity.

From my experience, spam sections are either really noobish or really cliquey.

Anyway, i like TLS as it is. There's a nice post-ACF atmosphere, and its nice being able to come here and actually see discussion about FF rather than just being bombarded with crap drama.

I have only ever seen one spam forum that I thought was well handled. And that forum was Stardestroyer.net's testing subforum. It was a ruleless, lawless little forum, but it was mercilessly purged without fail at 6:00AM while the rest of the forum was backed up. And even then, SD.net has a much different board culture than here. I don't mind off topic posting, but I don't think we need a specifically separate subforum for it, since general chat works well enough. If you desperately need a place to post utterly mindless nonsense in, get a chatbox or whiteboard or something of the sort.

ADDENDUM: I HAVE NOW DELETED EVERY ADDITIONAL POST MADE BY FOLKS IN THIS THREAD. IF I SEE FURTHER ADDITIONAL POSTS, I WILL KEEP DELETING THEM. IF I SEE EXCESSIVE POSTS, I WILL WARN FOLKS. YOU GET ONE. YOU CAN EDIT YOUR POSTS, SO IF YOU NEED TO, EDIT IT.

I don't think it's necessary. So, basically, what everyone who says "No" said, I say.

Why was the other thread closed when there was good discussion going on? Brotherhood was developing. Why close good threads?

Anyway. I don't see there being an off-topic forum being made soon. I'd like one though. In order for staff to make an off-topic section even if they wanted one, they'd lose face for going back on their word. I don't see that happening soon.

Wow. I feel like this has moved from a free flowing discussion of slow improvement like what we had in that other thread to a one shot petition for something which we prolly won't get.

Spam. What makes spam so bad? If you don't want to post in an off-topic sub-forum, don't do it. It doesn't hurt having one. To be honest, spam wasn't the problem with ACF. Everyone knows that. It was the admistration and all the warped twisted dramas they had within themselves. Spam only had a couple incidences of outright flaming. Mostly when Omni, rest his soul, was around and he started his 'fly away ye noobie fag' campaine. Mostly though, people were all welcome to post in spam. There wasn't really as big of a problem as everyone says there was. Just about EVERYONE was accepted into the spam environment in ACF. If you feel there were cliques well I'm sorry. Cliques are part of life. But really, there were far less cliques or whatever in that ACF spam section then there are in any job or school around the globe. There wasn't really a problem. Get that myth or rumor out of your systems.

Edit: Directed at Yop's posts: Why were the spammers the only ones usually envolved in calling out the crap the staff did? Could be because the spammers were the only really active members of the site that actually cared how it was run? C'mon man. Only a handful of people in the spam section could really be termed the badguy and all you're doing is taking that name and putting it on everyone else that posted there. That's not right.
End of edit.

An off-topic forum is a great way to release pressures for the day without worrying about having a stupid topic. Its open for all to post, much more effective than P2P communications. Its much more like an open discussion between people where the topic tends to change here and there. Generally, everyone here who is fighting for a spam section, was part of one and knows how good they are. The ones who aren't are basing ideas off of preconcieved notions. Most have never actually been part of an off-topic subsection.

IF one does get opened, I don't see why closing it would be so harmless were it to end up as bad as everyone thinks it will.

Why does this forum need an off-topic subsection? well, let's put it this way. People don't need a million dollars either but they'd be pretty dum to not take it. Spam is that great. yes. Its that great. Post in FF as much as you like and when you want to post something else, go to an off-topic subsection with far more capabilities than a general chat section could bring up.

Why not general chat? general chat forces one to make threads with stupid topics without really being able to express themselves. I have to think up a topic about the weather or something before I can post. What if I just want to chat and mingle with friends I've made here? What if I want to do that without dissecting that free chat forum into a dozen different teams and separating the member base?

I hope you consider a an off-topic forum.

To be honest though. The best thing Yop did besides opening the forum was to let that other thread be open and to let us all chat about it and express our opinions and react. We should just keep it open.

edit: why use pms? What is the help and feedback desk for? PMs are for p2p sexs with your buddies as you are all proposing.

Here's why pms don't work. Here's the reaction:

'hey Sprite. Hey Sprite you listenen? STFU. This is my site.'

Were I to just use pms, I wouldn't have ever been able to get an open thread on the matter. If you don't let a thread stay open about it in the help desk and treat it responsibly, why would you keep a pm about it going?

anyway, though the amount of posts saying 'no' to a spam section are a bit more than those 'for' a spam section, seems like its not the 400 member base you were talking about. Handful want it. handful don't want it... at least if they don't want it, they don't care enough to make a post about it.


oh and if anyone wants an example of a well run spam section, here you go:

http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/spam-coliseum.html

And on an FF site zomg. o.O

I just joined, they're quite welcoming.

Maybe not necessary, but I'm up to it! It gathers all infections into a protected area!
Yes for me! ( Does it count x10? I'd like to win I'll pay 20 cents instead)

crackitlackin1 said:

And what Alise said. No need for spam here, the forum is perfectly fine without one. If people really want to spam, making their own forum is perfectly fine too.

Click to expand...

No I don't want to make a new forum. After FCF turned into a piece of shit I had no where else to go and since people were coming here I decided to as well. Not only that I pumped half my paycheck into this forum so we could switch to vbulletin (and due to the fucked up economy it wasn't very cheap).

Anyway enough of that nonsense why do I want a spam forum? Because I prefer a (mostly) free environment when posting. I don't like ff all that much either. So other than the chit chat thread (which tbh is a shit way of having a good chat like everyone else has said), General Chat which if your topic isn't good enough it gets closed, and entertainment where the only good thread is what song are you currently listening to. UN's are shit, Social groups are shit. They're not the same as a good banter topic.

Fuck as gabe suggested i'd even be happy with a dam 121 section (with group 121's ofc :monster)


And whoever said they don't want a spam section because of drama shouldn't be posting in this thread, you're being stereotypical.

edited out the inflammatory comment for dacon. <3

leave the inflammatory comments at the door.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having a Spam section. When TLS first opened, I requested a Spam section and a 121 section be created. Both ideas were shot down, for reasons that you've all heard already. I was a spammer at ACF, I know the positive and negative aspects of it. I enjoyed catching it up with my buddies, without having to worry about someone breathing down my neck about every post I made. But remember, that was ACF, not one square inch of that forum was managed properly, so naturally things got out of hand.

TLS isn't ACF. Yes, we do have a large portion of ACF's members, but that does not mean this place will/should be managed the same way. Yop and many others believe a Spam Section will create a subculture of individuals that will inevitably separate the community. And, I actually agree with this. I was a member of the subculture on ACF. We got away with murder. Why? Because we knew the staff was incompetent, and we were just assholes back then, tbqfh.

But, a year has past since then. I think we've all moved on from ACF, and we're now just looking for a place to chill and socialize. Is Spam absolutely necessary to achieve this? No, not at all. I've been able to get by quite fine without it. I have FFOF and FCF to spam at, so it's not a problem for me. But right now, I think it boils down to what the members want. Collectively, forum communities make the right decision 99% of the time. So, if it were up to me, I'd put up a poll.

Now, when TLS was opened, the majority were in agreement with Yop about the spam section. They didn't want it. Today, I've only seen 10 out of 420 active members pushing for a Spam Section. That's not a majority, and therefore I don't believe a Spam section should be created. But, if a poll were set up, it might tell us otherwise. I highly doubt it, but there's always a possiblity.

And, in the end, it's about what Yop wants. He set the precedent when I asked for a spam section when TLS opened. He simply didn't want to take that chance. If he doesn't want it, it's not happening. And, that's the end of it.

I saw something that I hope to never see again, 'cause I think it belittles a very sad and very real problem, that while people may think stupid - is seriously a consideration for some who feel so low and hopeless - of any age. I'm talking about the character assassination threads (aka: bashing someone for whatever reason, be it partly his/her own fault or not) up to the point where signatures and icons are made expressing opinions such as, "if you're going to cut yourself, make sure you hit a vein." That's not a direct quote, but it is the general concept of some of these statements.

That's not a joke, and it's not funny.

As well, making hate threads and virtually butt-kicking someone relentlessly for things that may have been partly that person's own fault or not is just not fair. (Yes, life isn't fair!) We all make mistakes and we all get angry at mistakes made. Would any of us appreciate a thread dedicated to harboring hate against ourselves? Granted, people can just rub us all the wrong way, and we're not all going to like each other, but we can still be fairly civil - in other words: not hateful and spiteful, creating an environment so negative that it permeates every single other thread on the board (or mostly every other thread.) I have no problem with people having their say, but I do have a problem when it lasts for pages upon pages of posts stating nothing but vile comments about how much a 'waste' someone is.

For the reason of the maliciousness alone that arose from the ACF Spam section, which was my first and only personal experience to said section, and not much more than what I heard about the same said section, I cannot see why anyone would wish to consider such an environment again. There is no way anyone can gaurantee that this will not happen; it's foolish to 'assure' safety from this, though it be a hypothetical situation of a negative nature. I am not donating money to TLS to have anyone viciously treated - I don't care who they are, and if they are such a 'bad person' then ban them outright, allow people their say for a short while, and then move on. Also, I feel that issues should be handled in the thread they arose in, it just seems logical - it involves the people present, and can clear the air right then and there without calling more attention to the problem.

This is my opinion on the matter. I vote no to a Spam section. Lastly, while I do understand what's said about the Chit Chat thread, I am not convinced that the General Conversation board couldn't serve the purposes being brought forth. The whole idea reaks of back stabbing and mean-spirited gossip, not simply complaining about someone's bad day. I'm sorry for any people I anger over this matter, but this is where I stand.

EDIT: Okay, I was reading some other posts; no, I never was in a good spam section, or even deeply in one ever, so I don't get the whole point. I will be honest. I have no problem with lolcat posts or bad day posts with some substance - 'cause honestly, if you don't want to talk about it - don't post it! I have a problem with - as stated above - the hate threads, and I guess that would start to fall if not fall directly into the 'clique' issue. Again, we don't have to like everyone, but we can be civil - if you hate someone, don't give them a hard time 'just because'. In fact, I would love a lolcat thread - if it's what I'm thinking of. I don't mind those distractions from life, or dealing with offline life - I mind when it hurts people.

[/ soapbox]

I disagree with Spam and

If a member comes here with enough time to spam, I would encourage them to put that time and effort into starting a worthwhile discussion instead.

Click to expand...

This is one of the many reasons that sums up why.

X-SOLDIER said:

NOTE BY RYU: SINCE YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT SEEING THIS, YOU ARE ALLOWED ONE POST. IF YOU NEED TO ADD MORE TO YOUR POST, EDIT YOUR EXISTING POST. DO NOT MAKE A NEW REPLY.

I'm tired of all the BAWWWing, and bla bla bla and the needless drama & back and forth-ing between the new members, and the old friends, and the staff in regards to the Spam section. Where no one feels like they're being properly heard / listened to, etc. So here are the rules.

• ONE POST PER PERSON.
• Say everything you want to say.
• NO FLAMING / MISCONDUCT.
• ANY posting about wanting a Spam Section, etc. outside of this thread will be warned.

I'll post my view first and foremost, and then I'll respond when everyone's had a chance to say what they want.

---------------------------

I was a minor part of the spam section back at ACF, and I can understand the want for the section that's familiar that will help all the old friends find a place to sit around and chat like old times. That being said, TLS is not ACF2, and things were made specifically NOT to have the same 5-year-old begging drama, and relentless, pointless bullshit that frequented that forum. We have many other concepts, and measures put in place to ensure that the members (pronounced "You folks") can still have an enjoyable time here.

We don't want to re-enforce a lot of the clique-ish behavior that said section generates, while still being able to have a community based on FFVII, with familiar friends, and still focus on a better Community, and better site for everyone.

While I still have no intention of changing this, I want to hear everyone's opinion, and move on past all this crap, so please post, and I'll look them over. This thread will be closed on Friday, and I will make my final reply on the matter.



X

Click to expand...

I really don't care about my account here.

A) Stop signing your fucking posts. That shit makes you look hella lame and while you may have been doing it for a while it doesn't make you any less gay. There isn't a reason for your to validate every single post you make with some ridiculously stupid signature. People like you are real fucking dorks.

B) Your final reply doesn't really mean shit. You have power over a bunch of 17 year olds. So sitting here asking for opinions on something you have no intent of changing is the most fucking retarded thing I've ever heard. You're an idiot.

I'm out, adios.

I just wanna start my post off with, if this is not ACF, why keep comparing ACF to TLS? I see a lot of staff saying that TLS isn't ACF but keep comparing what happened on ACF and how ACF was managed to TLS.

To be honest, if we were going to flame newbies, we would've done it by now reguardless of spam section or not. When I managed GC I would see it all the time in different threads.

My point of view as a previous mod of spam is...it shouldn't be a section where anything goes. If it's a section where anything goes, that's how you end up with flaming of innocent members. What it should be is a section or stupid topics that still have a kick to them: IE topics I attempted to make in the Chit Chat thread (The Cat Pictures; Discussion about my Dial up and how I can't point by tits with Dial up; the idiot I met who thought a body kit increases your horsepower; how I am a grease monkey; and my last one was how all my topics were being ignored.)

These threads that I tried to create in chit-chat thread didn't pick up because subjects change too quickly in the chit-chat thread. They were good for about one post after that and that was it. (as far as I saw) These topics were topics I wanted to discuss but let's face it, they would not be looked upon as relevant topics in the GC section.

So where can I put these topics? It seems no where. That is why I requested a spam section. For off-topics that are just random like the ones I attempted to start in chit-chat (as I was told to do). I did not want a spam section so it could be like old times and everyone could hide in there and flame anyone who dare even click the subforum link to view it. It was to make a more lax environment where random topics can be put without fear that they will get warned because they don't appear as a normal GC thread would (IE: Pixel's "What Is Your Life Dream Thread") <-- I thought this thread was a good example because it presents discussion. (what topics I wanted to start lack)

I believe that if the spam section had about the same rules as the rest of the forum except spam being allowed, it would do well. No flaming, harassing, etc. The cliques have already been formed. They're more than likely not going to be broken. The lack of spam section is not going to make the cliques go their separate ways to be honest.

I don't see why we really can't give it a shot (I know I'm late so sorry if I don't know if it had already been given a shot). How do we know that it will be exactly like it was on ACF? Like it's been stated by many, TLS is NOT ACF. Things are different and I believe if managed correctly, spam section would work out and if we haven't even TRIED it, how do we know for a fact that it won't work out? Because staff was too lax on ACF with spam and let members flame whoever they wanted? bah. Once again, TLS is not ACF. There are many forums out there with successful spam sections. (It won't be hard for me to find an example if you need me to.)

If you really wanna look back at ACF, we could LEARN what NOT to do from the forum including making sections work by NOT managing the same way ACF's was managed.

For those who think there isn't a need because the Chit-Chat Thread is doing fine: Yes there is a lot of talk about n00dz and what not but as I stated above, I tried to start topics in there that would not be suitable to start in GC that didn't go anywhere because they were all in Chit-Chat. My topics were for lolz and had nothing to do with n00dz (except for the dial-up one). We can try to start our threads we wish to have in Spam in Chit-Chat thread but the thread just doesn't cut it for holding those topics.

Spam is something that must be used in moderation. I enjoy TLS because it isn't repeating the mistakes of ACF. I've listened to people say 'But ACF isn't TLS.' I did share that opinion until last night, when I witnessed the dissension caused by spam all over again.

If Staff aren't 100% sure about something this controversial, then they shouldn't employ it.

I think we don't need a spam section.

We have an awesome cool clubs section that we can discuss cool characters that we believe to be real. Who needs mindless spam when you can pull this kinda crazy wicked stuff in clubs.


Also with a spam section there is no guarantee of sex, its only a minor chance.




I think that all your arguments are redundant.