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Stagnant Lifestream

Dumb Apple

Soul Wrought of Terra Corrupt
AKA
Geostigma, Omega Gist
@.@ Ok, I'm having a hard time wrapping my little fangirl mind around this, so I'm hoping some of you can help me put everything into order.

I'm super confused about Stagnant Lifestream. Is it the same as G Substance, or is it something different all together? What exactly is Stagnant Lifestream? All I can really remember is that it's something that flows against the Lifestream, or is the opposite of the Lifestream or something.

Can anybody expand on this for me?
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
First off: G-Substance doesn't exist. ;)
That's just a fan term that had been floating around for a while. It was used to describe stagnant lifestream although it doesn't actually have a connection to Genesis at all, so it's really a misnomer.

All we know is that stagnant lifestream is a natural occurence within the normal Lifestream. What exactly causes it hasn't been expanded upon. We only know that it seems to be very malicious and lethal and that Chaos is born from it.
 

Dumb Apple

Soul Wrought of Terra Corrupt
AKA
Geostigma, Omega Gist
So, in layman's terms, G Substance is Stagnant Lifestream, in that G Substance isn't real, and what is referred to as G Substance is actually Stagnant Lifestream. [Star Scar Syndrome vs. Geostigma] Is that right?

But then I'm confused about Weiss; wasn't Weiss born without any impurities? How can he be considered a Tsviet if he doesn't have Stagnant Lifestream in him?

>.< Or is there a difference between G Cells and Stagnant Lifestream?
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
G cells (or genes) and Stagnant Lifestream aren't related at all.

G cells are the resulting genetical material from the experiments that gave birth to Genesis.

They were used in the experiments that gave birth to the several members of the Tsviets, but each one of them was born from a different experiment, each one of them with different methods and objectives.

The experiment that gave birth to Rosso, for example, was made with the goal to bring the human body to its limits, bring it closer to immortality.

The only Tsviet experiment in wich Stagnant Lifestream was used was the one who gave birth to Nero, wich originated his "Darkness".

Therefore, Weiss has g cells in his body, but since he doesn't have any stagnant lifestream in his being, he's pure and untainted.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Just from the name (which is always risky in a translated game), I would guess that Stagnant Lifestream is Lifestream which is separated from the whole swell, and thus doesn't flow. (hence, stagnant) Standing water is to mosquitoes as Stagnant Lifestream is to Chaos. ;D

But wait, if Weiss has G Cells, does that make him a Genesis Copy? (apparently he isn't, given the lack of wing and degredation, but DC WAS made before CC.)
 

Dumb Apple

Soul Wrought of Terra Corrupt
AKA
Geostigma, Omega Gist
@.@ I think that's whats confusing me; I get so used to hearing things from the Japanese translations that once they throw the official English translation thrown at me I get all sorts of confused.

Well, obviously, Genesis finds somehow to stop his degredation, because he's in one piece at the end of Dirge of Cerberus. It could be that whatever kept the Tsviets from degrading saved Genesis too. It could explain one of the reasons he was brought to Deepground...?

Ok, so real Tsviets [as in, the ones with colors] have G Cells, not Stagnant Lifestream ['cept Nero]. G Cells, are the result of Project G, Project Gillian.

... what's so special about Gillian that makes her genes capable of producing G Cells? Or has that not been talked about?
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
Gillian (IIRC) was injected with Jenova cells when she was pregnant. So she would be able to produce these cells through some kind of mutation? (I don't remember well now, it's been a while for me since I've played it.)

DC and CC don't seem to mix very well. In DC Genesis was the one who was meant to have changed Deepground from a hospital to some place for experiments into making DG SOLDIER and that Wiess and other DGS are supposed to have 'G factors' unrelated to Jenova. But CC comes alone, and DG has already been doing experiments (hence Wiess and Nero being in CC) while Genesis is deemed a failure and dumped in Banora, and G factors do originate from Jenova. (Or so says Wiki, I remember the finer details of DC even less than CC.)

Maybe Genesis being the one who transformed DG doesn't mean that he himself did it, perhaps it was just his existance that changed it without him having a direct hand in it. But that still would leave this Jenova thing, with which DC's plot starts to come apart.

[quote author=Dumb Apple link=topic=17.msg70#msg70 date=1227654537][Star Scar Syndrome vs. Geostigma] Is that right?[/quote]
Well, 'Star Scar Syndrome' was a (slightly incorrect) translation.

On the other hand, 'G Substance' never seems to have existed at all outside of this one guy who mentioned.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=17.msg84#msg84 date=1227687448]Maybe Genesis being the one who transformed DG doesn't mean that he himself did it, perhaps it was just his existance that changed it without him having a direct hand in it. But that still would leave this Jenova thing, with which DC's plot starts to come apart.[/quote]

This is how I interprited it. Genesis' attitude at the end of Crisis Core seems to be rather complacent given everything that happened to him motivationally during the game, and I think it's more referring to a particular breakthrough in how things were being run in DG rather than him actually taking part -especially given where he's found at the end of DoC, and how everything about his has been removed from official records in typical ShinRa fashion.

It may be some translation specifics not quite jiving with this, as well as the glaring absence of more available specifics from Online Mode as background to help develop everything.


And as for stagnant lifestream- ForceStealer's example is exactly how I envision it. It brings a death/stagnation aspect to the lifecycle of the lifestream, and thus Chaos is the one to be the harbinger of the ending of a particular cycle.


X 8)
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
I imagined stagnant lifestream being similar to Geostigma. The lifestream is tainted through natural means and tries to get rid of that taint. Just like the human body oozes out black pus, the planet "oozes" out black and tainted spiritual energy that gets seperated from the rest of the pure stream and remains stagnant inside some ranom underground cave. Difference is, Geostigma wasn't caused by natural means, but meh.

Question is, what exactly causes the taint? Evil souls? Environmental pollution?
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I think stagnation is just a natural process of a Planet's lifecycle slowing down like the current slowing in a river - thus when it reaches a point when the cycle isn't strong enough any more, Chaos gathers up everything, and the Omega Weapon entity of the Planet departs for a new world, and the lifecycle starts over somewhere else like was demonstrated in DoC.


X 8)
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
None of the Tsviets have Genesis's whole cells. They only have parts of his genes that were spliced into their DNA during their "creation." And it's this special factor in his "genes" that make Genesis truly unique. It's this factor that made Deep Ground change into the crazy place we know in DC.

And really, if anyone here remembers FFIX, the concept of "stagnant lifestream" is almost the exact same as "Mist" in FFIX. Mist and Stagnant Lifestream are just stagnant spirit energy that has ceased to cycle through the planetary cycle and thus has become corrupted. The "life" that spawns from this corrupted lifestream is usually "dark" like the Black Mages of FFIX, and Chaos. It's essentially a corrupt anti-thesis of the normal, healthy spirit energy.

While in FFIX the cause of "Mist" was an outside force dividing and keeping the spirit energy from returning (The Ifa Tree), in FFVII we're not told what does it. From the G-Reports, it seems to be a natural consequence and occurrence.

@hitoshura

CC doesn't really change anything about the history of DG. The CC Ultimania and Scenario Q&A state that the birth of Genesis was the factor that caused Deepground to no longer be a hospital but instead a secret experimental laboratory. And during the chapter of Dirge of Cerberus where Vincent is allowed to roam and talk on the Sierra, speaking with one of the WRO soldiers explains that it was the presence of this SOLDIER named "G" that caused the facility to focus on human body experiments. It never says G was the one who did it. It was merely his presence; he was the cause.

And it has nothing to do with Genesis being connected with Jenova. It's something unique and intrinsic about him. Which is still a mystery.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=17.msg188#msg188 date=1227907608]
@hitoshura

CC doesn't really change anything about the history of DG. The CC Ultimania and Scenario Q&A state that the birth of Genesis was the factor that caused Deepground to no longer be a hospital but instead a secret experimental laboratory. And during the chapter of Dirge of Cerberus where Vincent is allowed to roam and talk on the Sierra, speaking with one of the WRO soldiers explains that it was the presence of this SOLDIER named "G" that caused the facility to focus on human body experiments. It never says G was the one who did it. It was merely his presence; he was the cause.

And it has nothing to do with Genesis being connected with Jenova. It's something unique and intrinsic about him. Which is still a mystery.
[/quote]
It's what I get for reading stuff off Wikipedia :monster:
 

Dumb Apple

Soul Wrought of Terra Corrupt
AKA
Geostigma, Omega Gist
xD Which is why I asked about this stuff here; Wikipedia's information on this stuff is limited, and I'm not sure how much of it is real or fan speculation/misinterpretation made "canon".

So the Tsviets [real Tsviets] only have specific genes spliced into them from Genesis. This probably accounts for their lack of degradation..?

Genesis's genes were developed from Project Gillian. Project Gillian was a result of Gillian being injected with Jenova cells while pregnant, that somehow mutated to form something else entirely.

Stagnant Lifestream is a seemingly natural process where normal Lifestream is separated and becomes stagnant. It has nothing to do with the development of Tsvients, minus Nero.

@.@ Does that sound about right?

 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=17.msg188#msg188 date=1227907608]The "life" that spawns from this corrupted lifestream is usually "dark" like the Black Mages of FFIX, and Chaos. It's essentially a corrupt anti-thesis of the normal, healthy spirit energy. [/quote]

Not to take this discussion in an entirely different direction, but I'm just musing about how this compares to the black Lifestream in Advent Children. Don't misunderstand, I know it's not the same thing, the black Lifestream was simply the spirit energy created by those who died of Geostigma. But it did conjure images (and words on the board) as an anti-Lifestream. Or Deathstream, if you like, lol. But if stagnant lifestream is also the antithesis of Lifestream...

I don't really have anywhere to go with this, it's just interesting that the Compilation has yielded two different anti-Lifestreams.
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=17.msg220#msg220 date=1227938082]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=17.msg188#msg188 date=1227907608]The "life" that spawns from this corrupted lifestream is usually "dark" like the Black Mages of FFIX, and Chaos. It's essentially a corrupt anti-thesis of the normal, healthy spirit energy. [/quote]

Not to take this discussion in an entirely different direction, but I'm just musing about how this compares to the black Lifestream in Advent Children. Don't misunderstand, I know it's not the same thing, the black Lifestream was simply the spirit energy created by those who died of Geostigma. But it did conjure images (and words on the board) as an anti-Lifestream. Or Deathstream, if you like, lol. But if stagnant lifestream is also the antithesis of Lifestream...

I don't really have anywhere to go with this, it's just interesting that the Compilation has yielded two different anti-Lifestreams.
[/quote]

I believe that the difference between AC's Negative Lifestream and DOC's Stagnant Lifestream is that the Stagnant Lifestream is spirit energy that became, er...stagnant and separates from the pure Lifestream. It's a natural process in the cycle and after being separated, it doesn't intervene with the normal Lifestream anymore.

The Negative Lifestream, however, it's normal spirit energy that was corrupted and taken away from the normal cycle, being an unnatural event. But while the Stagnant lifestream doesn't interfere with the normal Lifestream, the Negative Lifestream was corrupting the normal Lifestream and subjecting it to Sephiroth's will.

Another point is that, while the Stagnant Lifestream is not linked to anything or anyone, the Negative Lifestream was linked to Sephiroth, as a part of his being, an extension of himself. In a sense, it's Sephiroth's own Lifestream.
 

OWA-2

Pro Adventurer
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=17.msg188#msg188 date=1227907608]And it has nothing to do with Genesis being connected with Jenova. It's something unique and intrinsic about him. Which is still a mystery.[/quote]

Did the creators say that?
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
[quote author=Dark and Divine link=topic=17.msg224#msg224 date=1227950863]Another point is that, while the Stagnant Lifestream is not linked to anything or anyone, the Negative Lifestream was linked to Sephiroth, as a part of his being, an extension of himself. In a sense, it's Sephiroth's own Lifestream.
[/quote]

In relation to that - does this have anything to do with the Red Lifestream that exits Sephiroth's body when Cloud kills him at the end of FFVII, and then enters Cloud's body and comes out pure? This could just be FFVII's interpretation of the Negative Lifestream, but it seems to hold some significance either way.


Sephiroth_Dead_1.jpg

Sephiroth_Dead_2.jpg

Sephiroth_Dead_3.jpg



X :neo:
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
Maybe it was meant to simbolyze how Cloud was able to get rid of Sephiroth's influence, the puppet finaly cutting off the strings of the puppeteer.

 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
[quote author=OWA-2 link=topic=17.msg238#msg238 date=1228000807]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=17.msg188#msg188 date=1227907608]And it has nothing to do with Genesis being connected with Jenova. It's something unique and intrinsic about him. Which is still a mystery.[/quote]

Did the creators say that?
[/quote]

In so many words. The creators state the only difference between "Project G" and "Project S" is "a difference between when the Jenova cells were injected into the body, and the concentration and purity of the Jenova cells." And whatever it is that makes Genesis "unique" is a secret at this time that has not been revealed. And considering Crisis Core explains his connection to Jenova in full, that's not the secret, unique factor :monster:

Also, about Sephiroth's tainted lifestream, its best to think of Sephiroth as a kid who gets in a public pool and just pees in it. He taints it and thus it becomes impure and connected to him, becoming his own vile, planetary crap :monster:
 

SOLDIERis1337

Pro Adventurer
I'd say the reason that the Tsviet's aren't G copies and lack wings and degradation is that they aren't given G cells. I was under the impression that they were only given one specific "unique" factor from Genesis' make up, not just shot up with whole cells from him. That's what I inferred from the talk about Genesis having a "unique" quality in the Q&A section Ultimania at least.
 

Suzaku

Pro Adventurer
What makes the Negative Lifestream unique is that Sephiroth is able to take control of it, as a result of it being comprised of those who died from Geostigma (having been tainted by his and Jenova's cells).

Stagnant Lifestream is part of the natural life cycle of a Planet, and is comprised of Lifestream that is impure and has been seperated from the currents of the Planet. These impurities can include a variety of things, including extra-terrestrial substances that have entered the Lifestream, which means that, more or less.

When enough of this gathers into a single place it creates Chaos, triggering the process whereby all pure life on the Planet is returned to the Lifestream and all pure currents converge to form Omega, which departs, leaving all traces of corruption and stagnation behind with the dying Planet.

That's why the DGS scanned for Geostigma when they were taking on the role of Chaos and "harvesting" pure Lifestream.
 

Ravynne Nevyrmore

that one Lucrecia fangirl
AKA
Ravynne
The creators state the only difference between "Project G" and "Project S" is "a difference between when the Jenova cells were injected into the body, and the concentration and purity of the Jenova cells."
Now I'm fuzzy on the details of CC, but was Genesis actually injected with Jenova cells as a fetus? I am, for some reason, under the belief that Gillian was the one injected with the J-cells, which was then filtered into Genesis's body, and that in the case of Lucrecia/Sephiroth, fetal!Sephiroth was the one injected with J-cells and they simply got filtered into Lucrecia's body from that. That's what I thought the difference between Project S (the Jenova Project) and Project G was.

Also, am I correct in saying that Project G predated Project S by a short bit and that's why Hojo resented Hollander? That would also make Genesis a little older than Sephiroth.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Genesis did not get direct injection of Jenova cells as a fetus.

Project G did predate Project S, and Hojo didn't resent Hollander, Hollander resented Hojo.

Genesis is a little bit older than Sephiroth.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Exactly :monster:

That's how Genesis and Sephiroth are different, and how Sephiroth is superior to Genesis.
 
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