“Life Got You Down? Escape From It All, Here in Nibelheim!” Concerning the Nibelheim Incident.

If you were given the opportunity to live in Nibelheim, free of taxes, would you take it?

  • Um, no?

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • Chyea, sign me up!

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Uh..um..erm..I dunno! I'm torn, really...

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Congratulations, Fancy. You've failed at this polling thing yet again.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7

fancy

pants
AKA
Fancy
Heyoooooo! :awesome:

I should be a-workin’ but darnnit, I’ve been a-thinkin’ and my brain’s been a-itchin’. And when that itch gots to be too strong, I knew I just had to let it all out!

Now these here question concern Nibelheim (and, I suppose, in the larger scheme of things, the poli-sci nature of the world of Gaia in general). But first, please bear with my political rant/musings on the nature of Gaia, lol. Apologies in advance.

Firstly, though ShinRa is technically just a power-electric company, their power and influence is so substantial, that I think it’s safe to say that they’re basically a government entity over the city of Midgar. Thus, Midgar could technically be considered a state of some sort, not so?

Thus, prior to ShinRa building a reactor in Nibelheim, could the town technically have been considered an independent nation? If so, would the fact that ShinRa was able to come in and build a reactor and erect property in which they’d carry out significant scientific ventures (the Manor) be considered an act of colonisation? Do you think Nibelheim could technically be considered a nation governed by ShinRa by the time Tifa and Cloud are born and flourishing in the area? Do you think ShinRa implemented taxes on small town residents?

I ask all this, ultimately, because the way ShinRa handled the aftermath of the Nibelheim Incident has always sort of boggled my mind, specifically the fact that they repopulated the rebuilt Nibelheim with actors. Actors? Exactly what is meant by the term, “actor”? Was ShinRa seriously able to recruit a number of folks with regular gigs starring in commercials/plays/television/films etc (or otherwise, hopefuls with dreams of starring in those mediums) to go live in the middle of nowhere on the off chance that someone might come by the isolated town with strict instructions to deny the Nibelheim that existed prior to the burning? Yoooooooooooooooo!

That's never made sense to me because I'd think that, naturally, these "actors" would eventually want to go home. I mean, as much as I would love to pretend to be an elf in Peter Jackson's rendition of the Lord of the Rings, I'd miss my mum eventually. And my friends. And technology. And general society. And I'd miss it all very, very much. I don't care how good the money is.

I was thinking that what would have made more sense was, assuming ShinRa did, indeed, annex Nibelheim (if not then, then certainly by the time they bothered rebuilding the area), ShinRa could have implemented adverts in housing for some property out west. Maybe sold it as an “escape from city life.” I even imagined they might have waived taxes for the first three to five years or so as an incentive for people to move. It reminds me of the phenomena of Suburbanisation in general, where folks will flee the congested and high-price city life in order to get closer to “nature” and to have an open space they can call their own. The difference, mayhaps, being in the case of ShinRA and Nibelheim, folks had to sign contracts where they promised to deny Tifa and Cloud’s Nibelheim and “act” like they were long time residents. And because these people have long learned to comply with whatever strange antics ShinRa comes up with, they thought nothing of the strange conditions.

Mayhaps this whole train of thought is pointless because the poli-sci logic applied to real life simply doesn’t apply to Gaia, but pardon me if I try to justify these things anyway. Hehe. Hope everyone is doing alright. If not alright, then I hope the rest of week looks up for you. :)
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
No, mainly because I don't feel like Nibelheim is a particularly nice place to live. The Nibel mountains look horrible and weird, there isn't much/enough greenery.

As to the whys and wherefores of why Shinra did it. I have no fucking idea. Most people would accept an explanation of 'there was a fire and the town burned down/everybody died' and either people would want to build there again or not....who gives a shit? Except Cloud, and they had no reason to believe he was even alive/capable of doing anything (or even traveling there in the first place)

It's possibru I'm missing some plot details....but even so, the whole thing seems needlessly convoluted. :monster:
 

fancy

pants
AKA
Fancy
Haha, the conclusion that I came to when trying to justify why ShinRa felt compelled to rebuild Nibelheim to the T (and not, say, Mt. Corel) was because of all the research kept there; specifically in the manor. But then, I guess the counterargument could be, why not haul all that precious information over to Midgar/ShinRa's base?

Oh, ShinRa, u so silly!
 
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Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Exactly, and even if they didn't take the research to Shinra HQ isn't it better that the town doesn't exist, less chance of people snooping?
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
It's a big mountain, and they don't actually know what happened to Sephiroth, or at least where the body ended up. They wanted the area on lockdown and that required a cover story. Hojo was in operational control so he only cared about his experiment and never thought say "Okay stop, that's way more then enough, you actors can go home now."
 

fancy

pants
AKA
Fancy
Exactly, and even if they didn't take the research to Shinra HQ isn't it better that the town doesn't exist, less chance of people snooping?

The most obvious (and I fear, lol, the laziest) excuse is that Pres. Shinra was just generally off his rocker and didn't bother to think a lot of these things through. It was all about keeping up appearances with him, even if he wasn't consistent with that...

Or maybe he was paranoid about keeping the root of SOLDIERs very origins so close to home? Maybe Nibelheim's isolation was the very reason why he thought it a good place to keep some of his secrets? And maybe he assumed that the country folk were too simple to even bother delving into something like the JENOVA project, even if they happened upon it?

Yes. I can isolate myself and write my novel.

Hahaha, I know that feel. I've often longed for a place where the world keeps still and I have all the silence and calm and time that I need to nurture the projects/stories/arts jammed in my head.
 

fancy

pants
AKA
Fancy
It's a big mountain, and they don't actually know what happened to Sephiroth, or at least where the body ended up. They wanted the area on lockdown and that required a cover story. Hojo was in operational control so he only cared about his experiment and never thought say "Okay stop, that's way more then enough, you actors can go home now."

Hahaha. Poor actors. I'd be furious.

So you think ShinRa would have been okay with the actors eventually going home and essentially leaving the town abandoned? Hmm! I thought part of the incentive was to have "witnesses" there denying that the Incident ever happened/that Sephiroth went mad. Because surely ShinRa could not have counted on nobody knowing about the "old" Nibelheim, Cloud and Tifa aside. If a traveler such as Zangan resided there, who's to say there weren't more in the past?
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
I think the narrative purpose is to sew some of the first seeds of doubt about Cloud's memories. It's a very clumsy idea, and frankly I hope they come up with something better. As for actors, it's probably more like they took members of ShinRa Inc and went "You live here now. You get paid a stipe-end for keeping your mouth shut." and left it at that.

I imagine they went through the extra effort because the reality of Sephiroth going mad would be enough to ruin ShinRa's image, and they wanted absolutley nobody poking around. Just leaving it as a fire would still offer curiosity.
 

Ghost X

Moderator
Do I answer the poll with the knowledge I have, or am I roleplaying as a person who doesn't know anything? :p.
 

fancy

pants
AKA
Fancy
I think the narrative purpose is to sew some of the first seeds of doubt about Cloud's memories. It's a very clumsy idea, and frankly I hope they come up with something better. As for actors, it's probably more like they took members of ShinRa Inc and went "You live here now. You get paid a stipe-end for keeping your mouth shut." and left it at that.

I imagine they went through the extra effort because the reality of Sephiroth going mad would be enough to ruin ShinRa's image, and they wanted absolutley nobody poking around. Just leaving it as a fire would still offer curiosity.

Ah, the stipend thing makes sense. I still think it would be so much easier just to pave a way for people who long for that sort of lifestyle anyway. If the party willingly goes, you don't have to worry about someone becoming resentful and maybe rebelling at the first opportunity. Silly, silly.

Agreed about keeping up appearances for the sake of ShinRa's image, lmao, though it's ironic considering all the other awful stuff they've blatantly done. Right? I'm not projecting my own knowledge of the game to the citizens of Midgar, am I? :huh:

Do I answer the poll with the knowledge I have, or am I roleplaying as a person who doesn't know anything? :p.

Hahaha, very fair question! The roleplay sounds fun. Roleplay! Roleplay!

"I'm sick of this polluted air and the crowded streets! I'm going to the land where the the sky is always blue and the chocobos run free! Where everybody knows your name and the milk comes straight from the cow!"

Little did I know with my limited knowledge concerning anything outside of Midgar, the weather in Nibelheim is wet and cold and there are frigging dragons living nearby. :@
 

Flintlock

Pro Adventurer
Yes, provided I'm free to roam everyone's houses like the in-game characters are. I'd put on Tifa's orthopaedic underwear and jam on her piano all day long. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Some of the questions you're pondering are difficult to answer. For instance, we don't know whether Shinra Manor was named as such because of the Jenova Project scientists working there or because members of the family had lived there (with this then being why the mansion was chosen for research). All we have is what Cloud and Tifa tell us in Kalm:

----
Tifa: "The villagers used to call it Shinra mansion."
Cloud: "Long ago, people from Shinra used to live in that mansion..."
----

So it may be less that Shin-Ra took over the area, and more that there was always a presence.

What we do know -- and this may have something to do with why Shin-Ra would go to the trouble of wanting to reconstruct and control the area -- is that the Mt. Nibel reactor was the first mako reactor, and that President Shinra himself considered it significant. This exchange in Before Crisis may shed some light on that:

----
Veld: "Mr. President, we’ve got an emergency situation. The employees stationed at the Nibelheim reactor have all disappeared without a trace."

President Shinra: "What? Find out what happened."

Veld: "Yes, sir."

President Shinra: "Our most important reactor is there. It’s a historically significant place – our company’s first reactor. There’s also what’s inside the reactor itself…"

Veld: "I understand perfectly, sir. The secret in that reactor can’t get out."
----

Finally, on the subject of taxes, while we never hear the word itself used, Shin-Ra does essentially utilize the price of mako as a tax, raising it when they need to:

----
Reeve: "We have the damage estimates for Sector 7. Considering those factories we already set up and all the investments, the damage is estimated at approximately 10 Billion gil... The estimated cost to rebuild Sector 7 is..."

President Shinra: "We're not rebuilding."

Reeve: "What?"

President Shinra: "We're leaving Sector 7 as it is. And restarting the Neo-Midgar plan."

Reeve: "...then the Ancients?"

President Shinra: "The Promised Land will soon be ours. I want you to raise the Mako rates 15% in every area."

Palmer: "Rate hike! Rate hike! Tra, la, la! And please include our Space Program in the budget!"

President Shinra: "Reeve and Scarlet will divide the extra income from the rate increase."

Palmer: "Oh man!"

Reeve: "Sir. If you raise the rates, the people will lose confidence..."

President Shinra: "It'll be all right. The ignorant citizens won't lose confidence, they'll trust Shinra, Inc. even more."
----

People were so dependent on mako, they probably didn't even fuss as much about that sort of thing as we do about real-world taxes. Particularly since it's not being called a tax, but rather being sold as a commodity.
 
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fancy

pants
AKA
Fancy
^^Oh, thanks for this response! So I guess that means ShinRa would have to have threatened to penalises any town under their influence that tried would try to use an alternative means of energy in order to secure that revenue... interesting, interesting.

Haha, the bit about the manor and ShinRa always having a presence sounds like a ShinRa family origin story in the making. Me likey!

Yes, provided I'm free to roam everyone's houses like the in-game characters are. I'd put on Tifa's orthopaedic underwear and jam on her piano all day long. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Hahaha! Excuse me while I laugh forever.
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