Mythtaken: “It’s Always Night in Midgar!”

Power generation
With the exception of solar power generation, pretty much all other sources of electricity rely of the conversion of an energy source into mechanical energy. This mechanical energy drives a turbine connected to an alternator, which converts it into electricity.
In wind or hydroelectric power plants, the initial energy source is already mechanical and directly drives the turbine. Excepting the environmental disruption caused by the installation of a windmill or a dam, these energy sources cause pretty much no pollution.
In gas power plants, the turbine is driven by the gas pressure resulting from the combustion of natural gas. The combustion of natural gas is pretty much an “ideal” type of combustion where the byproducts are CO2 and water – which are not involved in “smog” types of pollution.
Other power plants utilize the heat from a reaction to create high pressure steam which is used to drive the turbine. Thermal power plants using liquid or solid fossil fuels (oil, coal) or nuclear power plants follows that route.


Thermal power plants and pollution
Thermal power plants rely on the combustion of a hydrocarbon fossil fuel to generate heat (which is then converted into mechanical energy, then into electricity). As a rule of thumb, you can draw a very basic relationships between the physical and the chemical properties of various hydrocarbon sources: light oil sources are made of small molecules which have very little sulfur and nitrogen impurities, combustion gives rise to very little pollution (besides CO2) – whereas heavy oil, bitumen, coal are made of very large molecules with lots of nitrogen and sulfur impurities. Burning a heavy hydrocarbon fuels also produces large quantities of nitrogen oxides (NOx) and sulfur oxides (SOx). These NOx and SOx gases are the primary compounds in “smog” types of pollution. Modern-day coal plants in developed countries have additional units to capture these gases before their release into the atmosphere (using scrubbers). However, these additional scrubbing processes are costly. In the old days, or in countries where environmental regulations are more lax nowadays, releasing NOx and SOx in the atmosphere was/is of secondary importance. That is why the worst cases of smog Starling found were related to 1950s London or nowadays China.


Nuclear power, mako power, and pollution
I agree with Starling regarding the parallel established between nuclear power plants and mako power plants. The stacks of mako power plants bear a resemblance with the towers of nuclear power plants, and the release of mako energy is very reminiscent of cherenkov radiation. However, I have been assuming that mako (and materia) is solid (judging by this place where mako is abundant at a natural state, not liquid (also assuming the mako fountains we see are akin to magmatic resurgences soon cooling down into solid state).
Either way, these materials would release energy in order to produce steam. In the case of nuclear power, the only pollutants are the radioactive solid byproducts of spent nuclear material, which are disposed of by confinement methods (wastes encased in a glass matrix, itself encased in concrete). One issue with the description of pollution in the context of radioactive material is that the dangerous aspects of it are completely invisible (gamma radiations) – whereas media (and pop culture) references need to give visual cues to the audience (often by making something glow). Otherwise, nuclear power generation does not contribute to atmospheric pollution (the clouds from the stacks of a nuclear power plant are only made of... water, like regular clouds). For the anecdote, France was able to boast the best air quality in Europe for a long time because 80% of its electricity came from nuclear power plants (a fun thing to mention to ecologists ).
If we extrapolate the resemblance between mako energy and nuclear energy, then the only possible pollutants would come from the possible byproducts of mako following the release of energy. However, I have never seen anything in any part of the compilation related to the dangers of spent mako byproducts (mako poisoning exists, upon exposure to high doese of “raw” mako). I think it's not a stretch to assume these byproducts to be inert. This would make mako power generation a completely clean energy source – and who wouldn't be tempted to tap into something like that? Such a situation would certainly make it easy for Shinra to advocate for this energy source.
That being said, one could interpret the glow surrounding the stacks of mako reactors as some harmful material being released in the environment, as Starling did, which could explain air pollution. However, considering that hypothesis, if Midgar's pollution is related to the release of mako energy, then the Northern Crater (aka Promised Land) would be heavily polluted as well (I don't think that's the case).
Personally, I see the glow as a phenomenon occurring naturally elsewhere (FMV of Gaea's cliff), which I would explain by an ionization of the gases where the energy is released (phenomenon similar to auroras). However, that's drawing scientific interpretation from artistic license, which someone could perfectly call “bollocks”.


Vehicle engines and pollution
Gasoline and diesel fuels are largely used in our vehicles to power their engines. In very large cities with very dense traffic, even if gasoline and diesel fuels have low sulfur and nitrogen contents, large concentrations of NOx and SOx may build up, giving rise to smog pollution. That's the primary cause of smog in developed countries (as I mentioned earlier, thermal power plants in developed countries have units to knock off NOx and SOx gases). Weather conditions have also a significant impact on the build up of smogs, as I described in my previous post on the topic. I have personally experienced very heavy smog conditions (Mexico City in a “sunny” winter day): it's very impressive.
Correspondingly, I see little reason why mako-powered engines would produce the typical smog ingredients (NOx and SOx). It's obviously very open to interpretation, but I would believe that mako-power engines would work using steam generation (just like in power plants). Now THAT would be very steampunk


Invisible pollution and visible non-pollution
At this point, there's one idea I would like to draw attention to: there's a general misconception that a type pollution is proportional to its visual impact. I'd say it's in human nature: we rely on our senses to get an appreciation of a situation. However, visual impact can be misleading. As I mentioned before, dangers of nuclear radiations are invisible. On the other hand, many people believe the air is polluted when they see clouds billowing over power plants, chemical plants, or in the wake of planes, while these clouds are very likely to be... just water. When a city is polluted by smog, there is actually very little visual difference with the same city shrouded in a haze of water droplets. The actual experience of being in a smog is special because of what you feel in comparison to a misty weather: you see a fog but the air is dry. In that respect, it is difficult to judge if the “Remake” rendition of Midgar describes a polluted environment, because we can't really know whether the haze is due to a weather phenomenon or a pollution by noxious gases.

The pollution in the Midgar slums
Reading Starling post on the topic, I think it's pretty spot on: the slums are very polluted because it's the dumpster of Midgar. Industrial wastes, sewage, water wastes, random trash, everything goes down to the slums. As far as the air pollution is concerned, with a bit more thinking, I would see 3 factors (some of them already mentioned by Starling):

• The air is extremely stagnant, mostly because of the Plate lying over the slums.
• With the presence of the Plate, I would believe very little water reaches the ground in the slums. Many environments in the slums have roads of packed dirt. In these circumstances, it is very easy to imagine an extremely dusty environment. The air may be simply polluted by very fine soil particles, which could actually lead to very harmful health conditions (silicosis). In that respect, the air does not need harmful gases to present a health hazard. However, this idea doesn't really hold given the screenshots of the remake Starling showed, where Midgar is hazy.
• If all the trash in Midgar ends up in the slums, it is very easy to imagine that the slums reek of the worst stench.

Closing comments
Starling mentioned about the Bhopal disaster – honestly I would not put that in the same category as smog pollution. While it was a case of air pollution strictly speaking, Bhopal disaster was an event which had a lot more in common with what happened at Chernobyl: a cascade of incidents compounded by negligence and incompetence, leading to the uncontrolled release of large amounts of deadly material which remained invisible to the people exposed to it.



In any case, there is considerable room for interpretation, and in this kind of situations fantasy authors are more concerned about artistic renditions and descriptions than actual scientific consistency (fantasy =/= Sci-Fi). Of course, I would prefer a fantasy world were established laws (including magic ones) remain coherent. I just hope I provided some interesting food for thoughts.

Mayo Master said:

Power generation
With the exception of solar power generation, pretty much all other sources of electricity rely of the conversion of an energy source into mechanical energy. This mechanical energy drives a turbine connected to an alternator, which converts it into electricity.
In wind or hydroelectric power plants, the initial energy source is already mechanical and directly drives the turbine. Excepting the environmental disruption caused by the installation of a windmill or a dam, these energy sources cause pretty much no pollution.
In gas power plants, the turbine is driven by the gas pressure resulting from the combustion of natural gas. The combustion of natural gas is pretty much an “ideal” type of combustion where the byproducts are CO2 and water – which are not involved in “smog” types of pollution.

Other power plants utilize the heat from a reaction to create high pressure steam which is used to drive the turbine. Thermal power plants using liquid or solid fossil fuels (oil, coal) or nuclear power plants follows that route.

Click to expand...

I've had a basic idea of power generation for a while but had to refresh my memory on some of it. It's nice to have someone who knows this stuff on a professional level to give a more in-depth explanation about how this kind of stuff relates to what we're discussing. I wasn't aware the combustion of natural gas worked that well.

Mayo Master said:

Thermal power plants and pollution
Thermal power plants rely on the combustion of a hydrocarbon fossil fuel to generate heat (which is then converted into mechanical energy, then into electricity). As a rule of thumb, you can draw a very basic relationships between the physical and the chemical properties of various hydrocarbon sources: light oil sources are made of small molecules which have very little sulfur and nitrogen impurities, combustion gives rise to very little pollution (besides CO2) – whereas heavy oil, bitumen, coal are made of very large molecules with lots of nitrogen and sulfur impurities. Burning a heavy hydrocarbon fuels also produces large quantities of nitrogen oxides (NOx) and sulfur oxides (SOx). These NOx and SOx gases are the primary compounds in “smog” types of pollution. Modern-day coal plants in developed countries have additional units to capture these gases before their release into the atmosphere (using scrubbers). However, these additional scrubbing processes are costly. In the old days, or in countries where environmental regulations are more lax nowadays, releasing NOx and SOx in the atmosphere was/is of secondary importance. That is why the worst cases of smog Starling found were related to 1950s London or nowadays China.

Click to expand...

Something I remember but didn't look into was that Tolkien's inspiration for Mordor was landscape stained black by coal based emissions around some plant or refinery. Considering volcanoes emit sulfur as well, the relation seems reasonable. I also found that it took stuff like the London smog and the deaths it led to in order for people to realize what pollution could do and start taking the problem seriously. Now it's difficult to say whether or not coal had been sufficiently used for the effects to be noticed to that degree but it seems Shinra either hasn't come to that kind of realization regarding the effects of mako power or is flat out denying it.

Mayo Master said:

Nuclear power, mako power, and pollution
I agree with Starling regarding the parallel established between nuclear power plants and mako power plants. The stacks of mako power plants bear a resemblance with the towers of nuclear power plants, and the release of mako energy is very reminiscent of cherenkov radiation. However, I have been assuming that mako (and materia) is solid (judging by this place where mako is abundant at a natural state, not liquid (also assuming the mako fountains we see are akin to magmatic resurgences soon cooling down into solid state).

Either way, these materials would release energy in order to produce steam. In the case of nuclear power, the only pollutants are the radioactive solid byproducts of spent nuclear material, which are disposed of by confinement methods (wastes encased in a glass matrix, itself encased in concrete). One issue with the description of pollution in the context of radioactive material is that the dangerous aspects of it are completely invisible (gamma radiations) – whereas media (and pop culture) references need to give visual cues to the audience (often by making something glow). Otherwise, nuclear power generation does not contribute to atmospheric pollution (the clouds from the stacks of a nuclear power plant are only made of... water, like regular clouds). For the anecdote, France was able to boast the best air quality in Europe for a long time because 80% of its electricity came from nuclear power plants (a fun thing to mention to ecologists ).

If we extrapolate the resemblance between mako energy and nuclear energy, then the only possible pollutants would come from the possible byproducts of mako following the release of energy. However, I have never seen anything in any part of the compilation related to the dangers of spent mako byproducts (mako poisoning exists, upon exposure to high doese of “raw” mako). I think it's not a stretch to assume these byproducts to be inert. This would make mako power generation a completely clean energy source – and who wouldn't be tempted to tap into something like that? Such a situation would certainly make it easy for Shinra to advocate for this energy source.

That being said, one could interpret the glow surrounding the stacks of mako reactors as some harmful material being released in the environment, as Starling did, which could explain air pollution. However, considering that hypothesis, if Midgar's pollution is related to the release of mako energy, then the Northern Crater (aka Promised Land) would be heavily polluted as well (I don't think that's the case).

Personally, I see the glow as a phenomenon occurring naturally elsewhere (FMV of Gaea's cliff), which I would explain by an ionization of the gases where the energy is released (phenomenon similar to auroras). However, that's drawing scientific interpretation from artistic license, which someone could perfectly call “bollocks”.

Click to expand...

I disagree that mako is only a solid in its natural state. show that naturally occurring mako can exist in liquid form, which is the state it's in when extracted from the ground. Judging by the way the terms lifestream, mako and spirit energy are used in relation to each-other, I'm under the impression mako primarily refers to the liquid and non-materia crystal state, mostly but not always when separated from the lifestream as a whole, whereas spirit energy refers to the gaseous state that is also referenced as playing a role in magic and limit breaks. Here are more examples of
Regarding the formation of materia, I've noticed that materia seems to form in conjunction with what appear to be almost as if the roots are what supply the mako. When I first saw the the unique appearance reminded me of the remains of huge, petrified trees, which was probably affected by the sight of all those roots near the fountain. Someone once suggested the high mako content in the region could've cause the mountains to be formed partly out of mako, which can crystallize into a number of shapes.

Here's Crisis Core's depiction of the for comparison. The exact color and clarity of mako seems to vary with depictions.

There's also reason to believe that mako is breathable, considering how people have been shown to survive extended periods of time submerged in it without some sort of breathing apparatus. The last example is the only one where the mako tank seems to be filled with a non liquid form, instead having wisps akin to usual depictions of the lifestream. The bars on the side might be radiating mako or something, considering they glow even when the tank is empty. That tank is in Deepground though, whose technology often differs from what others use. the tank when empty. The main reason I included that last example was because it seems relevant to the nuclear power comparison.

The issue with your magmatic resurgence idea is that most of the mako we see is probably within the temperature range humans can survive, considering how often we've seen people get directly exposed to it. That said, the mako inside reactors could easily be quite hot, considering the only people we see exposed to it die (Sephiroth, the people Deepground gathered and the guys in ).

Most things that glow and have something to do with magic in fiction seem to have some relation to plasma, ions and radiation. The easy route to figuring out how mako produces electricity would be that it's magic and powers things that way. Of course, that mostly just means it doesn't necessarily follow the laws of physics in regards to equal mass and such. The more in-depth way of looking at it would be to see which method of power production best fits with that universe's example while making allowances for its fictional nature. The way mako is processed is likely some hybrid between the methods for nuclear energy and fossil fuels, considering the mako in reactors is clearly liquid and managed more loosely than radioactive material should be.

A lot of people compare mako poisoning to radiation poisoning, though I find there are some important differences between them, due to the nature of mako in FF7's setting. Since mako is essentially made up of life energy and memories, it would make sense for its effects to follow that barring specification from canon. When people die in FF7, their life energy, thoughts and memories break down and return to the lifestream. What's shown of mako poisoning and the lifestream suggest this is what causes mako poisoning, as people aren't meant to end up there while still alive. The ones who stay comatose and never weak up have basically died while their body is still alive. In the case of the others, their minds are trying to find their way through all the memories back to consciousness. CC for some reason uses the term mako addiction but that terminology seems inaccurate and would better apply to Deepground troops, who are said to be physically dependent on mako, though the reason it occurs for them and none of the other mako enhanced individuals is unspecified. Another effect of mako exposure that's brought up is that it causes people's eyes to glow, which likely applies to anyone who's been exposed to a high enough amount, not just SOLDIER. Vincent, Cloud and Aerith's high magic stats, in context of mako's relation to magic and the lifestream, suggest that another effect is better magic.

A distinction isn't really made between raw mako and what Shinra uses for power so it's uncertain how much processing is involved, how it affects the mako or even if it gets processed to begin with. What we do know is that mako used for energy doesn't return to the lifestream, or is drained faster than can be replenished. The only distinctions canon seems to make involving mako is that there's the lifestream, negative lifestream and stagnant mako. Negative lifestream is the portion corrupted by Sephiroth, concentrating thoughts of hate and despair from those who die of Geostigma. Both regular and negative lifestream seem to be capable of creating living beings, the negative lifestream exhibiting this with the remnants and shadow creepers, while the planet seems to created weapons and possibly lifeforms in general in such a manner. Stagnant mako is mako that's been separated from the lifestream for an undetermined amount of time, no longer participating in the cycle of life. This somehow changes its properties and involves darkness, as both Chaos and Nero are tied to it. Stagnant mako can presumably return to the regular lifestream, as Chaos was returned to the planet. This shows that at the very least, mako's properties can be changed and that this affects its relation to the planet.

Regarding the waste product of mako when used for energy, it could possibly leave crystallized residue after a while but the bulk of it is likely in the form of a gas. If what Shinra does to it can change it enough to keep it from returning to the planet, then the resulting gas may be capable of causing smog.

Shinra being what it is, they probably came to use mako energy more because it produced energy more efficiently than because it would be considered cleaner than coal. In any case, most things would be cleaner than coal so it's not that much competition.

Mayo Master said:

Vehicle engines and pollution
Gasoline and diesel fuels are largely used in our vehicles to power their engines. In very large cities with very dense traffic, even if gasoline and diesel fuels have low sulfur and nitrogen contents, large concentrations of NOx and SOx may build up, giving rise to smog pollution. That's the primary cause of smog in developed countries (as I mentioned earlier, thermal power plants in developed countries have units to knock off NOx and SOx gases). Weather conditions have also a significant impact on the build up of smogs, as I described in my previous post on the topic. I have personally experienced very heavy smog conditions (Mexico City in a “sunny” winter day): it's very impressive.

Correspondingly, I see little reason why mako-powered engines would produce the typical smog ingredients (NOx and SOx). It's obviously very open to interpretation, but I would believe that mako-power engines would work using steam generation (just like in power plants). Now THAT would be very steampunk

Click to expand...

I've already brought up some stuff about the kind of waste combusting mako could cause in the earlier section, but another thing I'm wondering about is how nuclear power would apply to car engines and which method would best reflect the way mako is likely used to power cars. Steampunk can be a fun thing to play with. There's also dieselpunk and cyberpunk.

Mayo Master said:

Invisible pollution and visible non-pollution
At this point, there's one idea I would like to draw attention to: there's a general misconception that a type pollution is proportional to its visual impact. I'd say it's in human nature: we rely on our senses to get an appreciation of a situation. However, visual impact can be misleading. As I mentioned before, dangers of nuclear radiations are invisible. On the other hand, many people believe the air is polluted when they see clouds billowing over power plants, chemical plants, or in the wake of planes, while these clouds are very likely to be... just water. When a city is polluted by smog, there is actually very little visual difference with the same city shrouded in a haze of water droplets. The actual experience of being in a smog is special because of what you feel in comparison to a misty weather: you see a fog but the air is dry. In that respect, it is difficult to judge if the “Remake” rendition of Midgar describes a polluted environment, because we can't really know whether the haze is due to a weather phenomenon or a pollution by noxious gases.

Click to expand...

I think this one of the places fictional depictions break away from reality the most. Because of the need to offer visual shorthand for things so the audience will understand without needing an exposition dump every other time something new shows up, they make things glow, color code them, etc. When we see hazy gasses in a city described the way Midgar is, the intention is likely to convey smog rather than vapor. The air must still be relatively breathable though considering how many people probably live there. At least, on the upper plate, which likely has better healthcare for the people who end up getting sick because of it.

Mayo Master said:

The pollution in the Midgar slums
Reading Starling post on the topic, I think it's pretty spot on: the slums are very polluted because it's the dumpster of Midgar. Industrial wastes, sewage, water wastes, random trash, everything goes down to the slums. As far as the air pollution is concerned, with a bit more thinking, I would see 3 factors (some of them already mentioned by Starling):

• The air is extremely stagnant, mostly because of the Plate lying over the slums.
• With the presence of the Plate, I would believe very little water reaches the ground in the slums. Many environments in the slums have roads of packed dirt. In these circumstances, it is very easy to imagine an extremely dusty environment. The air may be simply polluted by very fine soil particles, which could actually lead to very harmful health conditions (silicosis). In that respect, the air does not need harmful gases to present a health hazard. However, this idea doesn't really hold given the screenshots of the remake Starling showed, where Midgar is hazy.
• If all the trash in Midgar ends up in the slums, it is very easy to imagine that the slums reek of the worst stench.

Click to expand...

At least the trash we see seems to be mostly scrap metal and such rather than organic matter that would decompose. The water near Aerith's house must reek somethng terrible, Cetra abilities that can make flowers grow in otherwise barren soil be damned.

Mayo Master said:

Closing comments
Starling mentioned about the Bhopal disaster – honestly I would not put that in the same category as smog pollution. While it was a case of air pollution strictly speaking, Bhopal disaster was an event which had a lot more in common with what happened at Chernobyl: a cascade of incidents compounded by negligence and incompetence, leading to the uncontrolled release of large amounts of deadly material which remained invisible to the people exposed to it.

In any case, there is considerable room for interpretation, and in this kind of situations fantasy authors are more concerned about artistic renditions and descriptions than actual scientific consistency (fantasy =/= Sci-Fi). Of course, I would prefer a fantasy world were established laws (including magic ones) remain coherent. I just hope I provided some interesting food for thoughts.

Click to expand...

When I mentioned the Bhopal disaster, it was more for reference of what was considered the worst case of air pollution and how not all air pollution was smog. I agree that it's a bit like radiation leaks, which since it reminded me of that when I found it.

The thing about story writing is that writing about an expansive setting means there will be a lot of things you don't necessarily know in enough detail or remember to account for when showing how things work within it. No matter how hard you try to maintain some internal consistency on things, there's bound to be a bunch of holes others will find. There's also deliberately ignoring realism in order to show cool things that can't exist in reality, like anything that runs on rule of cool (ACC physics anyone?). Artistic interpretations are perfectly fine as they have their own appeal to them that could be hindered by adhering to realism. I like toying around with stuff like various rules magic could operate on but in the event I write something using it even all the time I've put into it is bound to leave some stuff I wouldn't have considered but someone else would.

It DOES look like a flock of Whispers, doesn't it?