Sephiroth

Hey guys haven't been on a while again due to my two year old has decided he no longer likes to sleep so things have been pretty hectic here and while he's down for a nap, I have a question that's been bugging me for a while.

So after Sephiroth is thrown/jumps depending on the title and is in the lifestream. I know he gains the knowledge of the ancients and becomes more powerful. But how? I mean does this mean he doesn't need basic materia, like elementaral materia for example.

I am assuming once in the lifestream this is where he gets full control of Jenova and it's cells. As we don't see Sephiroth until the northern crater.

So basically what makes him more powerful than before dying. What did he gain over than knowledge once in the lifestream.

And if this makes no sense my apologies I have been living on red bull, no sleep, looking after a highly energetic two year old and juggling uni hope everyone is ok!

Part of the thing is that (At least according to New Canon) Sephiroth can't technically 'die". JENOVA cells warp the nature of a person's 'spirit', and prevents them from being spun back into the wheel of life. (Thank you Soul Reaver for that expression)
So Sephiroth just sits there like a fly in amber, gathering and controlling lifestream. Since it's a mass collective consciousness, and magic is just 'knowledge' that gives him access to all the information and power he needs to do 'certain' things.

The other angle here is that he can't really do anything on his own. He has to use his power over JENOVA to send out his dopple gangers, which all have relatively delicate lifespans. It's been my own theory that Sephiroth's been paving the way for Cloud the whole game, clearing obstacles that are impossible, like opening the cell door in the SHinRa lab, clearing out most of the security, killing the second Midgar Zolom, while leaving tests of strength like JENOVA monsters to make the party stronger. Everything has been about getting Cloud to the North Crater, because none of his clones have Cloud's potential, and also Sephiroth wanted the pleasure of breaking Cloud's mind afterwards.

So it's the actual Jenova cells that refuse to be diffused? As I always thought it was Sephiroth's sheer will that refused to become part of the lifestream?

And how exactly did it make him more powerful by gaining the knowledge of the lifestream? It certainly didn't increase his intelligence, he has plenty of opportunities to defeat Cloud but instead just toys with him and mocks Cloud and then gets defeated

Which leads me to the last part I have a hard time wrapping my head around that Sephiroth is the most powerful character in the FFVII world when a grunt (granted Cloud does become
a incredible warrior) has defeated Sephiroth like five times?

Harley Quinn said:

So it's the actual Jenova cells that refuse to be diffused? As I always thought it was Sephiroth's sheer will that refused to become part of the lifestream?

And how exactly did it make him more powerful by gaining the knowledge of the lifestream? It certainly didn't increase his intelligence, he has plenty of opportunities to defeat Cloud but instead just toys with him and mocks Cloud and then gets defeated

Which leads me to the last part I have a hard time wrapping my head around that Sephiroth is the most powerful character in the FFVII world when a grunt (granted Cloud does become
a incredible warrior) has defeated Sephiroth like five times?

Click to expand...

Magic is mental power catalyzed through materia. The materia translates the knowledge and will of the user into reality. Considering Sephiroth is encased in a giant hunk of materia, and has access to unlimited knowledge since the dawn of time, he has everything he needs to do what he needs to with the Black Materia.

As for Cloud? He's just got Chosen One syndrome. As of current canon, he's had unusual swordsman skill even as far back as BC being a cadet.

Thank you @ChipNoir. I know that about the materia my point is after travelling the lifestream does he need materia equipped to use it or could he just use fire without having the materia equipped?

And I'm guessing that how he became more powerful after the lifestream as he learnt his powers of illusions and controlling those that have J-cells.

Harley Quinn said:

Thank you @ChipNoir. I know that about the materia my point is after travelling the lifestream does he need materia equipped to use it or could he just use fire without having the materia equipped?

And I'm guessing that how he became more powerful after the lifestream as he learnt his powers of illusions and controlling those that have J-cells.

Click to expand...

Well, considering he needs the Black Materia in his immediate presence to use it, I imagine he can't use anything like that long range. Whatever the materia is that he's encased in, it clearly isn't the same as traditional ShinRa manufacture.

Isn't it in the canon that the Jenova's head that he took with him helped Sephiroth not diffuse into the Lifestream?

Harley Quinn said:

Thank you @ChipNoir. I know that about the materia my point is after travelling the lifestream does he need materia equipped to use it or could he just use fire without having the materia equipped?

Click to expand...

He's absorbed what essentially amounts to tons of materia in its purest form (raw Lifestream). That's straight magical power.

HQ said:

And I'm guessing that how he became more powerful after the lifestream as he learnt his powers of illusions and controlling those that have J-cells.

Click to expand...

That, and he's been soaking up raw power like a sponge.

hleV said:

Isn't it in the canon that the Jenova's head that he took with him helped Sephiroth not diffuse into the Lifestream?

Click to expand...

It's canon that having the head helped him take control of the Reunion. Since his body initially dissolved and had to be reconstructed, I'd chalk his first resurrection up to simple willpower (and a unique physiology that allowed his body to be reconstructed and inhabited once again).

ChipNoir said:

Part of the thing is that (At least according to New Canon) Sephiroth can't technically 'die". JENOVA cells warp the nature of a person's 'spirit', and prevents them from being spun back into the wheel of life. (Thank you Soul Reaver for that expression)
So Sephiroth just sits there like a fly in amber, gathering and controlling lifestream. Since it's a mass collective consciousness, and magic is just 'knowledge' that gives him access to all the information and power he needs to do 'certain' things.

The other angle here is that he can't really do anything on his own. He has to use his power over JENOVA to send out his dopple gangers, which all have relatively delicate lifespans. s.

Click to expand...

So does this mean that everyone in SOLDIER can't dissolve into the lifestream properly?

Have a metaphysical thumbs up for Soul Reaver reference.

Okay ya'll, so this isn't exactly on the topic of the Sephiroth question, and I may have asked this before, but...on the subject of Jenova's removed head...

I get that Seph takes the head, that it ends up in the Lifestream since he has it on him when he's THROWN into it (fuck that jumping noise). But my question is this: Jenova is alive (right?) inside the chamber in Nibelheim, but just essentially frozen in stasis. We see him in front of her, pulling off that creepy cover, etc. But the head-removal happens offscreen, as we just see him emerging holding it after the fight. Does this (incredibly powerful) creature remain frozen in statis as he decapitates it and leaves with the head, or what? It doesn't seem like an active Jenova would be so cooperative with the removal of its head. And then later, it seems clear that Jenova, or the parts of it, are active in ways they weren't while trapped in the chamber at Nibelheim. So...eh?

leadmyskeptic said:

Okay ya'll, so this isn't exactly on the topic of the Sephiroth question, and I may have asked this before, but...on the subject of Jenova's removed head...

I get that he takes the head, that it ends up in the Lifestream with him since he has it when is THROWN into it (fuck that jumping noise). But my question is this: Jenova is alive (right?) inside the chamber in Nibelheim, but just essentially frozen in stasis. We see him in front of her, pulling off that creepy cover, etc. But the head-removal happens offscreen, as we just see him emerging holding it after the fight. Does this (incredibly powerful) creature remain frozen in statis as he decapitates it and leaves with the head, or what? It doesn't seem like an active Jenova would be so cooperative with the removal of its head. And then later, it seems clear that Jenova, or the parts of it, are active in ways they weren't while trapped in the chamber at Nibelheim. So...eh?

Click to expand...

I don't think JENOVA is alive in the sense of being a cognitive being. According to history, at one point it could communicate, but we don't know the mechanics. We do know that even an arm or a leg can function on it's own, reproducing an entire JENOVA monster on command. It seems to be heavily inspired by John Carpenter's The Thing , where even the smallest group of cells have their own biological imperatives that it can act on. The head probably has the most cognitive ability if any.

Definitely inspired by the Thing (down to the crash-site, being mistaken for something it's not, studied by scientists who lose control of it...) so, good call on that. Still wondering why Jenova wouldn't have "defended" itself, unless we are to assume that it was in 'statis' or what have you, and only upon his removal of the head did it begin to awaken as the Jenova that participates in (and even gets an attributed line of dialogue in) the game proper.

leadmyskeptic said:

Definitely inspired by the Thing (down to the crash-site, being mistaken for something it's not, studied by scientists who lose control of it...) so, good call on that. Still wondering why Jenova wouldn't have "defended" itself, unless we are to assume that it was in 'statis' or what have you, and only upon his removal of the head did it begin to awaken as the Jenova that participates in (and even gets an attributed line of dialogue in) the game proper.

Click to expand...

Probably because it's essentially immortal. It has no reason to fear for it's life because it doesn't have a 'life'. It's more viral than living organism, designed to reproduce and destroy, and nothing else. Probably why it was sealed away rather than destroyed. The Cetra had no way of destroying it, so by some means they bound it in the earth where it couldn't harm anyone. That is until humans dug it up again.