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New FFVIIR screenshots from MAGIC 2017

Claymore

3x3 Eyes
Final or not, that's not a flaw you'll find anywhere in AAA production. You truly think having the character change buttons displayed next to command is a sensible thing to do especially given the minimal amount of work that would go into moving those elements a few inches up and put in the supplementary text "Character" or something to that effect?

Sensible or not doesn't come into the equation. The point is that it's not finalised, just like the previous screens had separate Magic and Summon selections, plus a less cleaner UI. Minimal work could have changed that before, but that's beside the point - they presented the menu as it was at the time.

Unless you want to present some form of evidence, I really don't see a point at this time in trying to argue if a certain button does something or not. Like I stated before, let's just see what comes when we get more gameplay footage with a finalised menu.
 

hian

Purist
Sensible or not doesn't come into the equation. The point is that it's not finalised, just like the previous screens had separate Magic and Summon selections, plus a less cleaner UI. Minimal work could have changed that before, but that's beside the point - they presented the menu as it was at the time.

Yes it does, unless you want to argue that every menu U.I comes together by slapping random bullshit on the screen until it starts to make sense.

Menus are designed with a purpose from the get-go. The fact that a menu isn't finished is not a piece of valid argumentation that supports a claim that we should expect menu items present at the current time to work completely counter-intuitively to what they appear to represent. I am telling you professional U.I designers would not design it that way, and that should matter to you whether the menu is finished or not, because a professional U.I designer would not design it that way period, which begs the question why it's there the way it is, unfinished or not.

When the older menu was the way it was - it was different yes - but it was still functional and made clear sense for what it was supposed to convey - as we should expect of every iteration of the menu they release - because menus are not designed at random. Designers don't put up stuff for no reason that are misleading and go - "well, I'll address that later, it's not finished yet after all".
That's the design-process of a four year old doing finger painting, not an industry professional with a degree in graphical design.

Unless you want to present some form of evidence,

Do I have to present evidence to express confidence? Or evidence that what I'm saying is true beyond doubt?

I don't think I have to do the former - and I'm not trying to do the latter.
I'm simply expressing confidence, on top of making a professional observation as well.

I will say that I have made the offer of authenticating my professional relationships at earlier dates though, and that offer still stands. As should be blatantly obvious though, is that I cannot evidence my reason for confidence for the same reason no-one else who knows anything of substance about the remake are running their mouths on public platforms.

That's why, as per my previous post, I apologized for having been an ass and speaking out of turn.

I really don't see a point at this time in trying to argue if a certain button does something or not.

You have an interesting way of not being interested then since you've been presenting arguments for two consecutive posts now, such as the first paragraph of this post.
Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Like I stated before, let's just see what comes when we get more gameplay footage with a finalised menu.

That's as true as it is patently obvious. Up until that point though, we're on a fan-forum talking about the game. We could probably just shut down the entire place with that statement, and put it back up once the game is released. Isn't part of the fun exchanging, and dare I say, debating ideas and information up until it releases?
 

Claymore

3x3 Eyes
Sensible or not doesn't come into the equation. The point is that it's not finalised, just like the previous screens had separate Magic and Summon selections, plus a less cleaner UI. Minimal work could have changed that before, but that's beside the point - they presented the menu as it was at the time.

Yes it does, unless you want to argue that every menu U.I comes together by slapping random bullshit on the screen until it starts to make sense.

Menus are designed with a purpose from the get-go. The fact that a menu isn't finished is not a piece of valid argumentation that supports a claim that we should expect menu items present at the current time to work completely counter-intuitively to what they appear to represent. I am telling you professional U.I designers would not design it that way, and that should matter to you whether the menu is finished or not, because a professional U.I designer would not design it that way period, which begs the question why it's there the way it is, unfinished or not.

When the older menu was the way it was - it was different yes - but it was still functional and made clear sense for what it was supposed to convey - as we should expect of every iteration of the menu they release - because menus are not designed at random. Designers don't put up stuff for no reason that are misleading and go - "well, I'll address that later, it's not finished yet after all".
That's the design-process of a four year old doing finger painting, not an industry professional with a degree in graphical design.

Unless you want to present some form of evidence,

Do I have to present evidence to express confidence? Or evidence that what I'm saying is true beyond doubt?

I don't think I have to do the former - and I'm not trying to do the latter.
I'm simply expressing confidence, on top of making a professional observation as well.

I will say that I have made the offer of authenticating my professional relationships at earlier dates though, and that offer still stands. As should be blatantly obvious though, is that I cannot evidence my reason for confidence for the same reason no-one else who knows anything of substance about the remake are running their mouths on public platforms.

That's why, as per my previous post, I apologized for having been an ass and speaking out of turn.

I really don't see a point at this time in trying to argue if a certain button does something or not.

You have an interesting way of not being interested then since you've been presenting arguments for two consecutive posts now, such as the first paragraph of this post.
Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Like I stated before, let's just see what comes when we get more gameplay footage with a finalised menu.

That's as true as it is patently obvious. Up until that point though, we're on a fan-forum talking about the game. We could probably just shut down the entire place with that statement, and put it back up once the game is released. Isn't part of the fun exchanging, and dare I say, debating ideas and information up until it releases?

I have no idea what youre on but im not going to engage with you with that tone.
 

hian

Purist
I have no idea what youre on but im not going to engage with you with that tone.

What tone would that be Clay? One equivalent to dismissing an innocuous argument by alluding to the person you're responding to being "on something", while tone-policing?
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Okay this argument is about the UI to an unfinished game. And yes, the fact that it is unfinished does make all the difference, because we know the UI could still change if the testers say it doesn't work.

Everyone chill :P
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I second the "Everyone chill."

For whatever it's worth, I personally trust and value hian's insight based on past developments (and hope that temporary self-exile is very short-lived indeed). Likewise, I recognize that for some folks, "part of the fun exchanging ideas" will include hanging onto hopes (about gameplay, story, etc.) for as long as possible.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I think they're the best floor tiles I've ever seen in any game. Just the best. Really. It's a shame about those crate things, they're very bland in comparison. But the Floor guy is really on the top of his game. But Crate guy is a clown - Sad! Zero credibility!
 

Pixel

The Pixie King
That bump mapping is like something from rendering software. It surprises me when I see stuff like that ingame.

I think most of my playthrough will just be looking around at pretty stuff. Can't wait to see the church. The scale was all off in Crisis Core.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
^To be fair the scale of the church was off even in the OG. Or at least the exterior was. But yeah I think CC and probably AC to some extent made it weirdly bigger inside.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
They seemed concerned with making any maps tight in Crisis Core. Most areas you could move in were pretty big (Shinra Manor basement, lookin at you). Areas that were only in cutscenes like the Nibelheim Reactor looked right.
 

hian

Purist
Most environments will have to be expanded by necessity. The full 3D action game-play demands expansions for most things - camera movement, character movement, in-field enemies and combat.
Having cramped environments in 3D action-based games is a nightmare for game-play.

We really don't want a game where you have to maneuver Cloud across a church roof-beam that's like, what? 40cms wide?
Or a game where you have to fight the guy on the giant swinging scythe in the cramped piano room of Shinra mansion.
Worst case scenario -
"OH! Would you look at that, the camera is fetched, I'm stuck in a chair, and the thing I'm fighting is wailing on me like no tomorrow and nobody is healing me because they're all out in the hallway! Thanks Nomura!"

And like Octo pointed out - the original had messed up geometry for the most part. Most buildings in FFVII had really weird and deformed looks to fit the short blocky characters.

Okay this argument is about the UI to an unfinished game. And yes, the fact that it is unfinished does make all the difference, because we know the UI could still change if the testers say it doesn't work.

Everyone chill :P

Not to harp on about this, but again, that is not thr argument. We're not discussing whether the U.I might change or in what way. We're discussing the U.I in terms of what it means as it is right now. Yes, for all we know, the U.I might radically change, especially based on focus-testing feedback. Indeed the very controller set-up might change going forward. Again though, the way it's designed right now, would be a clear sign of the L and R button relating to interacting with the command menu, such as scrolling commands, or command menu pages, not the characters.

Looking at that U.I thinking its for character change, makes about as much sense as looking at the target indicators on the floor, and the missiles in the air, and reaching the conclusion that the target indicators is for the guard scorpion's tail laser attack, not the missiles.
That too might change for all we know. Maybe the missile attack will get dumped. Maybe the target reticules will disappear or get redesigned. It's all besides the point though - the person who did that design, granted what's going on in the picture, will have made that design to best convey the systems as they are right now, and that will be true for U.I elements early in development as well as late in development.
It's not a random process, where you can simply say - "we can't tell what anything is for in this picture, because after all it's just a temp!"
A temp U.I is not the same as a random U.I or a misleading U.I.

Granted, it could just be horribly designed. I'm just saying, as an argument - The amount of U.I designers in AAA game development who'd screw up that badly is very, very, very low.

I second the "Everyone chill."

For whatever it's worth, I personally trust and value hian's insight based on past developments (and hope that temporary self-exile is very short-lived indeed). Likewise, I recognize that for some folks, "part of the fun exchanging ideas" will include hanging onto hopes (about gameplay, story, etc.) for as long as possible.

Don't worry. Just a few more months. I too respect and understand people's desires to hold on to specific ideas or opinion, or to just express them and not have people like me pounce on them.
I do think the onus for controlling communication at this level on a forum is the person being responded to, not the person responding though. Don't want to argue, don't argue.
I think there's a problem thinking you should be free to post an opinion, and then dictate the terms of replies, or whether or not people ought even reply, whilst replying with cart blanch in return.

I've shouldered my share of criticism on this forum as well, have also changed my opinions on topics, and accepted criticism as well - so I hope I've at least proven in the eyes of the regulars who're familiar with my posts that I'm not some impregnable wall of demon text, who just feeds off of scalpelling my way through other people's posts.
 
Last edited:

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
Most environments will have to be expanded by necessity. The full 3D action game-play demands expansions for most things - camera movement, character movement, in-field enemies and combat.
Having cramped environments in 3D action-based games is a nightmare for game-play.

We really don't want a game where you have to maneuver Cloud across a church roof-beam that's like, what? 40cms wide?
Or a game where you have to fight the guy on the giant swinging scythe in the cramped piano room of Shinra mansion.
Worst case scenario -
"OH! Would you look at that, the camera is fetched, I'm stuck in a chair, and the thing I'm fighting is wailing on me like no tomorrow and nobody is healing me because they're all out in the hallway! Thanks Nomura!"

And like Octo pointed out - the original had messed up geometry for the most part. Most buildings in FFVII had really weird and deformed looks to fit the short blocky characters.

Okay this argument is about the UI to an unfinished game. And yes, the fact that it is unfinished does make all the difference, because we know the UI could still change if the testers say it doesn't work.

Everyone chill :P

Not to harp on about this, but again, that is not thr argument. We're not discussing whether the U.I might change or in what way. We're discussing the U.I in terms of what it means as it is right now. Yes, for all we know, the U.I might radically change, especially based on focus-testing feedback. Indeed the very controller set-up might change going forward. Again though, the way it's designed right now, would be a clear sign of the L and R button relating to interacting with the command menu, such as scrolling commands, or command menu pages, not the characters.

Looking at that U.I thinking its for character change, makes about as much sense as looking at the target indicators on the floor, and the missiles in the air, and reaching the conclusion that the target indicators is for the guard scorpion's tail laser attack, not the missiles.
That too might change for all we know. Maybe the missile attack will get dumped. Maybe the target reticules will disappear or get redesigned. It's all besides the point though - the person who did that design, granted what's going on in the picture, will have made that design to best convey the systems as they are right now, and that will be true for U.I elements early in development as well as late in development.
It's not a random process, where you can simply say - "we can't tell what anything is for in this picture, because after all it's just a temp!"
A temp U.I is not the same as a random U.I or a misleading U.I.

Granted, it could just be horribly designed. I'm just saying, as an argument - The amount of U.I designers in AAA game development who'd screw up that badly is very, very, very low.

I second the "Everyone chill."

For whatever it's worth, I personally trust and value hian's insight based on past developments (and hope that temporary self-exile is very short-lived indeed). Likewise, I recognize that for some folks, "part of the fun exchanging ideas" will include hanging onto hopes (about gameplay, story, etc.) for as long as possible.

Don't worry. Just a few more months. I too respect and understand people's desires to hold on to specific ideas or opinion, or to just express them and not have people like me pounce on them.
I do think the onus for controlling communication at this level on a forum is the person being responded to, not the person responding though. Don't want to argue, don't argue.
I think there's a problem thinking you should be free to post an opinion, and then dictate the terms of replies, or whether or not people ought even reply, whilst replying with cart blanch in return.

I've shouldered my share of criticism on this forum as well, have also changed my opinions on topics, and accepted criticism as well - so I hope I've at least proven in the eyes of the regulars who're familiar with my posts that I'm not some impregnable wall of demon text, who just feeds off of scalpelling my way through other people's posts.

You're hardly a villain. I hail from the wastelands of Gamefaqs. You're a refreshing breeze of coherency by comparison.
 

President Shinra

The King Fetish
I really wish Square would've let Nomura show the trailer, but the fact that they care that much about it's perception is encouraging. Though, I could also see how it might be concerning that they weren't confident in showing it.
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
I really wish Square would've let Nomura show the trailer, but the fact that they care that much about it's perception is encouraging. Though, I could also see how it might be concerning that they weren't confident in showing it.

Might not be a matter of confidence - stuff like this is proprietary until they are absolutely sure they are going to project a project (gotta love english sometimes...) that looks healthy. In the world of game development, the slightest mis-step can lead to a massive backlash.
 

Lulcielid

Eyes of the Lord
AKA
Lulcy
Lack of polishness didn't prevent Square from showcasing FFXV in its various states of pre-gold builds throughtout 2015 and 2016.
 
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