Man, a big beef I have with this game are two things...

The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Mako Eyes said:
And well, I just figured Essai adn Sebastian were just shitty 1st class members, since SOLDIER was probably hurting for man power and thus promoted them to 1st recently. But alas, I was wrong and they're not, so :monster:
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No, you were right. This is just another case of SE failing to keep details straight that the fans easily can.

Hmm. "Case of"?

I'm feeling inspired. I have the first chapter ready for Nojima when he begins writing "On the Way to a Brick Shit: Case of Nomura":

Nojima should have said:
"Wash it all away. My past. Our past. And why not me too?" Those were Nomura's thoughts as he watched SE headquarters disappear an inch at a time -- absorbed into the Void.

The incalculable weight of all the contradictions that had been produced there lately had finally caught up with them. The space-time continuum could no longer handle the immense gravity produced by such an abuse of continuity -- of reality. Its density threatened to drag all existence into its vicious maw.

The very air itself surrounding those once proud halls had tore asunder, depositing the facility on the Interdimensional Rift's fast track to the Void. Enuo himself could not save it now.

"At least the world will be safe now," Nomura thought. "All of Tokyo may pass the threshold of the event horizon before the sinkhole collapses on itself, but ...."

He paused.

All of Tokyo? Had it really come to this? How? How did this happen?

Turning his back on the rapidly melting area, Nomura began making his way in the opposite direction -- not so much with a deliberate destination in mind as with a simple desire to get his thoughts away from the crisis he had played a role in triggering.

"How did it come to this?" he asked, directing the question at no one in particular. Had they even heard him, the hysterical civilians fleeing around him would have payed him no mind.

"Why is this ...?" He couldn't finish the question. Something like this was never supposed to happen.

He had set out with the best of intentions. When he agreed to helm the project that would become "Advent Children," he merely wanted to help out his coworkers and provide direction as they discovered the new heights to which they could take CG in the Final Fantasy series.

No ... that wasn't entirely true. There had been another reason. "I wanted to make a CG movie with more action." He couldn't deny the truth to himself. Not now. Not with these consequences.

But had that been so wrong? He knew a few continuity sacrifices would be necessary for the sake of progress, but that it could lead to this never occurred to him in his wildest dreams. "I just wanted to do something that would look cool!" he suddenly shouted, slamming his arms against the side of an adjacent building and hanging his head.

Had any of his colleagues been present, they would have reminded him that it wasn't really his fault. "Advent Children," after all, had been one of the better projects to come out the Compilation. It may not have been particularly friendly to those not yet acquainted with FFVII, but it was a great "reunion" for the fans.

Not the least of which because it actually remained consistent with the original work that had started it all. That another would choose to congest the road he'd paved never occurred to Nomura at the time.

Yes, had his colleagues not themselves been rushing to flee the core of the crisis they had all played a role in unleashing, they would have reminded Nomura of this.

As things stood, however, he could only blame himself. "I'm going to live," he mumbled incoherently. "I'll never be forgiven unless I do."

Turning his gaze to the encroaching Void, his thoughts once more turned to the start of all this.

He'd been sitting in the company lounge, watching "My Own Private Idaho," a film starring River Phoenix -- Nomura's visual inspiration for Squall Leonhart of "Final Fantasy VIII." Suddenly, Kitase entered the room with a notebook in his hand.

"This is our project," he said, raising the notebook. "What do you think?" He tossed the notebook onto the table in front of the now-puzzled Nomura. That was the day it started.

"That was the day I opened Pandora's Box," Nomura mumbled in the present. Had his guilt not been robbing him of his reason at that moment, Nomura would have remembered a different day, not long after. A day that Kitase walked into a meeting with a frightening gleam in his eye.

Had he been of his right mind, Nomura would have remembered. He would have recalled the figure he briefly thought he saw reflected in his mentor's eyes that day. A figure that belonged to no one in the room, but that was not one unknown to him.

Most of all, he would have remembered those chilling words that were the start of all their troubles: "I've got a great idea."
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Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Excuse me while I try to stop myself from laughing to death. :wackymonster:

That about sums it up. That should seriously go on the frontpage. Roffle XDD
 
Gym Leader Devil

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
Dude, by the time I got to the end of this I had totally forgotten what the original question was. It wasn't that long a discussion, so I must ask, which one of you sucked out my brain?

Hilarious, Tres. I am wiping tears from my eyes, that was some good satirical parody of OtWtaS right there. I call that Win.

Alright, the original point of this topic now. I too thought SOLDIER fought in small squads and units. I kinda saw them freely moving through a battlefield, using their superior strength and skill to support normal troops, allow injured grunts to be pulled out for treatment and evac, and such, while also spearheading drives into enemy fortifications and such. Missions to retrieve stolen gear or track down specific individuals... isn't that one of the things Turks are for? Seems like, if SOLDIER got this kind of mission, it would've been SOLDIER who came to collect Aerith rather than Tseng.

Still, members of SOLDIER are supposedly so far beyond a normal combatant that I suppose I could see them doing exactly what I described alone or in pairs. Still leaves no explanation for why, when you see dead SOLDIERs they tend to be piled on top of each other.

Anyway, I personally was shocked to see Zack so powerful. From the Nibelheim flashbacks (where Cloud was a stand-in for Zack) I kind of assumed Zack was a puny LV. 1 who couldn't put up a fight against a Nibel Dragon and would die if he got hit with a weak attack like "Lay Flat". And of course, the original shows only a handful of Shinra grunts blasting him to death, which just looks soooo damn weak. And then in Crisis Core we see him as a total badass, taking down whole forts alone, fighting and defeating Genesis and Angeal who were up there with Sephiroth himself in terms of power and skill (to be fair, skill is a little different when you shapeshift into a monster). He even holds his own against Sephy, though in the end he gets smashed out of the Jenova room just the same. Which annoyed me, cause I had a preconceived notion that Zack was kind of a weakling.

On the other hand, I must say one thing for CC that made me like it. Zack appeared so infrequently and with such brevity in FFVII itself that I never had time to get used to him. His puppy-like enthusiasm and personality just irritated me. In CC, on the other hand, I had time to get used to that side of him, and see him in a different atmosphere as well. And y'know, I found myself liking him enough to actually be sad when he died this time, instead of laughing when the grunts shot the hell out of him. I still have trouble putting "Weak as hell Zack" and "So badass it takes Sephiroth a whole battle to beat him Zack" together, but either way the game did let me get to know, and in knowing, like the guy.

Its still a continuity nightmare though.
 
The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
In fairness, you hear the sounds of battle off-screen in the original, so it was to be assumed even then that Zack fought more than just the three who killed him. I never had the impression that Zack was necessarily weaker than other SOLDIERs.

Of course, I also never had the impression from the original game that SOLDIERs were quite as far above ordinary people as they're presented in the new titles. Superhuman, sure, but, hell -- I can't be the only one who remembers that Cloud couldn't lift the debris off Cid in the rocket by himself.
 
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Gym Leader Devil

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
TresDias said:
In fairness, you hear the sounds of battle off-screen in the original, so it was to be assumed even then that Zack fought more than just the three who killed him. I never had the impression that Zack was necessarily weaker than other SOLDIERs.

Of course, I also never had the impression from the original game that SOLDIERs were quite as far above ordinary people as they're presented in the new titles. Superhuman, sure, but, hell -- I can't be the only one who remembers that Cloud couldn't lift the debris off Cid in the rocket by himself.
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Ok, good point. Zack is not, by far, the only one who looked significantly weaker when we saw him in FFVII than he did in later appearances.

Also, I always thought it hilarious that Cloud, whoever was in the party with him (was Tifa the first time for me, but face it they were all super-strong to some degree) AND Cid pushing from underneath couldn't even budge the debris, but somehow the addition of Shera of all people makes the difference.
 
Lord Noctis

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
TresDias said:
No, you were right. This is just another case of SE failing to keep details straight that the fans easily can.

Hmm. "Case of"?

I'm feeling inspired. I have the first chapter ready for Nojima when he begins writing "On the Way to a Brick Shit: Case of Nomura":
Click to expand...

Write more of this.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
The Twilight Mexican said:
No, you were right. This is just another case of SE failing to keep details straight that the fans easily can.

Hmm. "Case of"?

I'm feeling inspired. I have the first chapter ready for Nojima when he begins writing "On the Way to a Brick Shit: Case of Nomura":
Click to expand...

I just rediscovered this and demand a sequel. :monster:
 
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