The significance of LOVELESS

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demonwolf

Pro Adventurer
I know that the moment you say LOVELESS, you think Genesis, but he doesn't exist in the OG. Can anyone tell me if there was any other significance of LOVELESS in the OG besides a world-building detail? Did the verses exist in the OG or were they created with Genesis for him to recite?
 
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Ite

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
For some background, here's what we know from the OG (and the real world)

MD8_2a.png


Loveless was a grunge album by the band My Bloody Valentine (or MBV) that came out in the early 90s. It's actually a pretty decent album! The band broke up around the time that FFVII came out, and their front man went Brian-Wilson-levels-of-crazy, becoming an eccentric recluse. Not sure why the folks at Squaresoft decided to make an homage to it, or why they included a Les Mis style pauper in the "ad" for it, but my best guess is that they wanted to give Midgar a Western city feel, by blending concert posters and smash musicals. Also, MBV's story (at the time) was pretty grim, which fits with Midgar's style. Not sure what the significance of 6/25 is. June 25?

Later in FFVII, Cid alludes to the play:

Cid Highwind said:
You ever see the play 'LOVELESS'? ... Yeah, I figured someone like you wouldn't be much on plays. They've been doin' that play every summer since I was a kid. An' I remember seein' it just once... That was when I was in Midgar interviewing to be a pilot. I had some free time and thought I'd catch the play. Now, I'm no big fan of the theater or anything. But this thing put me to sleep, just like I thought it would. Finally during the last scene, the guy next to me woke me up tellin' me my snorin' was too loud. So about all I really remember of that play is the end... The sister of the lead asks her lover, Do you really have to leave? And the guy says, I promised. The people I love, are waiting. ......I don't understand. Not at all. But...... please take care of yourself. Of course... I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here. I remember thinking when I heard those lines, *&%! What the hell's he talkin' about? But, you know... now I'm not so sure... I think I understand......
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Anyway, here's the album.

 
Obsidian Fire

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
The way Cid describes it made it seem like one of those Shakespeare plays that gets put on ever year in a bunch of different styles/time periods. And Cid is the kind of person who doesn't go for that level of "culture". Like, what he describes feels a lot like what would happen if someone feel asleep during one of Shakespeare's History plays.

Genesis, on the other hand, has the type of background (rich parents) who would be introduced to that kind of stuff and actually like it. You have to at least give SE some credit for not completely making up something new, but instead using something from the OG at least. And for using something from the OG that's so vague that what Genesis says about Loveless doesn't contradict what we know about at least...
 
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demonwolf

Pro Adventurer
Yeah I was looking up the verses on the wiki and realized that you learn a little about LOVELESS from Cid of all people. Such an unlikely person to learn about a cultural play from.

I do agree that SE deserves credit for expanding on LOVELESS in CC rather seamlessly. However, Cid's erm...excerpt...doesn't seem to fit the general theme of the verses. How do I say, the actual verses are more detached compared to. But then he was half awake. Haha. And it was a play with actual actors and convos. He prolly cheapened the vernacular too.
 
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LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
LOVELESS is terrible poetry.

That said, I think we have to assume that there's a lot more to the play than the thirty lines or however many we hear in Crisis Core. A thirty line play wouldn't be long enough for even Cid to fall asleep in.
 
ForceStealer

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I've made this observation before, but I find it interesting that, for all the things Crisis Core played fast and loose with, Loveless' 3rd act didn't stray very far from Cid's description. It had fancier language, but it's the same the story.

Cid said:
So about all I really remember of that play is the end... The sister of the lead asks her lover, Do you really have to leave? And the guy says, I promised. The people I love, are waiting. ......I don't understand. Not at all. But...... please take care of yourself. Of course... I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here.
Click to expand...

Crisis Core said:
My friend, do you fly away now?
To a world that abhors you and I?
All that awaits you is a somber morrow
No matter where the winds may blow
My friend, your desire
Is the bringer of life, the gift of the goddess
Even if the morrow is barren of promises
Nothing shall forestall my return
Click to expand...


Which either means Cid was just dumbing it down because it was common conversation or, more likely, he saw a modern 'plain English' adaptation. That perhaps also skipped over all the goddess stuff. Which is actually fairly realistic. :monster:
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I'm pretty sure the Loveless lines Cid tells you are quoted almost verbatim in one of the mails you get in Crisis Core, from Kunsel I think.
 
Ryuman

Ryuman

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pointlessname, Pointer
My understanding of Loveless was that it was a play adapted from some poetry verse. Maybe over the years that's something I simply made up in my head.
 
Obsidian Fire

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Just had the thought that the "last line" mention by both Cid and the e-mail isn't actually the last line of the play. Genesis says the play is unfinished and the last act is missing...
 
C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
It's like a play by Sophocles or something, some Ancient fragmented text that's been translated dozens of times, and was never found in it's full text in the first place.

Hojo read it for research, and then realised he was reading the Cetra equivalent of the LTD.
 
Tennyo

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Ryuman said:
My understanding of Loveless was that it was a play adapted from some poetry verse. Maybe over the years that's something I simply made up in my head.
Click to expand...

I think this is correct. Loveless is an epic poem adapted for the stage.
 
looneymoon

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Loveless was a pretty rad album by My Bloody Valentine. The album was recorded in something like 20 different studios I'd I remember correctly. The picture in the OG is actually of vocalist Billinda Butcher. I got to see MBV live in Seattle a few years ago for their reunion tour where they played a lot from the Loveless album. The cool Easter egg that added to the grungy 90s aesthetic in FF7 was then turned into a stupid contrived plot device to poorly shoehorn a crappy JPop star into shitty cash-grabbing sequel games.
 
Octo

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I always imagined Loveless as some sort of Tennessee Williams sort of thing. At least from what Cid said in the OG. The compilation fuckin ruined it.
 
looneymoon

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Mr. Ite said:
I missed you girl <3
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This is funny because we live in the same city :wacky:

also, out of curiosity I looked up some of the lyrics to the actual songs. I've listened to the album to death (because of FF7 actually), but the musical style distorts the lyrics so I never really paid attention to them. Might be a coincidence, but there are a lot of lines about lovers leaving and coming back, which coincides with a lot that's going on in the plot of the game. I just picked apart some of the ones that sound FF7-y, even though I doubt any of it was intentional.

Cid FF7 said:
The sister of the lead asks her lover, Do you really have to leave? And the guy says, I promised. The people I love, are waiting. ......I don't understand. Not at all. But...... please take care of yourself. Of course... I'll come back to you. Even if you don't promise to wait. I'll return knowing that you'll be here. I remember thinking when I heard those lines, *&%! What the hell's he talkin' about? But, you know... now I'm not so sure... I think I understand......
Click to expand...

Aeris said:
I'll be going now. I'll come back when it's all over.
Click to expand...

What You Want said:
When you come down blue
But I do, I do, I do oh
I come back to the one who calls my name out
What you want let me know that I'm alive
Then I go back to you and then you make him go inside
Click to expand...

Loomer said:
Tiptoe down to the holy places
Where you going now, don't turn around
Click to expand...

When You Sleep said:
When I look at you
Oh, I don't know what's real
Once in a while
And you make me laugh
And I'll see you tomorrow
And it won't be long
Once in a while
Then you take me down
Then you walk away
Click to expand...
 
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