Lucrecia and Sephiroth:Tragic Mother and Son Story

jazzflower92

jazzflower92

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For the topic Lucrecia,she is kinda of polarizing for me because she seems to have lost her mind when she willingly experimented on her own son.I have a feeling if Sephiroth ever learned the truth about Lucrecia he would want nothing to do with her because frankly what kinda of mother chooses her selfish desires over the saftey of her son.I have a feeling that Sephiroth would even accuse Lucrecia of never truly loving him like Hojo and that she only regrets it because she can't escape her guilt.

And frankly this would also make him still see Jenova as his mother even though she is under his thumb.I also like to add that Sephiroth would see Lucrecia as a coward who didn't even fight to get him away from Shinra or a childhood from hell.He would say her apologies are just empty because she ran away instead of done what any other mother would have done for a child if he was in danger.Sephiroth would see Lucrecia unworthy to be his mother because she was a doormat that allowed her selfishness and wish washy personality to not even try to get him out of being Shinra's tool.

I think he would see her as being even worse than Hojo in a way because in all of this she could have had the choice but she allowed it to happen.She allowed all of this to happen even in the doubts she never stood up and fought to protect him.Yeah,I do think if they made another game that if he confronts Lucrecia he would defiantly tell her to her face how much she sucks as a mother and how even after Jenova is under his control she is still more of a mother than she will ever be.
Although People have made comparisons of Lucrecia and Vincent to Shalua and Selke,I think Lucrecia and Sephiroth actually fit the comparison better between the two sisters.Sephiroth like Selke was made and raised under an enviorment that was deviod of love or any affection and was exerpimented on in order to hone their skills.Shaula and Lucrecia were both scientists who were involved in the project that took their beloved family members away.I think Sephiroth would react the same like Selke because frankly after so many years of being devoid of love and losing people after another he would be deillusioned with the concept of motherly love.

 
Captain Jack Harkness

Captain Jack Harkness

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4nn4-chan, Loras Tyrell, Loki
i'll simply copypaste what CrimsonSun once wrote about Lucrecia
CrimsonSun about Lucrecia said:
I will try to keep this as brief as possible: What I love most about Lucrecia is the fact she’s a walking conflict of interests. Fans of Neon Genesis Evangelion might recall one Dr. Naoko Akagi, a brilliant mind who built three supercomputers designed to place the key aspects of herself - the scientist, the woman, and the mother - in competition, and that’s essentially how I see Lucrecia as well.
The scientist - an ambitious academic prodigy struggling with ridicule from the wider scientific community over a thesis she poured her heart and soul into. An intellectual who tried to suppress emotion with logic - who saw that her child would change the entire world forever if she could step back from her maternal instincts and him go.
The woman - grieving from the loss of a man who she saw, perhaps, as more than just a mentor, and tormented by his shadow everyday when she looked into the eyes of his son. She loved Vincent, but couldn’t stand to have him around. Then, there was the other one beside her who didn’t seem affected by anything, who didn’t seem to feel anything (besides the professional frustration she understood all too well) - and in her longing to be free of all the confusion and guilt of the Valentines’ love, she fell for Hojo as well.
The mother - plagued by doubt as the pregnancy advanced, growing more attached to the child who, despite the God he would supposedly become, was still going to be a little baby when he first arrived into the world. She had, perhaps, always believed she was doing the right thing by him, but the increasing complications both internally and externally forced her to question all her choices.
I think Lucrecia tried too hard to be too much, and ultimately it was her own good intentions that destroyed her. She lived through a very particular set of circumstances which meant the scientist, woman, and mother aspects of herself clashed spectacularly and simply could not coexist, and by the end a compromise wasn’t even possible. She couldn’t give up one aspect to save the others, so she had to give up on it all.
And that truly terrible internal struggle is why I love Lucrecia. I understand some people view her actions as unforgivable, and I’m not trying to justify what she did. But to say that she should’ve just, say, run off with Vincent and saved Sephiroth etc, would be grossly oversimplifying her character.
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jazzflower92

jazzflower92

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I shouldn't try to demonize her but the thing is Sephiroth at this point would not try to understand her point and just see her as just as bad as Hojo or even worse.

I am trying to convey what Sephiroth would see his mother as and how he will probably never accept her because of her decisions concerning him.She is sympathetic to us the audience but for Sephiroth she is beyond forgiveness and forfeited her right to be his mother.I am just saying I do see Sephiroth as he is right now doing that sorta of thing.

Yeah,there are times with Lucrecia I just want to Sephiroth to give her a big "the reason you suck" speech but on the other hand I just want her to be comforted from all the mistakes she has made.I think that is why she is a base breaker because there are things she has done that were not in good faith and she should have known better but the fact is she is still human and realizes she couldn't do everything.

Although even though I doubt Jenova can speak at all but she did it would be kinda of interesting if she was the one who was giving the speech instead.Basically I think Jenova would do it the same way as Sephiroth but in a even more crueler fashion.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

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It is definitely an interesting analysis of her character, Loki. The most interesting I have seen, in fact.

I don't think it redeems her at all, as we as humans tend to feel -- and rightly so -- that the side of her that would have said "You don't do this to a baby" should have won out over everything else, but it is cool to see the complete context of her mental/emotional diagram laid out.
 
jazzflower92

jazzflower92

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I think a term for such a character is jerkass woobie.Which is a character who you just want to punch and give them a hug at the same time.Which sums up Lucrecia's character in general.

However,I get the hint thoughout the series that Sephiroth has never learned about Lucrecia and always still refers to Jenova as his mother.Sephiroth might have Jenova under his control but she still in his twisted mind is the only parent he truly has.

But if he ever found out about Lucrecia I think he would actually disavow her of being his mother.For what can a being like him ever do with a mother who put science before her morals.In my opinion he would in a cruel manner say to Lucrecia that she is not that different from Hojo and say at least the man was honest about being amoral.
 
The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

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I expect that Sephiroth learned the truth about Lucrecia and simply didn't care about her. He learned what Jenova actually was, after all, and absorbed tons of knowledge from the Lifestream.

If anything, he would probably be grateful circumstances played out as they did. Lucrecia's decisions put Sephiroth in the position to become the superior being he believes he is.
 
jazzflower92

jazzflower92

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Hawkeye said:
I expect that Sephiroth learned the truth about Lucrecia and simply didn't care about her. He learned what Jenova actually was, after all, and absorbed tons of knowledge from the Lifestream.

If anything, he would probably be grateful circumstances played out as they did. Lucrecia's decisions put Sephiroth in the position to become the superior being he believes he is.
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With what is seen in the game it seems the only knowledge he seems to have gained is the fact that Jenova is not a cetra but a parasitic alien who went planet hopping.

He never mentions anything about Hojo or Lucrecia plus never hints at the fact they could be his parents.Heck,I think nothing in the compilation hints that he knows about his true parentage.I don't know how much he absorbed but I have a feeling he still doesn't konw everything about himself.Although with Hojo its understanable because of the fact he hates that man with the intensity of thousand suns.
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

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Sephiroth has transcended mere humanity and is indifferent to his biological parentage. As far as he is concerned, he created himself.
 
jazzflower92

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LicoriceAllsorts said:
Sephiroth has transcended mere humanity and is indifferent to his biological parentage. As far as he is concerned, he created himself.
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That actually makes sense and I have a feeling he would have developed a Black and Orange morality that is different from humanity.He at this point doesn't care about his human past and just sees to it to make himself more powerful or whatever goal the writers have in mind for him.

I know for one thing Sephiroth never has a consistent goal after he was pushed into the lifestream by Cloud.
 
Lex

Lex

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Yes he does? His consistent goal is to become one with the planet by destroying it, essentially becoming a god.
 
The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

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What Licorice said, basically. You have to remember, Sephiroth rejected the human aspects of himself and chose to be Jenova's son instead. He believes humans are inferior beings.

He knows Jenova isn't his mother. So, he either knows who his human parents were or didn't care enough to find out. If he had wanted to know, he easily could have learned.
 
jazzflower92

jazzflower92

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Hawkeye said:
What Licorice said, basically. You have to remember, Sephiroth rejected the human aspects of himself and chose to be Jenova's son instead. He believes humans are inferior beings.

He knows Jenova isn't his mother. So, he either knows who his human parents were or didn't care enough to find out. If he had wanted to know, he easily could have learned.
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I pick the latter because I have a feeling that Sephiroth probably would have tried when he had gotten back to the land of the living was kill Hojo instead of President Shirna.

I have a feeling it would have been fun to see Sephiroth face off against Hojo if Hojo did manage to take control of Omega.

Which brings up an interesting point why did he not kill Hojo when he had the chance.I mean I would have done it if I was Sephiroth.And with Hojo out of the way that means that the Tsviets would rebel under his command and Hojo wouldn't power up Sephiroth as he was trying to destroy the world.
 
PhantomSephiroth

PhantomSephiroth

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That damn sephiroth woman
You gotta remember that most elements of FFVII are symbolic. The whole Sephiroth/Lucrecia story is meant to emphasize the perverse nature of Sephiroth's creation.
 
jazzflower92

jazzflower92

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Yeah,I keep on forgetting this game is also the Neon Evangelion Genesis of the RPG gaming world.To be truthful I always in my mind think Sephiroth is a mix of both Asuka and Rei's complexes.Asuka when he was sane and Rei when he turned evil.
 
Obsidian Fire

Obsidian Fire

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For me, Lucreica's saving grace is that she realized she messed up and then tried to fix it in the limited way available to her (saving Vincent). While Hojo would do the same thing if he could do it over, she definitely wouldn't.

What would be interesting to see is how Sephrioth would react to finding out about her before the Nibelheim incident.
 
jazzflower92

jazzflower92

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Obsidian Fire said:
For me, Lucreica's saving grace is that she realized she messed up and then tried to fix it in the limited way available to her (saving Vincent). While Hojo would do the same thing if he could do it over, she definitely wouldn't.

What would be interesting to see is how Sephrioth would react to finding out about her before the Nibelheim incident.
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It would have probably been a big tear jerker moment for Sephiroth and showed how messed up inside he was.Frankly I think Hojo messed up Sephiroth on purpose just so he could eventually become the crazy villain he is today.Messing up your own child on purpose is just despicable in my book and the fact he has no regrets about it really chills me.Plus it shows people like Hojo shouldn't be parents at all because sociopaths don't love anyone but are quite keen on using people for their own means.

I think there is one aspect of Hojo that really makes him scary as a villain is the fact that there is a sorta of realism in him.I mean there are sociopathic people like Hojo who will use any means in order fufill their sick fantasies and the fact that there have been sociopathic scientists over the decades take for example the horrors of the Nazi scientist exerpirments then you will see Hojo would fit right in with them.

Also Hojo's role as a parent frightens me as well.Because you know that there are parents that put that obessesion with their child being the perfect being.I have a feeling that this is where Sephiroth's god complex and egotism came from the fact that he always was striving to be a perfect person and never had a chance to be normal.Just imagine for a moment a child drilled in from that age to be always the best and never show any weaknesses.
 
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