Shademp
420
Whether it be in a remake of any existing title, or in a post-DoC title, how do you want to see the Limit Break system evolve? The aesthetics of limit breaks (colors of spirit energy emission, flashing of limit bars etc) may also be discussed.
Agreements/Disagreements with any of the above? What are your own ideas?
The way Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus handled Limit Breaks was not to my liking. The former was more like "Random Breaks", albeit they had the proper aesthetic by having Zack glow. DoC with Vincent using an item to enter limit break is also too far-removed from the "build your limit bar via damage" mechanic from the original game.
The basic concept that should always remain with Limit Breaks, in my opinion, is that the character must receive damage or block the resistance of an enemy in order for Limit Breaks to be made available.
That said, I do not think that FFX's Overdrive system should be copied. FFX's system can sometimes diverge from the "no pain, no gain" idea that I think should always be the centre of FFVII's limit break system. I also think it important that both visually and design-wise for FFVII to retain its own identity separate from FFX even though they take place in the same universe.
The basic concept that should always remain with Limit Breaks, in my opinion, is that the character must receive damage or block the resistance of an enemy in order for Limit Breaks to be made available.
That said, I do not think that FFX's Overdrive system should be copied. FFX's system can sometimes diverge from the "no pain, no gain" idea that I think should always be the centre of FFVII's limit break system. I also think it important that both visually and design-wise for FFVII to retain its own identity separate from FFX even though they take place in the same universe.
To be more detailed, let me cross over the Overdrive Modes from FFX that I do not think belongs in an FFVII remake or post-DoC title. (Overdrive Modes info from FFwikia)
Stoic - By taking damage from an enemy
Warrior - By damaging an enemy
Healer - By healing an ally
Comrade - When an ally (or both) takes damage by an enemy
Slayer - By the character killing an enemy
Victor - By winning a battle while being an active, front line fighter
Tactician - By inflicting the enemy with any negative status ailment[/S]
Hero - By defeating an enemy with high HP
Ally - By the character getting a turn
Daredevil - By a character getting a turn while in Critical status
Loner - By getting a turn while being the only one able to battle
Coward - By running away (escaping) from battle
Dancer - By evading an enemy attack
Rook - By reducing or otherwise nullifying an enemies attack
Victim - By the enemy inflicting status effects on the character
Sufferer - By the character getting a turn while inflicted by Silence, Sleep, Doom, Darkness, Slow, Poison, Zombie or Confuse
Avenger - By an enemy KO'ing an ally
Some of the crossed-over modes, like the status-based ones, can be argued to follow the "limit-break-via-pain" idea, but I think limit breaks should be more associated with physical attacks than status-based ones.
I do think however that "team spirit" could be nicely expressed by having Character A's limit bar raised by Character B receiving damage. Perhaps it could be a setting in a menu (or a permanent setting, I dunno) that when a pair like Cloud and Tifa are together, they build their respective limit bars faster. That's why I think the Comrade and Avenger modes from FFX would work for FFVII's advantage.
In Advent Children, Cloud faces a lot of "resistance" from the foes; he blocks their attacks and afterwards is able to execute limit breaks. While I don't think the movie intended any causation between his receiving damage or blocking attacks and his ability to perform limit breaks, the movie makes me think that blocking (whether 100% or only partially) could fit in an updated Limit Break mechanic.
Stoic - By taking damage from an enemy
Comrade - When an ally (or both) takes damage by an enemy
Daredevil - By a character getting a turn while in Critical status
Rook - By reducing or otherwise nullifying an enemies attack
Avenger - By an enemy KO'ing an ally
Some of the crossed-over modes, like the status-based ones, can be argued to follow the "limit-break-via-pain" idea, but I think limit breaks should be more associated with physical attacks than status-based ones.
I do think however that "team spirit" could be nicely expressed by having Character A's limit bar raised by Character B receiving damage. Perhaps it could be a setting in a menu (or a permanent setting, I dunno) that when a pair like Cloud and Tifa are together, they build their respective limit bars faster. That's why I think the Comrade and Avenger modes from FFX would work for FFVII's advantage.
In Advent Children, Cloud faces a lot of "resistance" from the foes; he blocks their attacks and afterwards is able to execute limit breaks. While I don't think the movie intended any causation between his receiving damage or blocking attacks and his ability to perform limit breaks, the movie makes me think that blocking (whether 100% or only partially) could fit in an updated Limit Break mechanic.
Many of us dream that one day an RPG title might finish the Compilation's story. I think it makes sense, in the spirit of tribute, that such a title's limit break system should be the most similar to OG's, albeit with some differences to spice things up. The ideas below are not specific to either a remake or a post-DoC game.
- Enemies, bosses in particular, setting limit bars back to zero. This could be a punishment for those who enter a boss battle with all limit bars filled, only to immediately be told "NO U" by said boss.
- Enemies using limit breaks. This was already done to some extent in the Dirge of Cerberus Extra Missions and in Crisis Core, but I think there can be added strategy depth by having attacks that lower the build of an enemy's limit bar. I do not think that enemies should enter long-lasting Overdrive modes like they did in FFX-2 though, as this "extended" limit break period does not fit the "brief and explosive" aesthetic of FFVII's limit breaks.
- Multiple limit bar levels. Use Limit Lv1, or build it to Limit Lv2 to execute a stronger limit break.
- When HP is critical (color is yellow) having the option to exchange MP for an increase in the Limit Bar. The reasoning here being that both MP and Limits are related to the character's Spirit Energy and so instead of focusing on magic, the character relays that to Limit Break usage.
- The previously mentioned "rage-when-a-friend-is-injured" build-up of limit bars. Admittedly this breaks from the "no-pain-no-gain" philosophy when it comes to limit breaks, but if the mechanics can establish a stronger bond between the characters then I'm all for it.
- Dual or Triple limit breaks. I think everybody here has at some point dreamed of having Chrono Trigger's Dual Tech and Triple Tech system used in an FFVII context. What I worry about are the possible design flaws. Often in Chrono Trigger, I found that it was more damage-effective to use two individual attacks, rather than their combined Dual Tech attack. Other than being Dual/Triple limit breaks beings a cool thing, I also think it should have some depth with bonuses/penalties.
- Enemies, bosses in particular, setting limit bars back to zero. This could be a punishment for those who enter a boss battle with all limit bars filled, only to immediately be told "NO U" by said boss.
- Enemies using limit breaks. This was already done to some extent in the Dirge of Cerberus Extra Missions and in Crisis Core, but I think there can be added strategy depth by having attacks that lower the build of an enemy's limit bar. I do not think that enemies should enter long-lasting Overdrive modes like they did in FFX-2 though, as this "extended" limit break period does not fit the "brief and explosive" aesthetic of FFVII's limit breaks.
- Multiple limit bar levels. Use Limit Lv1, or build it to Limit Lv2 to execute a stronger limit break.
- When HP is critical (color is yellow) having the option to exchange MP for an increase in the Limit Bar. The reasoning here being that both MP and Limits are related to the character's Spirit Energy and so instead of focusing on magic, the character relays that to Limit Break usage.
- The previously mentioned "rage-when-a-friend-is-injured" build-up of limit bars. Admittedly this breaks from the "no-pain-no-gain" philosophy when it comes to limit breaks, but if the mechanics can establish a stronger bond between the characters then I'm all for it.
- Dual or Triple limit breaks. I think everybody here has at some point dreamed of having Chrono Trigger's Dual Tech and Triple Tech system used in an FFVII context. What I worry about are the possible design flaws. Often in Chrono Trigger, I found that it was more damage-effective to use two individual attacks, rather than their combined Dual Tech attack. Other than being Dual/Triple limit breaks beings a cool thing, I also think it should have some depth with bonuses/penalties.
Agreements/Disagreements with any of the above? What are your own ideas?
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