Hojo and the Silver Elite

jazzflower92 · Sep 21, 2013

In Crisis Core it points to the fact that Chairwoman H is actually Hojo and oversees the fan club, the Silver Elites. Some might see this that he really does have some sort of affection for his son. While on the other hand one can say this is just another example of him treating Sephiroth as a priced experiment to gawk and really seems exploitive for a parent to do. Also the information he gives out to the club is an invasion of his son's privacy.

Ozarkas · Oct 17, 2013

In order to join the silver elite, one has to know what Sephiroth has named his attack, sword, and that he is left handed. The club mentions Sephiroth's shampoo secrets, his hang outs in the training room with his friends, and offers rare photos of him. First of all, why would Hojo care about such insignificant things like his prized specimen's social life and bathing habits? Wouldn't a normal father boast about his son in other ways? That's more than "that's my boy!" And those things are certainly not connected to his value as a specimen because those things are not scientific or about his power. That means that Hojo actually keeps photos of Sephiroth in his possession, and in order to know his shampoo habits, must either have access to his financial purchases and sees that he buys multiple bottles of both shampoo and conditioner multiple times a week, or has cameras set up in his bathroom and watches him every time he bathes (which I don't think Hojo has time for). And the part about Sephiroth playing the dumb apple game with Angeal and Genesis in the soldier training room? Who even has access to place to know that? Hojo. He must have watched old recordings of their interactions. Is such a silly game related to scientific observation? No. To me it seems creepy and sweet, to think Hojo was interested in the little, personal things about Sephiroth. He certainly did not pay that kind of attention to Red or Aerith.

It's typical for celebrities to have stalkers, I see stories on the news sometimes. They have their privacy invaded with the intent to harm or scare the victim. Hojo certainly didn't seem to have that in mind. I think that because Specimen S was his child, he felt attached to him more than he did to his various other specimens. He did not want closeness or intimacy with anyone because he was afraid of being vulnerable and wanted to be the scientist who studies. I think he felt proud that this awesome man was his child. This tall, muscular, decent looking super powerful warrior and he was the typical loner eccentric quiet quirky scrawny four eyed awkward geeky misfit. He probably got all giddy inside thinking " I can't believe I fathered this man!" I think it's almost affectionate in a weird creepy way, but yes it is an invasion of privacy and his ego might be involved. Who knows what other personal things he knew about Sephiroth but never talked about. After all, Hojo is the only one who saw Sephiroth before he was perfect. He held the crying infant, witnessed Sephiroth learn to walk and talk, etc.

jazzflower92 · Oct 17, 2013

Ozarkas said:
In order to join the silver elite, one has to know what Sephiroth has named his attack, sword, and that he is left handed. The club mentions Sephiroth's shampoo secrets, his hang outs in the training room with his friends, and offers rare photos of him. First of all, why would Hojo care about such insignificant things like his prized specimen's social life and bathing habits? Wouldn't a normal father boast about his son in other ways? That's more than "that's my boy!" And those things are certainly not connected to his value as a specimen because those things are not scientific or about his power. That means that Hojo actually keeps photos of Sephiroth in his possession, and in order to know his shampoo habits, must either have access to his financial purchases and sees that he buys multiple bottles of both shampoo and conditioner multiple times a week, or has cameras set up in his bathroom and watches him every time he bathes (which I don't think Hojo has time for). And the part about Sephiroth playing the dumb apple game with Angeal and Genesis in the soldier training room? Who even has access to place to know that? Hojo. He must have watched old recordings of their interactions. Is such a silly game related to scientific observation? No. To me it seems creepy and sweet, to think Hojo was interested in the little, personal things about Sephiroth. He certainly did not pay that kind of attention to Red or Aerith.

It's typical for celebrities to have stalkers, I see stories on the news sometimes. They have their privacy invaded with the intent to harm or scare the victim. Hojo certainly didn't seem to have that in mind. I think that because Specimen S was his child, he felt attached to him more than he did to his various other specimens. He did not want closeness or intimacy with anyone because he was afraid of being vulnerable and wanted to be the scientist who studies. I think he felt proud that this awesome man was his child. This tall, muscular, decent looking super powerful warrior and he was the typical loner eccentric quiet quirky scrawny four eyed awkward geeky misfit. He probably got all giddy inside thinking " I can't believe I fathered this man!" I think it's almost affectionate in a weird creepy way, but yes it is an invasion of privacy and his ego might be involved. Who knows what other personal things he knew about Sephiroth but never talked about. After all, Hojo is the only one who saw Sephiroth before he was perfect. He held the crying infant, witnessed Sephiroth learn to walk and talk, etc.

Because this is Hojo we are talking about everything has to be related to something that is out of boundaries of decency. Also not to mention Hojo was the one who did not tell his own son he was his father or tell the truth about who his mother was. I think its more like an animal tamer who takes good pride in his trained beast rather than a father taking pride in his own child. Sorry, but everything in the games show and point to the fact that he thinks of his own son as an experiment that he feels he needs to exploit for his own purposes.

The Twilight Mexican · Oct 17, 2013

The thing that most points to Hojo's lack of genuine affection for Sephiroth is what he says in Nibelheim in Before Crisis and Last Order. His son has just been confirmed dead and his reaction is, "Sephiroth, you've sure done it this time." Then he examines Cloud, remarks how interesting it is that this is the guy who managed to fight Sephiroth and win, and then orders him taken to the mansion for research.

No sadness. A wry comment on Sephiroth making a mess. And curiosity at a new toy to experiment with. That's it.

jazzflower92 · Oct 17, 2013

Hawkeye said:
The thing that most points to Hojo's lack of genuine affection for Sephiroth is what he says in Nibelheim in Before Crisis and Last Order. His son has just been confirmed dead and his reaction is, "Sephiroth, you've sure done it this time." Then he examines Cloud, remarks how interesting it is that this is the guy who managed to fight Sephiroth and win, and then orders him taken to the mansion for research.

No sadness. A wry comment on Sephiroth making a mess. And curiosity at a new toy to experiment with. That's it.

In that scene Hojo really cares more about what consequences his son/prized creation has made. One definite thing that also shows how lack of any emotional attachment to Sephiroth is the fact in most games with a bad guy they sometimes will go after those who managed to defeat their offspring. But Hojo he never holds anything against Cloud for defeating his son. He only really upset about Cloud being a failure in his eyes.

Obsidian Fire · Oct 17, 2013

It's more like Hojo's berating himself for thinking Cloud was a failure (which Cloud wasn't actually) when Cloud is superior to Sephrioth. He's mad at himself that he glossed over something that he shouldn't have. It's got nothing to do with what he feels about Cloud.

jazzflower92 · Oct 17, 2013

Obsidian Fire said:
It's more like Hojo's berating himself for thinking Cloud was a failure (which Cloud wasn't actually) when Cloud is superior to Sephrioth. He's mad at himself that he glossed over something that he shouldn't have. It's got nothing to do with what he feels about Cloud.

You got a point there.

I have a theory that maybe Hojo made the Silver Elite is to fuel a personality cult surrounding his son. Another one is that Hojo is just eager to exploit his own child because he is Sephiroth's creator and father thus can do anything he wants with him which extends to invading his privacy. Also Hojo could be using this information on the sideline to study his own son like a wild life specimen.

With that in mind I wonder if Hojo has tiny cameras and microphones hidden around Shinra so he can monitor his own son.

Ozarkas · Oct 17, 2013

jazzflower92 said:
In that scene Hojo really cares more about what consequences his son/prized creation has made. One definite thing that also shows how lack of any emotional attachment to Sephiroth is the fact in most games with a bad guy they sometimes will go after those who managed to defeat their offspring. But Hojo he never holds anything against Cloud for defeating his son. He only really upset about Cloud being a failure in his eyes.

Then why would Hojo write that last silver elite letter saying that "Sephiroth will never die! As long as I live, so will he!" Right when Zack escapes? As for Sephiroth's death, I think Hojo had appearances to keep up and couldn't just break down and sob? Not saying he wanted to. He has to project to the world that he is this big, bad scientist meanwhile he looked depressed and slouched over. He has a pitiful, broken walk and we also have to remember that Sephiroth hates him and looks down on him. Hojo mentions it perhaps because it bothers him? Did he seem at all concerned that his other specimens disliked him? No. If Sephiroth was not so mean and arrogant towards him, maybe he would have shown more affection to him? He really is a pitiful sight to see. He looks so depressed and broken, especially in Crisis Core. Slouched, unconfident posture, and his lazy walk when Zack visits him. The guy was clearly unwell and suffering with low self-esteem and wanted so badly to prove the existence of a greater power.

Ozarkas · Oct 17, 2013

Obsidian Fire said:
It's more like Hojo's berating himself for thinking Cloud was a failure (which Cloud wasn't actually) when Cloud is superior to Sephrioth. He's mad at himself that he glossed over something that he shouldn't have. It's got nothing to do with what he feels about Cloud.

Cloud is not superior to Sephiroth. The point of that project was to inject Jenova cells into the survivors with the hope that they will lead him to Sephiroth. It wasn't to create new, stronger soldiers at all.

jazzflower92 · Oct 17, 2013

Ozarkas said:
Then why would Hojo write that last silver elite letter saying that "Sephiroth will never die! As long as I live, so will he!" Right when Zack escapes? As for Sephiroth's death, I think Hojo had appearances to keep up and couldn't just break down and sob? Not saying he wanted to. He has to project to the world that he is this big, bad scientist meanwhile he looked depressed and slouched over. He has a pitiful, broken walk and we also have to remember that Sephiroth hates him and looks down on him. Hojo mentions it perhaps because it bothers him? Did he seem at all concerned that his other specimens disliked him? No. If Sephiroth was not so mean and arrogant towards him, maybe he would have shown more affection to him? He really is a pitiful sight to see. He looks so depressed and broken, especially in Crisis Core. Slouched, unconfident posture, and his lazy walk when Zack visits him. The guy was clearly unwell and suffering with low self-esteem and wanted so badly to prove the existence of a greater power.

I think that's a really inaccurate alternative interpretation which strips away the fact personality wise Hojo is a horrible human being who is cruel, depraved, crosses moral lines any times he gets, and treats other humans as they are test subjects waiting to be experimented on. He has never shown to have a softer side or shown any hint of being humane to another being.

The fact that he never let Lucrecia to hold Sephiroth at birth can really signal what a cold parent he is. Anyway if his son looks down on him then it probably is for a justifiable reason because if you are around someone who is a horrible person then you wouldn't grow a high opinion of them. We don't know how Sephiroth was raised but by what he got there are clues that Hojo might have been a constant figure in his young life. Sephiroth views him as an inferior scientist to Gast and tells Zack not to really care about Hojo when the Genesis clones attack the Shinra building.

Also I think that letter could be seen as Hojo furthering exploiting his own son's death to keep up the personality cult. Its not actually a father grieving for his son but a creator who is still trying to milk his experiment for all its worth.

Ozarkas · Oct 17, 2013

jazzflower92 said:
You got a point there.

I have a theory that maybe Hojo made the Silver Elite is to fuel a personality cult surrounding his son. Another one is that Hojo is just eager to exploit his own child because he is Sephiroth's creator and father thus can do anything he wants with him which extends to invading his privacy. Also Hojo could be using this information on the sideline to study his own son like a wild life specimen.

With that in mind I wonder if Hojo has tiny cameras and microphones hidden around Shinra so he can monitor his own son.

Ooh, I like how you worded this. True, true. He probably keeps tabs on him in many ways, and watching training room recordings and security cameras? All for science of course. Lol. He could be Sephiroth's biggest fan for all we know, secretly longing for his respect. As for spying (or stalking him) that's his way of monitoring him on a personal level because he can't or doesn't want to get too close to him, or anyone for that matter. He was distant from everyone and even his wife and child, no friends, just a geeky loner scientist, the typical frustrated angry misunderstood nerd. Walking mass of complexes, indeed.

If the game designers were trying to portray him as a happy character, they didn't do a good job. Aren't mad scientists normally loud and brash? He's glum and quiet, and is a terrible scientist. He tried to breed two unrelated species, threw humans in tanks with mako and then called it science, he wanted Sephiroth to surpass science, he mentioned reading Loveless to aid his research, but claims it's drivel. But then in his missions, he asked if the hero was really dead which meant he still believed it. He gripes at child Sephiroth for using the term magic, he jokes about "Hollander's freak show" and in his missions, he remarked that Genesis had a few tricks up his sleeve. He never uses big fancy scientific terms, like ever. And what kind of scientist doesn't discect an alien lifeform? Come on! He didn't ever discect Jenova?

jazzflower92 · Oct 17, 2013

Ozarkas said:
Ooh, I like how you worded this. True, true. He probably keeps tabs on him in many ways, and watching training room recordings and security cameras? All for science of course. Lol. He could be Sephiroth's biggest fan for all we know, secretly longing for his respect. As for spying (or stalking him) that's his way of monitoring him on a personal level because he can't or doesn't want to get too close to him, or anyone for that matter. He was distant from everyone and even his wife and child, no friends, just a geeky loner scientist, the typical frustrated angry misunderstood nerd. Walking mass of complexes, indeed.

If the game designers were trying to portray him as a happy character, they didn't do a good job. Aren't mad scientists normally loud and brash? He's glum and quiet, and is a terrible scientist. He tried to breed two unrelated species, threw humans in tanks with mako and then called it science, he wanted Sephiroth to surpass science, he mentioned reading Loveless to aid his research, but claims it's drivel. But then in his missions, he asked if the hero was really dead which meant he still believed it. He gripes at child Sephiroth for using the term magic, he jokes about "Hollander's freak show" and in his missions, he remarked that Genesis had a few tricks up his sleeve. He never uses big fancy scientific terms, like ever. And what kind of scientist doesn't discect an alien lifeform? Come on! He didn't ever discect Jenova?

"frustrated angry misunderstood nerd" is not the best way to describe him. Homicidal sociopathic mad man who likes to pervert the scientific method for his sick pleasure would be more accurate. Also just because he looks sullen doesn't mean he is. Its more like to show how obviously evil he is. The short answer is there is no hidden heart of gold in Hojo and there probably never will be.

Roger · Oct 17, 2013

Ozarkas said:
Then why would Hojo write that last silver elite letter saying that "Sephiroth will never die! As long as I live, so will he!" Right when Zack escapes? As for Sephiroth's death, I think Hojo had appearances to keep up and couldn't just break down and sob? Not saying he wanted to. He has to project to the world that he is this big, bad scientist meanwhile he looked depressed and slouched over.

The reaction (him saying how interesting Cloud is), was only in front of one or two Shinra guards who were made to keep quiet (if they survived at all)

He has a pitiful, broken walk and we also have to remember that Sephiroth hates him and looks down on him. Hojo mentions it perhaps because it bothers him? Did he seem at all concerned that his other specimens disliked him? No. If Sephiroth was not so mean and arrogant towards him, maybe he would have shown more affection to him? He really is a pitiful sight to see. He looks so depressed and broken, especially in Crisis Core. Slouched, unconfident posture, and his lazy walk when Zack visits him. The guy was clearly unwell and suffering with low self-esteem and wanted so badly to prove the existence of a greater power.

Hojo remarks that Sephiroth doesn't like him once. I wouldn't call it concern or it bothering him. Sephiroth himself has similiar remarks about how Hojo would hate finding out about Cloud's success.

Ozarkas said:
Ooh, I like how you worded this. True, true. He probably keeps tabs on him in many ways, and watching training room recordings and security cameras? All for science of course. Lol. He could be Sephiroth's biggest fan for all we know, secretly longing for his respect. As for spying (or stalking him) that's his way of monitoring him on a personal level because he can't or doesn't want to get too close to him, or anyone for that matter. He was distant from everyone and even his wife and child, no friends, just a geeky loner scientist, the typical frustrated angry misunderstood nerd. Walking mass of complexes, indeed.

If the game designers were trying to portray him as a happy character, they didn't do a good job. Aren't mad scientists normally loud and brash? He's glum and quiet, and is a terrible scientist. He tried to breed two unrelated species, threw humans in tanks with mako and then called it science, he wanted Sephiroth to surpass science, he mentioned reading Loveless to aid his research, but claims it's drivel. But then in his missions, he asked if the hero was really dead which meant he still believed it. He gripes at child Sephiroth for using the term magic, he jokes about "Hollander's freak show" and in his missions, he remarked that Genesis had a few tricks up his sleeve. He never uses big fancy scientific terms, like ever. And what kind of scientist doesn't discect an alien lifeform? Come on! He didn't ever discect Jenova?

I don't think he ever married Lucretia. And Hojo was hardly quiet. He let out a big cackling laugh in most of his scenes.

The Twilight Mexican · Oct 17, 2013

She is referred to as his wife in the Ultimania Omega, so it seems they did marry.

Dawnbreaker · Oct 17, 2013

Oh I love UO, explaining things we asked for, and also didn't.

I don't see how having a cultish club created for Sephiroth indicates any kind of emotional attachment whatsover. That's odd thinking. You can easily be obsessed with something but feel little more than a mad desire of domination over them, ignoring their humanity completely. We are never given even a glimpse of a shred of decency from Hojo so I hardly see how we can interpet this in a favorable light.

Actually, when you think about what we know, and what we suspect, this makes the story even darker.

Ozarkas · Oct 17, 2013

jazzflower92 said:
"frustrated angry misunderstood nerd" is not the best way to describe him. Homicidal sociopathic mad man who likes to pervert the scientific method for his sick pleasure would be more accurate. Also just because he looks sullen doesn't mean he is. Its more like to show how obviously evil he is. The short answer is there is no hidden heart of gold in Hojo and there probably never will be.

I never said that the guy had a hidden heart of gold. Far from it. My point being is that he does not fit a lot of the criteria for psychopaths. I don't like DoC because the plot was ridiculous. They only brought Hojo back to show off other characters in new graphics.

I never said he was secretly a good guy. No way. But in the original, he just seemed desperate to prove the existence of a higher power. He did not throw Red and Aerith into the tank to torture them for pleasure, and he did not shoot Gast to be cruel and evil without reason. He wanted his specimens. He was not a mindless serial killer. He only shot Vincent because Vincent cornered him and in the original, he grabbed at his hair in frustration which meant that he was under pressure and perhaps it was the last straw. Forget DoC. That game sucked all around and made no sense, and was just made while people were still in the FFVII mood after AC.

Ozarkas · Oct 17, 2013

Dawnbreaker said:
Oh I love UO, explaining things we asked for, and also didn't.

I don't see how having a cultish club created for Sephiroth indicates any kind of emotional attachment whatsover. That's odd thinking. You can easily be obsessed with something but feel little more than a mad desire of domination over them, ignoring their humanity completely. We are never given even a glimpse of a shred of decency from Hojo so I hardly see how we can interpet this in a favorable light.

Actually, when you think about what we know, and what we suspect, this makes the story even darker.

I see. So you think Hojo only created a fan club for Sephiroth because he wanted to dominate and control him? As far as I can tell, Sephiroth never mentioned his fan club and was completely unaware of it. Unless Hojo believed that he was controlling Sephiroth behind the scenes, and had a twisted view that Sephiroth was just an extension of himself, a vessel for him to accomplish things that he personally could not accomplish (regarding his physical power and fame). Or he was just so amazed that this being was his child, his, and it made him giddy to see an offspring that he created accomplishing amazing things. Still though, his shampoo secrets? His social life? WHY? And why even bother saying "My son is in need of power and help. That is the only reason." Why not "I want to see the results of my research blossom. That's the only reason."

I wonder how Sephiroth's reaction would have been portrayed had the designers made a "I am your father scene" unfold between Hojo and him like in Star Wars. And also if Sephiroth found out about his fan club and decided to find out who this Chairwoman H is and how she knows so much stuff about him. Then the computer IP address gets traced back to a certain scientist or Sephiroth wonders who the Hell was stalking him since age 5 and who could possibly have access to the SOLDIER training room to know about the dumb apple game? Hahaha. He would have a major nervous breakdown, gripping his hair and totally being creeped out and losing it. Or would he be somehow flattered?

jazzflower92 · Oct 17, 2013

Ozarkas said:
I never said that the guy had a hidden heart of gold. Far from it. My point being is that he does not fit a lot of the criteria for psychopaths. I don't like DoC because the plot was ridiculous. They only brought Hojo back to show off other characters in new graphics.

I never said he was secretly a good guy. No way. But in the original, he just seemed desperate to prove the existence of a higher power. He did not throw Red and Aerith into the tank to torture them for pleasure, and he did not shoot Gast to be cruel and evil without reason. He wanted his specimens. He was not a mindless serial killer. He only shot Vincent because Vincent cornered him and in the original, he grabbed at his hair in frustration which meant that he was under pressure and perhaps it was the last straw. Forget DoC. That game sucked all around and made no sense, and was just made while people were still in the FFVII mood after AC.

Um, no he really comes off as a complete monster even in the original game. Actually killing Gast was cruel and evil because of the fact he was trying to get Infalna and Aerith for his own purposes. Not to mention Ifalna died from all the experimentation that was done to her.

Also it was also cruel for him to shoot Vincent because of the fact that Vincent only corned him because his experimentations on Lucrecia had negative effects on her. Not to mention he didn't give a hoot about what happened to her afterwards and took Sephiroth away from her the minute he was born.

Also remember he wanted to breed Aerith so he could use her to get to the Promised Land. Lets not forget he also had Red kidnapped to be used as a lab specimen.

Hojo might call Sephiroth his son but as the games show he has shown to have no right be called his father. He is more of a creator than a parent because no sane parent would have done the things he has done to his own flesh and blood. When someone injects and experiments on his own with a unknown substance without any ounce of worry what would happen then that person really is morally questionable. Another thing is the fact is Hojo only takes an interest in Sephiroth because he is successful and if he wasn't then he would have no qualms about throwing him away. Its more like a stage parent that exploits their child's talent for their own self gratification. That's not really sympathetic if one thinks about it.

Roger · Oct 17, 2013

Ozarkas said:
I never said that the guy had a hidden heart of gold. Far from it. My point being is that he does not fit a lot of the criteria for psychopaths. I don't like DoC because the plot was ridiculous. They only brought Hojo back to show off other characters in new graphics.

Doesn't he? Grandiose sense of self-worth? Check, just look at how he treats Hollander, Gast and anyone that challenges him in his field. Need for stimulation/proneness to Boredom? Check, just look at all his abandoned projects. Pathological liar, cunning, manipulative, lack of guilt, remorse, empathy. all checks. Shallow affection for others? That's putting it mildly. Poor behavioral control. Yeah. Short-term marital relationship, impulsive, irresponsible, lack of realistic longterm goals. Check, check, check.

I never said he was secretly a good guy. No way. But in the original, he just seemed desperate to prove the existence of a higher power. He did not throw Red and Aerith into the tank to torture them for pleasure, and he did not shoot Gast to be cruel and evil without reason. He wanted his specimens. He was not a mindless serial killer. He only shot Vincent because Vincent cornered him and in the original, he grabbed at his hair in frustration which meant that he was under pressure and perhaps it was the last straw. Forget DoC. That game sucked all around and made no sense, and was just made while people were still in the FFVII mood after AC.

What game were you playing? Hojo never had to prove the existence of these higher powers. The Shinra executives all believed in the Promised Land already. Cloud, our POV is doesn't care at the start of the game but he doesn't dismiss all Barret's claims about the Lifestream as false.

I hardly see how wanting specimens explains away his shooting of Gast. He had troops with him, Gast was an unarmed old man. He was helpless to stop them. And there was hardly any need to throw Aerith to a seemingly feral animal for her to birth offspring. If anything it's less productive then other obvious alternatives. As for Vincent he wasn't acting in selfdefense, Vincent just wanted answers and after shooting him Vincent survived but Hojo just experimented on him for a while and then left him in Shinra Mansion indefinitely.

jazzflower92 · Oct 17, 2013

That's where I really have problem with sympathetic interpretations of Hojo because all of them seem to stem from fandom than really anything in canon. I know some villains have hidden depths that make them more into relatable but Hojo has no characteristics that are actually positive and has shown he is at heart a monster who sees the planet as one big lab experiment to use at will. There is no sad backstory or past behavior that justifies his actions because he is someone who treats others like they are his playthings.

Hojo wasn't meant to be a deep character but a source of hate for the player. Each time he comes on screen and mentioned there is nothing good to say about him. In fact 90% of the all the bad stuff in the FF7 Compilation can be traced back to his meddling. He has ruined many lives in the name of science and never has a single bit of regret for it. Even at the end of his life Hojo isn't shown at all in a good light because at heart he still retains his destructive fascination with science. In the form of helping Sephiroth he is gleefully aiding his own child in destroying the world because his son is the embodiment of all his hard work come to bloom. That's not a sign of a loving parent but an insane creator who wants to his see his destructive creation do fatal damage.

The Twilight Mexican · Oct 18, 2013

Ozarkas said:
And why even bother saying "My son is in need of power and help. That is the only reason." Why not "I want to see the results of my research blossom. That's the only reason."

That is what he says, though. Cloud momentarily takes his intent for the same thing you did and says, "I can't believe you're doing this to atone to Sephiroth" (that "illusionary crime against Sephiroth" line was an odd mistranslation of this), to which Hojo replies "No, you're wrong! It's my desire as a scientist!"

The one time someone actually thought Hojo might be doing something for selfless reasons, he shot the notion down and corrected them.

Like jazz said, he was just trying to see his experiment out to its conclusion. That's why he tried to help Sephiroth.

jazzflower92 · Oct 18, 2013

Hawkeye said:
That is what he says, though. Cloud momentarily takes his intent for the same thing you did and says, "I can't believe you're doing this to atone to Sephiroth" (that "illusionary crime against Sephiroth" line was an odd mistranslation of this), to which Hojo replies "No, you're wrong! It's my desire as a scientist!"

The one time someone actually thought Hojo might be doing something for selfless reasons, he shot the notion down and corrected them.

Like jazz said, he was just trying to see his experiment out to its conclusion. That's why he tried to help Sephiroth.

That's why I am very skeptical that he made the Silver Elite for any selfless causes because of his actions in the previous games concerning Sephiroth. I think the fact that he created a fan club for his son since he was six comes off as creepy and an example of the way some stage parents will obsess over their child to unhealthy levels. Knowing that it probably shows how superficial his interest in Sephiroth really is. To him Sephiroth is a science project with years of molding and training. He really doesn't regard him as a person but a test subject to study, experiment, and perfect to his standards.

Now that I think of it that really is one of the darkest examples of a parental relationship I have ever seen. It would take a really messed up person to see their own kid's life like a science experiment and manipulate certain events just to see the what the outcome is.

Dawnbreaker · Oct 18, 2013

I see. So you think Hojo only created a fan club for Sephiroth because he wanted to dominate and control him? As far as I can tell, Sephiroth never mentioned his fan club and was completely unaware of it. Unless Hojo believed that he was controlling Sephiroth behind the scenes, and had a twisted view that Sephiroth was just an extension of himself, a vessel for him to accomplish things that he personally could not accomplish (regarding his physical power and fame). Or he was just so amazed that this being was his child, his, and it made him giddy to see an offspring that he created accomplishing amazing things. Still though, his shampoo secrets? His social life? WHY? And why even bother saying "My son is in need of power and help. That is the only reason." Why not "I want to see the results of my research blossom. That's the only reason."

Your question is answered in your own post (see what I bolded). Hojo didn't have to have an effect on Sephiroth with the 'club' in order to attempt to control him. Just because he failed in this particular attempt does not mean he wasn't trying. You need to really understand obsessive people, and how their minds work. Hojo was obsessed with Sephiroth, but not the way many people understand the word. He was obsessed with his son to the point of usage, and then, were Sephiroth not be of any more scientific use to him, would ignore him entirely (as others have already pointed out). Don't confuse morbid fascination with affection. It is the dark side of attachment, the bend between love and hate.

I wonder how Sephiroth's reaction would have been portrayed had the designers made a "I am your father scene" unfold between Hojo and him like in Star Wars. And also if Sephiroth found out about his fan club and decided to find out who this Chairwoman H is and how she knows so much stuff about him. Then the computer IP address gets traced back to a certain scientist or Sephiroth wonders who the Hell was stalking him since age 5 and who could possibly have access to the SOLDIER training room to know about the dumb apple game? Hahaha. He would have a major nervous breakdown, gripping his hair and totally being creeped out and losing it. Or would he be somehow flattered?

You obviously played the game, and you saw his reaction at 'learning' he was an Ancient (although this get subverted later in the game). He goes fucking apeshit. Learning that a man he didn't care for, and was considered subpar to Gast, is actually his father would probably not be a happy day for either father or son. I'd imagine it would end in bloodshed, with Hojo impaled on Masamune after explaining exactly how Sephiroth came to be (and how horribly he treated Sephiroth's real mother).

jazzflower92 · Oct 18, 2013

Although I do wonder how much Sephiroth paid attention to his fan club. I have a safe bet he might have been put off about how insane some of his fans were. He never really seems to enjoy his celebrity status and had a reclusive nature about himself.

So, since the fan club was created when he was six years old I have a feeling that Shinra was already starting his celebrity image when he was young. If that is the case then was he famous even before the Wutai War.

The Twilight Mexican · Oct 19, 2013

Who was it that said the club was started when he was six? I can't remember.

Hojo and the Silver Elite

Pro Adventurer

Rookie Adventurer

Pro Adventurer

Ex-SeeD-ingly good

Pro Adventurer

Ahk Morn!

Pro Adventurer

Rookie Adventurer

Rookie Adventurer

Pro Adventurer

Rookie Adventurer

Pro Adventurer

He/him

Ex-SeeD-ingly good

~The Other Side of Fear~

Rookie Adventurer

Rookie Adventurer

Pro Adventurer

He/him

Pro Adventurer

Ex-SeeD-ingly good

Pro Adventurer

~The Other Side of Fear~

Pro Adventurer

Ex-SeeD-ingly good