A few questions about the Gi Tribe

[Turlast]

Hey, guys. I've recently been playing through VII again and it's been pretty fun like usual.

I've just recently completed the Cosmo Canyon part of the story and came away with a few questions:

1) It's said that Seto fought against the Gi Tribe until the very end before being petrified by their poisonous arrows. Another thing stated is the vengeful spirits of the Gi remained in the cave after being killed in the battle.

Since Seto couldn't have finished them, what exactly killed off the rest of the Gi? Was it Bugenhagen's sealing of the cave that inevitably proved to be the demise of the Gi? Or possibly the monsters inside?

2) Since Gi Nattak was the boss in the cave, this would strongly imply he's the leader of the Gi, right? Bugenhagen even seemed a bit surprised by his presence.

I know these questions seem random, but I always come away with new thoughts every time I play VII. Even many yrs later, I still find myself learning new things. Love this game.

 

[Octo]

Hey there, welcome aboard

You raise some good points, Tres or someone will probably know...that is assuming there is an answer, I find often us fans have spent more time thinking about this stuff than the writers ever did

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That does seem to be the case.

I don't think a detailed explanation was ever provided in the Ultimanias, but I always took the circumstances of Seto's death to be that he routed the Gi before being overcome by the petrification arrows.

As for Gi Nattak, I've honestly never been sure whether that was the manifestation of a specific spirit (like a tribe leader or war chief) or an amalgamation of many Gi spirits.

 

[Ite]

Welcome!

Basically what Octo said, but if I can venture a guess: Seto withstood the onslaught and killed Gi Nattak in the caves, emerging as his slow-petrify clock neared zero. The Gi troops following Nattak fled at the sight of this proud sentinel, and Seto froze there -- warding away future Gi.

 

[Flare]

Howdy there

I've always been fascinated by the Gi tribe in the sense that you hardly get any info on them and the fight between them and Nanaki's people. I would love to see more to that (maybe text you could read?) in the Remake.

You raise some good points, Tres or someone will probably know...that is assuming there is an answer, I find often us fans have spent more time thinking about this stuff than the writers ever did

Oftentimes a group of fans can, I find, think about these works and ask more questions and whatnot than the creators. I think it must be a combination of dedication and love, and the 'outside view' that fans have.

 

[Turlast]

Thanks a lot for the welcome and answers, guys. I'm often lurking, but it's nice to be involved in a discussion.

The idea of Seto taking down the entire tribe is definitely implied since Bugenhagen said his heroic effort prevented the Gi from reaching Cosmo Canyon. I also like the idea of Seto stopping them on his own, though the idea of the remaining Gi being sealed in the cave with no way of escaping is pretty cool as well.

Since Gi Nattak is a...rather huge entity, being composed of various Gi souls is definitely plausible. I seriously doubt that was his natural appearance before he became a ghost.

I just always went along with him being the Gi leader because of the boss status, the fact that he was assisted by two Soul Fire's, and the vast difference in appearance in comparison to the Gi Spector's you fight in the cave.

All of them wield a spear, but Gi Nattak's is far bigger and much more powerful. He also can command his Soul Fire to take your character over to an extent. Perhaps the Gi Nattak we see is just a result of him being joined by the various souls of the Gi in an attempt to....make their leader as powerful as possible in case there was an opportunity for them to exact their revenge. The face of Gi Nattak was cheesing hard as hell when he saw them, after all.

I'm really looking forward to the Cosmo Canyon section in the upcoming remake. Since information on the Gi invasion is scarce, I'm really hoping they expand on this because I find this to be one of the most fascinating parts of VII. So mysterious and yet so cool.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I share your wish for more information on that element of the world's history.

Reviewing the game's dialogue, it looks like Bugen implied that some of the Gi did escape Seto's savage defense of the canyon:

"This warrior went through the cave all alone.
Fighting attackers one after another..."

"Seto continued to fight the Gi tribe here. ...To protect this Canyon.
Even after the Gi's poisonous arrows turned his body to stone......
Even after they all ran away... Seto, continued to protect us.
And he continues to protect us, even now."

I haven't examined the Japanese dialogue for comparison, but if this is accurate, there must have been some who fled -- perhaps after seeing their leader taken down?

 

[Octo]

Sorta off topic, but is it:

1)The Guy Tribe
2)The Gee Tribe (hard G)
3) The Gee Tribe (soft g)

or, what I've been saying since the game came out

The G.I. Tribe

???

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's pronounced like the "gee" in "geek."

 

[Shademp]

I always pronounced it like the "jee" in "jeez". Jee Nattack.

 

[Octo]

I'm gonna stick with G.I. I think

 

[ForceStealer]

This was one pronunciation I always got right, interestingly.

 

[Flare]

I always pronounced it like the "jee" in "jeez". Jee Nattack.

Same

 

[Clement Rage]

Wow, I pronounced something right for once!

My impression was that it was a two pronged attack. They were attacking the front of the settlement as well, which was where Red's Mom was. Then Seto heard somehow that they were also attacking through the back entrance and left the frontlines, which was why Red thought he was a coward. He killed his way through the cave, and the rest were too afraid of the statue to go in.

Not sure where I'm getting all that, though.

 

[hian]

On a side note - this is another place where the world of FFVII is sadly under-developed.

I mean - where is the Gi tribe now, and where did it come from?
There are no other cities/towns close to Cosmo Canyon. It's said the Gi ran away and that Seto is still protecting the canyon (in spirit I guess), but from what?
Where are the remaining Gi he's supposedly protecting the canyon from?

I seriously hope they flesh out the world in the remake.

It will be seriously jarring to have the story be portrayed fully in the new graphics, and still have the same plot being presented only within the locations of the original game as they were in the original.
I mean - Shinra controls the world, but there are no Shinra out-posts in the other continents. In fact, the rest of the world don't seem to have had countries with any meaningful infrastructure, armies or cities for Shinra to conquer to begin with...

Yet, the story keeps hinting out larger political machinations, various tribes and nations fighting etc.

So yeah, where the fetch is the Gi tribe and where did they come from?

 

[Lulcielid]

Hey there, welcome aboard

You raise some good points, Tres or someone will probably know...that is assuming there is an answer, I find often us fans have spent more time thinking about this stuff than the writers ever did

We should also take into consideration that from the writer(s) perspective some stuff might not be important to be answered/explained nor actually important to requiere one.

 

[hian]

Hey there, welcome aboard

You raise some good points, Tres or someone will probably know...that is assuming there is an answer, I find often us fans have spent more time thinking about this stuff than the writers ever did

We should also take into consideration that from the writer(s) perspective some stuff might not be important to be answered/explained nor actually important to requiere one.

Very true.
It can also be said though, that since the authors are fallible human beings, what they consider unimportant might not actually be unimportant from the view of the audience - and as such, the omission of certain details might actually be detrimental to the quality of the work because it makes it harder, if not outright impossible, for the audience to connect with, or get immersed in the narrative.

Whilst I think it's obvious that FFVII's underdeveloped world is probably intentional in so far as they probably wanted focus almost entirely on the presentation of story and spectacle over realism, it's also apparent I think, looking at the FF fandom and the people who really didn't like FFVII, that at least some portion of the people who played it had issues with this choice.

And, given the new style and direction of the remake, and the new state of the industry and fandom (with the rise in popularity of games like the Witcher, and with FFXV on the horizon) not fleshing out the world of FFVII at this point is likely to have significant impact on people's ability to enjoy the game.

For that reason I would argue that it would be in the best interest of the devs to find some answers to questions like that, if they didn't already have them from before.

 

[Ite]

Yep. There's a lot of abstraction in 90s games that people won't go for nowadays. FFVII's leading competitors were a bandicoot in board shorts and a plumber who spat fire, so it didn't seem too strange back then. We are in different times.

 

[Clement Rage]

It's a balance, like everything else. There are pitfalls in explaining too much as well as too little, the devs are going to have to strike the right note to please a decent amount of fanbase. Not an easy trick.

 

[hian]

Yep. There's a lot of abstraction in 90s games that people won't go for nowadays. FFVII's leading competitors were a bandicoot in board shorts and a plumber who spat fire, so it didn't seem too strange back then. We are in different times.

Well, to some extent. It depends largely on the crowd, and I think, on how you present your project.
I have no issue with trippy and abstract games - In fact I largely prefer them to games aiming for realism - but it depends entirely on whether I feel the game in question is being consistent with itself.

One of my biggest issues with a lot of modern games is that they take themselves so seriously, and try to go really far with the realism, despite the fact that at the end of the day, they're still video-games, still struggling with a lot of the same issues that they did back in the 90's, such as bad writing, lack of cohesion between game-play and story, and the "uncanny valley" of video-game logic/weird A.Is/RnG etc. interfering with gravity the devs are trying to inpart.

This makes for some really cringy stuff.

Not saying it's all bad though. I just like games that seem self-aware of their own weaknesses and play off of them. That's probably why my favorite games of all time are FFVII and MGS.
The silly and nonsensical stuff, and the eclectic consistent disregard for consistency that run through those games in tandem with the more serious undertones and story beats make them visceral roller-coaster rides that just burn themselves into your mind in a way that very few pieces of art IMO manage to do - like a good Terry Pratchett book, or a movie by Takeshi Kitano.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

There's a fine line video games have to hit between so much information that there's no room for audience interpretations and too little information that the plot elements don't feel connected.

Currently the video game industry is swinging towards the too much information side whereas in the '90s it was more in the too little information side. Hopefully the remake doesn't explain so much that it looses some of the ambiguity that has spawned so much great headcanon.

 

[Turlast]

While this isn't exactly related to the GI Tribe, I can say the whole Cosmo Canyon ordeal (and further on) has helped me appreciate Bugenhagen and Nanaki's relationship. The way they interact with each other and the care shown on both ends lets you know the importance and depth of their connection. I never really gave much attention to stuff like this back in the day, but I'm glad I do now.

For the first time ever, I acquired Nanaki's ultimate weapon, which gave us that last scene between him and Bugenhagen. Sure, it might not have been Aeris' death scene, but it was powerful enough. Nanaki trying to shake Bugenhagen was pretty sad, too. I was pretty surprised with how well he handled it when he came out to talk to Cloud and co about it. I guess that goes back to his renewed maturity.

I can say without a doubt that Nanaki's character has grown on me a lot. I look forward to his depiction in the Remake.

 

[ForceStealer]

The way Cloud "plays along," makes it so much sadder, for some reason.

 

[hian]

Wait what, there's a Bugenhagen death scene?
All this time...

Man, FF7 has a lot of hidden story content.

 

[RedFFWolf]

I can say without a doubt that Nanaki's character has grown on me a lot. I look forward to his depiction in the Remake.

The one and only thing I'm reserved about this remake is the portrayal of the 9 playable characters, mostly regarding Nanaki (I have issues - not issues "with", but issues full stop).
Still, can't help but look forward to what happens.

Wait what, there's a Bugenhagen death scene?
All this time...

Man, FF7 has a lot of hidden story content.

And courtesy of our Shad, you can even check out the alternate Bugenhagen scene, an ambiguous version