A few thoughts about Aerith, Tifa, and others...

[Jairus]

Just been thinking a bit about a few things. Aerith and Tifa get all the attention, and when people think of the girls of FF7R, they only seem to think of them. People like Pabon make polls about that sort of thing, who people like, and those two are the only ones included. They're the only two girls of the game that get hires screens and renders in SE's info drops, and they have a whole subquest that's basically just an excuse for them to be dolled up and glamorous.

So is it any surprise that Jessie gets so often forgotten and overlooked in comparison? Sure she's getting more time and development in the remake, but it's still not on the level of Aerith and Tifa. Outside the trailers and the demo, there's not been much shown of her or Biggs and Wedge, for that matter. No hires screens or renders like there are for the other characters. No info drops just about them. Sure they might not be directly playable, but since they're being expanded and fleshed out, should that really make a difference? Especially in Jessie's case in comparison to Aerith and Tifa. Those two cast a huge shadow. How is she supposed to stand out and be noticed when everyone seems to care more about them instead and barely even remembers her?

SE has an opportunity to challenge people's expectations and perceptions of the characters and their roles relative to each other and the story, but I don't know if they will. I know we'll likely have a lot of time with Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge, but with how little they've been mentioned or shown outside the trailers and demo it still feels like they're playing second fiddle to the others instead of being in a more equal role more comparable to having a more fleshed out background and story. For example, somehow I doubt Jessie will get her own dress up quest like Wall Market to give her what Aerith and Tifa already have and let us see her differently than we're used to or expecting, though it would be nice if they did and give her something she didn't have before as well as throw us a nice curveball regarding our expectations of what we think we'll see from and about her.

It's something a lot of people have never even thought of, which is partly my point. They're so used to thinking of her, Biggs, and Wedge only in certain ways and roles that it never even occurs to them to think of how they could be expanded in little ways like that without compromising the overall story. One thing I hope for with the remake is that these characters, Jessie especially, get an increased noticeability and memorability that they didn't have before so that they're thought of almost as much as the rest of the cast and included in discussions and things that they weren't before, topics and polls and other stuff that typically featured only the rest of the cast or in Jessie's case, Aerith and Tifa. That she'd get to be on a more equal level with them and remembered as much as they are and included as much as they are, at least for Part 1.

I know it's probably silly, and I'm not even really sure why it's become important to me. I guess it just irks me to see them ignored in the info drops and stuff because everyone seems to be so obsessed with the rest of the cast that they've forgotten them or never even thought to wonder about getting the same kind of things for these characters that we've gotten for the rest of the crew. And I'm used to thinking and writing more about the less noticed and less remembered characters of these games, I suppose. Rooting for the underdog and all that, I guess. And in comparison to Aerith and Tifa, Jessie definitely is. I know this is all probably a bit goofy of me, and I'm sorry.

I like the other characters, including Aerith and Tifa, I just hope that the remake really challenges people's perceptions and expectations of Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge as being just minor characters that you leave behind and lets them stand on their own and be more than that and really be remembered. Not just with the missions we'll probably do with them, but with lots of story scenes and development with them both as a group and individually one on one with Cloud as he gets to know them better. And maybe, at the very least, a hires render of the whole trio, if they won't do ones of each of them individually, though it'd be great if they did.

SE should give them at least some promotion outside the trailers, and not just the rest of the cast, especially given their fate. And maybe show a clip or two of them interacting with Cloud outside the missions in the next trailer, parts of actual scenes like they've done for the rest of the cast, remind us that they're a part of the story, too, and not just there for some extra minigames. Bits like Biggs offering Cloud a drink like in the OG or maybe Jessie talking with Cloud about her dreams for the future and where she came from. Just a couple snippets like they've done with other scenes and characters. Anyway, sorry for the long ramble, just wanted to share some of these thoughts I had about these characters and the remake.

 

[Knights of the Round]

I think it's as simple as Jessie wasn't a lead character, and so people didn't become as attached to her as they did the others. When you journey with the other characters for 40+ hours, and then you replay the game over and over again like many of us did, you become much more attached to them than the character who lasted for just 2-3 hours.

Personally I like Jessie's design and personality in the Remake a lot. She was a forgettable character for me in the original due to the above reasons, but I'm liking the expansion of her character in this version and expect to identify with her a lot more than in the original.

There's no replacing Aeris in that isolated treasured space in this guy's heart, though. She'll always be my #1.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

To your point about marketing, I'm not sure yet that you have anything to worry about. There hasn't been really anything on the trio, but the game is still several months away. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get more spotlight closer to release.

To your point about how they play second fiddle to the main characters, I think it's partly an issue ingrained in the OG and partly an issue with it being a remake. Even in the OG, the main characters of the party weren't treated equally in terms of screen time/importance--and this isn't unique to FFVII either. I don't think any FF has managed to have an equally important/involved cast of characters. There are always the "relevant ones" and the "other ones," at least in my experience.

Adding to this is the fact that this is a remake--so many people are excited because they want to revisit and re-experience FFVII and in the OG, the trio simply weren't all that important. I bet you'll see more love for the trio after everyone plays part 1, but as of now, it's a tall order to get fans more excited about essentially new characters when they're only really interested in this game to re-experience the old ones. I mean, I know that Tifa, Cloud, and Nanaki are some of my favourite video game characters ever. Just because the trio can't compete with them doesn't mean I won't like them in their own right though.

 

[Jairus]

I think it's as simple as Jessie wasn't a lead character, and so people didn't become as attached to her as they did the others. When you journey with the other characters for 40+ hours, and then you replay the game over and over again like many of us did, you become much more attached to them than the character who lasted for just 2-3 hours.

Personally I like Jessie's design and personality in the Remake a lot. She was a forgettable character for me in the original due to the above reasons, but I'm liking the expansion of her character in this version and expect to identify with her a lot more than in the original.

There's no replacing Aeris in that isolated treasured space in this guy's heart, though. She'll always be my #1.

View attachment 4121

Well with as much content centered around the trio as we seem to be getting, it might actually hit the 40+ mark as far as how much time we get with them. Will that make a difference? Why should only lead characters be followed, or only those who last beyond a certain arbitrary number of game hours? I'm glad you like how they've developed Jessie so far for the remake, I do too. It's part of what got these thoughts going in my head in the first place. And it's cool that you like Aerith best, nothing wrong with that. She's a good character, and I like her, too. I just hope that by the time Part 1 comes out and people play it, Jessie won't be so left out and forgotten when people think of the girls in this game.

And I hope you're right about the marketing, Cannon. Though if they recognized the issue of inequality of representation for the characters as far as screen time and importance, they could have worked to fix that for the remake. I guess we'll see. But it wouldn't have hurt to include a few things about them in the info drops along with the rest of the stuff they released. The more interested and excited they make us about them now, the harder their loss will hit in the game. And hopefully they will be able to compete with the rest of the cast for attention by then.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

And I hope you're right about the marketing, Cannon. Though if they recognized the issue of inequality of representation for the characters as far as screen time and importance, they could have worked to fix that for the remake. I guess we'll see. But it wouldn't have hurt to include a few things about them in the info drops along with the rest of the stuff they released. The more interested and excited they make us about them now, the harder their loss will hit in the game. And hopefully they will be able to compete with the rest of the cast for attention by then.

I'm interested in how the trio develops too, but I disagree with who their competition is. For me, Square will be successful if the trio compete with beloved secondary characters from other Final Fantasies--characters like General Leo from VI, for example. They're secondary characters--and there's nothing wrong with that! Good secondary characters can be the best part of a story--but that also means that I think it's counter-productive for them to compete for attention with main characters. See what I mean?

 

[Jairus]

I suppose, but why shouldn't they? And how would it be? It's that inherent favortism that irks me, really. Not by you, in particular. Just in general. That no matter how developed they are, people won't see these characters as anything more than secondary at best, never see what they could become if they were allowed to grow beyond what they're expected to be, never see them in the same light as the others or include them in things the others typically are (the same discussions, polls, that sort of thing). As an example, I'd love it if they made Jessie the first series NPC to be added to Dissidia NT's roster (Marksman would probably be best for her with her gun and bombs), but I know there's about as much chance of that as there is of getting snow in Jamaica. Only PC's get stuff like that, unfortunately.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

For better or worse, Final Fantasy games have huge casts of characters. There will always be characters who get more screentime and those that don't. And I'm not even talking about the Protagonists.

The Turks, for instance, aren't even PCs and yet I'd say I'm looking forwards more to them then I am to the side characters are our side in the Remake. And part of that is because they don't die less then five hours in to the game and get actual character development. In the OG, Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge are really simple characters without a lot going for them. They're they're to be teammates while the rest of the cast isn't introduced and to be the ones who take the fall to show why Shin-Ra is a monster.

Because Jessie, Biggs and Wedge get so little screentime, people don't care a lot about them. They're motivations aren't gone to in-depth and they don't change over the course of the time we know them. SE would have to advertize and spoil a lot of their development before the game is even out to get us to care about them to the same degree as the other characters. It also doesn't help that they are only going to be Game One characters. Their death at the end of the game is already known, so they can't be used in marketing for the rest of the FFVIIR games.

This is a contrast to characters like the Turks, or the Shin-Ra heads of department who are much more iconic and stick around for the entire game. And the players already have a least some idea who they are.

I'd say SE would have to work as hard to get us to care about Jessie, Biggs and Wedge as they would need to get us to care about the characters of a new FF game at this point. And part of the draw of FFVIIR to SE is do doubt that they don't have to re-introduce the characters of FFVIIR to the gaming world. We know who these characters are already. All SE has to do is make sure those characters stay true to themselves and they'll nail the landing.

 

[Jairus]

The thing is, the remake is likely to explore their motivations and background, and they likely will change over the course of the time they're with us. And it's precisely because they're only in this one game that they should be given more light, to let them shine during the only chance they have to do so. To get people to stop thinking they're the same characters we knew from the OG, to get them to realize that we are going to get to know them and see them grow before their fate. That they're not forgettable cannon fodder anymore.

Let that sink in for a minute, Obs. People seem to still be thinking of them in terms of who they were in the OG, not who they'll be in the remake and how they've been expanded to be real characters. SE could release a few tidbits about their background and growth without spoiling anything so we can get an idea of who they are now as opposed to who they were in the OG. They could do as I said above and in the next trailer include a few snippets of them talking with Cloud in story scenes showing that they're not just tagalongs and minigame helpers.

And the trio could still be seen in occasional flashbacks in future installments, such as when Barret talks about them in Cosmo Canyon. I would actually hope that they're at least mentioned here and there in the later parts and not totally forgotten. We'll likely have a good chunk of time with them in Part 1, possibly even most of the game - way more than in the OG and way more than five hours. So they won't be people you don't know anymore.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The entire point of the Remake is to bring back the beloved characters. Not make new ones outshine the old ones. That is what a mainline Final Fantasy title is for.

Hate to break it to you, but I'm not interested in this game because of the side cast. It's the main cast that I'm here for. Sure, the side cast is going to get expanded on more then in the OG. But that goes for the entire cast. If Jessie, Biggs and Wedge are getting more screentime and fleshing out, the Main Cast is going to get exponentially more. Especially since this is their game.

We can already see this with how Sephiroth is showing up way earlier (even if it's only through Cloud's hallucinations) and how he has these new black ghost things he has some relationship with that can effect the physical world in some way. The Wall Market segment is probably going to be a lot more dragged out then in the OG and will probably have even more chances to get to know Aerith and Tifa.

The one character I can see Jessie, Biggs and Wedge maybe having more to do with is Barret. But Barret already has Marlene and Dyne as part of his backstory and they are frankly way more important to him as a character then the rest of the AVALANCHE crew is. That said, one of the big peices of character development Barret goes through is learning how AVALANCHE's action effect people who don't have anything to do with Shin-Ra. Often for the worst.

Long story short, if Jessie, Biggs and Wedge outshine the Main Cast, I'll be very disappointed in SE since that's not the game they are even trying to make.

 

[Odysseus]

I've become pretty fond of the trio over time, but when I first played the game I found Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie just as forgettable as most players probably did. Once I stumbled upon this forum and started looking at Shademp's unused text series, that changed a little. The extended version of the scene with Cloud and Jessie on the train, which expands on her motivations a little and creates more chemistry between them. She had a monologue that really changed my perspective on her:

“From the slum towns to Midgar… A variety of items are transported by this train that controls everything. Anyway, riding this train makes you realize
something. Those things aren’t all the city above sucks up. Kind feelings… Warm, light hearts… They’re gradually disappearing… I won’t let that happen. That’s why I joined AVALANCHE. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to talk for so long. I just wanted you to know the reason I’m fighting. I didn’t want you to think I was just a girl who’s bomb-crazy.”

All completely removed from the final game unfortunately, but that dialogue added so much depth to Jessie that I really came to like her a lot. I ended up making a mod for the PC version for the sole purpose of restoring that and much of the other unused content of FF7 because of how much that scene added to the story for me, and other line like it. So yeah, I'm pretty happy Square has another chance to tell her story (and Biggs and Wedge too) to give the game that extra nuance, I really feel like there's a lot of potential to expand on those characters and make them fan favorites. On the level of the main characters? Probably not, but I still hope the become much more than just "those guys who die in the first hour and a half of the game."



Also I want a goddamn Jessie Play Arts Kai figure square, LET ME GIB U MY MONEH

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

You've become very attached to the Jessie you've fleshed out and imagined in your mind, Jairus, so it's natural you'd want to see her get more development and screentime. That Jessie in your mind isn't the Jessie most of us know from the OG, though. You see her as a potentially huge asset that SE may simply squander. We all have our favourite characters we'd like to see getting more attention in the Remake. I'd love to see more of the Turks. I'd love to have a section where we play AS the Turks. I would adore to see Tseng's role significantly expanded and I would like us to be able to fight him as a Boss (Aerith one-on-one with Tseng before he takes her in would be cool). I would love to see the BC Turks put in an appearance. And there are people who for some reason adore Kunsel (surely the least developed named NPC Square ever designed. He doesn't even have a face!) and will feel cheated if he doesn't make an appearance in the Remake. In short, we allk have our preferred ways for SE to expand on their original story. And they can't please us all.

It's inevitable that Jessie, Biggs and Wedge are going to play a much bigger role in the Remake, so I think you're safe on that score. I doubt SE are going to add a fourth wheel to the LTD, but they might. It's quite possible that Jessie will pick up a huge fanbase among new players, and SE will then respond by adding her character to more spinoffs; that's a thing that could happen. It's even possible that some OG-players will develop a fondness for her. But for most of us, she is a supporting character who is destined to die partway through the game, and we'll just never be that invested in her. My hope for Jessie is that they make her a more interesting, rounded character in her own right.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

The thing is, the remake is likely to explore their motivations and background, and they likely will change over the course of the time they're with us. And it's precisely because they're only in this one game that they should be given more light, to let them shine during the only chance they have to do so. To get people to stop thinking they're the same characters we knew from the OG, to get them to realize that we are going to get to know them and see them grow before their fate. That they're not forgettable cannon fodder anymore.

Let that sink in for a minute, Obs. People seem to still be thinking of them in terms of who they were in the OG, not who they'll be in the remake and how they've been expanded to be real characters. SE could release a few tidbits about their background and growth without spoiling anything so we can get an idea of who they are now as opposed to who they were in the OG. They could do as I said above and in the next trailer include a few snippets of them talking with Cloud in story scenes showing that they're not just tagalongs and minigame helpers.

And the trio could still be seen in occasional flashbacks in future installments, such as when Barret talks about them in Cosmo Canyon. I would actually hope that they're at least mentioned here and there in the later parts and not totally forgotten. We'll likely have a good chunk of time with them in Part 1, possibly even most of the game - way more than in the OG and way more than five hours. So they won't be people you don't know anymore.

I can't help but think that a lot of what you're describing here is probably going to happen. They're going to get more screen time, players will learn more about them, they'll become more complete characters, and get more fans. Maybe not to the extent you're envisioning, but that's impossible to control; people like the characters they like and you can't forcefully change that. And since we're still months from release, they might get more promotional material too. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I think it's too early to be this down on how they'll be portrayed/how fans will respond to them. There's no way to know yet, so I think it's best to just think positively.

That they're not forgettable cannon fodder anymore.

Excuse you. There's nothing wrong with being cannon fodder

 

[NibelFire]

While I disagree with giving the trio nearly the same spotlight as the main cast, I do think that they were so much of an afterthought that it's almost criminal. Since we know now that AVALANCHE is actually a much more interconnected group that goes beyond Midgar, there's a lot of potential there to make the trio (and AVALANCHE as a whole) play a much larger role in the bigger picture.

I feel like there's a lot of talk about their role in the first game, but honestly, I've been thinking of ways that they can stay relevant beyond that. Not with their presence of course, since we know their fate. The most we've gotten so far is Biggs' probable sister from DC really. What if you could make a whole quest line about learning their identities, their motivations for joining AVALANCHE? Then you could traverse the world and encounter people who're close to them, that kind of stuff. Now they can become more than just filler characters.

“From the slum towns to Midgar… A variety of items are transported by this train that controls everything. Anyway, riding this train makes you realize
something. Those things aren’t all the city above sucks up. Kind feelings… Warm, light hearts… They’re gradually disappearing… I won’t let that happen. That’s why I joined AVALANCHE. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to talk for so long. I just wanted you to know the reason I’m fighting. I didn’t want you to think I was just a girl who’s bomb-crazy.”

All completely removed from the final game unfortunately, but that dialogue added so much depth to Jessie that I really came to like her a lot. I ended up making a mod for the PC version for the sole purpose of restoring that and much of the other unused content of FF7 because of how much that scene added to the story for me, and other line like it. So yeah, I'm pretty happy Square has another chance to tell her story (and Biggs and Wedge too) to give the game that extra nuance, I really feel like there's a lot of potential to expand on those characters and make them fan favorites. On the level of the main characters? Probably not, but I still hope the become much more than just "those guys who die in the first hour and a half of the game."

I'm curious to see how much of the new contents in the Remake will be from those old cut contents back in the day. Some of them felt like they were really going somewhere with it, but ultimately decided not to. That Jessie quote right there is a perfect example of what I have in mind, just small snippets that build up depth in her character. I'd be very happy if Square goes in that direction for fleshing out the trio.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That quest would only work if players cared about Jessie, Biggs and Wedge in the first place. It's perfectly possible that the Remake will expand their characters to the point where we do feel excited by such a quest.

 

[Jairus]

Obs, I was never saying they should outshine the original cast. You misunderstood me. I just meant that for this one game, this one game that they're actually in, they should be given just as much spotlight and attention as the rest of the cast. Not outshine. Just be allowed to be more equal. The attitude I'm railing against that you and NIbelfire and other people (not here necessarily, just in general) seem to have toward these characters is basically this: "Sit down, shut up, stay in your box, and don't even think about being more than you are."

It's that attitude that riles me, especially in Jessie's case in comparison to Aerith and Tifa. Yuffie was a third option in the OG, Lic, so why is it so hard for Jessie to be the same in Part 1? To at least give her that much for this one game that she's in, especially since the groundwork is already there. She gets dismissed and pushed aside by people just because she isn't a "main" or likely "playable" character, much like the rest of the trio. Is that right? Only "main" and "playable" characters are worth allowing ourselves to be invested in? She's likely to see almost as much time in the game with Cloud as the other two girls, so what difference does it make for this one game of the series if she is included as a third option? Is it fear of change on the part of some people? Aerith and Tifa are going to have a lot longer time in the series. Jessie won't. But it'll still be likely nearly an entire game's worth of time, enough to develop something if the player makes choices and actions that favor her (assuming the date mechanic is in there like it was for the Gold Saucer in the OG, which it very well could be).

Part of the point of the remake is about change and the unexpected, so why couldn't this be part of that idea? And for the trio in general as well, as far as giving them enough of a presence that they'll be noticed as much as the rest of the cast and remembered as much as they are. And Cannon, I guess you're right about my concerns possibly being premature. I guess I was worried because all they seem to be showing outside the trailers is stuff about the rest of the cast, which I can understand, but they could have included a few tidbits about the trio along with it. Oh, and I didn't even think about your name when I made my comment to Obs, lol. Sorry about that, hehe.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I don't really see people having that attitude. Jairus. We all know Jessie, Biggs and Wedge are going to have expanded roles in the game. We're all quite interested to see what SE will do with them.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

What I don't get is why you think SE should be promoting the AVALANCE three more then they already are. It's already obvious they will have a larger role in the Remake then in the OG. But that isn't the selling point of the game either.

There's a big difference between player perception of what characters should be focused on in a game and what makes sense from a game marketing/advertising perspective. And putting more focus on what were niche side-characters doesn't make sense from a marketing/advertising perspective.

SE is trying to do one hell of a balancing act with FFVII . They are trying to capitalize on what gaming culture remembers and loved the most about FFVII and trying to surprise gaming culture with what they do at the same time. And for the marketing/advertising, they are smart to focus more on what is familiar then what is different. The last thing SE wants to deal with is a "they changed it, now it sucks" more than they already are just for remaking FFVII in the first place. And focusing too much on the AVALANCHE three rather then the Main Characters could easily lead to that.

 

[Jairus]

Only to a certain point, Lic, and that's what I'm talking about. Like people just can't imagine them going beyond what they think they should be during the one chance they have to do that. To challenge people's perceptions of them and what they should be or could be.

Obs, I never said they should focus more on the trio than on the rest of the cast. But just to include them in what they do for the rest of the cast as far as promotion and stuff, considering their larger role in the remake, and to do some of the same things for them (hires renders/screens, info drops) that they do for the rest of the crew. Why can't both sets of characters be promoted at the same time?

 

[leadmyskeptic]

fixation
noun
fix·a·tion | \ fik-ˈsā-shən \
Definition of fixation

: the act, process, or result of fixing, fixating, or becoming fixated: such as
a : a persistent concentration of libidinal energies upon objects characteristic of psychosexual stages of development preceding the genital stage
b : stereotyped behavior (as in response to frustration)
c : an obsessive or unhealthy preoccupation or attachment

 

[NibelFire]

That quest would only work if players cared about Jessie, Biggs and Wedge in the first place. It's perfectly possible that the Remake will expand their characters to the point where we do feel excited by such a quest.

I was just thinking of general in-game methods for character building, which I would definitely be invested in rather than your typical unimaginative fetch quests. Don't have to be about this trio specifically, mind you, but would be cool to give them that treatment.

@Jairus I think it's a bit of a hyperbole to claim that we have such agenda. We have varying level of interest in the trio, but all of us want to see them get better treatment in the Remake, which is exactly what will happen.

Now to your point about equality, this is weird because we have to seperate Jessie from Biggs and Wedge here. The reason is because Biggs and Wedge are an established running gag duo for the longest time in the FF titles. Their roles have always been, and always will be minor, no matter the settings. There won't be a world where they get any level of attention close to the main cast, so there's no reason for Square to go out of their way to promote them.

Jessie is slightly different. Again, I have a soft spot for her back in the day (though nowhere near your level it seems), and I'd more than welcome to see her become more prominent than what she was. Do I want her to be elevate to the same level as Tifa and Aerith? Sadly no, and we can respectfully agree to disagree on that matter I suppose.

If you're talking in term of promotion, I honestly think Square has given her very favorable treatment. She is being modeled after the artist's wife (Roberto Ferrari), gets a very good VA, has more appearances in the trailers than Biggs and Wedge, has more interaction in the Bombing Run than the entire time in OG, and so on. If that doesn't ease your concern about how she's being viewed in the Remake, I don't know what will.

 

[Jairus]

I guess I can see your point about Jessie, Nibel, aside from the issue with Aerith and Tifa. Why shouldn't she have the chance to be included like they are and thus shake things up a bit from tradition? That's what I was talking about with the attitude I mentioned earlier, especially in regards to Jessie in comparison to Aerith and Tifa. This is her one game in the series - the other two will be in it far longer and have plenty of opportunities all across the series to build their relationships with Cloud. So why not let Jessie be just as viable an option for Cloud in Part only, during the only chance she has for such a thing, as the other two? Do you think people can't ever feel something for more than two people over the course of their lives?

It's like Aerith and Tifa are these sacred idols that people are just terrified of any other girl getting as much attention as they do and Cloud having any other option but them or that he could ever even have cared for anyone but them, even though in the OG Yuffie was part of the date mechanic as a third option. That means that having Jessie take that role in the date mechanic for Part 1 is neither unprecedented nor unreasonable. And it shouldn't be frowned upon, either. It's like people dismiss her from inclusion just because she isn't Aerith or Tifa.

And lead, that wasn't really a very nice post. Because I care about something, I'm automatically fixated? That's the kind of dismissive attitude I've been talking about.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I guess I can see your point about Jessie, Nibel, aside from the issue with Aerith and Tifa. Why shouldn't she have the chance to be included like they are and thus shake things up a bit from tradition? That's what I was talking about with the attitude I mentioned earlier, especially in regards to Jessie in comparison to Aerith and Tifa. This is her one game in the series - the other two will be in it far longer and have plenty of opportunities all across the series to build their relationships with Cloud. So why not let Jessie be just as viable an option for Cloud in Part only, during the only chance she has for such a thing, as the other two?

They are main characters. She isn't, and won't be. They are playable characters. She isn't, and almost certainly won't be.

Speaking as the person who was probably Jessie's biggest fan on this forum until you came along, I had made peace with her role in the scheme of things by some point in 1998. =P

Do you think people can't ever feel something for more than two people over the course of their lives?

Try not making shit personal. Especially when it's as silly as this, and also something no one at all implied.

Though it's also pretty ironic in light of how what we usually hear in reference to Cloud's romantic affections is "Do you think people can't have romantic feelings for more than one person?"

It's like Aerith and Tifa are these sacred idols that people are just terrified of any other girl getting as much attention as they do and Cloud having any other option but them or that he could ever even have cared for anyone but them, even though in the OG Yuffie was part of the date mechanic as a third option.

It's more that most people just don't care about this as much as you do. The original game's romantic quandry geometric configuration was sufficient for most players' level of dramatic interest and emotional investment, and so they aren't looking for significant additional layers of complexity to be added to it.

That's just the way it is, and an impassioned speech about it every other day won't change it.

 

[Jairus]

Except that there is precedent in the FF series for PC's to be involved in that way, past or present, with NPC's. So that difference shouldn't mean anything. What I said to Nibel about feeling for more than two people, I was just trying to illustrate that the number is an arbitrary limit placed by people who may be afraid of it being expanded in Cloud's case.

Maybe they don't, but how would it be more complex if Jessie's just taking the role in it that Yuffie had in the original for Part 1? It's at the same level, just with a character swapped out. And besides, the remake is as much about change and new things as it is about returning to what's familiar. So what's wrong with including the love angle in said changes, at least for this one game of the series?

And it's long past 1998 now, and with the remake, her role doesn't have to be just what it was before. Had that occurred to you? And think about the attitude I mentioned before, but in terms specifically of Jessie in relation to being part of the love angle with Aerith and Tifa for Part 1: "Sit down, shut up, stay in your box, and don't even think about being more than you are." Is that sort of attitude right? Why is it so wrong to give her a chance?

And it's that very attitude in people of indifference about it, apparent unwillingness to consider new possibilities, and in some cases, antagonism toward the very idea, that keeps me talking about it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Except that there is precedent in the FF series for PC's to be involved in that way, past or present, with NPC's. So that difference shouldn't mean anything.

You asked the "Why?"; I gave you the "Because."

Maybe they don't, but how would it be more complex if Jessie's just taking the role in it that Yuffie had in the original for Part 1? It's at the same level, just with a character swapped out.

What Jessie would have, if added to the equation, would be the role of the participant whose turn in the light was cut short, leaving questions of what would have been forever unanswered. Someone who isn't Yuffie already occupies that role.

Yuffie's (very limited) role in the subplot, such as it even is, was only ever played for comedic effect and entirely one-sided by all indication.

And it's long past 1998 now, and with the remake, her role doesn't have to be just what it was before. Had that occurred to you?

No, I don't know how calendars work.

 

[Eerie]

I think we need to look at what Jessie adds narratively, if you want to make her a love interest (because that's all what this is about, it seems). As Twilight Mexican said, she would get Aerith's role, there is no getting around this one. And Aerith's big role, in the love triangle angle, is exactly that, so you're simply proposing to take off Aerith who is a main character to give to a supporting cast. Because what you're saying is that you want to feel as wounded by Jessie's death as what you were (or supposed to be, at least) for Aerith when she dies.

And then you go back to "but Jessie is just a supporting cast, while Aerith well... she is one of the main character". Narratively speaking, what you're proposing just makes absolutely no sense. And I'm someone who never liked Aerith and who wasn't touched by her death like other fans could be, and even I find this completely off. This is unfair to Aerith.

Jessie will get a bigger role, but I don't think Square will add her as a love interest, because it makes no sense, narratively, to take off from one of the main character's arc to a supporting cast. You also have to add in perspective that in the span of a few days, Cloud would have to get interested in Jessie and Aerith and Tifa. I'm sorry but just saying this it sounds ridiculous to my ears.