AC/CC >> Remake Buster Sword Changes

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#1
This's been discussed elsewhere, but I figured that I'd make a proper topic for it. in AC/CC, the Buster Sword looks different than it did in the OG. The Remake's gone back to the old design, and while there have been other design changes like Barret's appearance, it seems like the Buster Sword is actually just an addition covering over the existing AC/CC version, rather than just changing it. Some of the gold trimmings along the blade are blackened, making it a little tough to distinguish at first what is covered over, and what's just obscured through recolouring, but hopefully this'll help.














X :neo:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#2
Glad to see this getting its own thread. I had no idea (until I brought it up and got people disagreeing again apparently) that there had been any doubt the "original" (in the context of the setting) design is under that riveted box thing. The edges of what we can make out of it are identical. No reason to do that unless it's the same, to be fully revealed at some point during the remake.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#3
I'm wondering if this is intentional so that it can be used to represent Cloud's constructed persona, and the cover will be taken off when he finds out who he really is -- hence him leaving the original sword in memoriam of Zack in AC.




X :neo:
 

Lex

Administrator
#5
I was all for this idea at first and I really hope it's true, but I do have my doubts. I just don't think we can say with any certainty that they didn't just decide to go back to the "original original" design :D
 

Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
#6
What I'm wondering is if you could alter the Buster sword during the game, and make upgrades which could also have some visual impacts. As emblematic the Buster sword might be, in the OG it very quickly became unused because it's pretty much a "Lv. 1 weapon", so I'm wondering if that could be a way to extend its "gameplay life" to make it more significant to the player and to the story.
 

Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#7
And it's still not big enough to fit the entire thing inside. Becomes even clearer seeing them side by side like that. The golden part is still too tall. :huh:
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#8
And it's still not big enough to fit the entire thing inside. Becomes even clearer seeing them side by side like that. The golden part is still too tall. :huh:
Tets, Check the second comparison image. Those orange boxes are the same size, and that's what's covered by that new "hilt" with the 5 bolts. The other gold parts that make it seem "too tall" are actually recoloured black in the Remake version (which you can tell because we see up under the Buster Sword in the Remake screenshot), so that the just the main ornate section is all hidden under the new addition.

You can tell by looking between the two different images for each section of the AC/CC design in the Remake screenshot, because they're from slightly different angles -- which means that the Remake screenshot is even suffering from foreshortening slightly because we're looking under it.

It's very much adequately sized to fit that section.




X :neo:
 

Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#9
The original Buster Sword guard has always been slimmer compared to the golden redesign, and this is no exception.
It would have to be significantly bigger than that to fit the golden guard underneath because a) it would have to obviously be bigger than the thing that needs to fit inside and b) it would add its own thickness on top of that as its made of metal and not paper.
 

Lex

Administrator
#10
It's going to be such an "oh shit" moment for everyone here if they do actually have a segment in the game where that part of the hilt comes off XD
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
#11
Eh... my only question is, why? Why get something to cover it with? What's the point? Why would Cloud go out of his way to do that?

It seems weird to me.
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
#12
^Perhaps as a final way of sealing away the real Zack and making it him instead?

It does seem in some angles that the new guard isn't big enough to cover the gold, however what if they've also redesigned the golden part?

I quite like the idea that Cloud has covered up the golden guard with this metal encasing, and that somewhere later on in the game he'll uncover it, or it'll get busted and come off, revealing the gold underneath. And boom he starts getting some memories back, maybe.
Or, it could also be that Zack himself is the one that covered the gold, perhaps while on the run? They could change some minor points in the story for benefit further on.

Anyway, I really hope the gold is still underneath, I think it's a cool touch and adds some potential to affect the story later on.

Edit: I love that we discuss such seemingly small details, it's so fun. :awesome:
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#13
The original Buster Sword guard has always been slimmer compared to the golden redesign, and this is no exception.
It would have to be significantly bigger than that to fit the golden guard underneath because a) it would have to obviously be bigger than the thing that needs to fit inside and b) it would add its own thickness on top of that as its made of metal and not paper.
...but it does ALL those things, Tets. The side-view angles make it more than clear that the Remake hilt is MUCH larger than the AC/CC design hilt -- especially the last two. The only reason that the orange box sizes match up almost exactly is foreshortening, because you're looking at the Remake version from slightly below and the AC/CC one from directly across. That means that the Remake version is still slightly larger.*

*again discounting the lower steps that taper into the blade that've been recoloured from gold to black.

Please feel free to make a counter-comparison image, so that we can see what doesn't line up for you, since it'll make discussing your misgivings about this a lot easier. (If possible, use cinematic renders rather than gameplay ones, since they're generally more design accurate).

Eh... my only question is, why? Why get something to cover it with? What's the point? Why would Cloud go out of his way to do that?

It seems weird to me.
Why put bolts into his single piece of shoulder armor?

50% rule of cool, 50% making yourself stand out against the other potential Shinra troops, or making him seem more Ex-SOLDIER for when he's wandering around in the slums. Maybe even the Jenova bit of him making his persona seem more unique?

We don't know a lot about how/when it happened other than just the after effects of it. Assuming that the Crisis Core ending is still canon, and the aftercredit is Cloud coming into Midgar and not headed towards the reactor with Barret & AVALANCE, it's gonna be some time after that -- i.e. after he meets up with Tifa, since the Buster Sword still shows the AC/CC design in that cinematic.

It's going to be such an "oh shit" moment for everyone here if they do actually have a segment in the game where that part of the hilt comes off XD
Probably nothing will live up to the "Rufus is the Wheelchair man" moment in AC for me, since I'd called that AGES out before and had a huge thread on ACF for it, and there was a lot of debate on that bit, too -- but I will be quite pleased if it does play a story element like we're guessing.

:awesomonster:



X :neo:
 

Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#14
Yeah I'm not debating this by adding my own diagrams and comparisons. I disagree and will leave it at that.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#15


:bigawesomonster:


In all seriousness though, no worries, Tets. I really just honestly don't understand where your conflict comes from and just wanted to help find a way to clear things up and have a more longform discussion on it. I'll wait around for hleV or someone else to do so if they still find fault with my current presentation.




X :neo:
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
#16
Covering it up is rather st00pid given that it's a massive eye-catching hunk of metal anyway, but, I don't care, covering it up with shit was a neat thing someone noticed.

In fact, were we / TLS someone on here the source of that observation? And is it well-known / something well known Out There? Methinks it's a good subject for an article, if that hasn't been done yet.

(go me, owner of a FFVII fansite and I don't even know what articles we have, :wacky: )
 

Lex

Administrator
#17
It was someone here, and we have an article on it (shortly after the first remake trailer). It's not known if it's actually covered up or not though.
 
#18
Just something worth noting -

I don't know if there are much difference between the game-play trailer sword and the teaser trailer sword, but shouldn't really use the teaser trailer for comparison since :
A.) it was outsourced
B.) Nomura said they really weren't happy with its style, saying it strayed to far from their own
C.) It's unlikely to be featured in game. It was a just a teaser trailer made and directed specifically for the reveal, not for the actual game.
 

hleV

Pro Adventurer
#19
I propose new terminology:
OBS - Original Buster Sword
CBS - Compilation Buster Sword

Anyway,

My view regarding this does not change since the old thread. The golden part is too big. The width seems fine, but not the height. The provided pictures have me come to this conclusion as well.

It seems that SE decided to go with the original look with additions, rather than replacements. The golden handguard was an outright replacement of the OG handguard, so it's out. Additional details on the blade are what they are: additions.

Also if we go with CC, Cloud was still using CBS during his first mission with AVALANCHE, which I believe the Remake disagrees with. If the Remake "retconned" that, why is there so much belief that it did not "retcon" the whole CBS?
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
#20
I kinda wonder if maybe the gold is something that is actually tarnished or fell off the Buster Sword. Sure, it looks a little more robust now, but hear me out.

Angeal always said that he didn't use the sword. "Use brings about wear, tear, and rust—and that's a real waste." When he gave it to Zack, Zack was slicing and dicing everything with it. Sure, he tried to use the blunt edge to preserve it, but it was a quicker draw.

The final battle with Zack (retconned) shows him battling hundreds upon thousands of soldiers. Who's to say that in the final battle, as well as Cloud's perilous journey to Midgar, dragging his drugged up ass through the wastelands hasn't tarnished, even banged up the Buster Sword?
 
#21
I think it's worth mentioning that CC was directed and produced by two completely different people than this game.
While Nojima and Nomura were involved, they're total creative output would be much smaller than this time around. Perhaps Nomura simply wasn't happy with the CBS and decided to go back around to the OBS.

I kinda wonder if maybe the gold is something that is actually tarnished or fell off the Buster Sword. Sure, it looks a little more robust now, but hear me out.
That's not how sword guards are made. They're slid unto the handle of the sword and then secured. They're not made in layers that can fall off. That would be impractical and dangerous.
The day your guard falls off is the day your sword is broken, and you're probably dead from what broke it.

Putting a guard on top of a guard literally makes no sense, damages the balance of the blade with the added weight, and is dangerous because of the debris that might come flying if and when it breaks.

Now, FF isn't known for it's realistic weapon design, but this is so basic I doubt any series designer would let it pass.
 
#23
B.) Nomura said they really weren't happy with its style, saying it strayed to far from their own
What was wrong with it doe?

(Too realistic? Not deformed enough?)
The teaser trailer as a whole, not the Buster Sword in specific.

I'm guessing, based on Nomura's commentary that they really want to stick as close to the original as possible within the new aesthetic, and the teaser took a lot of creative liberties and introduced references to the compilation as well, which Nomura doesn't seem to want at this point.

The first half of the teaser, includes a lot of strange scenes probably included primarily to subvert the viewers expectations in order to strengthen the impact of the few last scenes.
For example :
- Pre-OG Avalanche members as seen in the compilation
- The modern sub-way headed for South Edge.
- The park is shown as being above the plate with the train running by, which makes no sense.
- A high-tech modern Migdar with architecture inconsistent with the original Midgar (Modern 21ct century styled Skyscrapers reaching from the ground up and beyond where the plate should have been as opposed to the more 19th/20th century European style industrial buildings you see on top of the plate in the original)

All of these things do not belong in the original game, or anything that aspires to be like it.
It was a really smart move to include it to confuse viewers so they'd go ballistic once Cloud and Barret popped up and the words "remake" got splashed across the screen - but they're wholly inconsistent with what Kitase and Nomura showed us with the game-play trailer, and what they said in the follow-up interviews.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#25
hleV said:
I propose new terminology:
OBS - Original Buster Sword
CBS - Compilation Buster Sword
Sure, why not. :monster:

I was all for this idea at first and I really hope it's true, but I do have my doubts. I just don't think we can say with any certainty that they didn't just decide to go back to the "original original" design :D
Well, therein lies the rub: It actually looks less like the OBS than it does the CBS redesign. Literally everything about it looks like the redesign -- just with the riveted box of the OBS at the crossguard.

And heck, even that doesn't match the OBS because the sides of the box now extend out past the width of the blade -- they were equivalent to the blade's width on the OBS. Even the rivets aren't quite the same here. They're much bigger than in the original design.
The original Buster Sword guard has always been slimmer compared to the golden redesign, and this is no exception.
You're making our point for us. =P The top of the CBS crossguard's design is clearly, undeniably visible past where the riveted box ends.

Added to that, the sides of the box extend out from that sculpt the same distance as the sides of the gold crossguard on the CBS.
It's going to be such an "oh shit" moment for everyone here if they do actually have a segment in the game where that part of the hilt comes off XD
It's the new LTD -- the Long Tang Debate. :monster:
Eh... my only question is, why? Why get something to cover it with? What's the point? Why would Cloud go out of his way to do that?

It seems weird to me.
Why would Cloud do something crazy? :awesome:
Just something worth noting -

I don't know if there are much difference between the game-play trailer sword and the teaser trailer sword, but shouldn't really use the teaser trailer for comparison since :
A.) it was outsourced
B.) Nomura said they really weren't happy with its style, saying it strayed to far from their own
C.) It's unlikely to be featured in game. It was a just a teaser trailer made and directed specifically for the reveal, not for the actual game.
I had taken that to mean the camera work and such rather than the designs.
 
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