lithiumkatana17
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Lith
Never heard of this until trailer was released a few days ago.
Am I the only one that's not really that bothered by the face?
Am I the only one that's not really that bothered by the face?
Alita: Battle Angel (Live Action Film)
- Thread starter X-SOLDIER
- Start date
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Looks like Alita is pushed to December: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fox-dates-murder-orient-express-sequel-pushes-alita-1084263
I'd say it's a good move, given that there's no Star Wars in the winter, this gives it the room to try and take that spot, and it'd get OVERWHLEMINGLY hit by the massive number of things this summer with Solo & Infinity War.
X
I'd say it's a good move, given that there's no Star Wars in the winter, this gives it the room to try and take that spot, and it'd get OVERWHLEMINGLY hit by the massive number of things this summer with Solo & Infinity War.
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
So, I noticed that in this latest trailer, there were some subtle changes to one of the scenes. It caught my eye, because how fast the action was in it really stood out to me in the first trailer, and I could definitely tell that there was a difference in the cut for this one, so I needed to dig into it.
Aaaand I did. In probably the most detail ever.
So if you want an appreciation for action editing in film and how they’re using a lot of really excellent techniques to assist in overcoming some of the difficulties in translating something from traditional animation to live-action, this post is most likely something you’ll enjoy a bunch. If not, don’t feel the need to get sucked in to all of this tl;dr.
First, I want to touch on the differences in how quickly it’s possible to communicate information to viewers via animation vs. live action, because of the density of what’s shown on screen. There’s a part from this video by Every Frame a Painting that touches on how Satoshi Kon didn’t want to do live action, because animation let him make faster cuts because you can follow information faster and in fewer frames. What animation can convey in 6-10 frames can take live action 10-49 frames (The whole video’s good, but through 6:15 is really what I’m getting at).
Naturally that’s a complication that exists when accurately adapting the feel of something like Alita’s “the most advanced weapon ever” cybernetic combat. You want to everything to still FEEL like the ultra-fast pacing you’d get in an anime, but you don’t want to have to completely resort to Wes Anderson tactics to do so (but I will address that as well). There are ways to still manage to have the specific moves of the content on screen presented so that the audience can them pick up as clearly, but still make them feel incredibly fast and superhuman the way that they would feel in an anime.
So, now that we’ve established a little bit about the limitations of how quickly you can convey something in animation vs. live-action, let’s ALSO look at how you translate action scenes effectively in live-action. While anime can frame movements really quickly and still have them read, live-action has to be a little slower. Having a lot of the action scenes done as CGI animation affords them the opportunity to do longer cuts that’re more difficult with live action, which lets the hits of action in those cuts be a little bit quicker, while also getting dynamic camera shots like anime would. However, to make it feel more natural and visceral, it’s going to cut a bit more like a standard film for anything that isn’t just huge spectacle, so it needs to know how to make action read well.
To get an idea of how much of a difference something very small, like 3 frames can make in fast-paced live-action combat scenes, there’s this video of Jackie Chan talking about the importance of framing, camera movement, editing, and how to reestablish movement when changing a shot. Action & reaction being in the same shot, and making sure that you’re not match-cutting on the impact makes a massive difference, and he also covers a good bit about longer cuts and feeling the rhythm of a fight as well (like before, the whole video is excellent, but I’ll jump in to where it’s most relevant, and if you want to jump out 6:30 is where it deviates off from what I’m talking about).
What’s cool is that you can actually watch them testing out how best to convey a sort of anime-like quick action combat, but still make sure that everything that’s happening reads visually in live action in the 3 Alita trailers so far. The most interesting one for me is with one specific scene composed of 3 shots. (There are a couple more that I’ll mention after I wrap up the tl;dr-ing about this one). The scene I’m referring to is the one where Zapan goes to grab Alita and she slams his face through a table.
Here’s how I’m gonna break it down:
• Establishing Shot: Zapan is in a bit of a standoff, and reaches out to grab Alita (who is off camera).
• Action Shot: You see Zapan hit Alita, and she counters by reaching under, grabs him by the throat, and pulls him down, out of frame.
• Impact shot: She smashes his head through a table.
Trailer 1 @ 1:22 (72 frames)
• 35 frames (Establishing shot of his face move to attack)
• 26 frames (Action shot of her counterattack)
• 11 frames (Impact shot of his smashing the table)
• We’re using this one as a baseline.
• The Establishing Shot just conveys the sudden speed of movement, since Alita’s not in the shot, the cut just after make it feel like a surprise when compared to the stillness before.
• The Action Shot re-establishes a couple frames of his movement before the hit. Then, because this scene has both of them in it, you get to see the action and reaction of him hitting her, as well as her countering and grabbing him, and pulling him down out of frame.
• The Impact Shot is the only one where the camera moves. It starts out static and gives us a couple of frames to see the table still before he’s slammed through it. Then, the camera remains as the hit happens, and only pans down to follows him after the impact hits. This means that it maintains the weight of the impact, doesn’t cover for the hit the way shakycam does for actors who can’t fight, and also doesn’t move until it needs to reestablish the character in the shot post-impact.
• Overall, all of the action is really quick and snappy and gives the impression that they’re faster-than-human as a result of being cyborgs and helps to give the impression of superhuman reflexes. That being said, everything that happens reads REALLY fast and almost seems to be one continuous flow from him reaching to getting driven through the table.
• It’s worth noting that there are no audio effects added in here aside from just what you’d expect to hear in the scene itself, although there are two light, almost heartbeat-like pulses with each hit, but they’re mostly covered by the musical crescendo in the trailer. The table smash is used as the cue to cutting off the music as well.
With that trailer as our baseline, let’s see what the other trailers do with these 3 shots.
Trailer 2 @ 1:53 (46 frames)
• 9 frames (Establishing shot of his face move to attack)
• 26 frames (Action shot of her counterattack)
• 11 frames (Impact shot of his smashing the table)
• The only visual change involves cutting down the Establishing Shot from 35 frames to 9 frames. This makes it look like Alita is reacting almost preemptively reacting to his attack, but it doesn’t change the speed of any of the action, just the time before it’s delivered. There isn’t actually any editing to the scene content itself visually, but just trimming for the trailer.
• There is foley now of a percussive roll added to the audio for their movements and a metallic clang as they impact. They’re almost the same sound, but Alita’s are toned at a slightly higher pitch, so that they sound both faster as well as more distinct, since following her action is more important. While there isn’t a change to the action on screen, these audio cues are put in place to help the viewers follow the rhythm of the action on-screen, to make it clear that it’s made of 3 specific hits. Rather than a blur of motion, each action of combat is punctuated to help the audience follow it.
• There’s some audible foley of wood hitting the ground this time as Zapan’s head breaks the table, which may also be because, while the musical cut is similar, in this trailer isn’t used as the final crescendo. Since it cuts back from black relatively shortly thereafter, the audio from the scene won’t interrupt the hard cut to silence.
Overall, this cut is still just 64% of the original, and it feels snappier, despite the actual scenes of action taking place being the same length.
Trailer 3 @ 1:38 (113 frames)
• 26 frames (Establishing shot of his face move to attack)
• 36 frames (Action shot of her counterattack)
• 16 frames (Impact shot of his smashing the table)
• The Establishing Shot is 26 frames, which means that the same amount was shown in the second trailer (9 frames) was what was removed from the original for the third trailer, so it’s a nice balance for the trailer pacing. Again, this is just changing the length of the introduction, which means that it’s likely a trailer-specific alteration to how much of the scene that they’re using, rather than something we’ll actually see in the film itself.
• The Action Shot is 36 frames, and this one HAS changed in the actual cut of the film. Every action aside from Zapan’s hit (which carries through movement established from the previous shot) has 2-3 frames added to it, so that it reads more clearly resulting in this shot being almost 40% longer than the original version. There’s more time taken to read the specifics of every single motion that happens, so that the action reads MUCH more clearly, and each move of what’s happening can be picked out, while not making it feel like it’s happening slowly.
• The Zapan’s initial move and hit, as well as Alita’s first move and hit are still accompanied by the same foley audio cues for movement and impact as Trailer 2. However, on Alita’s hit, there’s also some ADR of Zapan yelling as she grabs his throat to call out her hit as being more dangerous even before she slams him through the table, compared to his, where she barely flinches.
• The Impact Shot is just a single frame longer on the move to hit the table. Everything after that is just longer tracking after the impact, which – like with trimming the start of the establishing shot with Trailer 2 – is likely just trimming to fit for the trailer, rather than edits in the film itself.
• There’re also foley effects for the impact of his through the table, though this has changed since Trailer 2 to be more of a smash sound to accentuate the impact, and not just the sound of a wooden table breaking.
That’s how all of these TINY little editing techniques about not matching continuity when changing cuts for a hit in action, framing action & reaction in the same shot, building rhythm with foley and timing, and looking at how even a couple frames can make all the difference compiled together in just 3 shots of a film.
What’s most interesting about this scene in particular being changed is that there’s another scene in the same bar area, where Alita knocks beer bottles up off a table, pivots in the air, and kicks them into the two guys’ faces who were seated at the table. In that scene, they’re using slow-motion to accomplish multiple things in that shot. It manages to ensure that the action of what she’s doing reads clearly by isolating her with the beer bottles and an out-of-focus background (like Wes Anderson reducing visual information during a quick cut). Additionally, slow-motion itself is also informing the viewer that she’s moving even MORE quickly than she seems by communicating that it’s necessary to slow down to show the viewer the ways where she’s moving to quickly to track with the naked eye. That also helps to make up for slightly slowing down the action in the earlier scene to make it easier to read, because we still understand it's happening at super-human speeds.
What’s clear is that this isn’t just coincidence, it’s DAMNED good editing. You can see how they’re intentionally going back to each little moment of action and making sure that everything that happens in them reads in every shot, as well as in the transitions between the shots. You can see other examples of this in the Rollerball sequences. The shots are all VERY steady, framing Alita so that you can clearly catch her movements, as well as the important movements of what’s moving towards her. From how they’re done, you can also determine if she’s either reacting to it out of surprise, or if she’s intentionally coordinating a counterattack.
There’re 3 scenes at 1:46 in Trailer 3: Her grabbing a spike and kicking a guy, then another of an explosion hitting barely behind her, and then another of her being chased and a blade attached to a cable barely missing her head. All of those brief scenes are steady, Alita is clearly framed, and her motion is readable to the audience.
That last scene of those is just two shots, but it shows how well they understand how you have to edit between attacks to make that quick action followable. Alita goes off camera looking forward, and the space where she just was is replaced by the enemy’s thrown blade, that follows her off camera in exactly the same direction. Then in the new shot, Alita is looking back and that holds for a few frames, so that we register her react with surprise to the blade coming at her with the change of expression on her face, as well as her moving out of the way to dodge it. It’s intentionally not matching continuity to give you time to process the change of scene, because if it did, we’d either miss the throw following her off screen, or we’d cut straight to her reaction without having time to register it.
Very clearly, I could go on for DAYS about this stuff, but hopefully this’ll give you a sense of what kind of work they’re doing JUST with editing to make this film FEEL like an anime in all of the dynamic ways it ought to, while also obeying all the rules of what make action work well on film for live-action.
X
Aaaand I did. In probably the most detail ever.
So if you want an appreciation for action editing in film and how they’re using a lot of really excellent techniques to assist in overcoming some of the difficulties in translating something from traditional animation to live-action, this post is most likely something you’ll enjoy a bunch. If not, don’t feel the need to get sucked in to all of this tl;dr.
First, I want to touch on the differences in how quickly it’s possible to communicate information to viewers via animation vs. live action, because of the density of what’s shown on screen. There’s a part from this video by Every Frame a Painting that touches on how Satoshi Kon didn’t want to do live action, because animation let him make faster cuts because you can follow information faster and in fewer frames. What animation can convey in 6-10 frames can take live action 10-49 frames (The whole video’s good, but through 6:15 is really what I’m getting at).
Naturally that’s a complication that exists when accurately adapting the feel of something like Alita’s “the most advanced weapon ever” cybernetic combat. You want to everything to still FEEL like the ultra-fast pacing you’d get in an anime, but you don’t want to have to completely resort to Wes Anderson tactics to do so (but I will address that as well). There are ways to still manage to have the specific moves of the content on screen presented so that the audience can them pick up as clearly, but still make them feel incredibly fast and superhuman the way that they would feel in an anime.
So, now that we’ve established a little bit about the limitations of how quickly you can convey something in animation vs. live-action, let’s ALSO look at how you translate action scenes effectively in live-action. While anime can frame movements really quickly and still have them read, live-action has to be a little slower. Having a lot of the action scenes done as CGI animation affords them the opportunity to do longer cuts that’re more difficult with live action, which lets the hits of action in those cuts be a little bit quicker, while also getting dynamic camera shots like anime would. However, to make it feel more natural and visceral, it’s going to cut a bit more like a standard film for anything that isn’t just huge spectacle, so it needs to know how to make action read well.
To get an idea of how much of a difference something very small, like 3 frames can make in fast-paced live-action combat scenes, there’s this video of Jackie Chan talking about the importance of framing, camera movement, editing, and how to reestablish movement when changing a shot. Action & reaction being in the same shot, and making sure that you’re not match-cutting on the impact makes a massive difference, and he also covers a good bit about longer cuts and feeling the rhythm of a fight as well (like before, the whole video is excellent, but I’ll jump in to where it’s most relevant, and if you want to jump out 6:30 is where it deviates off from what I’m talking about).
What’s cool is that you can actually watch them testing out how best to convey a sort of anime-like quick action combat, but still make sure that everything that’s happening reads visually in live action in the 3 Alita trailers so far. The most interesting one for me is with one specific scene composed of 3 shots. (There are a couple more that I’ll mention after I wrap up the tl;dr-ing about this one). The scene I’m referring to is the one where Zapan goes to grab Alita and she slams his face through a table.
Here’s how I’m gonna break it down:
• Establishing Shot: Zapan is in a bit of a standoff, and reaches out to grab Alita (who is off camera).
• Action Shot: You see Zapan hit Alita, and she counters by reaching under, grabs him by the throat, and pulls him down, out of frame.
• Impact shot: She smashes his head through a table.
Trailer 1 @ 1:22 (72 frames)
• 26 frames (Action shot of her counterattack)
• 11 frames (Impact shot of his smashing the table)
Establishing Shot
• 32 frames: standing
• 3 frames: move to grab
Action Shot
• 4 frames: impact
• 5 frames: stand
• 4 frames: move back & grab
• 8 frames: pull back
• 5 frames: yank down
Impact Shot
• 3 frames: to hit
• 4 frames: breaking table
• 4 frames: tracking down w/ hit
• 32 frames: standing
• 3 frames: move to grab
Action Shot
• 4 frames: impact
• 5 frames: stand
• 4 frames: move back & grab
• 8 frames: pull back
• 5 frames: yank down
Impact Shot
• 3 frames: to hit
• 4 frames: breaking table
• 4 frames: tracking down w/ hit
• We’re using this one as a baseline.
• The Establishing Shot just conveys the sudden speed of movement, since Alita’s not in the shot, the cut just after make it feel like a surprise when compared to the stillness before.
• The Action Shot re-establishes a couple frames of his movement before the hit. Then, because this scene has both of them in it, you get to see the action and reaction of him hitting her, as well as her countering and grabbing him, and pulling him down out of frame.
• The Impact Shot is the only one where the camera moves. It starts out static and gives us a couple of frames to see the table still before he’s slammed through it. Then, the camera remains as the hit happens, and only pans down to follows him after the impact hits. This means that it maintains the weight of the impact, doesn’t cover for the hit the way shakycam does for actors who can’t fight, and also doesn’t move until it needs to reestablish the character in the shot post-impact.
• Overall, all of the action is really quick and snappy and gives the impression that they’re faster-than-human as a result of being cyborgs and helps to give the impression of superhuman reflexes. That being said, everything that happens reads REALLY fast and almost seems to be one continuous flow from him reaching to getting driven through the table.
• It’s worth noting that there are no audio effects added in here aside from just what you’d expect to hear in the scene itself, although there are two light, almost heartbeat-like pulses with each hit, but they’re mostly covered by the musical crescendo in the trailer. The table smash is used as the cue to cutting off the music as well.
With that trailer as our baseline, let’s see what the other trailers do with these 3 shots.
Trailer 2 @ 1:53 (46 frames)
• 26 frames (Action shot of her counterattack)
• 11 frames (Impact shot of his smashing the table)
Establishing Shot
• 6 frames: standing (250% shorter than original by starting later)
• 3 frames: move to grab
Action Shot
• 4 frames: impact
• 5 frames: stand
• 4 frames: move back & grab
• 8 frames: pull back
• 5 frames: yank down
Impact Shot
• 3 frames: to hit
• 4 frames: breaking table
• 4 frames: tracking down w/ hit
• 6 frames: standing (250% shorter than original by starting later)
• 3 frames: move to grab
Action Shot
• 4 frames: impact
• 5 frames: stand
• 4 frames: move back & grab
• 8 frames: pull back
• 5 frames: yank down
Impact Shot
• 3 frames: to hit
• 4 frames: breaking table
• 4 frames: tracking down w/ hit
• The only visual change involves cutting down the Establishing Shot from 35 frames to 9 frames. This makes it look like Alita is reacting almost preemptively reacting to his attack, but it doesn’t change the speed of any of the action, just the time before it’s delivered. There isn’t actually any editing to the scene content itself visually, but just trimming for the trailer.
• There is foley now of a percussive roll added to the audio for their movements and a metallic clang as they impact. They’re almost the same sound, but Alita’s are toned at a slightly higher pitch, so that they sound both faster as well as more distinct, since following her action is more important. While there isn’t a change to the action on screen, these audio cues are put in place to help the viewers follow the rhythm of the action on-screen, to make it clear that it’s made of 3 specific hits. Rather than a blur of motion, each action of combat is punctuated to help the audience follow it.
• There’s some audible foley of wood hitting the ground this time as Zapan’s head breaks the table, which may also be because, while the musical cut is similar, in this trailer isn’t used as the final crescendo. Since it cuts back from black relatively shortly thereafter, the audio from the scene won’t interrupt the hard cut to silence.
Overall, this cut is still just 64% of the original, and it feels snappier, despite the actual scenes of action taking place being the same length.
Trailer 3 @ 1:38 (113 frames)
• 36 frames (Action shot of her counterattack)
• 16 frames (Impact shot of his smashing the table)
Establishing Shot
• 23 frames: standing (40% shorter than original by starting later)
• 3 frames: move to grab
Action Shot
• 4 frames: impact
• 8 frames: stand (60% longer than original)
• 6 frames: move back & grab (50% longer than original)
• 10 frames: pull back (25% longer than original)
• 8 frames: yank down (60% longer than original)
Impact Shot
• 4 frames: to hit (33% longer than original)
• 4 frames: breaking table
• 8 frames: tracking down w/ hit (100% longer than original by ending later)
• 23 frames: standing (40% shorter than original by starting later)
• 3 frames: move to grab
Action Shot
• 4 frames: impact
• 8 frames: stand (60% longer than original)
• 6 frames: move back & grab (50% longer than original)
• 10 frames: pull back (25% longer than original)
• 8 frames: yank down (60% longer than original)
Impact Shot
• 4 frames: to hit (33% longer than original)
• 4 frames: breaking table
• 8 frames: tracking down w/ hit (100% longer than original by ending later)
• The Establishing Shot is 26 frames, which means that the same amount was shown in the second trailer (9 frames) was what was removed from the original for the third trailer, so it’s a nice balance for the trailer pacing. Again, this is just changing the length of the introduction, which means that it’s likely a trailer-specific alteration to how much of the scene that they’re using, rather than something we’ll actually see in the film itself.
• The Action Shot is 36 frames, and this one HAS changed in the actual cut of the film. Every action aside from Zapan’s hit (which carries through movement established from the previous shot) has 2-3 frames added to it, so that it reads more clearly resulting in this shot being almost 40% longer than the original version. There’s more time taken to read the specifics of every single motion that happens, so that the action reads MUCH more clearly, and each move of what’s happening can be picked out, while not making it feel like it’s happening slowly.
• The Zapan’s initial move and hit, as well as Alita’s first move and hit are still accompanied by the same foley audio cues for movement and impact as Trailer 2. However, on Alita’s hit, there’s also some ADR of Zapan yelling as she grabs his throat to call out her hit as being more dangerous even before she slams him through the table, compared to his, where she barely flinches.
• The Impact Shot is just a single frame longer on the move to hit the table. Everything after that is just longer tracking after the impact, which – like with trimming the start of the establishing shot with Trailer 2 – is likely just trimming to fit for the trailer, rather than edits in the film itself.
• There’re also foley effects for the impact of his through the table, though this has changed since Trailer 2 to be more of a smash sound to accentuate the impact, and not just the sound of a wooden table breaking.
That’s how all of these TINY little editing techniques about not matching continuity when changing cuts for a hit in action, framing action & reaction in the same shot, building rhythm with foley and timing, and looking at how even a couple frames can make all the difference compiled together in just 3 shots of a film.
What’s most interesting about this scene in particular being changed is that there’s another scene in the same bar area, where Alita knocks beer bottles up off a table, pivots in the air, and kicks them into the two guys’ faces who were seated at the table. In that scene, they’re using slow-motion to accomplish multiple things in that shot. It manages to ensure that the action of what she’s doing reads clearly by isolating her with the beer bottles and an out-of-focus background (like Wes Anderson reducing visual information during a quick cut). Additionally, slow-motion itself is also informing the viewer that she’s moving even MORE quickly than she seems by communicating that it’s necessary to slow down to show the viewer the ways where she’s moving to quickly to track with the naked eye. That also helps to make up for slightly slowing down the action in the earlier scene to make it easier to read, because we still understand it's happening at super-human speeds.
Initiation Shot: (17 frames)
• 5 frames: table lift
• 12 frames: her jumping & pivoting & bottles lifting up
Slow Motion: (17 frames)
• 5 frames: re-establishing her speed & rotation
• 7 frames: bottle kick left
• 5 frames: bottle kick right
Impact Scene Left: (11 frames)
• 4 frames: to beer bottle hit
• 7 frames: impact & recoil
Impact Scene Right: (20 frames)
• 4 frames: to beer bottle hit
• 16 frames: impact & recoil
• 5 frames: table lift
• 12 frames: her jumping & pivoting & bottles lifting up
Slow Motion: (17 frames)
• 5 frames: re-establishing her speed & rotation
• 7 frames: bottle kick left
• 5 frames: bottle kick right
Impact Scene Left: (11 frames)
• 4 frames: to beer bottle hit
• 7 frames: impact & recoil
Impact Scene Right: (20 frames)
• 4 frames: to beer bottle hit
• 16 frames: impact & recoil
What’s clear is that this isn’t just coincidence, it’s DAMNED good editing. You can see how they’re intentionally going back to each little moment of action and making sure that everything that happens in them reads in every shot, as well as in the transitions between the shots. You can see other examples of this in the Rollerball sequences. The shots are all VERY steady, framing Alita so that you can clearly catch her movements, as well as the important movements of what’s moving towards her. From how they’re done, you can also determine if she’s either reacting to it out of surprise, or if she’s intentionally coordinating a counterattack.
There’re 3 scenes at 1:46 in Trailer 3: Her grabbing a spike and kicking a guy, then another of an explosion hitting barely behind her, and then another of her being chased and a blade attached to a cable barely missing her head. All of those brief scenes are steady, Alita is clearly framed, and her motion is readable to the audience.
That last scene of those is just two shots, but it shows how well they understand how you have to edit between attacks to make that quick action followable. Alita goes off camera looking forward, and the space where she just was is replaced by the enemy’s thrown blade, that follows her off camera in exactly the same direction. Then in the new shot, Alita is looking back and that holds for a few frames, so that we register her react with surprise to the blade coming at her with the change of expression on her face, as well as her moving out of the way to dodge it. It’s intentionally not matching continuity to give you time to process the change of scene, because if it did, we’d either miss the throw following her off screen, or we’d cut straight to her reaction without having time to register it.
Shot 1
• 13 frames: Alita runs off screen looking forward.
• 3 frames: empty space being replaced with the thrown blade.
• 4 frames: blade growing and visible
• 8 frames: blade off camera
Shot 2
• 8 frames: Alita looking back
• 6 frames: blade enters shot next to her, expression becoming surprised
• 10 frames: she turns, watching it passing her as she continues to lean back.
• 13 frames: Alita runs off screen looking forward.
• 3 frames: empty space being replaced with the thrown blade.
• 4 frames: blade growing and visible
• 8 frames: blade off camera
Shot 2
• 8 frames: Alita looking back
• 6 frames: blade enters shot next to her, expression becoming surprised
• 10 frames: she turns, watching it passing her as she continues to lean back.
Very clearly, I could go on for DAYS about this stuff, but hopefully this’ll give you a sense of what kind of work they’re doing JUST with editing to make this film FEEL like an anime in all of the dynamic ways it ought to, while also obeying all the rules of what make action work well on film for live-action.
X
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
Reviews are out
https://www.metacritic.com/movie/alita-battle-angel
+Best enjoyed for the action & performance
-cramming too much stuff to the point of not having enough room & time to properly develop any of them
-by the above, lacking in substance
https://www.metacritic.com/movie/alita-battle-angel
+Best enjoyed for the action & performance
-cramming too much stuff to the point of not having enough room & time to properly develop any of them
-by the above, lacking in substance
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Not knowing this story at all, but having glimpsed the trailer (in French) at a train station yesterday, my burning question is this: why are her eyes unnaturally enormous? Is she not human?
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
1) She's not human, she's a cyborg. That lets them play with those proportions however they want from an in-world standpoint.
2) They're attempting to capture a bit of the manga's aesthetic while still using the live-action format.
3) They're using both of those to help sell the sense that she and others are always loosely aware that she's somewhat different from all of them.
X
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I honestly don't think I could watch it. The eyes are just so off-putting.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Some little spoilers:
I love when you listen to James Cameron talk about things, because you instantly get a REALLY good sense of how much they love and understand the material. Also, for all of the tl;dr animation stuff I mentioned earlier – I didn't know that Robert Rodriguez was a cartoonist before becoming a director, but that all DEFINITELY makes sense now.
X
I love when you listen to James Cameron talk about things, because you instantly get a REALLY good sense of how much they love and understand the material. Also, for all of the tl;dr animation stuff I mentioned earlier – I didn't know that Robert Rodriguez was a cartoonist before becoming a director, but that all DEFINITELY makes sense now.
X
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
So I saw this, and I have some thoughts.
Visually - this film is phenomenal. The action was absolutely superb and excellently executed. The things that the movie does well are unclockable.
Unfortunately, the script/story is a level of camp that will put a lot of people off. Whether you're familiar with the source material or not, this has the potential to impede on the film's enjoyability. For me personally, I feel like the campiness of it all was in line with the kind of movie that they were trying to make. This a really fun Robert Rodriguez movie, and if you don't care for any of his other stuff, you'll probably not like this one.
As far as an adaptation, it's a bit of a mixed bag. This was the first manga I read way back in the day on crappy scanlation sites. I didn't keep up with it, but my memories of it had a completely different tone than what they put on screen. Don't get me wrong - this movie is very anime. Which is freaking awesome to anyone who has ever enjoyed an anime in their life. However, the translation of literal anime tropes come across very differently in a big budget, live action, western movie. Alita always struck me as a sad and somber story, ala Ghost in the Shell. Stuff that happens in this movie could occur exactly as is in an anime without it intruding on a serious mood. That being said, the movie is very self aware with how ridiculous this stuff comes across in its own format.
Anyways, my only real complaint about this movie is that it definitely felt like it was holding back. You realize pretty quick that this is only the intro to a much bigger story, and we haven't even seen half of what Alita can do. I really hope this movie does well, because I think it honestly deserves it, and I am pumped to see that sequel.
TLDR: Loved it, hope they make another one.
Visually - this film is phenomenal. The action was absolutely superb and excellently executed. The things that the movie does well are unclockable.
Unfortunately, the script/story is a level of camp that will put a lot of people off. Whether you're familiar with the source material or not, this has the potential to impede on the film's enjoyability. For me personally, I feel like the campiness of it all was in line with the kind of movie that they were trying to make. This a really fun Robert Rodriguez movie, and if you don't care for any of his other stuff, you'll probably not like this one.
As far as an adaptation, it's a bit of a mixed bag. This was the first manga I read way back in the day on crappy scanlation sites. I didn't keep up with it, but my memories of it had a completely different tone than what they put on screen. Don't get me wrong - this movie is very anime. Which is freaking awesome to anyone who has ever enjoyed an anime in their life. However, the translation of literal anime tropes come across very differently in a big budget, live action, western movie. Alita always struck me as a sad and somber story, ala Ghost in the Shell. Stuff that happens in this movie could occur exactly as is in an anime without it intruding on a serious mood. That being said, the movie is very self aware with how ridiculous this stuff comes across in its own format.
Anyways, my only real complaint about this movie is that it definitely felt like it was holding back. You realize pretty quick that this is only the intro to a much bigger story, and we haven't even seen half of what Alita can do. I really hope this movie does well, because I think it honestly deserves it, and I am pumped to see that sequel.
TLDR: Loved it, hope they make another one.
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Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
As someone who's generally a fan of Robert Rodriguez, I definitely enjoyed the film. I was actually pretty surprised with the level of violence that they managed to get away with, without pushing up the rating – the fight in the underground specifically. I'm re-reading the manga now, since I hadn't read it properly, but read through any volumes that my local Barnes & Noble had whenever I was there back when I was still a teen living at home. A buddy of mine who's a longtime fan of Alita is seeing it tonight, so I'll be quite interested to see what he thinks about it!
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Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
i saw from the trailers/commercials that it seemed to feature the motorball arc? and i audibly say to myself 'oh no' because my memories of reading the manga tell me i enjoyed that one the least. i might read it again and think about seeing the film, or have to leave it until it's streaming/on bluray because i couldn't afford the cinema ticket
i might also finally read last order past the first book (i didn't have anything against it, i just only had one book)
i've got a bit of a soft spot for alita, it was maybe one of the first anime i ever saw (back when they used to show them late at night because i'm old) and i've always remembered it. i read the manga a lot later but enjoyed that too. but i think i have ambivalent feelings towards this kind of big budget western adaptations that i just can't shake
except for the 1991 guyver film, which was my jam as a kid when i didn't know it was based on anything
i might also finally read last order past the first book (i didn't have anything against it, i just only had one book)
i've got a bit of a soft spot for alita, it was maybe one of the first anime i ever saw (back when they used to show them late at night because i'm old) and i've always remembered it. i read the manga a lot later but enjoyed that too. but i think i have ambivalent feelings towards this kind of big budget western adaptations that i just can't shake
except for the 1991 guyver film, which was my jam as a kid when i didn't know it was based on anything
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
These two videos cover the content in a non-spoiler way that I think you'll properly appreciate, @Strangelove
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Shademp
420
Just came home from watching this in the cinema.
It was a beautiful experience. The main character melts your heart. The world is a joy to see unfolded as you're learning about it along with Alita. The action scenes are satisfying. An impressive movie on many levels.
You can tell there are some structural issues from adapting manga arcs into a single movie. But compared to most other attempts at adapting a manga and/or anime into live action this one performs beautifully.
It was a beautiful experience. The main character melts your heart. The world is a joy to see unfolded as you're learning about it along with Alita. The action scenes are satisfying. An impressive movie on many levels.
You can tell there are some structural issues from adapting manga arcs into a single movie. But compared to most other attempts at adapting a manga and/or anime into live action this one performs beautifully.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
This featurette on building Iron City (97,000 square feet) is MIND-BLOWING. It doesn't embed, but you DEFINITELY need to go check it out: https://io9.gizmodo.com/watch-alita-battle-angels-iron-city-get-built-from-the-1835922210
I think it's exclusive to io9 for now, but dear GODS.
Also, here's another great bit of BTS from the film.
I cannot WAIT to finally own this.
It's just... it's something else, man.
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I think it's exclusive to io9 for now, but dear GODS.
Also, here's another great bit of BTS from the film.
I cannot WAIT to finally own this.
It's just... it's something else, man.
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Also, Alita has been #1 on BluRay/DVD sales for two weeks in a row:
https://www.mediaplaynews.com/alita-battles-on-tops-disc-sales-for-second-week/
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