All-New/Extrordinary/Uncanny X-Men (2013-current) [Marvel]

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Harbinger O Great Justice
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The premise of "Secret Wars" will be as close to a paradox resolution as we see -- all previously existing universes will be destroyed.
Yet another reason that I'm very happy about said event actually happening.

Fair enough. I will point out, though, that young Bobby doesn't indicate that this is a new thing for him. He says he had thought he was crazy. If it could just be attributed to the prior few days (the events of "The Black Vortex"), then he would likely say so.

So, at 15-16, the Iceman of the present would have been in the same place as this Bobby of the past.
True for when he VERY first got pulled into this timeline. Young!Iceman's DRASTICALLY self-evaluating life experiences of living in a new and more progressive era for homosexuality, seeing how his future self ended up, being a cosmically advanced version of himself, and then returning back to who he was before, but still being altered, and still existing in the current time, I think that his sexuality is becoming less repressed, which (in addition to being nosy as fuck) is why Jean commented on it now, but never did before. I think seeing how he did and could end up may have changed how his attractions are expressed -- even at a more conscious level are affected in ways that will make him different from the Iceman of the main timeline of the same age.

I think that the whole of this means that he's focused on that aspect of himself more than he would've had he not been subject to said events. I'd say it's a less plot-focused version of how Tyke-lops felt seeing "turrorist" Cyclops being someone who grew up to become in a way that he might've not found to be idea or true to how he feels himself to be now, or how Jean & Angel learned all the shit about themselves and their shitty futures. This is Iceman's version of that.

He really has, yeah. It's just that the revelations about him have gotten ever more douchey over the years.

It really has been going on for decades, though. Which isn't to say his heart wasn't in the right place, but he still did lots of fucked shit.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions sums up a lot of recent X-Men revelations and actions.




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The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
Having followed it since before I could read, it's never felt difficult to me, but that's probably in much the same way that a language isn't difficult when you grew up with it.




In other news, though I appreciate what he's trying to do, I've decided I really don't like how Bendis wrote Iceman's outing (shocked? :awesome:).

As others have noted elsewhere, you've got Jean controlling the conversation rather than gently guiding it. Maybe the "tough love" approach is what some people need, but I feel we hadn't seen enough denial from this Bobby and consequent anguish to warrant that.

Bendis would have served Teen Jean's character and LGBTQ folks in the real world better by having her offer Bobby reassurance that emboldened him to confide in her. Props for writing it such that Bobby was the one to speculate on what the story with his older self is, though, rather than Jean just continuing on as ye mighty sage, but it also should have been him to decide on the firm position that he's "full gay."

When he suggested that maybe he's bi, she should have asked him "What do you think?" and it then been Bobby himself who dismissed that. Really, even if the tough love approach had been necessary, this conclusion should have come from Bobby himself.

It's well and good that it worked out for the character and provided him relief. I just don't like the implications it may impart to those who are well intended yet may end up doing some harm.
 

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Harbinger O Great Justice
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I agree with ya Tres, and I'm waiting ta see what all comes out of UXM #600 in regards to all of this, (though I'm really hoping to see a proper conclusion to Cyclops' arc that redeems everything a little bit).

In regards to Jean's psychic snooping: Everyone's been getting sick of her invasive shit lately, and it's a relatively newly developed power, so she's extra shitty about boundaries (moreso than normal).



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though I'm really hoping to see a proper conclusion to Cyclops' arc that redeems everything a little bit).
So I heard Cyclops was going off the deep-end Magneto style. Is that true? Why is everyone so sad in comics all the damn time?
 

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Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
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So I heard Cyclops was going off the deep-end Magneto style. Is that true? Why is everyone so sad in comics all the damn time?
Yeah, he very nearly went down the path Magneto once did. Magnus himself even showed up to tell him to chill out.

Also, 'cause comics. :monster:
That's... subject to interpretation.

I, for one, still stand by Cyclops' stance towards all of the things that he's done during/post-AvX, and I wouldn't call his state of being sad (with the exception of the latest nonsense). There's a lot of internal Mutant strife at the core of the story, but most of UXM is about his development arc, and it's been the catalyst that got me back into reading comics. Cyclops' long been my favourite character, and I'm a huge fan of what he's gone through, how he's changed, and why.



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The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
Oh, it's been a great direction for him, don't get me wrong. I also don't blame him for any of "Avengers vs. X-Men."

He definitely went a little too far, though, by my reckoning with that whole bring-Matthew-Malloy-into-the-mutant-revolution thing, though. That could have been a bigger disaster than it was.
 

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Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Oh, it's been a great direction for him, don't get me wrong. I also don't blame him for any of "Avengers vs. X-Men."

He definitely went a little too far, though, by my reckoning with that whole bring-Matthew-Malloy-into-the-mutant-revolution thing, though. That could have been a bigger disaster than it was.
Really, UXM 23-29 was a revisit of Cyclops using cosmic power with a refreshed perspective with what went down with AvX.

Literally All I wanted to see (and still do) was him & Magik use the Eye of Agamotto to find out what was really up with Matthew Malloy and if he was someone that they could've kept around and turned towards good. That was a really good plan, and all I wanted was to see that last solution of theirs played out, and for them to act accordingly. (But instead, SHIELD fucked it up, wasn't held accountable, and everything was Time-Travel Ctrl+Z'd by Tempus & Charles Xavier and all of Cyclops' development from issues 23-29 that got fucked because of it).

Matthew was a liability and a huge danger because of the fact that he had near-godlike powers, yes. BUT this is especially relevant with the whole shit that happened with the Black Vortexed Three vs. what went down when Scott was in control of a Cosmic power -- which also applies to Young!BlackVortexed!Cyclops being totally solid in submitting to that power. Cyclops is a good bet for those things as much as other people don't seem to trust him. Matthew only 100% lost his shit AFTER Cyclops was removed from the picture.

If there's anyone I trust to know how to approach cosmic power in a way that it needs to be, it's Cyclops. I could go into really really deep tl;dr detail about how literally everything that he did with Matthew was exactly everything that SHOULD have been done with him while he had the Phoenix Force that would've prevented him from going Dark Phoenix (which is what most all of that arc was about, and why when Professor X stepped in via Tempus to mop things up, I saw it as a really painful repeat of Professor X's final moments in AvX -- and making me really hate him & Tempus for it and their hypocritical attitudes towards it).




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The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
Well, Charles from the past didn't have the perspective of AvX's events to look at all that from anyway, and Tempus was just trying to stop the end of the world (which she succeeded in). I do agree with you, though, that Cyclops is as good a choice now as anyone to hold that kind of power, and I expect we'll see him do something quite grand with that Phoenix Egg he's been talking about over in "Time Runs Out."
 

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Harbinger O Great Justice
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X
Well, Charles from the past didn't have the perspective of AvX's events to look at all that from anyway, and Tempus was just trying to stop the end of the world (which she succeeded in). I do agree with you, though, that Cyclops is as good a choice now as anyone to hold that kind of power, and I expect we'll see him do something quite grand with that Phoenix Egg he's been talking about over in "Time Runs Out."
Oh yeah I know that. I'm just saying that from a story perspective seeing Charles come in and fuck up Scott's final hope at attempting to use a cosmic power for good, and then have the repercussions overly strongly push Scott (and no one else) into a highly negative place was really infuriating. It also reinforces that Tempus is someone I least trust with her level of reality-altering powers.

I do look forward to Cyclops' (likely) final play with that Phoenix Egg -- in addition to finally finding out where in the holy fuck that it came from.



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The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
I'm curious to see whether he'll be able to convince Tempus that he knows what he's doing this time. She's probably no more likely to trust in him now than when she warned him to get his shit together.
 

The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
On Facebook, North Carolina evangelist Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham, calls Iceman revelation "another attempt to indoctrinate young people to accept this destructive lifestyle"

I've already posted my response in comments:
I said:
Franklin, how about you a) stop embarrassing our state, and b) FRANKLY (is this pun wasted on you?), stop embarrassing everyone of faith by associating your arrogance, bigotry and hate with a message of love?

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." -John 13:34

That's all it should boil down to. Why don't you try it sometime?


And in other news, a look at Iceman's history that may offer insight into his repression. Of course, there's no blatant hints about him being gay (at most, some vague jokes that could be seen a couple ways), but there's years of blatant depictions of him as repressed in various ways, such that this is hardly a difficult pill to swallow. Actually, the line from his dad about trotting out a "circus act" of different girlfriends he brings home may be a pretty solid thing to build from. I'd forgotten that one, even though I have that issue.

Anyway, I agree with this article's author that this is the roadmap Bendis is working from.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

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TresDias
If only Bendis wrote comics as well as he responds to questions about Iceman being revealed as gay:

Bendis said:
ange-gardien said:
After all the backlash you've received for the Bobby Drake situation, how do you plan on approaching future LGBTQ related topics? Do you think you will approach more people who identify with the LGBTQ community in order to further understand the people who you are writing? How did you expect those to who identify within the LGBTQ community to react to the thoroughly invasive, unwarranted "outing" that Jean Grey forced on Bobby Drake?
I used to work at a newspaper and I learned that anything you say about sex and politics, anything, is going to make half the people who read what you’ve written VEHEMENTLY disagree with you. Including that last sentence. Some people go their whole career hiding from this and some people embrace it.

I DO feel really bad that anyone would read biphobia in the work because I have absolutely none in my heart. None. If I could make that part go away I would. Who wants anyone to feel bad about anything? my whole life is dedicated to the opposite.

BUT, and this is the tricky part, I’ve now heard from enough people who label themselves as bisexual who were not at all offended by anything that happened in the issue and even related to it. They were offended that people were offended. Enough people have spoken to me about this for me to know that whatever YOUR feeling is on bisexuality or yourself as bisexual it is completely legit but it is not a complete universal feeling.  Again, a lot of these comments are public so you can see I am not fibbing… but who am I to believe? You or them?

For those looking for representation into their specific worldview, here is the rub, there is no scene in the history of fiction that is universally the definitive statement on anything. It does not exist. It can’t be accomplished.  What I’ve learned is the more specific you are in the story the more universal certain elements of that story will reveal themselves to be.  Even with psychic powers and ice powers and time travel many people identified with the scene.

More people are angry about Jean ‘abusing her powers’ then just about anything else in the scene… at least the people who are confronting me.  When they tell me how angry they are they tell me that somebody in their life did the non-psychic version of that to them.   But I knew that things like this happen.  I have seen it with my own eyes.  So should i NOT write about it?

You point to the people who are upset about the scene but there are also many many many people from many walks of life who have gotten a hold of me using every social media to tell me how much they appreciated it, how much they identified with it and how they too were confronted with their sexuality before they were ready and it was nice to see that represented. To ignore the outpouring of good thoughts and feelings that you can easily see on my twitter feed or here is doing the entire situation a disservice.

the difference in conversation with people who actually read the comic versus the online posts is completely different.  And what a lovely conversation it is. Some liked it, some did not but I see our community as forward thinking and empathetic and the thoughtfulness is beautiful. 99% of the people who read the X-Men are there for the shared experience of being different. And the kissing :)

I know that coming out can be a messy situation. I know that it doesn’t always happen the way you want it to happen. I knew these things to be true. I knew these things to be a reality.  Not for everybody, but for SOME PEOPLE.

Beyond these thoughts I have a lovely conversation here that you might find interesting.  or not.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/a...s-outing-says-im-not-done-with-this-story-yet
EDIT- for those who have asked my similar question on both sides of the argument PLEASE consider this your answer too.  thank you :)
 

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Harbinger O Great Justice
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X
KKKKKKKAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHNNNN!!!!!!!


Well that's pretty annoying. Also, I don't understand how the finale makes sense AFTER the universe's been destroyed, but whatever. I suppose I'll be waiting fucking forever to see that all play out now.

Thanks, Obama Marvel.




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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
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UXM #34 was really good. It's nice to see the team together and potentially becoming something new. I've just gotta wait forever to see what that is….




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Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Sirs please, clarify wtf is the difference between Uncanny X-Men, X-Men '92 and all the other titles? I can't understand there's just alot of X-mens and I thought Professor X died and Wolverine died but they're alive and and

halp pls.
 

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Harbinger O Great Justice
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X
Assumedly they're all a part of Battleworld which is made up of shards of the various multiverses that they came from, but being as some of them, like X-Men '92 haven't started yet, I can't say for sure.

tl;dr - different continuities that now all exist in a single realm, but segregated from one another.

The other ongoing titles from before Secret Wars like Uncanny X-Men, All-New X-Men, and X-Men were all just different teams, like X-Force & X-Factor.




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