Avengers Vs. X-Men

[X-SOLDIER]

Has anyone else been keeping up on this? The fact that the news is all, "OMFG CHARACTER DEATH IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE, MUST SPOIL FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!1" made me think that mayhaps I should bring it up here.

I've really enjoyed the storyline so far, despite only reacing the main 11 AvX comics, and not THE WHOLE SET OF TIE-INS although I'm kinda tempted to see if I can check them out now.


Regardless, I've really, REALLY enjoyed the arc thus far (which comclides in 3 weeks). This is probably also helped by the fact that I've always (been one of the 5 people on earth who) really liked Cyclops as a character.


Regardless, it'd be nice to be able to discuss this with SOMEone.





Also, mega-hugs spoilers for upcoming comics that may be related to the end of AvX:

Spoiler

Spoiler: Seriously.

THIS greatly worries me, along with the speculation that this may result in this "X" helmeted person.

X

 

[Max Payne]

Issue 11.

FUCKING SERIOUSLY MARVEL

SERUIYSK+K#RTY

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Dacon:

Spoiler

Assuming that the event with the Phoenix 5 still took place, do you think that Cyclops would have been able to hold it together, had he not been systematically broken down mentally at every single step to a point where Phoenix would just completely take him over like it does at the end of the issue?

Also, was there anything specific you were doing to upload the previous comics you'd been doing? If not, I can probably .zip and upload the CBR files for some other folks who haven't read them.



X

 

[Max Payne]

Dacon:

Spoiler

Assuming that the event with the Phoenix 5 still took place, do you think that Cyclops would have been able to hold it together, had he not been systematically broken down mentally at every single step to a point where Phoenix would just completely take him over like it does at the end of the issue?

Also, was there anything specific you were doing to upload the previous comics you'd been doing? If not, I can probably .zip and upload the CBR files for some other folks who haven't read them.



X

Spoiler

I think it would have happened no matter what tbh. That's the burden of overwhelming power. You struggle with it, and at every turn you question your actions because since you have so much power, you cannot be totally sure of whether or not exercising will result in the outcomes you're aiming for.

Even before the Avengers began to take overt action against the Phoenix 5 Cyclops was wondering whether or not he was doing the right thing if I remember correctly.

The other factor is the nature of the Phoenix itself. It corrupts and consumes, and Scott is no Rachel. He doesn't have the same strength of mind the psychics do nor the training to control the Phoenix. It likely has been there all along, stretching its tendrils across his mind, threatening to take hold of him.

I didnt do anything special, I just uploaded them to mediafire and megaupload (rip).

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Spoiler

I think it would have happened no matter what tbh. That's the burden of overwhelming power. You struggle with it, and at every turn you question your actions because since you have so much power, you cannot be totally sure of whether or not exercising will result in the outcomes you're aiming for.

Even before the Avengers began to take overt action against the Phoenix 5 Cyclops was wondering whether or not he was doing the right thing if I remember correctly.

The other factor is the nature of the Phoenix itself. It corrupts and consumes, and Scott is no Rachel. He doesn't have the same strength of mind the psychics do nor the training to control the Phoenix. It likely has been there all along, stretching its tendrils across his mind, threatening to take hold of him.

Spoiler

What got me wondering about it is the fact that one, just because of his character, Scott's got a pretty good handle on his "singular vision" like he talks about when Prof. X visits Utopia, in addition to his mindset from training Hope. There's also the bit of him going to the Moon to escape all the psychic noise, making an avatar of Jean out of Moon dust and reflecting in a "conversation" with her about everything that happened when she was Phoenix, which seems to really solidify his handle on controlling the Phoenix Force. This is especially evident when the others are going overboard, like when Hawkeye got roasted, he's the one keeping things in check trying not to perpetuate the conflicts.

What surprised me the most was that Emma - the strongest psychic among them - seemed to be falling to its corruption the fastest, since she's the one who goaded Namor into creating the conflict in Wakanda that got the first portion merged back together, and sparked the whole "No More Avengers" bit that pitted them against each other more completely. I'm curious whether this was because of how Phoenix could manipulate her emotions, or if something about her was making her slightly MORE suceptable to its influences.

Essentially, Scott was easily the most balanced of them, and instead of anyone trying to reason with him, it seems like all of AvX is people attempting to forcibly shut him down, which is essentially the opposite of a good idea (which is exactly what lead to Dark Phoenix).

If anyone's interested, lemme know, and I'll see about uploading them. I think I'm gonna re-read them tonight to look at the developments again, given what happened today.



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[Ryushikaze]

I'd be curious. I've been watching Marvel from afar for awhile for various reasons.

Also, is Jean back from the dead again again again, or was that Rachel decked out on the Marvel Girl suit?

 

[X-SOLDIER]

That's Hope Summers (unless you're referring to the variant cover for 12 in which case I have no idea).

I'll see about uploading some of them tomorrow evening.


X

 

[Ryushikaze]

http://cdn.ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Marvel-NOW_Promo-Art_EW_JQ.jpg

That image.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

@ Ryu: Aaaaah, the one that's under the spoiler tag in the bottom of the OP.

Spoiler: It looks like it's...

Jean Grey according to this, which might explain the AvX 12 Variant Cover (potential spoilery things).

Spoiler: Regarding Consequences of AvX...

I found this on tumblr (which gave the source as a post from ComicVine).

1) At the end of Dark Avengers/X-Men: Exodus, Scott declared that Utopia was a free mutant sanctuary and Norman Osborn declared that Scott & company had left American soil. This would indicate that Utopia was it’s own sourveign nation, which The Avengers invaded not once but three times in just a few short weeks. Acts of aggression against Utopia by The Avengers.

2) Captain America attempting to arrest Cyclops for “Crimes against—” most likely he was going to say humanity, but since when is it a “crime” to end wars, feed the hungry, provide free energy and eduction to people?

3) The Avengers who were captured and held by the X-Men, 90% of the time, they were the aggressor and lost. They would be considered POW’s in a war The Avengers pretty much started.

4) The death of Charles Xavier. Scott kept warning him to get out of his head, this was self defense plain and simple.

5) To try to bring Cyclops to “justice” for what he did, but not Scarlet Witch would just show The Avengers as the ultimate hypocrites. If you’re one of us, you can pretty much get away with genocide, but if you’re not on our team we’ll attack you for A) Trying to save your own race and B) Trying to make the world a better place”

Here's kinda what I think about this:

1) Completely true. The initial "negotiations" over Hope were nothing but the Avengers strong-arming themselves into Utopia with only one goal in mind. While it was done under the pretense of opening dialogue, it's pretty certain that that was never really the plan.

2&3) While you may be able to argue that the Phoenix 5 did cause a fair amount of damage at times, barring Emma manipulating Namor into attacking Wakanda almost everything was caused by The Avengers initiating a hostile conflict with the Phoenix 5. In addition to that, they also did a HELL of a lot of positive things, and barring anything totally nuts happening in Issue 12 (and the aforementioned attack on Wakanda), the casualties they caused are significantly low, given what could have happened.

4) I agree that that whole scenario was Scott lashing out from being pushed into a corner, and feeling like he wasn't being given any real alternatives. Plus, with the full power of the Phoenix contained soley within him, I can't think that he'd be exclusively to blame for Xavier's death, (and it's doubtless that he'll blame himself for it. Well... depending on what state he's left in afterwards).

5) This. SO MUCH this.

Spoiler: Also there's this:

AvX spoilers, obviously.

AvX Consequences Cover Revealed, as well as a PREVIEW of AvX Consequences (and a variant cover for #4)

X

 

[Max Payne]

Cba with most of those, but several Avengers and X-Men attempted to bring Wanda to "justice" for her mental breakdown and a similar clusterfuck occurred.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Spoiler: So... AvX 12...

So. Phoenix & Chaos are Yin & Yang to each other. Wanda is the avatar of the Chaos force, and Hope becomes the avatar of the Phoenix Force. Balance.

However, now they join together to destroy the Phoenix Force, but DON'T also nullify Wanda's powers, because....? Now there's an imbalance again. Essentially Chaos keeps its avatar and reverses No More Mutants, and gives Wanda a Get Out of Jail Free card, while returning the Mutants to the status quo, and strips them of their power center.

Not to mention, Hope was apparently FULLY capable of controlling the Phoenix Force without becoming Dark Phoenix, like she was supposed to be, AND the Phoenix came to Earth SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE WANDA DESTROYED THE MUTANT POPULATION, but there's absolutely NO consequences that Wanda is suffering for it, especially compared to how Cyclops and Phoenix are being and have been dealt with, which is BULLSHIT.

Also, since Cyclops isn't being allowed to take the rap for the Phoenix Five's actions, I'd LOVE to know what Cap actually plans on charging HIM with aside from Prof X's death - which could probably even be called self defense.

I can only hope that this is somehow addressed in AvX Consequences.

Related: http://xsoldier.tumblr.com/post/32848734353/avx-the-winner-source-this-reflects-the-start



X

 

[Max Payne]

That comic is not accurate and it paints the entire situation in a much more black and white fashion that what actually occurred.