Bashing of either Tifa or Aeris.

[The Twilight Mexican]

Also, Tres, I can invalidate every argument you make by bringing up how much you like Shelke. So shush.

Possessing good taste invalidates my arguments?

 

[Lord Noctis]

Possessing good taste invalidates my arguments?

Dude, you are the guy who OFFERED to post porn on this site. You have no taste.

 

[Octo]

Did you see that pun I made?

No, but I am quite drunk..... I approve of Zack/Cissnei/Tseng sex though. Aeris can only watch because she is soooo virginal!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Dude, you are the guy who OFFERED to post porn on this site. You have no taste.

You liked it, though.

 

[Lord Noctis]

You liked it, though.

Granted, but I called you a sick man first. So there.

 

[Zee]

Can you possibly make an exception to not digging dudes long enough for me to make sexy time with you?

That post is turning me on.

Aren't ALL kids like that? You couldn't shut me up when I was a kid. And then as a teenager you could barely get me to speak at all. And now I'm a much more balanced individual. How is this unrealistic?

As for boring RPG heroine. I like Aerith, I really do. And I always have. But the "spunky princess" is NOT a unique character archetype, come on now. The fact that all of her time in CC is spent being a flirty 17-year-old also affects her image. I think we all act differently around someone that we like - especially at that age.

I...wouldn't call Aeris a "spunky princess" (if anything, that trope fits Yuffie imo). And with the FF7 characters, they all sort of set up an archetype -- Aeris being an angelic mary sue type on paper -- and then knocking it down, in Aeris' case by being incredibly flawed. Although others find it irritating, I liked that she was brash and insensitive sometimes because she wasn't exactly keen on all the subtleties of conversation (HEY BARRET WANNA GO RIDE SOME RIDES?).

I don't recall using the word "unrealistic" (maybe I have in the past in one of my rants?) but my point is that it's just not really in line of what we know of her character, both what we see in her past and present in OGC. Sure we all go through changes growing up, but there's always parts of us that remain similar. And with Aeris, a huge defining part of her character was the way she dealt with her situation -- especially when she dealt with it mostly alone. She was actually really smart (making pretty educated guesses based on minimal information was like, her specialty) and independent. In CC she is...not.

It just felt less like "Aeris at 17" and more watered down Aeris to me. Also, the writing was just terrible holy shit. I'll leave Zack/Aeris in my headcanon and pretend none of this ever happened tyvm.

 

[minimosey]

Also, the writing was just terrible holy shit.

You know, there's this one bit that just makes me squint every time: Aerith saying to Zack disapprovingly that SOLDIERs are "scary" because "they fight, and they love it".

Now sure, she didn't know about the whole ~woo~ glowy eyes thing yet, how could she have known that Zack's a SOLDIER? Even if he's... you know, in uniform... and even more, carrying his sword on his back, so obviously he's a fighter too...

This is probably some kind of disconnect between what the writers were imagining and what we ended up seeing on-screen, but you can't even wave it away as "well they just forgot to put Zack without the sword/too lazy to make him a casual wear outfit" because he's supposed to have landed in the slums after the mission, so he should have his uniform and sword. How the hell did she not notice the sword? If you saw a guy with a sword, would you tell him about how these other people are weird and scare you because they fight and like it?

I kind of wish they'd gone with Aerith being sassy to an obvious SOLDIER/ruffian, maybe even running a con around Zack to make sure "troublemakers" learn to keep out before she realizes he's not a bad guy. (Hey, she's already chummy with the pickpocket anyway, imagine if they were in cahoots.)

So yeah. Bad writing (that is not the only instance) makes her come off stupid and yeah, she does seem watered-down to me too.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I kind of wish they'd gone with Aerith being sassy to an obvious SOLDIER/ruffian, maybe even running a con around Zack to make sure "troublemakers" learn to keep out before she realizes he's not a bad guy. (Hey, she's already chummy with the pickpocket anyway, imagine if they were in cahoots.)

Wouldn't that have been wonderful?

 

[Ite]

It would have been awesome if it had been anything but what happened.

 

[Kobato]

I think I've been a bit mean on Aeris/ Aerith's character, and want to apologise. I think I get tried of her fans calling her, this prefect angel of prefect-ness, that sometimes forget that she was a humble girl, living in the slums, selling flowers for money, and not this super- angel hero with wings, that is prefect in everysingle way, or not some feeble thing, that is scared of the SKY, as Crisis Core made her out to be.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

PHOENIX DOWN!

I hate it when people think Aerith is some kind of pure-pureness girly girl. I consider that a form of Aerith-bashing. If anybody's the pure girly one, it's Tifa. Hell, being a kind and caring person is one of Tifa's most prominent personaloty traits.

It also irritates me when people call tifa tomboy. Tifa's the most feminine character in the party ffs. Also, if you liked Tifa's personality in the OG, I don't see why you'd dislike it in her other appearances. Unlike Aerith. Tifa's personality has remained consistent with the OG across all her appearances. I also hate it when fanfics portray Tifa as being violent when she gets angry. She couldn't even bitch slap Cloud whenhe was angsting when he was helping children ffs! Tifa seems to only use violence in self-defense. And it makes sense that she does, as it both matches her personality, and the fact that many martial arts are meant to be used for self-defebse only.

And while I hated Aerith's CC personality(I think they made her TOO different from the way she was portrayed in the OG.), I especially hated her portrayal in AC. She seemed a bit OOC, and I don't think she shouod have been in the film at all, as I felt it cheapened her death. And CC at least had character development as an excuse, but after FFVII she is fucking DEAD, so her character can't develop.

And regarding Aerith being a mary sue, she DOES fail the Mary Sue litmus test. But so do Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth. Make of that what you will.

 

[jazzflower92]

Yeah,people who are not very familiar with Final Fantasy 7 will come to wrongfully conclude that Aerith is a purity sue girl girly.The one thing you can say about Aerith is that she is spunky and very much a tease not to mention she is a firecracker.Its probably after being surrounded by the Compliation so much and people forget Aerith's original personality.

 

[Unlucky]

I hated a lot of things in Crisis Core. Aerith's personality as presented is one of them. Having escaped from Shinra, refusing to return to them, and living in the slums, you'd think it would somehow be reflected in her attitude the things she's gone through. But no, she oh so innocent and pure and gentle. Do not want.

I like spunky Aerith, who's very straightforward, selfish even. She's not perfect and at one point in the OG I was annoyed by her insensitivity. But she felt real and I wouldn't want that changed.

 

[jazzflower92]

I hated a lot of things in Crisis Core. Aerith's personality as presented is one of them. Having escaped from Shinra, refusing to return to them, and living in the slums, you'd think it would somehow be reflected in her attitude the things she's gone through. But no, she oh so innocent and pure and gentle. Do not want.

I like spunky Aerith, who's very straightforward, selfish even. She's not perfect and at one point in the OG I was annoyed by her insensitivity. But she felt real and I wouldn't want that changed.

Yeah,in the orginal game she acted more like a regular believable person than a glorified saint.I think her own death has made her into a flanderized cairacture of her former self.No longer is there that pink spunky and blunt woman but a flat stereotypical big good.I think sometimes it would have been better if they have let her lived and she could kept her true personality.

To that we can all agree Square has really messed up with potraying Aerith's personality and the result is making her to the one dimensional gentle nice girl stereotype you see so often in RPG games.

 

[null]

Everyone thinks Aerith is pure because FF7 lays it on thick and sloppy with the Christian overtones. The association with Holy and praying, healing, having a church, limit break called Great Gospel, virginity references, martyrdom etc. It's easy for the lazy player to disengage and just let the trope take over.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

Well the thing is Aerith is kind, caring and generous, sometimes selfless, etcs in the OG as well. Like when she encourages Tifa not to give up/to keep going in the sewers, Johnny and the flower/one gil/good luck thing, helping Cloud with Tifa re Wall Market, looking after Wedge in his last moments, giving herself up for Marlene, showing concern about Barret if you talk to her before riding the tram (she's not the only one but I think a lot of people forget/don't know about this when thinking about her behaviour at the start of the Gold Saucer), encouraging Cloud in the Temple of the Ancients, the Sleeping Forest and whatnots, etcs.

Aerith is known and loved by the children and peeps of the slums too as you discover in the OG by returning to the church to talk to the children there earlier and then again later in the game after the "event" and by how quickly Marlene becomes attached to her, and also it's shown in Crisis Core during some events there with the slum peoples while she's out with Zack. She's also good to her mom, helping out in the garden and house, doing her chores, and whatnots, she probably makes a contribution with the money she makes from her job, and well in general probably just helps her mom out in any way she can (I've seen Aerith bashed for being some spoiled rich kid or something but it's not her fault Elmyra had a nice house when she found her and they work hard to keep it nice) I know she has flaws, of course she does, characters are all the more interesting for that but also I'm one of those people that don't think things like purity, kindness, caring, etcs are no good either or worth seriously hating or anything, those are positive qualities and in this world qualities like that can be all too rare, like with the bad news stories and all, makes me all the more glad when I stumble upon a story where these qualities are shown, it makes you think and appreciate them So yeah I enjoy when Aerith, Tifa and other characters are kind, caring, etcs as well

 

[Unlucky]

^Of course Aerith is overall a good soul (see wat i did thar). She has a way of connecting to people even in such a short time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Crisis Core turned her into a joke by making her a virginal saint who can never do any wrong. It's very bland and boring, it's like they slapped on her a template of a perfect, ideal sweetheart instead of giving her a REAL personality.

Just..

It's just one of CC's many MANY faults.

 

[Lex]

Hmmmm, I can see your point but I do also think it's possible that the "harder" side of her personality developed after losing Zack. It's not hard to imagine her being all sweet and innocent with her first bf when she's that young then years later developing more of a backbone because of that loss.

I also think they managed to portray her quite well in AC tbh, her comments to Cloud have cheeky undertones which is how I remember her from the OG.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I figured Aerith's more down to Earth, streetsmart attitude was developed over time living in Midgar and dealing with all the shit with Zack and Shinra over time. Not something that was innate to begin with. One usually isn't born worldweary or slightly "in the know" of street life.

Seeing her go from innocent teen, to determined, streetwise adult makes sense to me.

 

[Splintered]

I figured Aerith's more down to Earth, streetsmart attitude was developed over time living in Midgar and dealing with all the shit with Zack and Shinra over time. Not something that was innate to begin with. One usually isn't born worldweary or slightly "in the know" of street life.

Seeing her go from innocent teen, to determined, streetwise adult makes sense to me.

I'm in agreement here. It would have bothered me if Aerith was presented in a way where it was "this is her character" rather than "this is who she was, compare it to VII." IMO there were parts the game where it seemed she was made to contrast with her personality in VII, like when she said she was scared of the sky- meaning she was scared of the outside world compared to when she was incredibly adventurous and her cgi image is her looking at the highwind in the sky.

I just felt like they weren't trying to define her character as the overly sweet, ladylike purity angel as much as they defined her as a girl growing up and out of her insecurities. She's sixteen in the game so it makes sense? I have no problems with that, I think the only let down is that they didn't make the point that she was changing.

 

[Octo]

I find it a bit weird, I don't know how old Aerith was when her mother died and Elmyra took her in but it was pretty young, so I feel like she would have developed street smarts well before Zack turned up. I mean, if Elmyra was some overprotective type its unlikely that Aerith would have got to hang out in the church alone.

So I dunno, part of me wonders if Aerith was just playing at being a shy innocent type when she met Zack. Seriously thats the only way I can swallow that 'afraid of the sky' crap without puking

 

[ForceStealer]

I've said before, one, I'm sure she does play up cuteness some for Zack. But, two, being afraid of wide open spaces is pretty prudent for someone who knows she's being pursued.

 

[Splintered]

I've said before, one, I'm sure she does play up cuteness some for Zack. But, two, being afraid of wide open spaces is pretty prudent for someone who knows she's being pursued.

Not just being pursued, but slowly understanding what it means to be different from other people, imo it means she's scared of the outside/unknown. There are a few blink and you miss it moments in VII where she expresses nervousness about being an ancient (the flashback with Shinra and the campfire scene), it's probably amplified at such a young age.

Actually the whole Aerith thing is handled in a strange way in Crisis Core. At this time it should be told that Aerith is an ancient, and the stress it would bring that Zack is in SHINRA who is trying to capture her (especially with a heavy Turk influence in game), that Aerith is being pursued, that she is hearing voices of the planet. But it's never mentioned.

But I don't think it's forgotten, I think it's hidden and that only people who played the OG can really get it. It's the same with Wutai, although it's a little more explicit, it's never really told that you are conquering a nation that's going to lose it's dignity- you just understand the implications if you played the OG. The same with Aerith's character, she might just seem like a girl who's overly scared unless you understand that she's going through some major issues and her life is being threatened. It's all Zack's POV, but Aerith's issues make more sense when you know her background.

It kind of goes with the Zack/Aerith relationship in general, this could easily have been an angst ridden couple full of trust issues, etc. It's a Soldier and an Ancient for heaven sakes. But they don't touch on it, and at the same time it's there. Like that scene where Zack is probably going the hardest time in his life after Angeal's death and he's sobbing in his knees and Aerith is having this light conversation and then goes to comfort him wordlessly.

They never tell each other the heavy details, but they just sort of understand. It's the same thing with Zack's hairstyle change in one of the memories, it obviously means something but they dance around the subject. I actually think this might attribute to how Aerith reacted to Barret's meltdown in Gold Saucer, she's not unaware it's just how they deal with it.

I still think it was done purposely, a layer of fluff around some deeper, hidden issues that you can only understand if you play the OG. Although it makes me interested in what would have happened if Crisis Core did decide to explicitly go into Aerith's story, actually a Crisis Core that centers around both Zack and Aerith and show her character development more would have been an awesome idea.

 

[Unlucky]

I find it a bit weird, I don't know how old Aerith was when her mother died and Elmyra took her in but it was pretty young, so I feel like she would have developed street smarts well before Zack turned up.

This.

But I think it could go both ways, really. She could be the same OG Aerith in CC, spunkier even, or the innocent and pure girl like she already was in the game. My gripe is that it wasn't handled properly as anything else in that game. A cardboard cutout presentation of vulnerability and softness, sure didn't feel real to me.

So I dunno, part of me wonders if Aerith was just playing at being a shy innocent type when she met Zack. Seriously thats the only way I can swallow that 'afraid of the sky' crap without puking

Agreed. I can see how that is understandable but for some reason I still think it's shit.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Yeah. I have no problem with Aerith's personality being different in CC. In fact, I'm kind of glad they made her different, as it shows that people change over time. I just think they made her TOO different. I mean, that being afraid of the sky bullshit really crossed the line for me, it was fucking ridiculous. As a matter of fact, had the being afraid of the sky part been left out, I probably would have been perfectly okay with her CC portrayal. Though I also thought it was stupid how she didn't immediately realize Zack was a SOLDIER, I mean, Aerith's not the brightest bulb out there, but I'm sure she'd be able to recognize a SOLDIER simply by uniform. Especially given her familiarity with Shinra. I would've left that out too.