@Rin: I don't want to dwelve into what is epic love story, to me IchiRuki is my OTP of OTP as I think no pairing even in shoujo can top this. Not even CloTi which I adore and is my game only pairing. Ichigo and Rukia and their relationship and how it evolves is flawless to me. Actually, I admire Kubo for being able to write such a pairing in SJ XD
Also, Inoue is more hated in Japan than in the western fandom. I think she's the second most hated female after Sakura in Naruto, which tells a lot. Once in Jump Festa, an Inoue fan asked a question regarding her to Kubo, and she was immediately boo-ed [no, I'm not joking]. That was pretty bad x__x A friend of mine who loves her [she's her favourite character] told me that when she discusses Bleach with a Japanese fans, she never says that she loves Inoue because if she mentions that, chances are high that said fan can go pretty batshit insane about her. Fanart sites actually don't reflect the fandom opinion on her character x__x I think fanartists are probably amongst the nicest fans in fandom, except some rare cases. On the other hand, Rukia is one of the most beloved characters in all SJ, so yeah.
You might think that my reasons are weird, but these reasons are what put off most of the Japanese fans too. It's not so much a matter of "Kurosaki-kun" [they will make fun of everything anyway] than a matter of how the character was shown. In ch248 [or was it 249?] when she only thanked Ichigo to come saving her... that alone spanned 4000+ messages in her anti-thread in 2ch [they jumped from 5 versions that day]. It may seem a bit too much, but that's exactly where I'm getting at; Kubo has not been depicting her in a good light in the HM arc, and he knew it perfectly. I am quite fascinated with Inoue's development and how he took the risk to depict a good character in a bad way - but I also perfectly know that this Inoue is not meant to stay, she's just growing up. I have always been full of hopes for Inoue, on many levels, and sometimes I think I expect better for her than what some of her fans do [what I read on the net is sometimes terrifying XD].
Doing things for one person while yes, is selfish, is admirable. It's the same thing Tifa did for Cloud in FFVII nothing else matters, only Cloud.
See, I could have thought so, IF Inoue had been able to help out Ichigo. But she was only his downfall. Tifa, while she was part of Cloud's downfall [and even not fully, since there are many circumstances], was also the one who made everything better for Cloud - and I still have mixed feelings about Tifa abandoning the world for Cloud so yeah
It did not happen with IchiOri. She made him fall, and wondered why she kept relying on him [a very important question, as it was not the first time she wondered that]. Inoue fell, and so did Ichigo, and she did nothing to help him. Worst, she failed to see how badly he was affected - for her, as long as he was physically OK, he was ok. Just like for him, as long as she's physically ok, then she's OK. I personally feel that those two characters during the HM arc brought out the worst of each other, and were never able to redeem this bad thing that could have made them work.
Instead, the girl shares a meaningful moment with the bad guy, and the guy remembers how another girl's words ease him before sharing a heartbreaking goodbye with same girl. Where is the meaningful moment between Ichigo and Inoue? That was an arc centered around Inoue, it should have happened. Don't tell me there was no time, Ichigo shared meaningful moments admist the craziest times in SS with Rukia. This is what I'm talking about. There's something amiss with IchiOri. It could have worked like CloTi, but it never did. Now the time is past that.
Orihime confesses her love of Ichigo and then is kidnapped and mentally abused and tortured. This... is Ishihime proof? XD
I don't think I ever said that. XD Ch237 to me nailed that IchiOri was never meant to be. Then again, I have read and watched shitloads of shounen and read shitloads [like, you have no idea just how many] shoujo and this is how I felt while reading it.
Mentally abused and tortured? I don't think so - UlqOri relied on way more than that, and to Aizen she wasn't even a toy. And also, just because IchiOri is not going to happen does not make IshiOri more likely. XD I have never said that. IshiOri is being pushed since the new arc, and that's what I thought while reading the last chapter. I'm not saying it's lurve or anything, but I see hints of them - they already had great chemistry and shared a lot of things, which I think helps to cement while not being necessarily the proof. It's up to Kubo whether to develop them or not, but it's my belief that he does like this pairing and he will expand on it. To me, and for a long time, IshiOri has been the Inoue ending pairing, hinted or canon.
Woah. WOAH. Inherit a broken girl? Is Orihime now merchandise, a toy? <XD What a shame that Ishida must now inherit Ichigo's broken doll. My bad - she IS a woman after all, and what else are women good for?
Yes, Inoue was broken during the HM arc - she is no more though - and I wouldn't want any guy to be paired up with her at that time because I feel it would be UNFAIR to the guy to have to endure such shit. It's the truth and the reason why I could never ship her seriously during those past years. Sorry if I think a girl has to stand up on her two feet for herself rather than moping and crying all the time.
Shounen is not without love. That is not what defines shounen, lol. There are plenty out there with good love stories contained within them, so I wouldn't so quickly push the idea of love away just because it is shonen.
I perfectly know that shounen is not without love - but love, especially in a shounen like Bleach, is LIMITED. Like, VERY LIMITED. That's what Kubo meant when he said that there is more to his characters than love [which was a stab at Inoue's love BTW, since that was all that defined her during the HM arc and also the reason why I thought that she would definitely change for the better]. Love IS happening along the way - especially since Kubo writes for his characters - but it's not the central plot, and will never be.
That is why I think it's necessary for Inoue to have moved on - or else it would be too much drama from love story, which is not what Kubo aims for. His love drama is good, but in limited doses usually. Inoue was an exception, but now that he is going into the IchiRuki relationship, he will not want any interference. That's how I always saw him act. Just like RenRuki died after the SS arc - but in Inoue's case, since she voiced out her feelings, her moving on needs to be voiced or written in some way too.
Tali said:
Because of an emotional goodbye? You can totally like Ichigo and Rukia. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking Ichigo and Orihime or Ichigo and Tatsuki or Ichigo and Ikumi or Ichigo and what the fuck ever. You can always interpret that Ichigo is in love with blah character depending on what ship you see. Hell, I could pull up a couple of artspreads and be like 'LOOK CLEARLY KUBO IS GOING FOR ICHIHIME/RENRUKI.' But that doesn't mean he's suddenly going to go for it.
I never said it was wrong to prefer IchiOri. I'm just saying it's not happening in canon, that's all there is to my statement.
Emotional goodbye with shoujo bubbles, shoujo bubbles that were only seen during Inoue's confession and Momo talking about Aizen back in the beginning of the SS arc? Yes, emotional indeed. It's as if Kubo wants to hint romance here.
Really you can't say it's a goodbye between friends when Renji was not there - on purpose, so that it would only be Ichigo and Rukia, not Ichigo and his shinigami friends. Heck, other nakama are here, and they're getting splendidly ignored too! What is wrong with saying what I see in the panels, I don't even know anymore. Yes I'm blunt so what? I always hated that opinion that there are several ways to read something - not there's only one that the author wants us to get. This separation was more than emotional, it was more than just a goodbye. Proof is, Ichigo is still stuck at that time.
ALSO LOL JAPANESE PEOPLE DON'T RIKE ORIHIME. Must be why they voted her for sixth place as a top favorite character. CAUSE OF HOW MUCH THEY LOATHE HER.
It was 8th place, and western fans were also allowed to vote. I know that some people sent ballots with shitloads of votes for her - and guess what, there are like 50 votes separating the 8th and the 11th place. Meanwhile, Rukia who also got ballots was placed 2nd and would have probably ranked 3rd without the western help - and still thousands of votes ahead the 4th. Don't even go there please. I have been in Bleach fandom for very long and I'm actually quite acquainted with it. I do know a lot of shit people are spouting - like "IchiRuki fans in Japan bullied the IchiOri fanartists, that's why there are so few sites!" which is bullshit. A friend lining up in COmiket saw one IchiOri fanartist, and no one aside one western fan went to buy her doujin. It was pretty sad actually >_< Lining up for UlqOri was huge though - Inoue is liked through the UlqOri pairing, because UlqOri saved Inoue's character at the point where she was at her lowest. Thankfully I don' tthink she'll be like that anymore.
He did? I saw her doing... you know, pretty much the exact same thing that Rukia was doing. And being a sixteen year old girl.
Rukia killed a man she loved. Rukia wanted Ichigo to go back in order to protect him. Rukia had ZERO power, Inoue had her powers.
You know, before Ichigo and Inoue met for the first time in HM, I still remember the theories going on in the IchiOri fandom: "she will tell him to leave her, to get back safely!" Well, so much for acting like Rukia during the SS arc.
OH RIGHT I FORGOT SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE KICKING PEOPLE'S ASSES, TAKING NAMES! BUT THAT DUMB BITCH JUST WOULDN'T PAY ATTENTION TO ISHIDA/UKELALA AND WAS ALL LIKE 'NOOOOOOOOOOOO KUROSAKI KUNNNNN'.
Too bad that's never what I wanted from her. I love when people go batshit on things I never said. I have seen shoujo heroines with no ability to fight showing more stregnth than what Inoue did during the HM arc, and I think it's sad, for a girl who holds so much power.
Did I ever think Inoue would want to kick Espadas' arses? No, I never did. I do think she should have been able to defend herself from the lolies though. This was a time when she could have acted. She also shouldn't have stand back like Ichigo told her to after throwing her shield. What I wanted for her was to try. Not even to win, just to try. To not even try is a sad thing for a shounen girl with the power. Rukia kicked more arses without powers during the first Karakura arc.
This is not about powers. This is about will. I wish fans would recognize this instead of imagining things I did not say.
Cause if she didn't like Ichigo it'd be all better. Hooooo the ravings of an angry shipper.
I'd have to see her as a threat to be an angry shipper. Which I haven't since... eh... 2006/2007? Something like that. I do think her without love is necessary, for a growth of her own character, because her character was so love-centric and self-centered that she was not able to grow past that. To me the Inoue in the HM arc is an Inoue who desperatly tries to grow up, struggles, and falls back because she is left hanging on that hope. See when you talk about Inoue's character, you're kinda force to talk about her love life, when there
should be more about her than that.
The Inoue who stands up for herself, who has more confidence, who is a good friend, is the Inoue I see now, and I am much more pleased by this kind of character.
Or it could just as easily be friendship. A deep, meaningful friendship, but friendship none the less. THERE'S A REASON THE THEME OF HER MOVIE WAS NAKAMA.
ORZ nakama? The theme of Rukia's movie is NOT nakama. It's 絆 aka "kizuna" or "bond". It's a very deep bond, and the word in itself HAS a romantic side to it, that gives the idea of being tied together. Kubo did say "they're not friends nor lovers", which is their current situation and was taken as a description of their current situation in the manga but something that would definitely evolve in the Japanese fandom, but he also did say two month after that he wanted us to see the change in their feelings during the movie.
And what do we see in the movie? Theme of two persons who are connected through several lives and who will always reconnect no matter what, and a hug that lasted a bit too long to be just out of necessary.
Everyone knows FtB is pretty damn romantic, and that we won't have another romance movie because that's not the point in Bleach - I expect loads of quick fights and no romance in the next one BTW.
And again; SHOUJO SPARKLES. They do not lie, especially not in shounen like Bleach.
Splintered said:
lol. Of all the reasons to hate Orihime, being self centered and a bad friend isn't one of them.
For you maybe not, but we all have different kinds of value; it's especially striking with Inoue when Kubo has a wide range of other females who didn't come as bad as Inoue did, even when in love. I <3 Kubo's women, personally.
Yeah, Orihime did a lot for Ichigo, but that doesn't mean that she totally ignored her friends. It just meant at that time, the plot and story revolved a lot around him. Orihime didn't just sacrifice herself for Ichigo, she did it for her friends.
It didn't come like that at all; the fact is that she only thanked Ichigo for coming to save her, failed all expectations while being scared of Ichigo's Vizard form, didn't even try to help him for the longest time, etc, etc. It's as if she was blinded at some point and became another character compared to what she used to be. It's not that the plot revolved around him, it's that her character revolved around him, which I don't see it as a good thing.
It's unfair to say that just because one person holds a special place in her heart, that means she considers everyone else ignorable.
But the thing is, that's what Inoue did and why so many people couldn't have respect for her character. She ignored Tatsuki when she went to HM - OK, I can get along with that, but at least she could have mentioned her in some way - she only thanked him for coming to save her when she could feel everyone's reiatsu, she wanted Ichigo alone to save her and once she was with him, she never had the intent to go to her friends' side - the ones in need of healing, you know? Inoue only saw what was under her eyes, she kinda forgot about the rest - again once she was with Ichigo, before that she could get worried/cry for Chad and Rukia at least; but fear not, they were quickly forgotten. When even Ichigo and Uryuu's VA poke fun at Inoue's character on the dome and make the whole staff behind them laugh, you know that it was pretty bad.
I have no problem if Inoue gets over Ichigo. But as of now, no, not when there's so much emotional tie-in to this. It'll be like if, let's say, Hinata confesses to Naruto, and then Naruto doesn't respond to it at all. Remember how horrible that was? It was stupid not be addressed. It's part of her character story. It's a small part, but it still is.
I'm tired of manga-ka's leaving character's subplot unfinished.
But you see, I do think that we're going to get some input from Inoue later on. When things will get more dangerous, we definitely will have that. It's simply that right now is not the time for it, as most of the POV is going through Ichigo's eyes. I also think that she's bound to protect Ichigo, in order to finally fulfill her promise to herself. *nods*
tbh I feel this way too. I just don't think that it's smart to just be like AND OH AFTER THAT ENTIRE ARC ORIHIME DOESN'T CARE ANYMORE LOL PROBLEM SOLVED.
Except, her being over Ichigo doesn't mean we won't see any input later on about how she grew out of it, how she views it herself, etc. I am fully awaiting for this, YES. Kubo WILL deliver, especially because he made her voice out her love for Ichigo. It still doesn't change the fact that I think that Inoue is over Ichigo, that's all. One thing and the other don't nullify each other XD
tbh I just wish someone could be like 'Hey I like Rukia/feel that Ichigo/Rukia is gonna be canon, but if you like Orihime that's cool too!' I realize that this is one of the wankiest fandoms since HP and FF7 but it's really the fans who make it that way. If everyone just got over their ship and saw that a whole ton of ships have valid reasoning/no one thinks their favorite character is fail, it'd be hella calmer.
A lot of IchiRuki fans actually LOVE Inoue. Just because I don't doesn't mean that I prevent people from liking her, or that I say it's dumb to ship IchiOri. I personally don't see the appeal, but I as I often say, to each his own tastes and that's alright
You wouldn't believe the number of friends I have who love her to death XD
And seriously, you made assumptions all over my post, which just left me... what? I have a very complex opinion about Inoue so I don't like it when people assume things I never said - if you went until now, well... now that's something XD It took me hours to write that, I'm probably not going to rewrite the same anytime XD I know a lot of fans from all sides [REALLY. THEY ANNOY ME TOO] are saying shit, but that's still not a reason to assume I'm going to say shit ok? XD
Also, apologize for all the typos and all, but it's late and I'm so not double checking this XD