Blood Transfusions

[Neo Bahamut]

Alright, this has been bothering the Hell out of me:

Early in the game, during a flashback, Hollander tells Sephiroth that he can't give Genesis his blood, because they're "incompatible."

After Genesis threatens to kill him, suddenly, the Jenova cells are the only known way to stop the degredation. And Genesis was pretty sure they'd work, to begin with.

Obviously, Hollander must have been lying at one of these points. The question is, which one.

The matter is further confused when Genesis's clone mutates into a monstrosity upon absorbing S Cells for no apparent reason.

I'll give my take on this rather confusing plot point later on, but first, I want to see what others have to say about it.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well it COULD have been something as simple as Sephiroth having a different blood-type. But i admit that I did assume it had something to do with Jenova, perhaps something to do with Sephiroth's cells (and thus, blood cells) are much better integrated with Jenova's cells then Genesis'.

Zack's cells probably weren't integrated at all, as he got them when he joined SOLDIER - and you know, I never got why Hojo gave Zack more Jenova cells after the Nibelheim incident, he knew Zack would already have had them...But as for turning the copy into a monster, I'm not sure. Genesis' reasoning was that they weren't pure, but for all we know Sephiroth's cells would have done the same thing. Genesis is wrong about his "gift" several times throughout that game.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

Crisis Core mentions in a few areas that the Sephiroth Clone procedure involved implanting people with S cells.

So, in other words, Hojo was doing SCIENCE! by asking if Sephiroth's cells would do anything Jenova's didn't.

Through SCIENCE! he likely determined that they wouldn't.



SCIENCE!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Does Zack have Jenova cells?

I thought only three SOLDIERs had Jenova cells: Genesis, Angeal, and Sephiroth. I have just replayed the scene in the Nibelheim reactor, and it seems to me that if Zack had Jenova cells, Genesis could use HIS blood. But Sephiroth's is the only blood/cells Genesis can use. I don't think Zack has Jenova implanted into him until after Hojo starts experimenting. Sephiroth himself says that the normal way of making a SOLDIER is by infusing them with mako, and it is clear even to Zack that Sephiroth is making some kind of exception of himself.

If Hollander is lying, it is because knowledge is power. Better to keep Genesis in the dark about his condition and how to cure it, the better to keep Genesis under control.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

Ironically, you couldn't be more wrong. All of the SOLDIERs have Jenova cells in them. The difference with Sephiroth is that he had them from birth. Angeal too, but his infusion occured during a different stage of development.

Genesis is--again, this is quite ironic--the only SOLDIER without Jenova cells. At least according to the English verison, he had Gillians' genes "mapped onto" his, which if the terminology being used is accurate, basically means he was engineered to match her as closely as possible.

So he has Jenova-like cells, but they aren't Jenova cells.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yes, all of SOLDIER has Jenova cells. That is part of what gives SOLDIERS their abilities.

 

[Lioneh]

Well, that being said, Genesis had did have at least faint traces of Jenova cells in probably their least pure form (I mean, he didn't have completely no Jenova cells, otherwise where would his traits have come from?)
But I agree that he got the worst end of the stick when it came to his 'perfection' as an experiment.

The reason I believe that Genesis arrived at the conclusion that S-cells would cure his degrading is because of the way that Jenova has been integrated into Sephiroth's body. As Genesis called him, 'the perfect monster', it goes without saying that Sephiroth had the most success (well, duh, we all know that xD) within the Jenova Project. Genesis then goes on to talk about how Sephiroth clones cannot be made and therefore his body cannot deteriorate. So, therefore, if Genesis received some of Seph's cells, then he was probably thinking that'd they would replace the cells that were failing because of the flaws within their design.

So then, when the Genesis copy receives some of Zack's cells, (which have pretty much be showered with mako and s-cells), it completely mutates because the s-cells haven't obviously integrated well with Zack's own cells (also proving that copies cannot be properly made) and basically became an impure genetic mess. o_o; Therefore Genesis seeks 'pure' s-cells, which are then only contained in Cloud because he was the only other experimented being who showed success with the integration of s-cells. Still, Genesis' theory was probably still flawed, because even if he did obtain some of the cells from Cloud they still wouldn't be perfectly merged and would probably be similar to Zack...pure s-cells would probably have to come from Seph himself (precisely why Gen asks him with an apple peace offering of sorts).

If Hollander is lying, it is because knowledge is power. Better to keep Genesis in the dark about his condition and how to cure it, the better to keep Genesis under control.

And with what you said, it was probably true - because actually giving Seph's blood to Genesis may have actually halted the degrading right from the start (see s-cell rant above x3). Obviously, Hollander didn't want that, especially with his plans for revenge and all...

 

[Neo Bahamut]

I had an idea on the transformation, but I'm not sure whether or not I like it: Perhaps Sephiroth knew he could manipulate his cells, & deliberately made them react violently with Genesis's DNA like that.

Now, here's my take on the general situation:

Hollander thought the S Cells could heal the Degeneration. The point in using Angeal for the blood sample was to give Genesis the copy ability.

Later on, seeking the Jenova cells, they find out the truth: They will not work. For whatever reason. Maybe, under different conditions, they would, but that's impossible to say.

Genesis turns to the Lifestream for aid which, ultimately, proves effective.

The bolded sentence is what I think is most important to the plot, about this entire scenario.

 

[Lioneh]

I had an idea on the transformation, but I'm not sure whether or not I like it: Perhaps Sephiroth knew he could manipulate his cells, & deliberately made them react violently with Genesis's DNA like that.

Whoa, interesting theory @_@; Since we all know Sephiroth has freaky powers like that...talk about revenge. Although, Seph may have already started to loose or give up his memories of his friends whilst being in the Lifestream...

Now, here's my take on the general situation:

Hollander thought the S Cells could heal the Degeneration. The point in using Angeal for the blood sample was to give Genesis the copy ability.

Later on, seeking the Jenova cells, they find out the truth: They will not work. For whatever reason. Maybe, under different conditions, they would, but that's impossible to say.

Genesis turns to the Lifestream for aid which, ultimately, proves effective.

The bolded sentence is what I think is most important to the plot, about this entire scenario.

Good theory on the blood transfusions there - though, wouldn't that mean that Genesis would obtain the two-way conduit? Also, Hollander most likely discovered the copy phenominon upon examining Genesis himself (without knowing of Angeal's abilities) and therefore Genesis' poorly integrated Jenova/Gillian DNA probably only gave him some of the copy ability (because his clones are rather mindless and don't display qualities like the Angeal clones - such as the individual personalilties showing through, etc.) I kinda doubt that Angeal's blood gave Genesis his copy ability, sadly.

 

[Andalegogo]

I really hate the whole introduction of these "S Cells" into the plot. Personally, I don't think they serve any greater purpose than for being symbolism for Sephiroth's presence, just like the Angeal Copies, the Buster Sword, and Zack himself serve as heralds to Angeal's presence.

Whatever the heck makes S-cells so special is apparently so short-lived that Zack's cells no longer had this special trait, and neither did any of the other Sephiroth Clones. After Genesis missed his chance to retrieve them from Cloud, I can only assume that the special trait in Cloud's S-cells also disappeared, making them no greater than normal Jenova cells, because that's what they're called in every other instance throughout the Compilation.

I don't think S-cells were ever truly the key for G's recovery. I like to consider that his cells may have developed some sort of mutated predatory response against the original Jenova cells. It would be interesting to see G's cells being the final nail in Jenova's/Sephiroth's coffin, especially since they've been building him up as being Sephiroth's most direct rival in terms of ability and prowess and all that. I can only wish at this point.

As for Sephiroth's control over the Jenova cells, I don't think he gained this ability until after his fall into the Lifestream, and even then, I don't think he would've been wasting his time trying to ruin the life of someone who was already doomed to a slow, incapacitating, and imminent death unfit for a SOLDIER.

 

[ForceStealer]

Does anyone say S-cells besides Genesis/Hollander? They could simply be making it up, Genesis because he needs to believe there's a solution, and Hollander because he thinks Hojo must have done something special for his experiment to succeed.

 

[Arianna]

That's a good question, I think. Perhaps no one knew to begin with, but once they did know facts and opinions changed.

Perhaps it's not blood Genesis would have taken from Sephiroth.

Spoiler

Perhaps it's hair, just like when they held Zack down near Cosmo Canyon.

Speaking of blood types, I would think Sephiroth would be in a 'type' of his own! Considering how blended he is with Jenova... Who knows?!

 

[Blue]

I don't think he would've been wasting his time trying to ruin the life of someone who was already doomed to a slow, incapacitating, and imminent death unfit for a SOLDIER.

The designers have said Sephiroth's motivation for tormenting Cloud was to get revenge for being humiliatingly 'killed' by a low-class stormtrooper.

 

[Neo Bahamut]

I freely acknowledge that there are some problems with the theory as to why the G Clone mutated. Since it's never really hinted at, it's pretty much an asspull, on my part. Particularly, I think it took time for Sephiroth to learn to manipulate Jenova which, while it wouldn't disprove the idea outright, it would make it that much more awkward to fit in.

Testing voices pretty much the only thing that got me started on this train of thought: Sephiroth is really fucking vengeful. He wouldn't want Genesis to find some way out.

As for the S-Cells, I don't think they were ever special at all. Remember, this is around the time of the Sephiroth Clone experiments. Hojo was currently testing whether or not they were any more special than regular Jenova cells. Hollander & Genesis were most likely working off of the same idea.

I think that Genesis's copy abilities come from Angeal simply because he doesn't display a 2-way conduit. He can give traits, but he can't receive them. Angeal can give & receive traits. Therefore, it makes sense that he could pass on the copy ability. Maybe not, but I find that way the sequence of events is set up to be rather conspicuous.

Also, the idea that the G Cells might be set up in the future as a way to get rid of Sephiroth for good certainly is interesting.