BTS

[Back To Black]

So apparently they were giving it large last night and seem to be trending allover the place. First I've actually heard of them but got something of a crash course last night on the '' army '' etc from a couple of my friends who apparently are balls deep into this stuff.

So is this actually a thing,what's the scoop?

Help a fellow Midgarder out here.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Run away.

Run away and forget you ever saw anything about them. Save yourself. Don't let it spread.

 

[Back To Black]

Run away.

Run away and forget you ever saw anything about them. Save yourself. Don't let it spread.

I've just made a lovely cup of tea, you have my undivided attention I'm willing to be educated. From what I've heard and seen so far, ''Army '' is quite intense.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I stay away the Korean Pop scourge that's blighted social media and infected the internet landscape since the mid aughts.

There's nothing there but the industrialization and complete commodification of the Korean boy-band aesthetic which just uses these young men up, spits them out, and enthralls teens to their vicious cycle of consumerism. It's beyond any boy-band industry ever seen since ever. And the fans can be quite passionate, devoted and almost fanatical.

Enjoy the video if you want an interesting dive into it.

 

[Back To Black]

Enjoy the video if you want an interesting dive into it.

Spoiler: Ok, lets go

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

BacktoBlack, I like your posts. They read like an NPC's dialogue.

 

[Rydeen]

I also like your like of tea.

 

[Prism]

Oh boy, the problems in k-pop are certainly multiple levels deep. I can certainly understand why girls would go crazy over these guys, but there’s an element of objectification that’s a problem. Despite what they might think, some of these hardcore fans generally don’t respect the humanity of the boys they admire. A lot of them have obsessively ship them together, which is done without consent. (This ain’t like shipping FF boys together, which is totally awesome - these are real people who ideally should have agency over their bodies) There’s a lot of times where they just make assumptions about their idol’s personality and craft their own image of what their idol really is, when the reality might be totally different. (See: all the idols that have been uncovered doing unethical actions despite their “pure” image)
On top of that, they get ridiculously territorial, especially with other k-pop fans. (The “anti” culture is very unhealthy, and is a rabbit hole of its own)

The fans are just one aspect, though, and the fans are innocent when compared to the industry itself, as Mako pointed out. They basically run training camps that seek out talent when they’re young (like...YOUNG) and work them to the bone until they have crippling health issues. I don’t think it’s a coincidence so many kpop idols have struggled with suicidal tendencies, and it’s tragic. They get denied their humanity by their management, who abuse them in nearly every aspect of life; they have obsessive fans who love a false image of them...and yet, nothing ever changes. Their fans become apologists for an abusive industry.

Despite all of that, I don’t have anything against BTS. They seem like alright guys, eh? Also, as a disclaimer, I’ve known k-pop fans who just treat it like any other band someone would like, totally normal. I’ve known other fans who embody the worst of it all. It’s a mix.

P.S. Every post I’ve made lately became much longer than I originally intended, aha.

 

[Back To Black]

Oh boy, the problems in k-pop are certainly multiple levels deep. I can certainly understand why girls would go crazy over these guys, but there’s an element of objectification that’s a problem. Despite what they might think, some of these hardcore fans generally don’t respect the humanity of the boys they admire. A lot of them have obsessively ship them together, which is done without consent. (This ain’t like shipping FF boys together, which is totally awesome - these are real people who ideally should have agency over their bodies) There’s a lot of times where they just make assumptions about their idol’s personality and craft their own image of what their idol really is, when the reality might be totally different. (See: all the idols that have been uncovered doing unethical actions despite their “pure” image)
On top of that, they get ridiculously territorial, especially with other k-pop fans. (The “anti” culture is very unhealthy, and is a rabbit hole of its own)

The fans are just one aspect, though, and the fans are innocent when compared to the industry itself, as Mako pointed out. They basically run training camps that seek out talent when they’re young (like...YOUNG) and work them to the bone until they have crippling health issues. I don’t think it’s a coincidence so many kpop idols have struggled with suicidal tendencies, and it’s tragic. They get denied their humanity by their management, who abuse them in nearly every aspect of life; they have obsessive fans who love a false image of them...and yet, nothing ever changes. Their fans become apologists for an abusive industry.

Despite all of that, I don’t have anything against BTS. They seem like alright guys, eh? Also, as a disclaimer, I’ve known k-pop fans who just treat it like any other band someone would like, totally normal. I’ve known other fans who embody the worst of it all. It’s a mix.

P.S. Every post I’ve made lately became much longer than I originally intended, aha.

Thanks for the reply it's interesting as was the video Mako posted, very interesting.

I just came across some #CutforKookie thing? I don't know how far that hashtag went but it seems crazy.

Since entering this rabbit hole I've taken note of the symbolism plastered throughout their videos.

I'll keep going for a bit before calling it a day because K-pop doesn't really interest me that much I was just caught off guard with how enthusiastic the fans were and the number of them. I've lived long enough to recognise boyband fever from young girls but there is something different this time round.

Thanks for the replies guys

 

[Fangu]

"Boy with luv" is on my current playlist. To me it's like when my guilty pleasure at 17 was the Backstreet Boys except now I'm an adult, the music is actually decent pop music and I give no shits about feeling guilty

Edit: I've heard rumours about the fans but luckily it's ignorable so far.

Edit2: Also re: crazy fans, I still remember the 8 hour constant mosh pit waiting in line for that one Backstreet Boys concert I went to. It was an 8 hour battle. (I was at the front of the queue because my friend was seriously obsessed)

 

[Prism]

"Boy with luv" is on my current playlist. To me it's like when my guilty pleasure at 17 was the Backstreet Boys except now I'm an adult, the music is actually decent pop music and I give no shits about feeling guilty

Yeah, this is the right way to do it. If someone treats it like the Backstreet Boys I’m down, lol

 

[Fangu]

Oh shit now this made me all philosophical about obsessive (boyband) fans in the mid to late 90's vs fans today... back then we didn't have social media and the Internet as we do now, so obsession energy (lol) took different paths... I remember there being this constant envy train about who had met the boys or touched the boys and who they took up on stage and even looked at at concerts... the ultimate goal was to have had some type of personal connection with them. Of course we were all teenage shitheads who didn't realise those were just their stage/ media personalities and that they were being told what to say in interviews etc.

The indication you were a huge fan was going to concerts in different countries and spend all your money on foreign magazines (typically German ones) and decorate your entire room with their posters.

My friend actually got to meet Nick Carter at this fan event when she was in her mid 20's 10 years later, at the point where their fame had dwindled. Happy for her, I think she remains a fan

But yeah I had a crush on AJ and while I didn't reeaally think I was a "real" fan, I didn't really "like" them, it was kind of diggin it because two of my friends did... (my other friends were Prodigy fans and side eyed me like mad), my very first fanfic was about a girl meeting Kevin in a hotel and having sex with him.

Those were the days

 

[Back To Black]

Oh shit now this made me all philosophical about obsessive (boyband) fans in the mid to late 90's vs fans today... back then we didn't have social media and the Internet as we do now, so obsession energy (lol) took different paths... I remember there being this constant envy train about who had met the boys or touched the boys and who they took up on stage and even looked at at concerts... the ultimate goal was to have had some type of personal connection with them. Of course we were all teenage shitheads who didn't realise those were just their stage/ media personalities and that they were being told what to say in interviews etc.

The indication you were a huge fan was going to concerts in different countries and spend all your money on foreign magazines (typically German ones) and decorate your entire room with their posters.

My friend actually got to meet Nick Carter at this fan event when she was in her mid 20's 10 years later, at the point where their fame had dwindled. Happy for her, I think she remains a fan

But yeah I had a crush on AJ and while I didn't reeaally think I was a "real" fan, I didn't really "like" them, it was kind of diggin it because two of my friends did... (my other friends were Prodigy fans and side eyed me like mad), my very first fanfic was about a girl meeting Kevin in a hotel and having sex with him.

Those were the days

You seen this? ^

 

[Fangu]

No but I have to! Definitely remember the name Lou Perlman

 

[Back To Black]

@Fangu
I think you raise a good observation about bedrooms with posters etc. In the 90s most interests were held within the pages of magazines. Collectables, bands, console games gardening etc.

At school I remember there being the boyband group that consisted of about 5 girls who would never stop talking about boybands and who was the cutest etc. One of them might have a boyband themed pencil case or what have you. One Friday two of the most popular girls in class were excited about going to a concert together with the gang, it's all they spoke about all day. So come Monday we noticed both weren't in class.

Turns out, they got into a fight about who one of the singers looked at. Girl A thought he looked at her whilst Girl B thought it was actually her. So they started pulling each others hair and screaming in the toilets. Come Tuesday they seemed to have made up and agreed that they were both wrong and that obviously, the singer had looked at them both so that was that settled. Until Girl A said that he looked at her first and there was a knockdown drag out fight right there and then.

It goes without saying this is the extreme end of the spectrum but it goes to show that the hysteria was alive and well in the 90's. Today's fans have 24/7 '' access '' in their hands to the slightest things. What he wears, drinks, eats fitness routines etc.

ps, I dont recall the name of the guys on that video's thumbnail but he comes across as a good lad and seems to have a knack for documentaries.

 

[Prism]

There's something about the way fandom has been accelerated by social media that makes people's obsessions evolve real fast, and real hard. Even compared to the old days where whole websites would congregate around the same hobbies (like us, The Lifestream!) the rapid, fleeting nature of social media has put people's obsessions on steroids. So definitely, fandom in the 1990s was totally a different beast, even though both are obsessive in nature. You raise good points indeed, Fangu.

K-pop peaked with the song that birthed it, by the way. This tune is unreasonably catchy.

 

[Glaurung]

Back in my day it was the last days of Take That. I remember vividly how I was bullied (along with toher girls) into signing that petition for them not to split, and that was the first time I'd ever heard about them I spent my music time listening to Enya, Mike Oldfield and Eurodance, mostly. Then there was the craze of the Spice Girls and then the Backstreet Boys.

I had to pick one of the BSB out of peer pressure because, of course, I had to like one. So I chose the one with dark hair and green eyes (can't remember his name, so there you have how interested I was). I was more interested in anime heroes (and anti-villains). My reasoning? Anime guys were as reachable to me as famous singers and actors, with the big, enormous difference that you didn't discover one day they were involved in sexual scandals, infidelities, or were assholes in real life.

Even if nowadays I take an interest in several famous actors or musicians, I care about what they produce in their professional lifes but nothing more. About other things, it's called private life for a reason, and it makes my skin crawl to think about those people who stalk someone else in the hopes that they will love them. First of all, the only thing you will get with staking is a restraining order, second, please, kindly look yourself in the mirror and then look at the people that person keeps around.

 

[Fangu]

omg Take That! Said friend was obsessed with Mark Owen before Nick Carter, lol. Myself I loved Robbie at 12 and then all Howard for me. Still Howard. Always Howard. Dude danced in a skirt. (Can't find a clip dammit)

Also yep... was batshit stalker fans back then too. Never good.

Can I also say how happy I am to realise not everyone on this site is sub 35 xD (I know more who aren't but still)

 

[Back To Black]

Back in my day it was the last days of Take That. I remember vividly how I was bullied (along with toher girls) into signing that petition for them not to split, and that was the first time I'd ever heard about them I spent my music time listening to Enya, Mike Oldfield and Eurodance, mostly. Then there was the craze of the Spice Girls and then the Backstreet Boys.

I had to pick one of the BSB out of peer pressure because, of course, I had to like one. So I chose the one with dark hair and green eyes (can't remember his name, so there you have how interested I was). I was more interested in anime heroes (and anti-villains). My reasoning? Anime guys were as reachable to me as famous singers and actors, with the big, enormous difference that you didn't discover one day they were involved in sexual scandals, infidelities, or were assholes in real life.

Even if nowadays I take an interest in several famous actors or musicians, I care about what they produce in their professional lifes but nothing more. About other things, it's called private life for a reason, and it makes my skin crawl to think about those people who stalk someone else in the hopes that they will love them. First of all, the only thing you will get with staking is a restraining order, second, please, kindly look yourself in the mirror and then look at the people that person keeps around.

I hear you on the private life thing, I have a boss who thinks everyone's life is up for scrutiny and I asked why and she said well everyone has their lives on show on social media anyway. So she tried to make me feel like a weirdo purely for stating that my private life was exactly what it said on the tin.

 

[looneymoon]

I genuinely love some KPop songs but the fandom is absolutely terrifying. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

I first got a glimpse of it back in high school, way before it blew up with the current BTS craze. My friend was obsessed with Super Junior, and her behaviour was not different to the way current day Twitter stans are. I think the culture around KPop idols breeds/encourages crazy in a very problematic way.

This same friend went to the open auditions SM Entertainment (one of the top KPop production labels) and I went with her. I was around 15-16 at the time and the whole experience was so... bizarre. For one, I thought we were going to see her perform on a stage in front of the rest of the people there. There was a stage there, and people were dancing on it, but I assume it might have been for those who made it further along in the process?Anyway, she was taken into a room alone to meet with the scouts. In retrospect that is really creepy, but nothing really happened.

On the bus ride to/from the place, she kept going on about how if she made it she'd be going to Korea to train at one of SM's "Idol Schools" and work her ass off to be a big KPopstar. At the time I thought she was full of shit, and she was just making stuff up to make the experience seem more intense than it was. Turns out it's actually a thing where younger kids (around 11-13 I believe) are taken out of regular school to be in KPop school. They essentially then "compete" with each other to be put into the line up of one of their Boy Bands or Girl Groups. Boy/Girl groups are marketed similarly to cell phones in that way. The members tend to rotate a fair bit, but the branding remains.

I believe BTS is one of the groups that didn't go through the KPop school route. I think they were lucky enough to be scouted by an American label, which I imagine is part of the reason they got so big.

idk man, I'm all for not casting a judging eye on the way different cultures do things. Lord knows how exploitative american entertainment is. I just find something so disturbing, yet fascinating, about the whole KPop world. There seems to me that theres a higher than average suicide rate among these idols. That's not even considering the ones who don't make it through the school process. That or like, their career is forever ruined because the media finds out they have a boyfriend/girlfriend or something.

Anyways I don't mean any offense by this post. Idk if there's any KPop stans on this board, but I know they tend to get a bit... defensive when non-stans enter this discussion :|

 

[Glaurung]

You just described what it is like. If someone finds it offensive, tell them to open their eyes and grow a thicker skin. Quality of music has nothing to do with how rotten the industry might be.

Thre is indeed a higher suicide rate, and those stars are forbidden from having a boyfriend/girlfriend for marketing reasons. They are to be kept pure and single so fans flock around them (and comsume all their products and merchandising) so they keep having fantasies about those idols being their lovers. One thing is to cheer on an artist you like and go to their concerts/plays, buy their books/movies... but that other thing is creepy as fuck. I mean, I get that teens do that a lot because hormones and young age, but when you find out that adults do that too *shudder*

 

[looneymoon]

A few months ago, I was reading about "The Burning Sun Scandal" from last year. Basically it's the biggest scandal that's happened in KPop media. It involves several male idols raping girls, filming it, and distributung the videos.

It is a huge deal in it's own right ofc, but the fandom aspect really stood out to me as weird. It's the level of detail in which fans have been documenting the whole thing online. I couldn't get through all the information in the compilation I found, because it's just so meticulous. Obviously, I don't see anything wrong in holding the celebrities you admire accountable for the horrible shit they might be responsible for... it's just so insane to me how adept this fandom is at knowing literally every single fucking thing these people do.

 

[Master Bates]

Ngl, I saw this thread yesterday at "latest posts" and I genuinely thought this was a "Behind The Scenes" thread for FFVIIR. But when I opened it, I was so confused I didn't understand what any of you was talking about. It took a few moments for me to realize you're all talking about a kpop group and the industry surrounding kpop.

As impossible as it may sound, I didn't even know kpop is supposedly this huge. I heard about them, naturally, but I really thought they were just a fad for the youth, probably because I also wasn't into the boyband/girlband craze back in the 90s (I was an elementary schooler back then whose focus is mainly on shounen animes) so I had no context to draw from. Presently, I'm more focused on work and my work environment is mostly composed of old conservative dudes and very family-oriented females. Kpop, or any entertainment bands for that matter, is almost never mentioned in my workplace at all. Most of the conversation is focused on local politics and theories on partisanship. Boring, I know. I'm a bank compliance officer, btw, just for context on how supposedly boring my work is. Idk, maybe talks about kpop constantly turn up in conversations with our frontline bank employees, but I never got to hear them.

But I digress. I gotta say, wow... this is seriously surprising. It feels like I had opened a door into a new world. I find it very hard to believe this brutality is happening, and yet somehow I do. It's both fascinating and terrifying at the same time so much so that I googled some of those mentioned here. Thank you for the insights. It provided a quick... 'entertainment', so to speak.

 

[Lex]

So having read through all the posts and even watched all the videos linked (other than that 90 min documentary, which I might get to at some point), can someone explain what's going on with this group that led to this thread being created? I'm trying not to google it so I don't end up in the YouTube K-Pop wormhole.

 

[Fangu]

I saw the documentary. Wow I had no idea Lou Perlman was a con man. This was a fascinating watch.