Curious: what do you think about that should be Zack the franchise's main character?

[Wolfmania]

If this thread has been done before, I am so sorry, please accept my most deep apologies for complete mis-management of the search tool.

But anyways, yeah. I'm curious. Is this a contention that most of the FFVII fanbase holds? I only ask because, lately, I heard some fans saying such things like:

"I'm so embarassed that Cloud and Zack were in the same game."

Or

"Cloud is so boring. Zack should've been the main character."

So that's the question. Do you, fan, think the Compilation would've been better with a different protagonist. Certainly, I don't think anyone can deny that Zack is a safer character choice, but do you think that sacrificing some likeability for more mental brilliance was a good step in making Cloud the protagonist?

 

[jazzflower92]

I think Zack is actually a more different type of protagonist than Cloud.

Zack in my mind would have brought a little more lighthearted fun into the game because of his personality.

 

[Tennyo]

Uh... I don't think it matters. Zack and Cloud have very different personalities, and quite honestly I wouldn't want to change that.

 

[Wolfmania]

Just to be clear, the question being posed here is whether or not you'd have wanted Zack to be the main protagonist, I.e replace Cloud as the lead in FFVII.

That their personalities are different dosen't need to be put to question, of course.

 

[ForceStealer]

"Cloud is so boring. Zack should've been the main character."

It's funny, because technically Zack was supposed to be the "boring" one. By that I mean he's supposed to be the prototypical hero. He's the manly, confident, rush in and save the day type. He's everything Cloud wanted to be.

 

[Wolfmania]

That's true.

Basically, I think the question is; what type of protagonist do you think is best suited for FFVII?

Zack's type, as described above, or Cloud's? I was actually surprised when I saw some of the fan's opinions on this.

 

[Unlucky]

Just to be clear, the question being posed here is whether or not you'd have wanted Zack to be the main protagonist, I.e replace Cloud as the lead in FFVII.

A huge resounding NO. To replace Cloud with Zack in the original game ruins the entire story altogether.

 

[Jarlix]

Unless you introduce something entirely new for him then he'd have far fewer issues to resolve.

 

[Wolfmania]

To be honest, I never believed that having a more prototypical hero personality would've been better than Cloud's.
I mean, yes, Cloud is absolutely not a safe character, and I bet many people find his personality unlikeable, especially in Advent Children(which I don't think people realize that Cloud is utterly depressed during -- and that that's the point -- most of the time).

But I just don't think I'd have felt the same impact if someone of Zack's type and persona had the same issues. Dealing with being a puppet, dealing with guilt and a terminal illness.

I dunno. I guess I've just been looking too much at people who simply categorize Cloud as emo, irrelevant and move on, lol.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Funny thing is, back in the 90s when this game came out, Cloud *was* the safe lead. The 90s was full of brooding anti-heroes, which Cloud's character was something of a commentary upon and deconstruction of.

 

[Wolfmania]

Funny thing is, back in the 90s when this game came out, Cloud *was* the safe lead. The 90s was full of brooding anti-heroes, which Cloud's character was something of a commentary upon and deconstruction of.

How interesting. Unfortunately, I was after those times. I can definitely see a shift in opinions regarding heroes, heh.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I think I would not have cared for FFVII so much if Zack was the lead character. Cloud is very different from the standard hero. He's got his mental weaknesses and self-confidence issues, and he struggles hard with them. This makes him more interesting.

True, Zack has his own struggles. Its also true that there are other factors that determine how good a character is.

But Cloud is better suited to FFVII. His weaknesses and his struggles are what allow FFVII to be more than just a simple Good guys go fight Bad Guy story.

Instead FFVII is more of a journey alongside Cloud dealing with his various issues and discovering who he really is. It lends itself greatly to the narrative and allows for a dynamic between Cloud and Sephiroth that defies the more straightforward relationship of former friends facing each other, which is how CLoud initially portrayed his history with Sephiroth.

It wouldn't be the same with Zack. True, Zack was a friend of Sephiroth's. Therefore there would be a narrative reason for him to go after Sephiroth if he were the lead, and the conflict between them could be very interesting and form an entirely different dynamic.

But in doing so we would sacrifice the major plot twist of Cloud's false personality, which stands as one of the games strongest plot points, as well as a defining moment for Sephiroth as an antagonist.

Zack's role in the OG as a background character works very well, and within the confines of the OG doesn't need to be anymore than it already is.

If Zack were the lead character I feel a part of what makes FFVII so great would be lost.

Keep in mind that I really do like Zack. But he's the traditional heroic type, and that's not a character type that would fit the main narrative of FFVII.

 

[Wolfmania]

I think I would not have cared for FFVII so much if Zack was the lead character. Cloud is very different from the standard hero. He's got his mental weaknesses and self-confidence issues, and he struggles hard with them. This makes him more interesting.

True, Zack has his own struggles. Its also true that there are other factors that determine how good a character is.

But Cloud is better suited to FFVII. His weaknesses and his struggles are what allow FFVII to be more than just a simple Good guys go fight Bad Guy story.

Instead FFVII is more of a journey alongside Cloud dealing with his various issues and discovering who he really is. It lends itself greatly to the narrative and allows for a dynamic between Cloud and Sephiroth that defies the more straightforward relationship of former friends facing each other, which is how CLoud initially portrayed his history with Sephiroth.

It wouldn't be the same with Zack. True, Zack was a friend of Sephiroth's. Therefore there would be a narrative reason for him to go after Sephiroth if he were the lead, and the conflict between them could be very interesting and form an entirely different dynamic.

But in doing so we would sacrifice the major plot twist of Cloud's false personality, which stands as one of the games strongest plot points, as well as a defining moment for Sephiroth as an antagonist.

Zack's role in the OG as a background character works very well, and within the confines of the OG doesn't need to be anymore than it already is.

If Zack were the lead character I feel a part of what makes FFVII so great would be lost.

Keep in mind that I really do like Zack. But he's the traditional heroic type, and that's not a character type that would fit the main narrative of FFVII.

This was a good read, it matches what I think -- I like it.

If I had only one thing to add, I'd add that I, personally, just couldn't see a character of Zack's archtype going through something as depressing as Advent Children. He definitely wouldn't have been as self-destructive.

And I think that's the point? Maybe Zack as a few too little mental disorders for something like FFVII? Well. Opinions.

 

[Tennyo]

When it comes to a story, I don't think a certain "type" of hero matters so long as it make sense to the story.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Maybe Zack as a few too little mental disorders for something like FFVII? Well. Opinions.

This right here is exactly why I feel the way I do. Zack is mentally stronger than Cloud is, by all appearances. In situations where Cloud cracks under the pressure Zack might very well not.

Consequently a good chunk of the struggles Cloud goes through mid-game would be non-issues if Zack were the lead. Thats not to say Zack wouldn't be effected, I just don't believe he would break the way Cloud did.

Additionally, Zack just doesn't fit the tone of the story, which is actually rather dark and depressing in nature. The more brooding and mentally troubled Cloud just fits better on the most basic level.

 

[Wolfmania]

@Tennyo

So...do you think Zack's "typing" would've been a better fit to carry FFVII's story like Cloud's? Many a people think that FFVII's compilation was lacking in light-heartedness, for instance.

C'mon, I want more opinions!

 

[Tennyo]

No, it wouldn't have. Cloud was royally fucked in the head, and rightly so. Being trapped in a tube and experimented on for five years, and his lack of faith in himself caused him to absorb Zack's memories and make up this whole fake scenario basically as a coping mechanism, hence causing a lot of confusion that leads to one of the game's biggest plot twists.

Neither is better than the other, but they both serve their purpose.

 

[Danseru-kun]

No

Zack is everything Cloud wanted to be- he's the happy, young, energetic, idealistic and strong hero who has a nice family, a good career, good friends and gets the girl

and then he has to endure months of running for his life until he's murdered by an evil company and low ranked troops after a long grueling fight and his girlfriend had no idea what happens to him and his best friend forgot all about him

Cloud is a weak-minded boy whose ambition in life was to impress a girl he likes and become disappointed with his mediocre achievement, got his town destroyed, went to hell's lab, failed to protect Aerith, was trapped in an illusion, and was comatosed

And then he stood up and saved the planet

Zack is effective in CC because it was good -> dead

Cloud is "good" -> bad -> better -> worse (AC) -> good

If Cloud is in Zack's shoes CC would be too melodramatic, there will be no contrast between happiness and despair. If Zack was in FFVII, he cannot be deconstructed the same way as Cloud and all the shit won't really weather him, we'll get the feeling that he's strong enough for anything.

Also I don't think FFVII lacks fun, Cloud is only depressed in AC and he has good reasons to be.

 

[Wolfmania]

Cloud is a weak-minded boy whose ambition in life was to impress a girl he likes and become disappointed with his mediocre achievement, got his town destroyed, went to hell's lab, failed to protect Aerith, was trapped in an illusion, and was comatosed

And then he stood up and saved the planet

This is off-topic, but it's something I've been meaning to ask, so I really can't help it, but...

Does anyone else get the vibe from Cloud that "He was weaker than anyone -- and that's why he was stronger than everyone."

What I mean is that, Cloud is obviously very weak minded, yet he's always been freakishly strong physically, which is an awesome dissonance for his character, but isn't his character's real strenght the fact even though he's so weak-minded, that he still has the will and perseverance to get up?
Sorta like "A man can only be brave when he's afraid", or "Why do we fall? To learn how to pick ourselves up."

I don't know. That's what I always thought was one of the intrigues of his character. Apologies for this completely tangential post.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I don't know, I've grown kind of fond of Cloud over time, maybe it's because of my own struggles with depression and how I can relate to him more some now but yeah. Something tells me I might appreciate Squall more these days too if I were to replay FFVIII again <.<

He's the manly, confident, rush in and save the day type

Zack is loved for this but Snow is hated IDK

Originally my favourite types for male leads as I played through the series were the Zidanes and Tiduses but then with CC Zack didn't really have quite the same impact on me, but Snow is my favourite guy from the FFXIII series so

 

[Octo]

Zack is Sonic the Hedgehog. He's cool and totally in your face. Where he might be more fun, he isn't so relatable to the (back then) target audience of FFVII -teenagers going through their own identity crises and self doubt.

Ofc SE stupidly decided thats what we wanted and gave us mopey Cloud who was back at square one having apparently learned nothing.

 

[Farron]

Cloud should be the hero because the story was originally about him and Zack was just somebody in Cloud's past. Zack is not a terrible character by any means, but Square made it Cloud's story first. It was meant to be Cloud's game originally and it should stay that way.

Whoever says that Cloud is a bore is wrong. In the original game he is quite unique with his unbalanced personality and his mission to find his own true identity

I have a feeling that Cloud gets hate because they are from people who have only watched ACC and can't stand FF VII because it's old and then read wiki to read about the original game and then claim that they know everything.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

I would hardly consider Cloud "boring". While he may seem boring at first due to seeming to be your generic anti-hero, as soon as the identity crisis subplot kicks in he becomes a lot moar interesting. Cloud's identity crisis was one of my favorite things about FFVII.

 

[Wolfmania]

I have a feeling that Cloud gets hate because they are from people who have only watched ACC and can't stand FF VII because it's old and then read wiki to read about the original game and then claim that they know everything.

I...think I must share this feeling?

I mean, like you, most people I come across who tell me of how such a horrible and boring character Cloud is, 9/10's, point to AC and scream for me to look at how "emo" the character is.

Maybe AC is the root of this "problem". The number of people who have seen AC is certainly larger than the number of people who have played the original game -- and read the Case of Tifa novel -- which is equally as important.
I completely admit that without proper context, AC might as well be terrible, because it's not a self-contained movie at all, without the game and the novel, it really dosen't make much sense on it's own.

Still, I have never felt like Cloud's depression was anything to be admonished in AC. I thought it added to his journey and character, as well as to VII's whole examination of heroism and anti-heroes. Sure, it sacrificed the stereotypical likeability of certain protagonists, but Cloud's always been more of a realistic character than a hero.

But I know even some fans who have even read the novels and played the game detest AC, too.

 

[Ghost X]

If Zack was the main character in FFVII, I think there'd have to be some amount of re-writing, and then it wouldn't be FFVII. I think I prefer the story as it is with Cloud.