Disappointed in Mod Response

[Tifabelle]

Sigh. Once again, I find the mods' handling of a situation less than satisfactory. The problem with Misty/Yoshi has been ongoing for several months. In fact, it was brought to the attention of the mods MONTHS ago. And promises were made that next time something happened, it would be dealt with.

Everyone went on ignoring Misty as per the mods' request. EVEN THOUGH she continued to post messages to Tiff and stalk her (both here and on tumblr).

Two days ago, she made a post on Tiff's profile acting concerned for her well being (which I call bullshit on, but w/e). Tiff responded that she appreciated the concern but she wasn't interested in being friends with her. Then Misty responds by cursing at her and flipping out. That message was reported by two people almost immediately after it happened. Nothing was done about it. And I'd like to remind the mods that they promised to respond to each and every reported post after all that bullshit with Ryu. My how quickly we forget.

So this shit spills onto tumblr where Misty continues to curse and call Tiff names. Several people asked her to leave Tiff alone. One person was even sending her very kind messages to her, which she stopped responding to. She deleted everything. Then comes back on TLS and the first post she makes is in Tiff's art thread saying how great her drawing is. Well certainly you can understand people's reactions to this pretense.

Then she makes a thread on CxA where Tiff can't defend herself. So Tiff wanted to rant about it here in the Ruins Your Day thread. She didn't mention anyone by name. I had agreed with Tiff's post. And Quex had linked to the thread in question. Some of our members commented on it, and I attempted to explain why we had reacted that way in Tiff's art thread.

So how do the mods choose to handle this situation? Well Road can't be bothered reading tl;dr posts. Force claims that by the time it gets to the mods, it's resolved itself even though that's not true because this shit was brought to their attention two days ago (and might I add is an ongoing problem). So the answer is to just infract everyone instead of actually resolving the problem. If the mods had handled this two days ago when the first message was reported, you wouldn't have a clusterfuck on your hands. And don't tell me not to bring outside drama to TLS. This all started on TLS and spilled elsewhere on the internet because you completely fail at handling the situation here. You waited until it exploded, then took the lazy way out by just handing out infractions like candy. All because you couldn't be bothered to actually look into and deal with what the actual problem is. And Road even admitted that Misty's reaction to Tiff's request was harassment, and yet nothing was done about it. Even though it was reported two days ago.

Misty has made promises in the past to ignore Tiff, and move on, but she never does. This is an endless cycle of bullshit that you allow to continue. Stop making promises of "next time, next time" because this has happened too many times and you always say "next time". She has been REPEATEDLY asked by several people to leave Tiff alone, and continues to message her. Tiff asks her to leave her alone and ignores her, but it continues to happen.

Honestly, your answer is just to infract a bunch of people and move on. And btw, my post was edited without even telling me. But Misty's wasn't edited to remove the CxA stuff, and neither was Quex's. She's allowed to harass and bother Tiff, nothing is done, then you act surprised when it explodes. When you fail to take appropriate action to actually solve the problem, it will only keep happening and people are going to react negatively. The way this whole thing was handled seems unfair and haphazard.

 

[Celes Chere]

To be honest, I was planning on taking a break from TLS because of all this.. I feel in a way I am responsible for ranting about it in the ruins your day thread. But I kept her name out of it, and it legit ruined my day. Why? Because I'm just tired. It's not funny anymore, I can't pass this off as just a mild thing that will go away... because this keeps happening. It's irritating and I'm just fed up. If the Mods will never do anything, I'm just going to stop coming to TLS for awhile. Because I'm tired of her posting on my profile and PMing me and nothing is done. I don't want to deal with this anymore, this actually is starting to make me upset as much as I hate to admit it, what she says DOES get to me sometimes. Sometimes I start believing that this all happened because I did something wrong somewhere along the line. But this time, it's just plain unfair. I agreed - we both did - to stop messaging one another and then she flips the fuck out on my profile, admits the tls secret was about me, and just all this other shit and I just don't want to deal with it anymore.

I come to TLS because I like it here and my friends are here. I love the atmosphere here. But when the Mods are doing this and not caring and this girl Kobato or whatever the fuck name she chooses at the time keeps harrassing me, I don't think I can post on tls as much anymore. Which sucks because I really like this Forum and a lot of the people on it. But I can't take this bullshit anymore.

So if she stays, I'm out. because you all saw it. she admitted she avidly goes onto my profile and reads it. It's just fucking creepy. And I don't feel comfortable posting here with that sort of thing. also I will not make my profile private because I have nothing to hide. and you know what I shouldn't HAVE to hide around here. =/ It's supposed to be a friendly enviroment, not a place where you have to worry about people snooping through your shit.
So yeah

 

[Tennyo]

I admit I was asleep when this all went down.

I should have pressed into it further instead of assuming it had been handled and was all resolved. For that I'm sorry.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Whenever shit first started going sour between several members and this Misty chick, that must have been during that hiatus I was on at the time I was getting married, moving and starting a new job, because I only learned about it when the visitor message on Tiff's profile was reported the other day.

I don't know what the background is here, so I can't make any judgments about whether this should have been the last straw or whatever, but another mod said that since Kobato had never received a past infraction related to this, it would be out of line to ban her instead of infract her, tell her to back off, and then ban her if she initiated any further contact.

Seeing as I know nothing other than the current shitstorm, if there is more information that needs to be weighed, please bring it up here, and provide links to anything not deleted that needs to be considered. If we're dealing with a community shattering issue that demands the breaking of normal protocol, please show us.

No one needs to feel like they can't be here without harassment, so if there's strong evidence that we can only look forward to that, it does need looking at, and maybe a bigger decision made. Let me also add again, though, that my understanding is any further contact on Kobato's part will lead to a ban.

So, if that's not sufficient, please come forward and explain.

 

[Dashell]

So this shit spills onto tumblr where Misty continues to curse and call Tiff names. Several people asked her to leave Tiff alone. One person was even sending her very kind messages to her, which she stopped responding to. She deleted everything. Then comes back on TLS and the first post she makes is in Tiff's art thread saying how great her drawing is. Well certainly you can understand people's reactions to this pretense.

Then she makes a thread on CxA where Tiff can't defend herself. So Tiff wanted to rant about it here in the Ruins Your Day thread. She didn't mention anyone by name. I had agreed with Tiff's post. And Quex had linked to the thread in question. Some of our members commented on it, and I attempted to explain why we had reacted that way in Tiff's art thread.

Oh I got this backwards... I thought she posted in the art thread and then flamed the tumblr. ... I guess I thought that made more sence since it makes no sense the other way...

Not that any of this makes sense.


Just to put it out there though, I also get sick of the "next time" promises from mods. Why is it always next time? Why not do something about it this time?... these problems wouldn't grow so big if they were handled when they first came up.

 

[Celes Chere]

Thanks Tres, that's all I am asking. =) I don't want to be bothered anymore, to be honest all I ever wanted was for all of this to end and I did my very best to ignore her like everyone suggested, I was even civil to her on the Forum and polite to her when she messaged me. I can't say I didn't try.
So the next time I get any sort of message at all, I will just simply report it and know that something will be done instead of everyone going "weelllllll we could do something but maybe we'll wait for things to get worse first". Because that kinda thing makes me not want to post anymore.

but if I have the comfort something will actually be done (and that might actually encourage her not to message me anymore) then everything's good with me and that's cool of you

I will say though, that it's a little silly to say : "Since she didn't get a warning last time, it would be unfair this time"
But we reported her last time... how come she never got warned? But I will take what I can get, the comfort of knowing that it actually will stop now and I can at least post at tls without worrying is nice. xD This didn't happen on TLS, but these are the type of messages that I receive from her:

OMG ARE YOU FOR REAL ? FUUUUUU- / SPITS OUT DRINK. THIS IS FUCKING TUMBLR, YOU’RE MEANT TO FUCKING FOLLOW OTHER PEOPLE. HAAAAAA OMG, THIS IS FUCKING BRILLIANT !!! OMG FUCKING QUOTE OF THE DAY, QUOTE OF THE YEAR !

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH OMG, I CAN’T BREATHE- CAN’T BREATHE. TOO MUCH FUNNY- OMG ! OMG !

NICE COME BACK. “LEAVE ME A-LOOONE ” BAWL, CRY CRY CRY. GO AND CRY TO SOMEBODY WHO GIVES A RIGHT SHITE. OH THAT’S RIGHT, YOU’RE STUPID CLIQUE GROUP WHO ARE A BUNCH OF SHEEP. “BAAA, LOOK WHAT THIS MEANIE SAID TO ME, LOOK TUMBLR FEEL SORRY FOR MEEE. CRY, CRY, CRY. WHAT A FUCKING ATTENTIONING WHORE.
FUCK OFF TIFF, REALLY. OH AND I CAN FOLLOW WHOEVER I WANT TO BITCH. THIS IS TUMBLR, NOT YOUR KINGDOM. SORRY ! YOU HAVEN’T CREATED ANY RULES HERE. GO CRY ON TLS, MAYBE THEN YOUR SHEEPISH CLIQUE CAN FEEL “OH SO SORWEE FOR YOU ” OH- BOO- HOO. “

From the looks of this message that was deleted from Kripey's post, she does not even want to be on TLS. So I see no problem with banning her at least temporarily to prove the point that you're serious. Also I have never once called her a bitch or any insulting name like that. I tried handling this calmly, but that does not seem to work. This started on tls and I think it should also end on tls. because it's a tls related problem.

also it's not just me that has a problem with her. She's said some pretty rude shit to Kripey, Sami, Quex, GLD, and plenty of other people that told her to cut the shit out.

 

[Tennyo]

how come she never got warned?

I think I can answer this.

The last time there was drama it was viewed as a private matter between members. I don't know if anyone felt that it was right to truely get involved.

But yeah this has gone beyond that now. :/

 

[Ⓐaron]

I'm moving this to the Donator's Domain because if she sees this it's just going to explode.

If people feel other people who aren't donators need to have input I guess I can make a special temporary section for dealing with this shit.

 

[Tifabelle]

ehhh I'm not sure I agree with this? I mean, it doesn't seem right to have a thread where she can't defend herself. however poorly that might be. Also my post was also about moderator action or inaction which is a public concern for all members.

I'm not disagreeing that she wouldn't flip out for seeing this, but wouldn't that just prove the point? So thank you for admitting that you're already aware of her tendencies.

And I thought it was said a while back that mod discussions would be more open?

but w/e. I don't really care, tbh. just saying.

 

[Tennyo]

^This is a good point. The rest of the forum does need to know, and honestly, as much as she may flip out doesn't this girl have the right to know about all of this?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Mostly because the thread comes across awfully like people demanding to have her banned (regardless of whether that's their intention or not) and if I get that impression it's going to come across even more poorly to her. (And please don't put words in my mouth about being "aware of her tendencies" or whatever. At least in the latest round of drama, I don't consider her particularly more dramatic than anyone else involved in this fiasco, though I admit I don't have the full facts at my disposal). Honestly, I'm not comfortable with having public scrutiny of member warnings in the first place, and was pretty sorely tempted just to close the thread and slum it, since if people have concerns with the way things have been handled they have other ways to contact the staff, but I decided to take a less severe action instead. However, I'm worried that if we continue going down this road, it will lead to witch-hunts against members.

 

[Celes Chere]

Yes, because I just go on random quests to get people I don't like banned all the time. And it's not even about that I'm not particularly fond of her. It's simply that ignoring her has not worked at all up to this point, and I'm tired of being bothered at a place that I enjoy posting at.

And so are other people, it's not just me. It's not a 'witch hunt'. It's more like this shit needs to end. Now.

 

[Tifabelle]

Mostly because the thread comes across awfully like people demanding to have her banned (regardless of whether that's their intention or not) and if I get that impression it's going to come across even more poorly to her. (And don't put words in my mouth about being "aware of her tendencies" or whatever. I don't consider her particularly more dramatic than anyone else involved in this fiasco).

Well I don't see the problem? If we're having a discussion about her, she should be privy to it. Especially if it does end in some sort of discipline or whatever (though I don't expect that it will).

Well sorry for putting words in your mouth then. But then I find it suspicious why you would need to hide it from her.

Honestly, I'm not comfortable with having public scrutiny of member warnings in the first place, and was pretty sorely tempted just to close the thread and slum it, since if people have concerns with the way things have been handled they have other ways to contact the staff, but I decided to take a less severe action instead. However, I'm worried that if we continue going down this road, it will lead to witch-hunts against members.

Really? This is not a witch hunt. This is about an ongoing problem that has been ignored. This is just as much about moderator response as it is her behavior.

And I see your answer to member concern is the same as always? Just delete it instead of having an open discussion. Everything in secret? What happened to all the promises when that bullshit with Ryu went down? What happened to the mods saying they wanted to be more open and honest with their members?

This is why people don't like you as a mod aaron. You're terrible. And I would thank you to remove yourself from this if you wouldn't mind. There are plenty of other mods to handle it.

 

[Tennyo]

Fair enough, Aaron. I can see where you are coming from. However, I'm still not comfortable with this thread being here. I still think this thread needs to remain public and that we just weather whatever storm may come as a result of it.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yes, because I just go on random quests to get people I don't like banned all the time. And it's not even about that I'm not particularly fond of her. It's simply that ignoring her has not worked at all up to this point, and I'm tired of being bothered at a place that I enjoy posting at.

And so are other people, it's not just me. It's not a 'witch hunt'. It's more like this shit needs to end. Now.

Did I call this a "random quest", or imply that you weren't justified to want her punished? No, I didn't. I didn't call this a "witch-hunt" either; I said it could lead to them in the future. Again, please don't put words in my mouth.

I don't deny that what she has done is sorely infraction-worthy, nor that if she continues harassing you, she deserves to be banned at least until she can learn her lesson. Regardless, I am worried that a public thread will just make things worse. People are already tense enough as it is (we've had to give out about five infractions over the last day alone) without someone feeling like the whole forum wants them banned, which quite possibly may be the impression Aeris/bunch of other names is going to get from reading this thread.

Rest assured, we are going to make sure this shit stops. But multiple staff members have expressed concern about having member conduct publicly scrutinised like this.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I am really confused about what's going on here and I feel pretty terrible about being unable to help. Should I just step out, or...?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Well I don't see the problem? If we're having a discussion about her, she should be privy to it. Especially if it does end in some sort of discipline or whatever (though I don't expect that it will).

She's already been infracted for it. She's already been informed (or is about to be informed, I'm not 100% sure which) that if she does it again, she will be banned. As far as I can tell, we had already come to this consensus before any of this was even posted, though I'm not 100% sure on the chronology behind it (I was playing games and ripping vinyl records at the time this exploded). We don't usually discuss member warnings in public for a number of reasons, but if members have concerns about the way warnings have been handled they are generally advised to contact staff in private first before making a thread about it. As far as I can discern, that did not happen here.

Well sorry for putting words in your mouth then. But then I find it suspicious why you would need to hide it from her.

Because it's going to put her on the defensive, which is likely to lead to even more drama. I've seen situations like this play out several times on forums before.

Really? This is not a witch hunt.

Again, I did not say this was a witch-hunt. Read what I wrote again; I very specifically said I was worried that we would have them in the future. My intended meaning was that if we set a precedent of allowing public complaints about member conduct, it could lead to witch-hunts in the future, but apparently I did not make my phrasing clear enough for this to come through.

This is about an ongoing problem that has been ignored.

The problem has not been ignored. The first time it was treated as a private matter, but it became clear that it was not going to remain that way and we infracted her.

And I see your answer to member concern is the same as always? Just delete it instead of having an open discussion. Everything in secret? What happened to all the promises when that bullshit with Ryu went down? What happened to the mods saying they wanted to be more open and honest with their members?

We do. But being open and honest with members does not entail people badmouthing each other's behaviour like has happened in the last couple of days. If people can't learn to live together and keep insulting each other (not that I'm saying this has happened in this thread, but it has happened multiple times in the last couple of days), we're probably just going to have to ban everyone until they can cool off. And none of us want that.

This is why people don't like you as a mod aaron. You're terrible. And I would thank you to remove yourself from this if you wouldn't mind. There are plenty of other mods to handle it.

Not helping. And honestly, I'm really fucking insulted.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If it helps to know this, she will be given a summary of what her offences and the complaints are, so it's not like we're keeping her in the dark or anything. But hearing that people have complaints is not the same as reading people's angry complaints firsthand. The latter can provoke... inflammatory reactions.

 

[Tifabelle]

Aaron, it's only a scrutiny of a member if she's not allowed to defend herself. She's more than welcome to post her complaints about Tiff or anyone else if she wants. To me, it seems fucked up to have a private thread about her that she can't read.

If she gets the impression that an entire forum hates her because two or three people asked for her to be dealt with, then that's her problem.

And you've only "had to" give out infractions because it's something that you failed to handle in the past.

We don't usually discuss member warnings in public for a number of reasons, but if members have concerns about the way warnings have been handled they are welcome to contact staff in private first before making a thread about it. As far as I can discern, that did not happen here.

Thanks for missing the point of my post. I am concerned with how the staff handled this matter. Now, two days ago, and months ago. That's the issue at hand. The title of the thread is even "Disappointed in Mods Response". ffs, how can I make it any clearer.

I didn't make this thread just so I can bitch about her. Jesus.

We do. But being open and honest with members does not entail people badmouthing each other's behaviour like has happened in the last couple of days. If people can't learn to live together and keep insulting each other (not that I'm saying this has happened in this thread, but it has happened multiple times in the last couple of days), we're probably just going to have to ban everyone until they can cool off. And none of us want that.

Why shouldn't we be able to complain about another member's behavior? I'm expressing my concerns over her behavior and how the mods treat the situation. Everyone's already involved. And mod behavior is EVERYONE'S problem. It's lazy to just say we'll either infract everyone or no one. That doesn't solve any problems. Things exploded because she was reported two days ago and nothing was done about it. You still fail to address my concerns.

And fyi, the message sent to misty about "if you message her anymore, it'll be a ban" wasn't decided until AFTER I made this thread.

Not helping. And honestly, I'm really fucking insulted.

Sorry aaron. I'm sorry for saying that. I shouldn't have said it like that. I like you as a person. I really do. But as a mod, you infuriate me.

 

[Celes Chere]

Just so you know Aaron, it's no hard feelings against you from me either, but I actually think moving the thread to private has started to cause more drama lol.

I agree though, it feels awkward talking behind her back. I also feel like Kripey addressed staff issues and staff said they'd like users to be more honest about stuff like that. So everyone should be able to comment on it if they want to. I know there are people who are not donators who would agree with this.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Aaron, it's only a scrutiny of a member if she's not allowed to defend herself. She's more than welcome to post her complaints about Tiff or anyone else if she wants. To me, it seems fucked up to have a private thread about her that she can't read.

I am pretty confident that if she reads what people have said about her on top of everything else that's going on right now, it's just going to make things worse. And honestly, since most of this is over Tiff not wanting her to talk to her, I'm not sure how having this out in public would make things better. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the nature of the complaint, but I'm fairly sure anything she has to say for herself isn't anything Tiff would care to hear in the first place, so as far as I can tell the only way for this to be resolved is for the two of them to leave each other alone. And having public complaints about her behaviour won't help make that easier.

Or, well, at least, right now, while everyone is riled up, I'm not sure how it will help. Large numbers of people appear to be very emotional right now, and often times while emotional people say things that they later regret. Maybe it can be made public in the future after this has died down; who knows. But I'm fairly certain having it in public right now is just going to make things worse.

If she gets the impression that an entire forum hates her because two or three people asked for her to be dealt with, then that's her problem.

Yes, and she will be informed that people asked for her to be dealt with. But, as I have stated, hearing that people have complaints, and actually being disclosed the word-for-word content of those complaints, are two different things.

And you've only "had to" give out infractions because it's something that you failed to handle in the past.

I am not convinced that we wouldn't still be dealing with this if we had given her an infraction for her past behaviour. I'm pretty certain we wouldn't have given her a ban threat over the past incident, so it's entirely possible that we would still be dealing with it.

Thanks for missing the point of my post. I am concerned with how the staff handled this matter. Now, two days ago, and months ago. That's the issue at hand. The title of the thread is even "Disappointed in Mods Response". ffs, how can I make it any clearer.

I didn't make this thread just so I can bitch about her. Jesus.

I... didn't say you did? At least I didn't mean to say you did. I'm not sure where you got that impression.

What I was trying to say is that a lot of the complaints raised in this thread had already been dealt with, meaning that a lot of confrontation could have been prevented if people had simply asked what was going on first.

Why shouldn't we be able to complain about another member's behavior? I'm expressing my concerns over her behavior and how the mods treat the situation. Everyone's already involved. And mod behavior is EVERYONE'S problem. It's lazy to just say we'll either infract everyone or no one. That doesn't solve any problems. Things exploded because she was reported two days ago and nothing was done about it. You still fail to address my concerns.

You are wrong in saying that "nothing was done about it." She was given an infraction and clearly told not to contact Tiff again.

And fyi, the message sent to misty about "if you message her anymore, it'll be a ban" wasn't decided until AFTER I made this thread.

Right. Like I said, I wasn't on the forum at the time this exploded. But she had already been told in no uncertain terms not to contact Tiff again, at least according to what mods had said in the staff forum.

Sorry aaron. I'm sorry for saying that. I shouldn't have said it like that. I like you as a person. I really do. But as a mod, you infuriate me.

Right. I'll try to be better in the future.

 

[Cookie Monster]

For one, I did read the "tl;dr" posts. Now, I don't remember much about past incidents. But, I'm pretty sure we never really stepped in before because it always seemed Celes and this girl would work things out before it got out of hand.

In fact in the VM that was posted on Celes' profile, the girl wrote she didn't want to hear from her again, and it seemed Celes was in agreement with that. So, again, no reason to get involved. We can't ban someone because of what he or she does on CxA and Tumblr. I still feel banning her for actions committed elsewhere is inappropriate. We're not there to monitor what's going on. Hell, most of the staff members were pretty clueless about what was going on between you two when the VM was reported.

So, when this spilled onto the forum, I took a look at infractions she received in the past. She received a couple, neither of them were related to this. I pointed that out in staff, and I said she should be infracted. I made it clear if she acted out of line again she would be banned. I don't see how this is "ignoring" the issue or saying we'll take care of it next time. She was infracted. Now, this isn't entirely up to me, but I don't see a reason for us to take further action unless there have been other incidents here that we don't know about.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I agree though, it feels awkward talking behind her back. I also feel like Kripey addressed staff issues and staff said they'd like users to be more honest about stuff like that. So everyone should be able to comment on it if they want to. I know there are people who are not donators who would agree with this.

I'm fine with this. I'm just uneasy about criticisms of member conduct in public, especially when the member in question is being asked to stop talking to one of the people who has the criticisms. If someone wants to summarise the discussion regarding staff in public, I see no reason to put a stop to this, as long as the criticism of Girl Who Keeps Changing Her Name And AKA is left out of it.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Also, this should be public dude, wtf.

 

[Celes Chere]

n fact in the VM that was posted on Celes' profile, the girl wrote she didn't want to hear from her again, and it seemed Celes was in agreement with that

Yes we have agreed to this a multitude of times but she keeps coming back, PMing me trying to be my friend, or leaving comments on my profile like her most recent one where I politely told her I didn't want to share my personal life with her and thus started her cycle of bullshit all over again. You guys just don't understand that she won't go the fuck away, and it's pretty irritating. It's irritating to a lot of people other than just me, as well.

No reason to get involved? Even though we reported this shit? Obviously if I reported it I saw it as a problem. And no one gave me any reply so I assumed you all just ignored me so I had to deal with this bullshit by myself and now I'm just fed up with it, and the fact that nothing is being done. I'm not asking you guys to ban her for what she did at CxA and Tumblr. I'm asking you to make her stop interacting with me here - period! and thank you for saying she will be banned 'next time' but you've said 'next time' before... how do I know this won't happen again when she predictably messages me that you guys won't say "lol next time" ???

You guys could have at least messaged me back about it. It was really upsetting that my reports went ignored.