Do You Think We Will See Something This Year?

[Tetsujin]

Alright, so I've come to learn that the same person Mako is calling a liar about the part 2 leak was also the one who broke the Remake script leak from the demo

Do you know this or did they claim this?

Because I have serious doubts.

Like, I also remember this bit from the alleged leak: https://thelifestream.net/forums/threads/ffvii-remake-sequel-dlc-leaks-discussion.22515/#post-854123

"There seems to be a function in the VIIR launcher indicating other "parts" will launch from it, called "CC", "Part 2" and "Part 3". This may just refer to DLC."

There's no way future installments are gonna be handled like expansions and there's no way all this shit that is literally years away and has no business being in the files of part 1 just happens to conveniently be in there and yet the Yuffie DLC had nary a hint of it existing.

Like, where was the Yuffie DLC in all this datamining shit

I've seen a pic of the hex code that was leaked, which contained some dialogue between Cloud and Zack. It was very convincing lol. The way it was formatted perfectly matches how the text in Remake 1 is formatted. That'd be hard to come up with out of nowhere so shortly after the game released.

They literally could have just copied that from the demo datamine months earlier.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Like I have no words. This is absurdity and was debunked in 2020.

My take away is that he randomly claimed some model ripper artist was on his "team" for some reason even though she seems to believe otherwise

"For some reason?"

"she seems to believe otherwise"

.....

Bro. He lied for clout. Sreliata is one of the largest and most popular artists/modders/rippers in FFVII-R twitter. He told a bold-faced lie, about him being part of some super secret hacker group with her as a member, and stated that the Zack model was from Part 2 of the Remake, when it's part of the regular Part 1 files of the game. Hell, that's why Zack's model is able to be used for modding right now for the PC version. It was never locked/encrypted by some PKG key that was decrypted by Dark Software. Like, I don't understand how you don't see how this collapses the whole fucking thing right there.

(notably, the conversation ends with her wanting to make sure he's not in her server under another name)

No it didn't "end" there. She says quite definitively she does not know the dude and he's lying for attention. What are you doing, dude?

If he's literally lying and roping in other people with greater clout than him into his fictional account of data mining, he has no credibility. He's a proven liar. He's not offering tangible proof. You can literally fake that shit wholecloth via copy-pasting shit from one text file to another. And no one else has ever come forward or shown any evidence of data existing for this Part 2 on the FFVII-R retail copy.

despite this same guy doing a very real and publicized leak you also claimed was fake until proven wrong.

Are you fucking kidding me? He's lying! There's no evidence of his identity there. It was anonymous from 4chan. He can easily make that claim and say it was him who did those leaks with no real evidence to prove otherwise. For all you know, it could've been me or Tets. Because it's anonymous. You're just taking some stranger's word on the internet, who's proven to be a liar?? Dude, come on.

People make elaborate fakes on the internet DAILY.

 

[Odysseus]

And no one else has come forward or shown any evidence of data existing for this Part 2 on the FFVII-R retail copy.

Not that this helps, but the leak was from a prerelease build gotten from PSN before launch. It's not in the final game as Square scrubbed all of it. And given your attitude, nobody is ever gonna come to you with their insider info at this point anyway lol.

But yeah I can't really keep defending the point, I'm just repeating what I've heard from people who do believe it's real and were actually there for the whole ordeal, and I trust them. I have been compelled to believe them because everything that's supposedly been leaked seems fairly plausible given how the remake ends. It was all just like "Oh, of course this is what's going to happen, why did I ever think otherwise" when I read it all.

I dunno anything about that DLC parts stuff Tets, so I can't say much. We DID get a DLC episode eventually, so I suppose those could've been early testing grounds for some ideas. If they had done parts as DLC, the UI of just switching between them on the main menu like you do with the Yuffie DLC would've been a decent way to do it.

Anyway, I don't have much more to add about this. It's just gonna be hilarious if Ocelot was right all along lol.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah that's what he said before.

Not that this helps, but the leak was from a prerelease build gotten from PSN before launch. It's not in the final game as Square scrubbed all of it. And given your attitude, nobody is ever gonna come to you with their insider info at this point anyway lol.

Yeah, no one's ever going to come out with it because it doesn't exist. Where is it? What's the file and who's hosting it?

Do you not understand this is literally not how any video game leaks work at all? It'd be on the internet already and it would be confirmed. Look at Pokemon, Resident Evil Remake 2 & 3, RE Village, FFVII The First SOLDIER, Dissidia Opera Omnia, and every other game that's ever been leaked before. I don't understand how you're not even exercising any critical thinking with this. It'd be corroborated by other sources. By other people/fans who look for this shit. In Japan, China, anywhere else. But it's not.

And again... they've been shown to be a bold faced liar, to boot. I caught them in 4k lying out their ass.

If they were actually "leaking" real data, or showing actual assets that exist, how the hell didn't they predict a single thing from Episode Intermission? WTF. You're believing fiction, dude. Don't know why you're being gullible. He literally got banned from here for lying but apparently you trust him. Okay!

 

[OWA-2]

Okay, coming back to the time-loop discussion... For a loop to work, destiny/fate needs to have a role, since all events in the loop are destined to happen(since they already did happen). But we just destroyed destiny/fate, so how does that work? I mean, if there was a loop, the Whispers would be the ones trying to keep it going, but they're dead now.

 

[Theozilla]

Okay, coming back to the time-loop discussion... For a loop to work, destiny/fate needs to have a role, since all events in the loop are destined to happen(since they already did happen). But we just destroyed destiny/fate, so how does that work? I mean, if there was a loop, the Whispers would be the ones trying to keep it going, but they're dead now.

Not necessarily, FFXIV does time travel where both casual loops and multiverse theory (i.e. new timeline creations) have both occurred. There's no "have to" with storytelling.

Heck Final Fantasy has been mixing the three main theories of time travel since FF1, which starts with a casual loop in existence and ends with it being broken (i.e. dynamic time travel). The fact that it "doesn't make sense/follow logic" is irrelevant to many storytellers.

Also while the party defeated The Whispers, it's still not clear if they are destroyed for good.

And regardless of their exact status, perhaps defeating/destroying The Whispers could end up being one of the specific events/things that inadvertently creates the casual loop, or perhaps creates the conditions/need for a casual loop to be created.
For example maybe, since it seems like the defeat of The Whispers and the Midgar fight with ??? Sephiroth caused alive!Zack to come into existence (and the Ultimania basically describes his existence as illogical/a paradox) perhaps whatever the plot does to resolve the issue of alive!Zack is what leads to a causal loop being created.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I’m pretty forgiving of the Remake’s changes but I would rather not have Zack join the party, at least not right away. SE didn’t put in all this effort just to not have him interact with the party in some capacity, but I definitely lean more in the direction of Zack having his own adventure until eventually catching up with Cloud.

My expectation is that it’ll further mindscrew Cloud, maybe we can even get a fight between them? Aerith and Zack reuniting seems like an obvious emotional beat to go for, I just hope it’s more bittersweet rather than happily ever after. Also SE, please kill them. Kill them differently if it floats your boat, but kill them.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Zack becomes playable in the future. Maybe as a side story like INTERmission? Or maybe he joins the party after Cloud goes missing? However they go about it, I don’t expect them to push Zack so much that it completely derails Cloud’s story. Based on FF7R’s ending, I expect a massive detour that recontextualizes the main story but still hits all the points.

I have no idea how the remake story will go, but I don't think it will be interchangeable with the OG like people want. I no longer believe it will be able to lead into Advent Children, for instance, because that's the timeline we broke from (the three whispers at the end are confirmed to be Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, trying to protect the timeline that made them). I think whatever happens will resolve the Sephiroth issue once and for all so he can't come back again.

My thoughts exactly on the whole “unknown journey” thing, a lot of hoopla over nothing if it doesn’t ultimately lead to a permanent end to Sephiroth

"Hey you guys, remember AC and the Compilation? We remember them! This is us showing that that stuff is still important and the Remake will still connect/comply with them!" to the players.

I think an advantage of Remake’s approach is, like with what we saw in the Yuffie DLC and somewhat in the main game, they can still take elements of the Compilation and retool them to do new things with. I don’t think it’ll be a big deal if Remake’s future is different from the post-OG, AC will always be the sequel to the OG no matter how different Remake turns out to be. It’ll be far from the most confusing thing about this franchise, that’s for sure lol.

 

[Theozilla]

I think an advantage of Remake’s approach is, like with what we saw in the Yuffie DLC and somewhat in the main game, they can still take elements of the Compilation and retool them to do new things with. I don’t think it’ll be a big deal if Remake’s future is different from the post-OG, AC will always be the sequel to the OG no matter how different Remake turns out to be. It’ll be far from the most confusing thing about this franchise, that’s for sure lol.

I just don't see the devs going out of their way to directly reference and include elements of works in the Compilation that occur in the franchise's chronological future and then end the Remake so that an entirely new future that's not canon with those previous Compilation (which take place in the future) works is created, seems counter-intuitive to me.

It would be like claiming the Percy Jackson The Hobbit films didn't add all that extra material to the films in order indicate that it connects and leads into previously existing The Lord of the Rings films.

 

[Ite]

Remake doesn’t take place before the Compilation, sequentially and chronologically it is the *latest* entry.

 

[Theozilla]

Remake doesn’t take place before the Compilation, sequentially and chronologically it is the *latest* entry.

I have already explained multiple times why I disagree with calling the Remake "a sequel" so I am not getting into that again.

My point was that The Remake takes place in the year 0007 of its setting, which is chronologically before the dates of Advent Children and Dirge of Cerebus (and other short stories) in that same franchise setting, while still being the latest entry in the Compilation. Like the Star Wars prequels coming out after the OT don't make them take chronologically after the OT.

 

[Odysseus]

The reason I don't think Advent Children can still happen after the Remake story is because of Sephiroth mainly. Like, any number of things could happen in Remake to make it impossible (Aerith and Zack living as a big one lol) but the main thing we already know for sure is Sephiroth is from the future. He's making good on his promise to "never be a memory". And there aren't multiple Sephiroths or anything; the Ultimania establishes all versions of him in Remake share a consciousness, so even if he takes different forms, it's all him. I don't think they'd just have him do Advent Children again, because that'd mean nothing is resolved. I believe the remake will be the end of the compilation, and Sephiroth will be dealt with for good. I wouldn't put it past them to have Advent Children Cloud appear to help deal the final blow lol.

Theo, you keep bringing up other prequels, but those don't have time travelling ghosts or several characters with knowledge of future events (okay well Star Wars does but not in the same way lol). Nobody would argue Crisis Core takes place after FF7, but Remake has several reasons why you can consider it so (from certain characters' perspectives).

 

[Theozilla]

The reason I don't think Advent Children can still happen after the Remake story is because of Sephiroth mainly. Like, any number of things could happen in Remake to make it impossible (Aerith and Zack living as a big one lol) but the main thing we already know for sure is Sephiroth is from the future. He's making good on his promise to "never be a memory". And there aren't multiple Sephiroths or anything; the Ultimania establishes all versions of him in Remake share a consciousness, so even if he takes different forms, it's all him. I don't think they'd just have him do Advent Children again, because that'd mean nothing is resolved. I believe the remake will be the end of the compilation, and Sephiroth will be dealt with for good. I wouldn't put it past them to have Advent Children Cloud appear to help deal the final blow lol.

Theo, you keep bringing up other prequels, but those don't have time travelling ghosts or several characters with knowledge of future events. Nobody would argue Crisis Core takes place before FF7, but Remake has several reasons why you can consider it so (from certain characters' perspectives).

I understand why other people may interpret the Remake as a "sequel" but what I am saying is that I disagree with that interpretation and what that argument suggests the devs are trying to do. And most of all I am simply not interested in retreading that same argument again and again (especially when I try to speculate how I think the Remake installments are going to be structured, when I do that I am not inviting debate on the subject of how faithful the Remake will be or not be to the OG's general plot).

If anything I think the ??? Sephiroth and however the mysteries around alive!Zack and Aerith's future knowledge will be resolved is going to inadvertently result in a casual loop that ensures that Remake's ending (and stuff after it) will still lead to Advent Children and Dirge of Cerebus occurring.

Basically by the time the Remake project is finished I expect the Compilation will be able to be understood/experienced as this:

The First Soldier --> CC & BC --> any short stories --> OG --> any short stories --> AC/C --> DC

with a separate Remake version/experience existing alongside it

The First Soldier --> CC & BC --> any short stories --> Remake project --> any short stories --> AC/C --> DC

and with Ever Crisis basically being an abridged/summarized version of all those above things.

 

[Odysseus]

I understand why other people may interpret the Remake as a "sequel" but what I am saying is that I disagree with that interpretation and what that argument suggests the devs are trying to do.

Well, it's all just speculation for now anyway. I can kind of see it going either way.

My current perspective, having worked on and read many translations from NKN recently is that they wanted to make an FF7 Remake, but they also wanted to make FFVII-2, and decided to simply do both (there's several discussions in the Crisis Core complete guide and other sources about whether they'd do a remake or FFVII-2). The reason I'd prefer it be more of a sequel than a bizarre alternate version of events is because it would lend the narrative more consequence. You can have Genesis and Weiss show up from Dirge's secret ending and resolve that dangling thread, you can stop Sephiroth from returning and running amuck again etc. If it was a story with no lasting impact, it'd feel kind of redundant imo. I think some of the desire for it to lead into AC and DoC is that if it doesn't, those stories will be invalidated, but I don't really see it that way. That whole branch still exists, the 500 years later scene happens, etc. It's just in the context of Remake those stories will serve to inform the motivations for Sephiroth as they are revealed to us, along with the party coming to better understand the consequences of what they did.

And most of all I am simply not interested in retreading that same argument again and again (especially when I try to speculate how I think the Remake installments are going to be structured, when I do that I am not inviting debate on the subject of how faithful the Remake will be or not be to the OG's general plot).

And that's fine. I know well enough that circular arguments suck ass. I won't debate the matter with you anymore if you don't want it. These are just kind of the heated questions on everyone's minds in regards to Remake, so you've gotta expect them to come up when discussion arises on an open board like this.

If anything I think the ??? Sephiroth and however the mysteries around alive!Zack and Aerith's future knowledge will be resolved is going to inadvertently result in a casual loop that ensures that Remake's ending (and stuff after it) will still lead to Advent Children and Dirge of Cerebus occurring.

The way I can see this working is that the plot of Remake resolves in the party understanding that the changes they've made have lead to an unwinnable situation, and the only recourse is to sacrifice what they have in order to "set things right" and return to the original events somehow. I just personally feel like it'd be a big ol' cop out.

 

[JBedford]

I just don't see the devs going out of their way to directly reference and include elements of works in the Compilation that occur in the franchise's chronological future and then end the Remake so that an entirely new future that's not canon with those previous Compilation (which take place in the future) works is created, seems counter-intuitive to me.

I think you're viewing Remake in a very specific way, because I don't see it as counterintutive at all.

The original timeline of games is necessary context to fully understand Remake. Whatever you want to call it, why should Remake not following into Advent Children matter? The original FFVII still follows into Advent Children, and FFVII+Advent Children et al still matter to Remake.

You bring up prequels but we're dealing with timeline/multiverse shenanigans here. It doesn't have to end up in the same place. There's a good chance it will end in the same place (because a lot of these types of things end up with 'correcting the timeline' endings). But it could go either way.

 

[Theozilla]

Well, it's all just speculation for now anyway. I can kind of see it going either way.

My current perspective, having worked on and read many translations from NKN recently is that they wanted to make an FF7 Remake, but they also wanted to make FFVII-2, and decided to simply do both (there's several discussions in the Crisis Core complete guide and other sources about whether they'd do a remake or FFVII-2). The reason I'd prefer it be more of a sequel than a bizarre alternate version of events is because it would lend the narrative more consequence. You can have Genesis and Weiss show up from Dirge's secret ending and resolve that dangling thread, you can stop Sephiroth from returning and running amuck again etc. If it was a story with no lasting impact, it'd feel kind of redundant imo. I think some of the desire for it to lead into AC and DoC is that if it doesn't, those stories will be invalidated, but I don't really see it that way. That whole branch still exists, the 500 years later scene happens, etc. It's just in the context of Remake those stories will serve to inform the motivations for Sephiroth as they are revealed to us, along with the party coming to better understand the consequences of what they did.

See I don't think the devs or SE are trying to do Remake and FFVII-2 at the same time, I think it's far more likely the Remake will end setting up a future FFVII-2 once the Remake Project is done.

The way I can see this working is that the plot of Remake resolves in the party understanding that the changes they've made have lead to an unwinnable situation, and the only recourse is to sacrifice what they have in order to "set things right" and return to the original events somehow. I just personally feel like it'd be a big ol' cop out.

I don't don't particular know how Watsonianly it might happen, and until we get more updates from SE on what Part 2 will entail I am not particularly interested speculating on the Watsonian hows presently. But I do think the Remake will resolve alive!Zack having to return to his original fate, and I don't think the Remake still ultimately leading to the AC/C and DC events is a cop-out, especially if defeating the ??? (future presumably) Sephiroth (along with the regular Sephiroth(s)) results in a casual loop, that ensures that AC/C and DC happen, because the heroes will have won against Sephiroth by ensuring that Sephiroth will always lose because he always lost, without him realizing it until the end of the Remake, and thus the party ensures their future is always "Remade".

I think you're viewing Remake in a very specific way, because I don't see it as counterintutive at all.

The original timeline of games is necessary context to fully understand Remake. Whatever you want to call it, why should Remake not following into Advent Children matter? The original FFVII still follows into Advent Children, and FFVII+Advent Children et al still matter to Remake.

You bring up prequels but we're dealing with timeline/multiverse shenanigans here. It doesn't have to end up in the same place. There's a good chance it will end in the same place (because a lot of these types of things end up with 'correcting the timeline' endings). But it could go either way.

Of course I am viewing the Remake in a very specific way, and I would also say people who view the Remake as a "sequel" are viewing the Remake in a very specific way too.

And by "matter", I don't mean in the Watsonian sense, any storyteller can create any in-narrative justification for what is happening in the plot. I mean "matter" in the Doylistic sense, since Advent Children still is a gateway for people to get into Final Fantasy VII (or Final Fantasy in general).

And from the way I have come away from playing the first Remake innstallment and reading all the developer statements/interviews so far I basically see this Remake project as the equivalent of if JRR Tolkien had actually ended up finishing the rewrite of The Hobbit he at one point was working on (that he ultimately shelved) that would have been more in line stylistically and tonally with his The Lord of the Ring books (since the The Hobbit was originally written as this stand-alone children's fantasy story and The Ring was originally just some random magic ring) and would have been much longer and directly foreshadowed the TLotR trilogy. That is how I am basically understanding this Remake project and what the devs are doing.

 

[JBedford]

And from the way I have come away from playing the first Remake innstallment and reading all the developer statements/interviews so far I basically see this Remake project as the equivalent of if JRR Tolkien had actually ended up finishing the rewrite of The Hobbit he at one point was working on (that he ultimately shelved) that would have been more in line stylistically and tonally with his The Lord of the Ring books (since the The Hobbit was originally written as this stand-alone children's fantasy story and The Ring was originally just some random magic ring) and would have been much longer and directly foreshadowed the TLotR trilogy. That is how I am basically understanding this Remake project and what the devs are doing.

If that's all it were more fans would be happy, but if that's all they were going for they wouldn't have added time ghosts. They wouldn't have changed the arbitrary things they did that only trouble the sequels (like reviving Biggs and Zack when they're inevitably going to have to die). They wouldn't have baked in the bit about the remnants fighting to keep their future intact.

They've clearly made Remake its own thing separate to be enjoyed separate from the original, with extra layers for those with knowledge of the original game. A revised Hobbit would have been a complete alternative to the original. Square are now planning to retell the original in Ever Crisis because Remake is not an alternative. Remake is another Rebuild or Higurashi Gou.

 

[Theozilla]

That's what many people were hoping for with Remake, but that's not what Remake is though. If that's what they were doing they wouldn't have added time ghosts. They wouldn't have changed the arbitrary things they did that only trouble the sequels (like reviving Biggs and Zack when they're inevitably going to have to die). They wouldn't have baked in the bit about the remnants fighting to keep their future intact.

They've clearly made Remake its own thing separate to be enjoyed separate from the original, with extra layers for those with knowledge of the original game. A revised Hobbit would have been a complete alternative to the original. Square are now planning to retell the original in Ever Crisis because Remake is not an alternative. Remake is another Rebuild or Higurashi Gou.

And I just disagree with that interpretation, I don’t think all the Whisper additions and alive!Zack stuff makes the Remake the equivalent of the Rebuild of Evangelion. I see it as an alternative telling/adaptation of the OG with references to the other Compilation titles and with additive time-wimey content and plot-threads.

And your description of the Remake as “its own thing separate to be enjoyed separate from the original, with extra layers for those with knowledge of the original game.” is exactly how I would describe something being a complete alternative from the OG.

Now I am fully prepared to be proven wrong, but so far the frame story of the Tales of Two Pasts and the developers statements appear to be aligning with my interpretation and expectations (from my PoV at least). So until I see something that definitively proves my interpretation as completely unviable, I will discussing the potential future installments of the Remake project from that mindset.

 

[ph14basicbitch]

Hoooooonestly, considering how traces of Buddhist principles can be found all over East Asian media (including other FF games), I would be surprised if Remake was not a "time loop as an allusion to Samsara" story. Maybe Sephiroth achieves Nirvana at the end of Remake? I too am expecting a Rebuild or Higurashi Go.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I don’t subscribe to the “sequel” label, “remake” really does just seem like the most apt description to me. As convoluted as it appears in delivery, I don’t give it much more thought then I would a remake of a film or TV series or even an adaptation of a novel. It’s the FF7 story told in a new continuity with new additions and changes, I mean I doubt we’re meant to retroactively treat the Remake’s changes and additions as if they now exist in the continuity of the OG.

Not to take a page out of Jairus’ playbook but the OG is the OG and the Remake is the Remake as far as I’m concerned (not that I think it means Remake will take the direction he’d like, but that’s another story lol). What I mean is, I don’t think there’s anything actually forcing SE to have post-Remake look the same as post-OG.

The reason I'd prefer it be more of a sequel than a bizarre alternate version of events is because it would lend the narrative more consequence. You can have Genesis and Weiss show up from Dirge's secret ending and resolve that dangling thread, you can stop Sephiroth from returning and running amuck again etc.

Unless the timespan of the Remake actually goes as far as recreating DoC and AC, maybe repurposing those plot points might be more practical? I dunno, I interpreted the ending of FF7R to basically be SE’s way of loosely covering Advent Children but I guess time will tell if that’s what they were going for

Now I am fully prepared to be proven wrong, but so far the frame story of the Tales of Two Pasts and the developers statements appear to be aligning with my interpretation and expectations (from my PoV at least). So until I see something that definitively proves my interpretation as completely unviable, I will discussing the potential future installments of the Remake project from that mindset.

Maybe not a nail in the coffin but there’s this

While some believe Final Fantasy VII Remakemakes the original obsolete, director Tetsuya Nomura knows better. In an interview with Famitsu, translated by Frontline Gaming, the director (and character designer of the original Final Fantasy VII) explains that Remake isn't meant to serve as a replacement for the original Final Fantasy VII, but a tribute to it, a brand new way to experience the story and characters of Final Fantasy VII using a brand new suite of technology. Frontline Gaming reports "Nomura says that Final Fantasy VII Remake's release does not overwrite the original Final Fantasy VII. The original is the origin, and VII Remake is only possible because of the original."

Would it take sense to you to create an HD Remaster of Compilation of Final Fantasy VII ( Before Crisis, Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus) on a unique platform like you did with Kingdom Hearts ? Beyond the possibility of making it, would you like to do this ?

Tetsuya Nomura : Concerning Final Fantasy VII Remake, which is a title loaded with a lot of mystery for now, it will be different from the original Final Fantasy VII. If we make a compilation, these games will hardly have an overall coherence. It will be difficult because there is no more continuity between the Compilation and the Remake for the moment.

When a remake of a film changes things from the original, as they often do, I think most people understand that because it’s a remake, it doesn’t have to be bound by the continuity of the original. I don’t think that in itself makes Remake a sequel nor do I think it makes it totally seperate. My go-to example is usually the Honeybee Inn. In the OG, it’s a brothel. In Remake, it’s a club. So if one asks which one is “canon”, I’d say to not equate “canon” with “continuity”. In the OG it’s one thing, in Remake it’s another.

I’d say the same goes for other things that straight up did not happen in the OG like Yuffie being in Midgar when the plate fell, the party fighting Jenova in the Shinra building, Cloud going to Jessie’s house etc. It’s easy to handwave that stuff and say “oh, those are just expansions” but did they actually happen in the OG? Well…no, they didn’t. Not much different than a film or TV adaptation of a story taking liberties with the source material in my book.

 

[Odysseus]

Unless the timespan of the Remake actually goes as far as recreating DoC and AC, maybe repurposing those plot points might be more practical? I dunno, I interpreted the ending of FF7R to basically be SE’s way of loosely covering Advent Children but I guess time will tell if that’s what they were going for

I'm not gonna totally unload all my ideas on you but in Discord me and Obs came up with some fun ideas for how to use Deepground in the Remake. My favorite was having each of them guard a Huge Materia, with the end goal being recruiting Weiss (who is his post secret dirge ending self via time memory shit) to help finish off Sephiroth for good by going down to Deepground and beating him up. Genesis would be recruited at around the same time since he's also down there lol. Shalua, already know to have worked with Avalanche in the past, could be in an Avalanche cell with Biggs and Wedge (still alive I bet $5) and help with this by getting Shelke on Cloud and Co.'s side.

 

[Theozilla]

Maybe not a nail in the coffin but there’s this

Yes, I am already aware of that quote, it’s from that French interview with Nomura from years before Remake came. People misinterpreted it as “Remake is going to completely disregard the Compilation and not acknowledge any parts of it!” and when we all know how that turned out with the actual Remake and Yuffie DLC which is choke full of Compilations references and even Hojo mentioned G and S type SOLDIERS. And then the devs describing the Remake as being the latest entry in the Compilation. That interview was more about there being an HD collection of the previously made Compilation games and titles like they had been doing with the Kingdom Hearts ReMixes and how Remake isn’t going to be pedantically constrained/shackled by the Compilation (which to be honest the Compilation has never even been constrained by itself to each other what with how many versions of the Nibelheim flashback got depicted being the go-to example). That doesn’t go against my understanding/interpretation/expectations at all.

When a remake of a film changes things from the original, as they often do, I think most people understand that because it’s a remake, it doesn’t have to be bound by the continuity of the original. I don’t think that in itself makes Remake a sequel nor do I think it makes it totally seperate. My go-to example is usually the Honeybee Inn. In the OG, it’s a brothel. In Remake, it’s a club. So if one asks which one is “canon”, I’d say to not equate “canon” with “continuity”. In the OG it’s one thing, in Remake it’s another.

I’d say the same goes for other things that straight up did not happen in the OG like Yuffie being in Midgar when the plate fell, the party fighting Jenova in the Shinra building, Cloud going to Jessie’s house etc. It’s easy to handwave that stuff and say “oh, those are just expansions” but did they actually happen in the OG? Well…no, they didn’t. Not much different than a film or TV adaptation of a story taking liberties with the source material in my book.

Yes, this is exactly how I am understanding and approaching the Remake project too. All those differences and additions are being done in the Remake because it is a Remake and the devs can change things up (and/or probably feel obligated too, imagine if they actually tried having Barret climb up a shiny wire to the Shinra Building, instead of changing it to be grappling guns). While the time-wimey stuff is being added because they want to and can add meta-textual themes to the story. I’ve compared the Remake to an adaptation many times in the past before as well.

 

[JBedford]

A Rebuild surely is any kind of media that at first appears to be a remake where the thing being remade is still somehow canon to it. Time ghosts throw people out windows for not respecting OG's events and its the future the characters are actively trying to avoid, so FFVII is canon to Remake even if you can't place it on your chronology.

Although I think KindOfBlue hit the nail on the head. The real matter is that even as a remake it wouldn't have to end the same way.

But as they're clearly willing to make changes such as introducing a new villain Sephiroth with different motives, and because the original+AC already exists as canon to Remake, they have even less obligation to end where the original did.

 

[Theozilla]

A Rebuild surely is any kind of media that at first appears to be a remake where the thing being remade is still somehow canon to it. Time ghosts throw people out windows for not respecting OG's events and its the future the characters are actively trying to avoid, so FFVII is canon to Remake even if you can't place it on your chronology.

Although I think KindOfBlue hit the nail on the head. The real matter is that even as a remake it wouldn't have to end the same way.

But as they're clearly willing to make changes such as introducing a new villain Sephiroth with different motives, and because the original+AC already exists as canon to Remake, they have even less obligation to end where the original did.

I am very aware of what the Rebuild films are, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on with the Remake. When all is said and done I still expect that the Remake project and OG can both fit with the Compilation titles with either one being swapped for the other. Which I stated before like this:

The First Soldier --> CC & BC --> any short stories --> OG --> any short stories --> AC/C --> DC

and a separate Remake version/experience existing alongside it

The First Soldier --> CC & BC --> any short stories --> Remake project --> any short stories --> AC/C --> DC

and with Ever Crisis basically being an abridged/summarized version of all those above things.

 

[Eerie]

I'm actually quite curious about a time loop direction, I think that is quite feasible judging by the way Aerith in particular acts

Aerith has flashes of the future (we learn this in ToTP). I think personally it's her future self from the Lifestream who gives her access to these in order to fight Sephiroth better. In the OG, he said himself that he travelled the Lifestream and gained access to all the memories in it. In Remake we learned that these memories are also memories from the future.

The original timeline of games is necessary context to fully understand Remake.

Yet players unaware of the OG and the Compilation are able to understand a lot about what's going on. On the other hand, even us are lost on some points and fighting since.

 

[JBedford]

@Theozilla
The definition I was using for Rebuild is just that the original's narrative is canon to the adaptation. Since at the very least FFVII is the basis for the timeline the whispers try to keep intact, I don't consider it a remake and consider Rebuild (and other recent bait remakes) the apt comparison. Whether FFVII and FFVIIR end up perfectly exchangeable in two separate cohesive chronologies is a separate matter.

Anyway, I don't have strong feelings either way whether it will lead into AC. I just don't consider it counterintuitive for Remake to not do that.