Dragon Ball Super
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Pretty positive no one was jumping for joy towards GT or anything Toei's board of writers were farting out since the 90s. Their writing was what literally killed the series.
It was Battle of the Gods (Toriyama's "canon" writing along with his manga side chapters) that rezzed Dragon Ball for the modern era. So I'm pretty positive Toriyama is what makes Dragon Ball not crap, especially when it comes to his own characters. Bardock's TV special was an entertaining unconnected side story, in the past, when there was nothing there but a face, bandana and a completely unknown history held together by chewing gum and duct tape. Bardock becoming a "good" Saiyan was true there too, he just was given some wacky telepathy powers to instigate that character development. So the only way he should evolve past being a bloodthirsty Saiyan is by being hit by psychic aliens?
It was Battle of the Gods (Toriyama's "canon" writing along with his manga side chapters) that rezzed Dragon Ball for the modern era. So I'm pretty positive Toriyama is what makes Dragon Ball not crap, especially when it comes to his own characters. Bardock's TV special was an entertaining unconnected side story, in the past, when there was nothing there but a face, bandana and a completely unknown history held together by chewing gum and duct tape. Bardock becoming a "good" Saiyan was true there too, he just was given some wacky telepathy powers to instigate that character development. So the only way he should evolve past being a bloodthirsty Saiyan is by being hit by psychic aliens?
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
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- Lulcy
Because Goku was the exception to his bloodthirsty culture, a culture that didn't give a shit about their own kind if they were weak, his kind heart nature is what allowed him to meet and train with masters and gods that pushed his limits and making him the strongest member of his brutish culture is a great cathartic story, one that is undercut if his father is another kindhearted saiyan.I don't know why Bardock having a heart and not being a mindless murderous ape like literally 99% of the Saiyans is a big deal, Bardock was never gonna be some average Joe Saiyan the minute he was drawn with Goku's face
- AKA
- Ody
It was canon until it wasn't. Toriyama even referenced it in his own manga before backtracking decades later. And he never evolved past being a normal saiyan in the special, unless you mean the dub version. That's what made it work; his psychic powers accomplish nothing, he only tries to stop freeza because he knows freeza will destroy planet Vegeta, not because Freeza was a tyrant or anything. Bardock liked his job lol. Bardock dies having accomplished nothing, and is forgotten. That's what makes the story work.
I'm just gonna leave this video here
I'm just gonna leave this video here
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Goku's exceptionalism goes beyond just his attitude. You really think there were no good Saiyans to ever exist but him?
What about the Super Saiyan God? What about the Saiyans who tried to resist Frieza and were killed off? What about the Saiyans who didn't want to kill the Tuffles? Unless the Saiyans are a hivemind, it's incredulous to believe there would never be a Saiyan that would exhibit some variance from the common cruel warrior type.
There have been numerous exceptions to the common denominator of Saiyan cruelty. Goku being "kind" is simply one aspect of his altogether unique characteristics. Bardock, Gine, Broly, Tarble and every other Saiyan who doesn't carry a homicidal itch are not just Goku. The series is more than large enough to accommodate some nuance in the Saiyan race.
That's some guy's review. Okay. I don't see what that is proving. I'm glad he likes it? The special's not bad but.... That's not the direction of the story based on the manga and what Toriyama wrote. It's a gaiden that flies in the face of the actual story. It's cool in its own right, but it's not something exceptional that's being erased via giving Bardock an actual backstory in line with the story. It's like how fans were mad Broly wasn't just a blood guzzling roided monster in Super, even though it gave him 100% more characterization and nuance than what Toei stamped him with.
Toriyama referenced that special because the anime referenced his design in constructing his backstory during the Frieza saga. That doesn't make Toei suddenly mind meld their special into Toriyama's actual story. Your point about Bardock "accomplishing" anything easily applies to Dragon Ball Super Broly, where he didn't overcome or save Planet Vegeta there either.
Not really seeing this dramatic shift in Bardock's actual story aside from scraping a Toei tv special and simply taking him in a direction that's different, albeit very similar to the previous one. Except sans the psychic impetus and torment. Hell, Bardock was questioning Frieza and the role Saiyans were playing in his empire before the visions. So what's with this whole rewrite of Bardock being a total monster? He never was.
What about the Super Saiyan God? What about the Saiyans who tried to resist Frieza and were killed off? What about the Saiyans who didn't want to kill the Tuffles? Unless the Saiyans are a hivemind, it's incredulous to believe there would never be a Saiyan that would exhibit some variance from the common cruel warrior type.
There have been numerous exceptions to the common denominator of Saiyan cruelty. Goku being "kind" is simply one aspect of his altogether unique characteristics. Bardock, Gine, Broly, Tarble and every other Saiyan who doesn't carry a homicidal itch are not just Goku. The series is more than large enough to accommodate some nuance in the Saiyan race.
That's some guy's review. Okay. I don't see what that is proving. I'm glad he likes it? The special's not bad but.... That's not the direction of the story based on the manga and what Toriyama wrote. It's a gaiden that flies in the face of the actual story. It's cool in its own right, but it's not something exceptional that's being erased via giving Bardock an actual backstory in line with the story. It's like how fans were mad Broly wasn't just a blood guzzling roided monster in Super, even though it gave him 100% more characterization and nuance than what Toei stamped him with.
Toriyama referenced that special because the anime referenced his design in constructing his backstory during the Frieza saga. That doesn't make Toei suddenly mind meld their special into Toriyama's actual story. Your point about Bardock "accomplishing" anything easily applies to Dragon Ball Super Broly, where he didn't overcome or save Planet Vegeta there either.
Not really seeing this dramatic shift in Bardock's actual story aside from scraping a Toei tv special and simply taking him in a direction that's different, albeit very similar to the previous one. Except sans the psychic impetus and torment. Hell, Bardock was questioning Frieza and the role Saiyans were playing in his empire before the visions. So what's with this whole rewrite of Bardock being a total monster? He never was.
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- AKA
- Ody
Super Saiyan God was made up well after the fact so I don't care about it. Are those other things actual things they did in super or is that just hypothetical?
I'm just saying, in the context of the original series, the Saiyans were nothing but evil. The thing that made Goku's conflict with Vegeta powerful was that it showed Goku rising above his place in society by virtue of the good will he was raised with and the principles he learned from his masters. He was sent to earth because he was low class and weak, but this disregard for him in the Saiyan society is what ultimately what lead him to be better than any of them. It's a compelling story, one I doubt Toriyama really even knew he was telling, but all the same. Having Goku have a loving family with a cute wifey-wife and an abnormally kind father just serves to make Goku less unique, it undermines what made him special and interesting to begin with. That's what happens when you go zombie franchise like Dragon Ball has, you lose what made it special to begin with.
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- Smooth Criminal
That's not Super, that's Toei. That's their writing from fillers, GT and Daizenshuu. The Saiyans weren't all evil in the past according to the anime, as well.
Once the Vegeta dynasty took over, displaced the Tuffles and conquered the whole planet, Saiyans became more bloodthirsty and violent. Then they were conquered by Frieza, and then they got wrecked.
Again why would there be absolutely zero good Saiyans, ever? That strains credibility on it's face.
And I don't know why you're trying to undercut and insult Toriyama's own story writing capabilities, as if he's not cognizant of his own writing and not the primary author of Dragon Ball and it's most successful arcs. He wasn't the one that put DB in a coffin for over 15 years.
Yes, that's the compelling story he's told and is still telling. Look at the most recent chapter and what Vegeta said to Granola. You're acting like Bardock and Gine got to spoil Kakarot and take him out for ice cream and play dates at the park. Like, that's not what has been shown about him or Gine at all. Bardock killed and conquered planets just like every other Saiyan, he just had a mind of his own. Just because the Saiyans are being written with more character than mindless murderous apes, doesn't somehow detract from Goku. That's reductionist. And it's not rewriting Bardock either.
Just look at Dragon Ball and explain how what Goku did throughout his life is like anything a Saiyan, good or otherwise, has experienced in their rigid, battle power level hierarchy. Him being an Earthling with friends, family and unique experiences, is what makes him unique. Not just being nice. Good Saiyans existed. They just died young and never advanced in society because of their weakness. They were the bottom of Saiyan society. So how is Bardock having a heart somehow proping him up, again? He's seen as a loser and low class in the canon telling, too.
Once the Vegeta dynasty took over, displaced the Tuffles and conquered the whole planet, Saiyans became more bloodthirsty and violent. Then they were conquered by Frieza, and then they got wrecked.
Again why would there be absolutely zero good Saiyans, ever? That strains credibility on it's face.
And I don't know why you're trying to undercut and insult Toriyama's own story writing capabilities, as if he's not cognizant of his own writing and not the primary author of Dragon Ball and it's most successful arcs. He wasn't the one that put DB in a coffin for over 15 years.
Yes, that's the compelling story he's told and is still telling. Look at the most recent chapter and what Vegeta said to Granola. You're acting like Bardock and Gine got to spoil Kakarot and take him out for ice cream and play dates at the park. Like, that's not what has been shown about him or Gine at all. Bardock killed and conquered planets just like every other Saiyan, he just had a mind of his own. Just because the Saiyans are being written with more character than mindless murderous apes, doesn't somehow detract from Goku. That's reductionist. And it's not rewriting Bardock either.
Just look at Dragon Ball and explain how what Goku did throughout his life is like anything a Saiyan, good or otherwise, has experienced in their rigid, battle power level hierarchy. Him being an Earthling with friends, family and unique experiences, is what makes him unique. Not just being nice. Good Saiyans existed. They just died young and never advanced in society because of their weakness. They were the bottom of Saiyan society. So how is Bardock having a heart somehow proping him up, again? He's seen as a loser and low class in the canon telling, too.
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Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
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- Lulcy
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- Smooth Criminal
Short but very sweet. That would be a very interesting match up
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
New characters are named Gamma 1 and Gamma 2.
Design for Korin, Bulma and Dende.
Story details:
* Takes place after DBS: Broly but before 28th Tenkaichi Budokai Tournament.
* Gohan family will make an appearence.
* Piccolo will play an important role.
* Piccolo will train Pan.
* Vegeta and Whis will appear in the movie.
For details not explicitly mentioned in the panel but can be seen in the trailer:
* The evil organization is potentially the Red Ribbon Army.
* Broly will appear and is sparring (?) with Goku.
Design for Korin, Bulma and Dende.
Story details:
* Takes place after DBS: Broly but before 28th Tenkaichi Budokai Tournament.
* Gohan family will make an appearence.
* Piccolo will play an important role.
* Piccolo will train Pan.
* Vegeta and Whis will appear in the movie.
For details not explicitly mentioned in the panel but can be seen in the trailer:
* The evil organization is potentially the Red Ribbon Army.
* Broly will appear and is sparring (?) with Goku.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
This plot certainly sounds intriguing, and I'm optimistic about Pan actually being able to do something. That seems pretty interesting to hint.
Though I really wonder who the fuck could be running the Red Ribbon Army now given all it's core members are dead. It looks more to me like a new organization or something, but who knows at this point
Though I really wonder who the fuck could be running the Red Ribbon Army now given all it's core members are dead. It looks more to me like a new organization or something, but who knows at this point
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
True, they could easily say that. Wouldn't be the first time, lol
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Seeing the comments section on r/dbz you'd think this was the worst looking thing ever made, but the cg honestly doesn't look bad to me. Sure as shit looks way better than the cg scenes in previous Dragonball films
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Well it's r/dbz, what do you expect?
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
...How the fuck did I miss the Red Ribbon insignias the first time through? 
This looks pretty awesome, it definitely benefits from the HD.
This looks pretty awesome, it definitely benefits from the HD.
ultima espio
Pro Adventurer
Chris Ayres passed away earlier this month:
https://kotaku.com/dragon-ball-voice-actor-chris-ayres-dies-age-56-1847898969
https://kotaku.com/dragon-ball-voice-actor-chris-ayres-dies-age-56-1847898969
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
Sutsivoiran
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- AverageNoid
It's a shame the new DBS movie won't be 2D animation and though the CG looks good I can't help but be a lil disappointed. Hopefully I'm completely wrong and it will work seamlessly. Some of the shots in DBS Broly were CG and they looked just fine but they were worked in to enhance the 2D.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy