Earliest cases of the Compilation SOLDIER logo?

[Shademp]

I've been trying to form a clearer picture of the transition from the original SOLDIER logo to the current one (introduced in the Compilation).

Original

Source: Cloud's hi-res model for the final CloudvsSephiroth battle


Compilation

Source: Crisis Core menu


So when did the transition happen? The earliest case where the new design is hinted at appears to be this promotional artwork for Advent Children. I think this artwork first appeared sometime in 2004. The new SOLDIER logo design is only hinted at here, mostly being covered by Sephiroth's coat.

I have looked at trailers for Advent Children, but none are hi-res enough to clearly show that a new logo design was being employed. If Advent Children figurines were released as early as 2004, that might have confirmed the redesign for some people.


Advent Children was originally released in Japan in 2005, September 14. I booted up my copy to try and get a clear picture of the SOLDIER logo design in this DVD version. It was impossible to make out the design for Zack and only with great difficulty did I find a shot that properly shows the design used for Sephiroth.

Spoiler

I don't remember the DVD version being this low quality. I'm thinking there might be some incompatibility issues with my video player. =/ If anybody can provide higher-res screens from early trailers and the movie that shows the SOLDIER logo, that'd be awesome.

Last Order was also released on September 14, 2005. One would think then that the new SOLDIER logo would be used for Last Order?

Spoiler: WRONG!

While the logo used by Deepground soldiers is usually equated to the old design, there are miniscule differences with the original version.

Spoiler: Original vs Dirge

Original

Dirge of Cerberus

Observe how the DG logo accentuates a blue eye inside the ring, while the "SOLDIER" version of the logo does not include the blue eye. It is not clear if the SOLDIER artwork is meant to depict a SOLDIER from Deepground or one from the surface. Either way, these normal-type SOLDIER do appear in Dirge of Cerberus gameplay.

What raised my curiosity about the transition from the old logo to the new one was in fact the Tutorial Mode of Dirge of Cerberus. In it you play as Turk Vincent and during it you face SOLDIER robots.

Spoiler: SOLDIER Class Robot

What I found curious was the fact that these SOLDIER robots from roughly 30 years before the original game use the logo that has become to typically be associated with Deepground. What does this mean?

Did the designers of Dirge consider this logo to be the standard SOLDIER logo, with the Advent Children & Crisis Core design not being acknowledged? Or is this the Deepground logo, with or without the blue eye? Was Tetsuya Nomura the lone character designer?

Does the appearance of the DG logo in the tutorial mode suggest that this design was used in-universe decades prior to Crisis Core, or was it merely a mistake that made the DG logo carry over to the SOLDIER robot of decades past?

Spoiler: Edit for those not in the know

By Crisis Core the new SOLDIER logo design had been fully embraced. Every SOLDIER member has it, minus the two Deepground soldiers that show up at the end.

Deepground soldier Weiss picking up Genesis

All these questions aside, I would be grateful if anybody could supply media that shows (preferably in higher quality than what I have) the transition from the original logo to the Compilation version.

 

[Ite]

Seems to me they used the circle-head-stick-man all the way up to CC, when they decided to differentiate between SOLDIER and Deepground cressets and created windows-head-chubby-man. Wonder why they didn't make the new logo Deepground and keep the familiar logo as the normal SOLDIER one, since there is an ENORMOUS PRECEDENT in both the OG and other Comp titles, but that's Squeenix for ya.

Also, inb4 "Last Order isn't canon" ppl.

 

[Shademp]

Seems to me they used the circle-head-stick-man all the way up to CC

That doesn't quite explain the apparent redesign being used as far back as 2004 for Sephiroth, possibly even for Zack (though the footage is too low quality to tell for sure).

I wish the robot SOLDIER in the DoC tutorial used the Crisis Core logo, because that would have left me less confused on the matter. The presence of the logo on that SOLDIER type, thirty years before the timeline of the original game, makes me question how smooth the transition was from the original SOLDIER logo to the new one. One does not know how much comes down to errors, bad planning, one hand not knowing what the other is doing etc.

 

[Odysseus]

It's worth noting that the compilation SOLDIER logo is also in Dirge of Cerberus. It's on the G reports and Genesis' outfit in the secret ending scene.

 

[Shademp]

Thanks Odysseus! In the middle of my excitement I somehow forgot this basic fact.

Spoiler: SOLDIER 'G'

The official sketch for Genesis has a slightly different version of the SOLDIER symbol.

This only strengthens my headcanon that the original SOLDIER logo was in use during Turk Vincent's time (see the robot SOLDIER), but then it changed to the one we know from the Compilation.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I really must thank Shad for bringing all of this up. In all my time thinking about the history of SOLDIER while writing that article about how the organization existed prior to Sephiroth, I never remembered there being reference to SOLDIER in Dirge's tutorial -- when Vincent was being trained as a Turk, and obviously before Sephiroth was even conceived, much less born.

I have to say that I feel we're encouraged to take the tutorial as representative of canon rather than just a simple gameplay tutorial since the AI(?) that speaks to Vincent in the training facility makes multiple references to Shin-Ra being known as Shin-Ra Manufacturing at this time, as it was during Vincent's days in the Turks. That's a deliberate choice in development to incorporate a (time)frame of reference from established canon.

I'll need to incorporate this into the article at some point.

 

[Ryuman]

This is something I've never really thought about, but is pretty interesting. I unfortunately can't find anything new, but it is clear to me that the Advent Children render uses the neo SOLDIER logo.

Spoiler: Slightly larger image of Sephiroth

However, I can not find an earlier example of the logo. As a Kingdom Hearts fan, I was hoping to find it as another carry-over, a missing link ala the wings. Although, I quickly remembered that Nomura excluded Cloud and Sephiroth's SOLDIER logos for different marks. Before Crisis never seems to give you a shot of it, from what I could quickly search. Considering the collaboration with Madhouse for animation and the examples provided of Last Order, perhaps it conceptually was the old logo.

At this point I truly believe this is an Advent Children thing that somehow happened and has since been further retconned into some kinda deep lore fact thanks to DoC.

 

[Shademp]

The earliest, clear sign of the SOLDIER symbol being retconned for Cloud (not just Sephiroth) seems to be the cover for the Ultimania Omega, which was released in 2005.

According to this source, the guide was first released on September 30, 2005 which is just over two weeks after Advent Children's release in Japan. Take into account that the book cover may have been released to the public earlier than September 30.

I highlight this part of the timeline because while previews of Zack in Advent Children, as well as the 2005 release itself, hinted at the new SOLDIER logo design it was never 100% clear like it is with Cloud on the cover of the FFVIIUO.


EDIT: The images I've seen of Cloud's design in the Advent Pieces release of the original game only appears to hint at the new SOLDIER logo, just like with Zack. Haven't found a hi-resolution image that clearly shows the symbol.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm less concerned with the notions of when it was "hinted at" versus fully visible, if only because it was obviously redesigned already in order for there to be a hint, no?

So, at a glance, the earliest it seems like we could say for sure is May 2004, when this pamphlet was given out at E3. However, I did a little investigative work and am confident we can push this all the way back to the time of the announcement (September 26, 2003 at the Tokyo Game Show).

- Exhibit A: A capture at Archive.org of how the wallpapers page at AdventChildren.net looked on November 2, 2003

AdventChildren.net's own wallpaper was already using the promotional images of Cloud and Sephiroth from the E3 2004 pamphlet by this date in early November of the previous year. The redesigned SOLDIER logo is clearly visible, even if not fully visible.

Let's take it even further if we can, though.
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- Exhibit B: Another Archive.org capture from November 2; this time of "Artwork and Miscellaneous images"

According to that page there, there was a display at the Tokyo Game Show with the same promotional image of Cloud and Sephiroth with which we've become so familiar.
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Even without Exhibit B, though, I'd feel confident at placing the redesign with the announcement. The other redesigned aspects of Sephiroth's outfit were already clearly in place there, and I doubt the logo alone would have received special attention in the month or so between the announcement and that image being captured at AdventChildren.net.

 

[ForceStealer]

^Isn't it crazy how all that stuff is much closer to the release of FF7 than it is to the present?

 

[X-SOLDIER]

^Isn't it crazy how all that stuff is much closer to the release of FF7 than it is to the present?

Oh mans.... I'd never considered that until now.

My whole mind is melting.





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