Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

I kinda feel I still would like some of the incredibly whack character bastardizations to be corrected once and for all....

The other whack character take I want addressed once and for all is the "Cloud leaves Tifa at the end of FF7-AC because he was pining and suicidal for Aerith and treated Tifa badly, so it's proof they're a bad couple together".

I really just want in sledgehammered in somewhere that Cloud's character is consistently written that he'd be willing to alienate himself / take blame / suffer in silence to protect people he cares about.
I get that, but at the same time, if someone legitimately believes that Tifa suddenly flipping from being Cloud's childhood bully to dropping everything to take care of him when he becomes a vegetable, and Cloud suddenly realizing he's in love with a dead woman he had known for about 2 weeks (who also happens to be the girlfriend of his best friend who gave his life for him) after deciding to move in with Tifa and start a family with her are the intended characterizations for the heroes of the story, then that is their problem. Like best of luck trying to consume any other media out there, buddy!

--

Should probably wait to formulate my thoughts until we get a fuller context/summaries of the new novella, but I like how it expands on Tifa's backstory without stepping on the major moments from her past that should be revealed in the main narrative. Namely, what happened when she & Cloud fell from the Mt. Nibel, the actual events of the Nibelheim Incident, and the moment she finds Cloud at the train station. The last one was the one I was most worried about after the cover was released, but thank goodness, they're holding onto that reveal.
Lifestream aside, that might be my favorite moment from the OG. It's the moment the game stops trying to play narrative tricks and we, the player, are able to learn the truth along with the characters. We switch to Tifa's POV and realize that this too has been the story we've been watching all along. Tifa's flashback to finding an incoherent Cloud isn't really a flashback in a traditional sense but the game essentially revealing that it had actually started in media res.

Why does the game begin with the first reactor mission? Up until this point, we assume it's because that's when Cloud first meets Aerith. The extraordinary hero meets the extraordinary heroine, and it launches us into the story of the Ex-SOLDIER & the Last Cetra saving the world from Sephiroth, his former comrade and the enemy of her kind. After Tifa's reveal, the opening mission is re-contexualized. While the importance of Cloud meeting Aerith is not diminished, we realize that the only reason Cloud was a part of that mission in the first place was because Tifa wanted to watch over him. That first mission also marks the beginning of a different story: an ordinary woman re-encounters an ordinary man from her past who is putting on a strange facade that makes her question her own memories; slowly and painfully, they break down the barriers that have been erected between them and the truth. Of course, since the Cloud we meet at the beginning of the game is desperate to erase his ordinariness, the "real" opening of the story (i.e., Tifa finding Cloud at the station) is hidden from the player since it's the part of Cloud he's hiding from himself.

Which is why I love how the novella explicitly confirms that the reason Tifa falls in love with Cloud is because she realizes he is ordinary. One of the biggest obstacles in their relationship is that they both put the other on a pedestal. In an extreme example of girls maturing faster than boys, Tifa actually figures this out at the age of 13! She finally sees Cloud for who he really is, and realizes that this is the boy she loves. Of course, once the game starts, she's regressed (she kinda has to! where's the drama if she's already figured it all out?). This is largely because the Cloud she meets again seems to be this great ex-SOLDIER. Once again, he seems extraordinary and out of reach, and maybe a better fit for an extraordinary woman like her new friend Aerith. To complicate matters, this new Cloud is so deep in his delusions that he's seemingly forgotten the reason he wanted to be extraordinary in the first place (i.e., to impress Tifa) and he even starts to think he should be with the extraordinary heroine. (I'd argue this point is only present in the OG). Theirs is the story of dismantling these delusions and learning to see the other as they truly are, warts and all, and loving them still.

I've come to think that every great love story is also a coming-of-age story, which is why Cloud and Tifa's romance is so damn satisfying. They're absolutely instrumental in the other's personal growth. Here's a very simplistic version of the Hegelian dialectic model of Cloud's arc:

Thesis: As a child, Cloud thinks that he needs to be strong like Sephiroth in order to be great.​
Antithesis: Throughout the game, Sephiroth (and reality, lbr) argues to Cloud that he is actually weak.​
Synthesis: In the Lifestream, Cloud realizes that he has to accept his own weakness before he can find the strength to defeat Sephiroth.​
This is more or less an accurate summary of Cloud's arc, but it lacks a certain flavor because it's missing the real impetus behind Cloud's actions: Tifa.

Why does Cloud want to be strong in the first place? Because he blamed himself for being too weak to protect Tifa when they fell from the mountain.​
Who is he most terrified of appearing weak to? I mean honestly everyone, but most likely the person who he's putting up this facade of strength to impress in the first place.​
Thus to find his true strength, Cloud must confess his weakness to the one person he's most terrified of appearing weak to, which he finally does with Tifa in the Lifestream.​
The great irony of it all is that Tifa never wanted the strong, extraordinary Cloud. She was always in love with the "weak," ordinary boy next door. And all it takes is the end of the world for him to figure it out.
 
They seem fully committed to develop the trope of 'two characters too shy for their own good falling for each other but thinking that the other person is leagues above'. It's a funny and interesting trope, imho.

Also, take care browsing Twitter, things are getting specially toxic since the release of Tifa's part.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Yeah Twitter's pretty bad right now. There's a big summary on TLS of what could be found here if you want to be sure to read everything. However, I think there is still a lot missing, because Audrey was only at page 40 at the end of her summary for the Tifa's part, so there were more than 150 pages missing and all the info we have so far probably doesn't fill it all. But there are some parts I really wanted to know so I'm curious now to see how it's filled.

And because it's happening during the next game (Junon and the ship, basically), I wonder if we'll see the two girls chatting together. I remember that in Junon, they were talking together when Cloud ends up alone, so that might be where they talk.

Oh and also it seems that Jessie taught Tifa how to walk on a stage for her birthday - I wonder if we'll see that used in her GS date? XD But that's probably 2 games away :puppy:
 
Also, take care browsing Twitter, things are getting specially toxic since the release of Tifa's part.
As expected, because even if some people want to dismiss Tifa's impact in Cloud's life and the nature of their relationship, they KNOW all this built-up is not for nothing. You don't write and publish a whole novel about the relationship of the two main characters just to end their shared story in a negative light. It's just not marketable, and this is not a love story (there are many things that need to be addressed in the story beyond their relationship).

At this point it's just "damage control" on their part.
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Nah man, you just don't get it. Cloud and Aerith got married off screen, and their best friend Reno was the best man! All the THEMES and PARALLELS clearly point to it. Their love and Marriage clearly echoes the forbidden love of Gast and Ifalna. Aerith was actually pregnant with Cloud's child, and Cloud's real reason for wanting revenge on Sephiroth is to avenge his wife and unborn child. He actually hates Tifa because of her SLAVELIKE devotion to him.It's so obvious, all of you just lack reading comprehension. If you're still in denial you're gonna overdose on copium.

Too bad that hack Nojima decided to pander to the SJW cringe Clotis, that fucking sell out. He totally assassinated Cloud's character.

so much pain, I have witnessed.
Wtf did I just read lmao
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Ahhhhhh!


Follow the link to get the full description!

Some highlights:


True Cloud cheering Cloud to do it just as all the players who got this scene did lol 😆


This is framed as romantic by Audrey BTW:


So basically yes true Cloud shows to push himself to hug Tifa, and yes this is romantic and it makes Cloud truly happy to be able to become Tifa’s hero as he can be there for her when she needs it most. 💖
 

verse1994

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
verse
Welp, guess we can scratch “the hug was completely platonic” and “Tifa was crying because the flower being crushed represents her realizing Cloud has fallen for Aerith” off of the list of fan interpretations to consider
Lmao! This is really the punch line of my day. Thanks for reminding me of those hilarious takes.

Hi! Folks! I joined the forum last year when the game came out and was upset about those crazy comments and denials bashing on Tifa because of LTD. This forum's thoughtful comments and analysis really warmed my heart and gave me the confidence I understand the whole story correctly! Now after the new novel and Ultimania come out, come back to check all of my previous worries and concerns, it is such a relief and can't help thinking how stupid and insecure I was lol.

Even though I can still see some denials and teaching Japanese understand Japanese dramas on twitter nowadays, I can't be more happy to just wait how their relationship gets to the climax by the devs with all those background supports from the new materials!:mon:
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
The LTD outside TLS is pretty toxic right now, I'd advise you to avoid the Twitter tags, sadly (because there is a lot of great art, but since it's usually posted here...). Right now I'm really awaiting the release in either English or French of the novel, and the announcement for the next game (which I expect in 2023, so we're getting closer by the day lol). Next year should be FFXVI year, but we'll have Ever Crisis to help us wait :)
 

verse1994

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
verse
advise you to avoid the Twitter tags
Thanks for the advice! Yeah I know, now my mindset just changes a bit. Instead of feeling just confused and concerned, I cant help defending our beloved Tifa sometime. I guess thesedays it is toxic due to the new novel, it shall chill as time goes before any new information.

which I expect in 2023
Oh man, I hope next year I can see at least some trailers. Life is just too short to wait for the game:rage: Think about how horrible last year it was, I just hope everyone stay safe and sound so we can witness the story in 4K together.
 

JT77fp

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Yeah people shouldn't need Ultimanias to re-explain what the storytelling already made obvious. Some fans would rather settle everything in a court of law than just sit back and enjoy the cinematography.
Yes, these Ultimanias are so redundant. :) Spelling out the bloomin' obvious!

What we want, nay, NEED is an ultimania explaining how good Tifa is as a nurse. Did she scrub Cloud down good every day? Made his little bed and fluffed up the cushions on his wheelchair? Or was she a NAUGHTY NURSE??!
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Yeah people shouldn't need Ultimanias to re-explain what the storytelling already made obvious. Some fans would rather settle everything in a court of law than just sit back and enjoy the cinematography.
In MOST cases I don’t care to look too much beyond letting the art speak for itself but something about FF7 invites the weirdest of takes so it’s nice to get validation about the story not being nearly as cringe-inducing as some of the fan interpretations out there lol

Lmao! This is really the punch line of my day. Thanks for reminding me of those hilarious takes.

Hi! Folks! I joined the forum last year when the game came out and was upset about those crazy comments and denials bashing on Tifa because of LTD. This forum's thoughtful comments and analysis really warmed my heart and gave me the confidence I understand the whole story correctly! Now after the new novel and Ultimania come out, come back to check all of my previous worries and concerns, it is such a relief and can't help thinking how stupid and insecure I was lol.

Even though I can still see some denials and teaching Japanese understand Japanese dramas on twitter nowadays, I can't be more happy to just wait how their relationship gets to the climax by the devs with all those background supports from the new materials!:mon:
Welcome back :awesome:
 

null

You は Shock
AKA
null
In MOST cases I don’t care to look too much beyond letting the art speak for itself but something about FF7 invites the weirdest of takes so it’s nice to get validation about the story not being nearly as cringe-inducing as some of the fan interpretations out there lol
But the cringe-inducing interpretations just get applied to the companion guides instead. As was the case during the golden age of koi_____________bito, two obviously unrelated and coincidentally adjacent words.
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
It feels like the sector 7 part of FF7R now just a giant throwback to the novels. You have Cloud and Tifa being actual neighbors in Stargazer Heights, they spend their running around chasing cats just like they did in childhood, you have an awkward kind-of-a-date moment (FF7R = the convo in her room, OG = the water tower) and you have Cloud being a prick to the Item Shop Owner, and if I read correctly, Emilio is the son of the Item Shop owner in Nibelhiem LOL.

Jt77fp said:
What we want, nay, NEED is an ultimania explaining how good Tifa is as a nurse. Did she scrub Cloud down good every day? Made his little bed and fluffed up the cushions on his wheelchair? Or was she a NAUGHTY NURSE??!
The latter part comes much, much, much later.

Reading the novels make me wonder if the Clerith will still like Cloud for...Cloud though. I think the devs have gone ham with this 16-going-on-21 characterization, and I can't see KH 1 / KH 2 Cloud / AC Cloud in him anywhere.

The Vincent-esque deep and brooding, pining over a lost love....seems totally incongruous with this jealous-inexperienced-awkward-with-women Cloud of the Remake.
 
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KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
As was the case during the golden age of koi_____________bito, two obviously unrelated and coincidentally adjacent words.
I don’t know what you’re referring to *wink wink* but seeing as I have no idea what those completely innocuous words could possibly mean, I wonder if the debate over that has ever been settled
 

verse1994

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
verse
Hey guys!

Not sure anyone posted it. So I found in the Tifa's novel.
Tifa says that Cloud left village without saying a goodbye when she was still in sleep. It matches the song of midgar blues so well. So can I safely say the midgar blues english lyrics is real Cloud's canon POV?

Midgar Blues English Lyrics
Oh Midgar, Midgar, city that's always on my mind
For Midgar, Midgar, I left my one true love behind

Snuck outta the town before the sun could rise ⁠— when I knew you'd be sleeping
Could barely read the words on my carriage ticket ⁠— non-stop to Midgar

Our parting words never said, only to be washed away
Swept up and lost in the stream of life

This is so touching and shed a tear. If so (without my so-called shipping goggle), I feel sad for both of those who are deeply in love but still unaware of each other. And I can only imagine how it would be look like when they communicate their feeling.
 
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