Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

[OneWingedDemon]

I'm not surprised they've carried over Cloud's hero complex when it comes to Tifa. He's her hero and this is something central to their story. Even if he's on the opposing side, Cloud still has lingering memories/feelings regardless of whether he can attach a face to them in Dissidia.

So even when

Spoiler

he dies

and can't protect her anymore he entrusts her to Cosmos (who does a great job ).

So now...if

Spoiler

his dying words were "protect Tifa plz, kthnx bai"

then when he says "the one I really want to meet is..." at the very end, do you think he means Tifa? I would assume so, considering his whole spiel about meeting the REAL Cloud blah blah blah in Lifestream sequence and later. And considering that when they saw each other last in Dissidia, they did not know each other. It makes sense (unless they later shove Aeris in the next game and make it about her).

In fact, looking at that quote in context (he says that after Seph's blah blah on him being a part of Cloud and stuff, right?) I don't think it was ever about Aeris.

Cloud lost his dream (his own dream) because he lost himself in his real world. Like in FFVII, when he takes upon Zack's sword (Zack in CC says: "my dreams, my honor...are yours now"), he takes on Firion's dream/rose in Dissidia.

In the end I suppose it could be pushed either way because other than that, I can't find a single other possible Aeris reference and I'd think they'd shove one in, but....thoughts?

 

[Eerie]

Mmh, the thing is, I'm not getting when Dissidia is supposed to happen, in the FFVII timeline? I think there was something like that that came up for Dissidia XIII but that's fuzzy in my memory. Kinda hard to make guesses when I can't pinpoint when they're supposed to be taken out of their storylines to play. ><

 

[Celes Chere]

"the one I really want to meet is..."

This only makes sense with Tifa, now that we have the new info. I mean really, why the fuck would it be Aerith? She's not even mentioned once.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

It has little to do with the actual FFVII timeline though.
I was only looking at Dissidia and the stories and themes that carry over from the characters' original worlds. For example, the parallel between Firion and Zack is clear.

I know people go on about the dream being something to do with Aeris just because it is a wild rose that symbolizes Firion's dream, but that argument is juvenile...and imo quite stupid. "Oooh, look, both are flowers. Aeris liked flowers!"

The rose itself isn't significant to Cloud's story though. The act of adopting it as his own is what is repeatedly emphasized. Sephiroth himself spells it out for you when he keeps taunting Cloud about what his dream is and what he fights for. Sephiroth tells Cloud that he has nothing of his own. That's why Sephiroth calls him a puppet.

The focus is always on Cloud's inability to find his OWN reason, like Firion. Terra asks him what HIS dream is. It is a throwback to the passing of the Buster Sword and Zack passing on his dream to Cloud, saying they are now his when he names him his living legacy. The rose is significant to Firion and symbolizes that dream like the Buster Sword is a symbol for Angael and Zack (and eventually Cloud).

Zack's story in CC was all about the dream of a soldier. Cloud has several lines that are a throwback to Zack in Dissidia itself.

Fight with pride and I'll live your life for you & it's a memento/important sword just to name a few.

Firion has a simple and childish dream, like Zack. And it propels him forward. It keeps him fighting. He'll never give up on his dreams. Dreams, dreams, dreams. It is repeated ad nauseum.

Zack tells Cloud in CC to "embrace your dreams... If you want to be a Hero, you need to have dreams."

Aeris who? Never made any sense to me.

 

[Dashell]

So, afterthoughts Quex?

See I what I FIGURED would happen was Cloud would say something like he switched to protect someone or he did it for someone he cares about or something where it'd be obvious it was Tifa, but the Cleriths would try to argue Aerith.

But he said Tifa's name so that won't work

 

[Strifegirl]

Let's say that Square Enix takes out another Dissidia (theoretically speaking) do you really think Zack could be in it? xD (just a theory :3)

 

[Vendel]

I knew it was coming. But when Cloud is laying there and finally says....."Tifa", I felt like having a smoke.

Spoiler

 

[Dashell]

Actually guys we were wrong, see they made Tifa act like Aerith. Therefore the scene and game is actually Clerith.

Looks like we lost

 

[Eerie]

LOLOLOL WHAT? Tifa acts like Aerith? WHERE? ._.

Tifa has always been a kind fighter who'd cheer up the rest of Avalanche and would fight for them. I see no difference ._.

Also, OWD, I understand now; and you're right, Cloud's last quote can only be taken as a desire to see Tifa for someone who plays Duodecim. Because Cloud's actions revolved around Tifa in Duodecim, the Dissidia ending makes only sense if it's her he wants to see again.

That said, they can change his quote or it could have been a nod to Aerith, because he wanted to see meet with her again in the game. With Duodecim though, it makes no sense at all, because she isn't mentioned even once.

 

[Dashell]

LOLOLOL WHAT? Tifa acts like Aerith? WHERE? ._.

EVERYWHERE!

No idk, butthurt people are butthurt.

and I agree that 'The one I want to meet is..." line can be said to be Tifa now. I honestly did think it was Aerith at first, but with this new information, you can certainly argue that it's Tifa he's talking about.

 

[Lily Ella]

Also, OWD, I understand now; and you're right, Cloud's last quote can only be taken as a desire to see Tifa for someone who plays Duodecim. Because Cloud's actions revolved around Tifa in Duodecim, the Dissidia ending makes only sense if it's her he wants to see again.

Plus, doesn't Tifa ask (before she takes off) if they'll meet again someday?


Anyway, where/when did this obsession with the whole "meet" thing start anyway? Meeting is meeting... seeing... maybe some chit-chatting. When did it become this HUGE ROMANTIC SUPER IMPORTANT thing? Pffffft.

@the way Tifa's acting: I'll agree that she's perkier and more ~optimistic~ than usual, but that does not make her "aeris-like." At all. Also, this is a place/world where she remembers nothing about the past. She was quite the little happy, talkative girly-girl when she was a teenager (pre-destruction of Nibleheim). She's kind of acting more like the way she did when she was a teen.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I don't think they'd include Zack simply because he'd fight exactly like Cloud. And they'd have to share the Buster Sword. Not to mention their outfits would be the same. :\

I agree that 'The one I want to meet is..." line can be said to be Tifa now.

Tifa: We will meet again right?

BTW, quick question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQA4_vPZc8
Is the end part just in quotation marks cause he's technically thinking instead of speaking?

Cloud: "If your memories return then you'd definitely refuse to fight."
Cloud: "So then."
Cloud: "Before that happens, I'll&#8212;"

...thoughts on this last bit? I'm not entirely sure I'm reading it right. It sounds like Cloud knows shit.

LOL, Jem beats me.

 

[Elisa Maza]

I see no difference between OG Tifa and Duodecim Tifa. I think the whole "let's put more emphasis on Aerith because she leaves soon!" deal hurt Tifa's characterization more than I thought.

Anyway, the whole deal with the Dissidia and the "meetings" reminds me of the OG, actually. In the beginning of the game, things were vague about who Cloud loves, with Aerith as the obvious candidate because of the cliche formula they fit in. But no! The rug is pulled and we learn that it was Tifa all along!

Same with Dissidia: in the beginning, there are homages to Aerith and her flowers, the "meet" line CAN refer to Aerith, Cloud goes poof in a flower field...

But no! The rug is pulled and we learn that it was Tifa all along!

And seriously, Dissidia is taking the stories and personalities of the characters they had in their OGs and presenting them simplified. They did the same with the whole LT: is it Aerith? It COULD be Aerith! No! It was Tifa all along!

Clean and dusted.

 

[Lily Ella]

I see no difference between OG Tifa and Duodecim Tifa. I think the whole "let's put more emphasis on Aerith because she leaves soon!" deal hurt Tifa's characterization more than I thought.

Nah, didn't hurt Tifa's characterization at all. Peeps are just being thilly, and are making up cwazy excuses. Even the flippin' FFVII manual describes Tifa as ~bright and optimistic chickie who always cheers up her friends~ or something lame like that.

Same with Dissidia: in the beginning, there are homages to Aerith and her flowers, the "meet" line CAN refer to Aerith, Cloud goes poof in a flower field...

I'm not sure if I would even call them homages. Very slight nods or chicken bones for the fans, maybe. Flower fields? What else would he have walked through? A galley of wine bottles? Flowers are pretty, and fit with the scene... combined with the fact that those lilies in general are associated with FFVII. Aeris, Zack, Cloud, Tifa have all been pictured with those flowers around them at one point. Materia? Tifa prob would have gotten the same crystal/materia/whatever in 012, had she made it through.

...thoughts on this last bit? I'm not entirely sure I'm reading it right. It sounds like Cloud knows shit.

No idea. That line kind of confused me too. Mebbe it'll make more sense to us in the English version.

 

[Dashell]

I think Cloud remembers Tifa, and doesn't really know how to handle it. He knows he's on her opposing side so just sorta went there to wing it. Then he decided then and there that he would betray Chaos for her and he knew he'd probably end up dead.

 

[Elisa Maza]

The scene in a better translation.

"Cloud..." The way she repeats it seems to hint that there are some memories stirring in her, even if she's not fully aware of what they are yet, but after a moment she breaks out of her daze and apologises. She can't help herself from pushing a little further, though, and she asks him if he might be someone she knows. Even though most of her memories from before the fighting are gone, when she heard his name just now-- No, he interrupts her, still staring at the ground, he doesn't know anything about her at all. Cloud, you dirty liar. In its own way this is Nibelheim all over again, isn't it: Cloud can't be what he wants to be for Tifa, so now he hides behind her faulty memories in just the same way as he hid behind that Shina Trooper's mask back when he was sixteen. Some things never change, and that's sad in its own way.

Sooooo true! And look at that, adult Cloud seems to hold the same feelings for Tifa as teen Cloud.

Also, this is definitely pre-ACC Cloud. It HAS to be. After-ACC Cloud decided to open up instead of believing he could do everything on his own.

 

[Roger]

I think you mean pre-ACC Cloud.

 

[Strifegirl]

Actually guys we were wrong, see they made Tifa act like Aerith. Therefore the scene and game is actually Clerith.

Looks like we lost

why they keep bringing this up?!

LOLOLOL WHAT? Tifa acts like Aerith? WHERE? ._.

Tifa has always been a kind fighter who'd cheer up the rest of Avalanche and would fight for them. I see no difference ._.

I totally agree u.u I did felt like she was being TOO nice with someone that's supposed to be her enemy o.o but it never crossed my mind that her personality was like Aerith xD

Actually, I find it somehow hilarious that some Cloti fans thinks that way xDDD you can't prove canon without facts u.u and obviously, the whole "hero" thing was a hint to Cloud and Tifa's promise under the stars :3 where's the Clerith in that? D:

That said, they can change his quote or it could have been a nod to Aerith, because he wanted to see meet with her again in the game. With Duodecim though, it makes no sense at all, because she isn't mentioned even once.

She's not even in the game D: just like an assist xD all that holy materia and flower field crap was just fanservice xDDD

I see no difference between OG Tifa and Duodecim Tifa. I think the whole "let's put more emphasis on Aerith because she leaves soon!" deal hurt Tifa's characterization more than I thought.

Anyway, the whole deal with the Dissidia and the "meetings" reminds me of the OG, actually. In the beginning of the game, things were vague about who Cloud loves, with Aerith as the obvious candidate because of the cliche formula they fit in. But no! The rug is pulled and we learn that it was Tifa all along!

Same with Dissidia: in the beginning, there are homages to Aerith and her flowers, the "meet" line CAN refer to Aerith, Cloud goes poof in a flower field...

But no! The rug is pulled and we learn that it was Tifa all along!

And seriously, Dissidia is taking the stories and personalities of the characters they had in their OGs and presenting them simplified. They did the same with the whole LT: is it Aerith? It COULD be Aerith! No! It was Tifa all along!

Clean and dusted.

agreed!

I love these kind of topics in which the obvious facts proves that everything else is pure speculation.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

all that holy materia

It's not even the White Materia.
It's a generic green magic materia. The most common kind in FFVII.

 

[Dashell]

Actually, I find it somehow hilarious that some Cloti fans thinks that way xDDD you can't prove canon without facts u.u and obviously, the whole "hero" thing was a hint to Cloud and Tifa's promise under the stars :3 where's the Clerith in that? D:

Well you see, the promise was something only Tifa wanted. Cloud didn't want to go through with it. Tifa forced him. Ergo not Cloti, ergo Clerith

 

[Strifegirl]

Well you see, the promise was something only Tifa wanted. Cloud didn't want to go through with it. Tifa forced him. Ergo not Cloti, ergo Clerith

If he didn't wanted to fulfill that promise, then he wouldn't made that promise on the first place D:

Tifa did made him promise to her but it was only because she wanted to have something precious to hold onto him and in the end, he agreed cause he also wanted to have a reason to come back to her D: (not to mention that he has a crush on her ) and you can see that he's always trying to keep that promise no matter what

 

[LunarSkye]

This came from the official site, yar? Because you know how absolutely important official art is. It establishes the canon, dontcha know.

I think it's fanmade. I found it on dA.

 

[Elisa Maza]

Fanarts ahoy! Dissidia inspired people, I see.

Spoiler: Gimme back ma Tifa!

Spoiler: Some cute ones

Spoiler: THE CUTEST ONE!

 

[Dashell]

HE SAID CHANGE OF HEART!! CANON!

 

[Elisa Maza]

I come with CloTi doujin (that can also be counted as Family, but the focus is on Cloud and Tifa)!

Love Monster.

Where Cloud gets Tifa a piano, pantythief!Cloud comes to light and Tifa has some interesting news from the doctor.

Let's go to School!

AU, where Tifa is the student and Cloud the perverted teacher.

Enjoy!