FF7 Relationships

[Marle]

So, after discussing things with Aaron about this thread, I've been given the okay to make it as long as the rules from the LTD are still adhered to in here as well.

It's come to my attention that many people simply enjoy discussing opinion and interpretation in the LTD thread but, obviously, are not really allowed to because everything is strictly canon and quotes and ultimanias.

But, some really cool discussions have happened with opinion and interpretation in regards to the relationships in FF7, whether it be Cloud/Tifa, Cloud/Aerith, Tifa/Aerith, the 7th Heaven Family, the Turks, AVALANCHE, etc. and well...I think it'll be fun to discuss them in peace.

So here's a thread dedicated to what you guys think about the relationships and perspectives on the wonderful characters of Final Fantasy 7; no quotes or debating required!

So, do you think Cloud loved Aerith romantically? Why or why not? Do you think Cloud loves Tifa romantically? Why or why not? Or is Barret/Tifa more romantic?

Really, just about anything can be said in here as long as we stay on topic and don't spam.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Really, just about anything can be said in here as long as we stay on topic and don't spam.

Well, as long as you're respectful of each other's opinions. But yeah, as long as people do that I think we can give this thread our blessing.

 

[aerbear]

Hello, vastly improved LTish thread that will not give heart attacks and stress-induced nightmares. Tis good to meet you.

I think Cloud loves Aerith because she brought out the best in him.

 

[Theozilla]

So is this supposed to be more like the "FF7 Headcanons and Discussion" thread but less comical and with a focus on the relationships of FFVII in general?

 

[Marle]

I think Aerith brought the best out of Cloud, too. :3 Even though he was so screwy in disc one and weird and asshole-y, he seemed the most like the real Cloud when he was with her and if it weren't for her opening him up in that way, I don't think he'd have realized half the shit he realizes in disc one.

Like, he's dedicated to almost nothing until she gets kidnapped. I loved that moment because the real Cloud showed himself a bit <3 :3

@Theozilla: Nah, this is more like the love triangle discussion (and other relationships in the game) minus the snark, canon stuff and quote attacking.

Basically, you can discuss all aspects of the relationships, romantic, friendship, familial. Anything goes.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I was actually under the impression when Ava came up to me with the idea of starting this thread that this would be a thread about people's personal interpretations of the relationships between characters rather than opinions on what is actually canon. That may just be a result of me misreading due to sleep deprivation though.

Anyway it should be fine in its current form but it may be difficult to enforce "no long quote arguments" if it focuses on canon.

My personal opinion is that Cloud definitely loves Tifa and may have had romantic feelings for Aerith, although there wasn't really time for the latter to develop properly. It's fairly apparent that Aerith loved both Zack and Cloud.

 

[Marle]

I was actually under the impression when Ava came up to me with the idea of starting this thread that this would be a thread about people's personal interpretations of the relationships between characters rather than opinions on what is actually canon. That may just be a result of me misreading due to sleep deprivation though.

Anyway it should be fine in its current form but it may be difficult to enforce "no long quote arguments" if it focuses on canon.

Yes, yes, this is what I meant. What you think of canon or not doesn't really apply. :T I was just trying to start up a topic by asking people who they think Cloud loved and why. But I don't expect quotes or: CLERITH/CLOTI IS CANON. That's for the actual LTD thread.

You read correct. Sorry if I didn't seem clear.

 

[I Am Not Me]

@Theozilla: Nah, this is more like the love triangle discussion minus the snark and quote attacking.

I'll just be a fortune-teller here and say... there's a possibility of this happening sooner or later. Someone will come in and respond to stuff, quotes will happen, then another LTD discussion. Just like how it happens to other threads that aren't even about the LTD.

I shall talk about the Cloud and Zack relationship.

It's a legit relationship. I think their's is the sweetest in FF7, and it's not just because I'm a Clack. Zack takes real good care of Cloud in Crisis Core, it's almost like he treats him as the brother he never had. You never really see Zack as this caring to other males, not even with Angeal (though in Angeal's defense, he's the mentor so...).

Cloud was never really friendly with other males as well too, as it was hinted that he got into lots of fights as a kid back at his hometown, and yet he got along well with Zack from the start. In comparison to Cloud/Tifa and Cloud/Aerith, which both had not-so-awesome starts (former: too shy to talk to each other, latter: fell through roof, obligated by Turk chase), Cloud and Zack just simply TALK, and they're already laughing together.

I feel that before Tifa and Aerith, it was Zack who made Cloud really smile. He just seemed so happy together with Zack, no shyness and pretenses, just simple, happy friendship. It's great. 8D

And Zack takes good care of Cloud. He gives him advises, makes sure he gets along well with the others, protects him--he even sacrificed his life for Cloud. I don't even know what else to say to this. That in itself is just...

Aerith may bring out the best in Cloud. Tifa may be the girl that he liked since childhood and raises a family with. But Zack was the first to make him genuinely happy. :3

 

[aerbear]

I'm not completely against a Cloud/Tifa relationship; as long as Cloud's happy because I know then that Aerith would be happy too.

The way I see a Cloud/Tifa relationship is that it's because of the things Aerith taught Cloud while she was alive. Like, up until then, Cloud had never really seemed to care selflessly and completely about another person that way and Aerith's love helped bring out something in him that nothing else could, he needed that. Though they couldn't be together in life, Cloud still learned a lot from loving Aerith. I think Cloud has growing to do on his own and needs to stop being so hard on himself and then maybe he and Tifa really could get together, if he develops those feelings for her (or if you think he already has.) Basically, the first thing that has to happen is Cloud fixing himself, not him and Tifa. And then maybe... magic.

 

[Marle]

I'll just be a fortune-teller here and say... there's a possibility of this happening sooner or later. Someone will come in and respond to stuff, quotes will happen, then another LTD discussion. Just like how it happens to other threads that aren't even about the LTD.

I'd like it very much if this did not happen. Actually, it should be a rule that no quotes be allowed. D:

Maybe we can discuss certain quotes and what they can mean but really...that can be saved for the LTD. This should be strictly opinion/interpretation.

I think the mods can step in if it does take place since the rules are similar to that of the LTD?

Also; no bashing please! I really just want this thread to be more of a peaceful discussion place. You can talk about disliking a pairing and why but...as long as it stays mature; if you have to ask if it's mature, it probably isn't so don't say it?

I personally don't ship Barret/Tifa and think it's kind of weird to pair them up because Barret is definitely more like an older brother/father figure to her.

I LOVE CLACK. Cloud and Zack have an awesome bromance and I ship it. It makes a lot more sense than clephiroth...

Personally, I think Tifa is the one who needs to get away from Cloud for a bit. He's still technically got the mind of a teenager and she...well, she's been through so much and she's been so focused on the guy that I wish she'd have gone off and done some personal soul searching.

Obviously, I believe they are together but, like any other relationship, that they've got their issues to work through.

Then again, Zee mentioned something about the fact that they're rehashing problems we thought were solved in FF7. I think it's a valid point. But it's probably got more to do with shit storytelling than actual character development.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Then again, Zee mentioned something about the fact that they're rehashing problems we thought were solved in FF7. I think it's a valid point. But it's probably got more to do with shit storytelling than actual character development.

It's definitely bad storytelling, which is a problem Square Enix have had a rather substantial problem with lately It's certainly realistic for a couple to continue to have problems in their relationship, but it's not as realistic for the couple to continue to have the same exact problems, unless one of them has something severely wrong with them. I guess that could be said of Cloud, actually, but it's still lazy writing to keep rehashing the same problems even if it is realistic. Besides, the ending of FFVII seemed to suggest that Cloud was on the path to getting over his issues.

 

[Elisa Maza]

I think the headcanon thread covers the topic for this one, really...

I think Cloud and Tifa are a Friendship-romantic love couple, while Zack and Aerith are a just romantic love couple. Had Cloud and Aerith got together, they'd be just a romantic love couple, like Zack and Aeerith was.

Barret is a total slave to Marlene's whims. He can't say "no" to her.

Aerith viewed Tifa only as a rival, and she didn't feel any need to know her any further. Tifa, on the other hand, did. Tifa talked about Aerith with fondness, Aerith was too focused to Cloud to bother with anyone else for too long. Aerith and Tifa were not close and not just because of the LT. They weere too different to match.

Cloud angered Aerith more than once during the game, because he didn't react the way she wanted him to.

Cloud was not only inspired, but also jealous of Zack, too. He was everything Cloud wanted to be, but he couldn't. Cloud both liked and hated Zack, and it was only because of Zack's friendly disposition that they were friends.

Reeve loves and hates his comrades.

Vincent never saw Yuffie romantically. Nor that girl who got Lucrecia's memories (forgot name). He's stuck to the latter only because he sees her as a way to redemption.

Nanaki is the only one full of love for all of his comrades.

Barret and Tifa have a bond stronger than siblings, without any physical intimacy. They have a bromance both different and stronger than Cloud and Zack's.

Aerith was bitter and full of hate towards all life when she died. It was only time that put things into perspective and how pointless her own feelings were now that she was dead. .

Sephiroth doesn't hate humans. He simply thinks of them as ants. There is only one person he feels hate towards and that's Cloud.

 

[Guts]

What I think was clever about how Aeris and Tifa contrasted was how they had vastly polarized circumstances regarding a potential relationship with Cloud and both of them represented a different type of mate. Tifa was someone you could confide in and allow to protect you as much as you would protect her, Cloud's mother even recommended her indirectly by mentioning an older girl would work best.

Aeris was from a different world to them two entirely, was a paradigm of feminine grace and inhuman beauty.

A girl one would essentially have to work to attract, and even then you might feel isolated by the distance in personality that fuels your romance with them.

Those are the big two types of different relationships in reality too.

 

[Theozilla]

What I think was clever about how Aeris and Tifa contrasted was how they had vastly polarized circumstances regarding a potential relationship with Cloud and both of them represented a different type of mate. Tifa was someone you could confide in and allow to protect you as much as you would protect her, Cloud's mother even recommended her indirectly by mentioning an older girl would work best.

Aeris was from a different world to them two entirely, was a paradigm of feminine grace and inhuman beauty.

A girl one would essentially have to work to attract, and even then you might feel isolated by the distance in personality that fuels your romance with them.

Those are the big two types of different relationship in reality too.

Well Tifa is actually year younger than Cloud, while Aerith is a year older than Cloud (of course mentally Cloud is like 4-6 younger than either of them, due being in stasis so long).

 

[Guts]

Really? Surprised. I thought it would've been an allusion to Tifa given her motherly personality. That's a strange choice, making her younger. I see.

 

[Theozilla]

Really? Surprised. I thought it would've been an allusion to Tifa given her motherly personality. That's a strange choice, making her younger. I see.

Yup, during FFVII Tifa was 20, Cloud was 21, Aerith was 22, and Zack (at his death, which is essentially the beginning of FFVII) was 23.

 

[Celes Chere]

I believe Cloud x Tifa and Zack x Aerith is canon. Before Crisis Core came out and I had only played FFVII I thought yeah, there are many things up for interpretation. I think Cloti is most likely the main pair, but it could go either way. Then when everything else was released and they even bothered to make a story revolving around Zack (who was in love with Aerith), I was completely sold. I know the quotes sometimes contradict one another, but with Zack and Aerith being described as lovers, destiny, and inseparable there's no changing my mind. Even without the quotes I thought their romance was touching, and the fact that Aerith wears pink four years later and still wears Zacks ribbon (both things he asked her to) shows that she still cares deeply for him. I also find it interesting that Aerith refused to sell flowers in a wagon again because she wanted Zack only to come back and fix it.
Cloud Tifa... was one of my first VG OTPs, lol. I've always like the child hood friend cliche between couples, and they have it. Cloud was so sweet and awkward withthe way he acted as a kid, and Tifa's always been a nice girl. I like that they are similar personality types as well. Both are insecure, need someone they can depend on, need to be taken care of (to some degree), and are both 'fighters'. I like how they both go out of their way to impress one another. xD Cloud thanking everyone and then saying "Especially you, Tifa" really impacted my view. The Lifestream scene where we see Cloud's mind revolve around her and how happy he was to know that she cared in the past made my liking for the pairing grow even more. Finally, before the LS scene Tifa says "Nothing else matters now. Just Cloud"
Her love and devotion to him are just amazing. She's never loved another guy her whole life so far, or even hinted at it. I feel the same is true for Cloud, and of course that's wherethe disagreements take place. xD I like that Cloud and Tifa are NOT a perfect couple.c They've gotten in fights, had their disagreements and they worked through them and grew stronger because of it. More and more in the compilation I see that Cloud and Tifa just grew closer. What I love about Tifa is that she's selfless, pushes Cloud in the right ways, and we see Cloud return that affection. I mean he tells her he wants to start a new life with her for crying out loud,lol. Andwell, yeah that's some of the reasons why I think those two pairings just work so well.

Aerith viewed Tifa only as a rival

I know this isn't a debate thread, but I just wanted to share my own view about this. I think that Aerith and Tifa clicked right away. They laughed together, bonded, despite taking intererst in the same man, they were great friends to one another. I believe Aerith viewed Tifa as a good friend. One of the things I like about maiden is she smiles down on Tifa, and feels Tifa is good for being with Cloud in the land of the living. Aerith is just an all around cheerful, sweet, and caring character who is also selfless. She's been through a lot in her life, too. Lost her real parents, found out she was part Cetra, had ShinRa monitoring her ever since she was little, sensing other people's deaths, hearing voices, losing her first love... and through it all she tries toremain the happiest.I like how she isn't a character that's afraid to go after her own happiness. That doesn't mean she doesn't care, it just means she's very emotionally strong. She also wants the best for the people close to her,especially in my opinion, Cloud and Tifa. Tifa knew Aerith well enough to make the statement about Aerith not wanting to die,and that Aerith wanted to live more than anything. No one else knew that but Tifa.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Cloud was not only inspired, but also jealous of Zack, too. He was everything Cloud wanted to be, but he couldn't. Cloud both liked and hated Zack, and it was only because of Zack's friendly disposition that they were friends.

I never saw any instance in the compilation that ever indicated this. If there was, care to point it out to me? I might have missed it.

I'm not asking for a quote, btw. O_o I just want to know what part in the compilation made it come across as Cloud hating Zack even a little bit.

Cloud's mother even recommended her indirectly by mentioning an older girl would work best.

I actually thought the mother was referring to both girls. XD

Aerith = older woman
Tifa = who'll take care of Cloud

Or maybe she was referring to herself.

 

[Theozilla]

I actually thought the mother was referring to both girls. XD

Aerith = older woman
Tifa = who'll take care of Cloud

Or maybe she was referring to herself.

Or perhaps Zack, he did have to drag around and take care of a semi-comatose Cloud for nearly a year, imagine how much work that was.

 

[Elisa Maza]

@Mei. Oh, there IS no quote. This is what I got when I saw Zack encouraging Cloud "you wanna in SOLDIER? Hang in there, man!' (to paraphrase) and this was from Cloud's POV, I thought there was longing as he saw Zack leaving and jealousy as in "Easy for you to say, I failed at it!" Like I said, Zack was everything Cloud wanted to be and couldn't be (hense why he copied him later). There HAD to be some negative emotions going there inside Cloud. Not that they grew. Rather than hating Zack, I'd say Cloud hated their whole situation as "I strive (no pun intended) to be like you, man but I always fail " Not that this ever put a hindrance to their bond: Zack was open and likable, so this never grew to damage anything between them. Because Zack is THAT good \fangirl.

Ah, something I forgot: I always thought that Tifa's guilt came first and her love second when she stayed with comatose!Cloud. Not that her love for him was not a reason, but I saw her staying behind and abandoning the team in a dire situation made me think that she was briven by her guilt not to tell him the truth and support him better. After all, she herself, moments before she found him, was musing, thinking and regreting how "if [she] were more open, more daring" and faced the situation instead of hiding her head in the ground, things wouldn't go so South.

Cloud, on the other hand, never blamed her for anything, even though he told her that he counted on her and she let him fall.

This is why Tifa forgave Cloud easily when he disappeared in ACC. Both he and she had the mindset of ""I will hide things believing it is the best rout because I'm insecure in how to deal with it". She did the same midtake, learned from it and so she managed to guide Cloud through it, so he could see that the right path is facing things, not hiding them.

And this is why I love them so much: they are flawed individuals with a flawed relationship. And they teach each other things that are painful, uncomfortable but necessary in order to become better people.

P. S. TYPING WITH THIS FUCKING PHONE SUCKS!!!

 

[Vendel]

The way I see a Cloud/Tifa relationship is that it's because of the things Aerith taught Cloud while she was alive. Like, up until then, Cloud had never really seemed to care selflessly and completely about another person that way and Aerith's love helped bring out something in him that nothing else could, he needed that. Though they couldn't be together in life, Cloud still learned a lot from loving Aerith. I think Cloud has growing to do on his own and needs to stop being so hard on himself and then maybe he and Tifa really could get together, if he develops those feelings for her (or if you think he already has.) Basically, the first thing that has to happen is Cloud fixing himself, not him and Tifa. And then maybe... magic.

What exactly did Aerith teach Cloud and when did this happen? For the entire time he knows her he is a fractured personality under the sway of Sephiroth. Hell half of their conversations in the game come back to Zack somehow.

And Cloud's need to keep promises to protect someone comes from his feelings for Tifa. Aerith didn't teach him that.


Well now that I think about it, she did teach him she could take a punch in the TotA.

 

[Master Bates]

I actually thought the mother was referring to both girls. XD

Aerith = older woman
Tifa = who'll take care of Cloud

Or maybe she was referring to herself.

Funny because I always thought that line by Cloud's momma was a "red herring" and sort of a "foreshadowing" of Cloud's true identity. IIRC, that flashback was seen when Cloud was in Aerith's house right after you meet her (and we know she's a year older than him), to which Cloud answered with his famous catchphrase, "not interested".

I always thought it was a way for the game to lead the players into thinking that Cloud will eventually end up with Aerith (boy meets girl cliche and all), and then BAM! Aerith's dead! And another BAM! to the head as we get the Lifestream event and it's revealed why he was "not interested", and that's because of a his sexy next door neighbor who, as the players have seen back at the Mideel clinic (before the LS event), "cared" for him when he was comatose. Then it came full circle.

I thought that was pretty good actually.

Side note: I personally like this thread more than the LTD one. Keep those posts coming. Will probably post my sentiments when I feel like it.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

my feelings on ltd:
cloud loved aerith and wanted to get to know her better, just like she said she wanted to get to know the 'real cloud'. of course, cloud is trapped in a pocket dimension where he runs around singing 'LALALALALA MISS SAIGON LALALALALALALA' by which i mean his brain is so messed up that it is more or less chocobo poop by the time he starts to be attracted to aerith. i maintain he is a very confused gent as of disc one, but at the same time you don't have to be entirely there to fall for a beautiful lady who's interested in you and makes you feel like less of a puppet douchebag. aerith genuinely loved cloud as i have explained over a million times on this forum already from the 'things aerith is not' thread, etc.

NOW we move onto cloud and tifa, whom he also loves. he feels bad for her at tnc and genuinely believed what sephiroth said about him, and he also didn't want her to get hurt like aerith recently had been. eventually he falls into the planets core of hot lifestream and becomes encased in carbonite oh wait no thats a different thing anyways so eventually he gets mako poisoning because mako's a real douche like that and he ends up under tifas care whereupon in the lifestream he realizes all his past feelings for her bluh bluh cloti and junk

doesnt mean their relationship isn't complicated, but i think any relationship with cloud would be complicated (as indicated by one of the creators saying it MAY have gone well with aerith but there's still a huge burden there. i think cloud at least will always have a huge burden) also i was gonna write this story called case of aerith that mirrored case of tifa but was a 'what if aerith lived' sort of think which is basically a rehashing showcasing cloud and his bs.

so yeah

 

[Madame Mayor]

I think Tserith is the best romance out of all of them.

There's just so much potential with the little bits SE has given us. It was a real treat to get Crisis Core and find out that they wanted to expand on that idea. I think their relationship is tragic and wonderful because of how he felt he wasn't worthy of her (something from case of) and she cared about him no matter who he worked for or how many helicopters he slapped her in. XP

Clack is also just really awesome. I don't believe Cloud and Zack felt romantically for each other, but their bond was just so strong and special I think it was just as important to both of them as their relationships to Tifa and Aerith were. I totally ship it though and from a non-canon perspective think they are awesome for each other and adorable.

Canon-wise for Cloti/Clerith/Zerith, everything has always pointed to Cloti/Zerith for me. I never saw anything on Cloud's end romantically towards Aerith, and there's too much especially from Crisis Core that tells me Aerith's feelings for Cloud were really complicated by her not being over Zack and how she never gets to meet the real him.

 

[Dana Scully]

this thread is genius

To get the LTD stuff out of the way first, I think Cloud loved both Aerith and Tifa, but he never had time to really get romantic with Aerith before she died and he's now very happy with Tifa makin babies and shit. Oh and Zack/Aerith is just beautiful <3

Also, Marlene is the true ruler of the Cloti household. You don't grow up in the slums and work a bar at the age of 4 without learning how to manipulate people with your cuteness.

I'm going to second Brooke and say that Tserith is glorious and one of my favourite ships. I also love the thought of Tifa/Reno because the issues they would have to work through are ridiculous and you know the sex would be awesome.

Tifa and Aerith had an awesome bromance bordering on lesbians. Yuffie eventually became like a little sister to them (no lesbian there) and her and Tifa regularly touch base and gossip about things.

Scarlet and Heidegger also had a bromance that was a mixture of hatred for each other and love for their mutual enjoyment with blowing things up.

YuffiexVincent is and will forever be my OTP. They started off with very low opinions of each other but through forced contact (aka Yuffie constantly bothering the shit out of Vincent) they very slowly became awesome friends and then around/after DoC is when the romance kicks in.

Though not always, sometimes I like to ship Tifa/Barret because seriously, at the beginning of the game it's like they're married and they could be so good together (and because I read this one really awesome KH/FF7 fic where they got together and adfjlajdf it was fantastic).

Vincent and Cid are both very, very straight. The Valenwind ship makes zero sense to me, though I do think they have a sweet bromance going.

Nanaki is still not quite as mature as he wants everyone to think, and sometimes this slips out to the great amusement of his friends.

Godo and Yuffie's relationship is strained on a good day, though they still care a lot for each other. Godo really does want Yuffie to succeed in life, which often causes him to meddle in things that aren't his business, much to her annoyance.

Reeve and Yuffie will get up to terrible, terrible scheming when left alone without adult supervision.

Hojo was a total player with the Shinra-employed ladies. How he managed this is a completely mystery.