FFT Ending (spoilers, obviously)

[Ite]

What the hell people! I just finished Final Fantasy Tactics, ready to call it my favourite game of all time...

But that probably had the least satisfying ending I've ever seen. That game was way too good to have such a weak ending. Some fortune cookie wisdom and a short FMV of Ramza riding off into the sunset?

The ending to FF1 for the NES was longer than that. And had a more balanced plot/finale than FFT.

What happened to Agrias, Mustadio, Malak, Orlandu, Worker 8, Reis, Beowulf, Cloud, and all of your other party members? Are we really supposed to accept that they were all incinerated on their way out of Murond?

And regarding secret/dead characters: it wouldn't have been that hard to have an optional short scene programmed for each main character -- they did it in FF6 five years earlier. I don't care about long load times, FF9 had insane load times but maybe the best ending of the series so far.

It feels like there were so many loose ends...

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The ending is less about the individual characters on you team and more about the various characters Ramza encounters, the conspiracy of the Church, and Delita's climb to the top.

The story pretty much ties everything up as it goes along. There really aren't any loose ends left. What happened to Ramza and Alma I guess seems to be under interpretation, but it's irrelevant from a historical standpoint, which the game seems to be all about.

 

[Sigbru]

There's a post-credit scene with Delita, in case you missed that

The ending leaves ambiguous if the characters lived or died at the end. I think people are still discussing about it

In the PSP version I think they add abit of the scenes for some characters, but not much. The guest characters being shoved aside after they join is really annoying

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah, the whole point is that what the heroes accomplished was forgotten covered up by history. If they did live, they would have had to go into hiding as they probably would been hunted down.

Honestly, it certainly seems to me they all died. I really hope not, and I like to think Ramza and Alma at the end are the real thing...but I'm not really sure how they could have lived.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

RPG magic, I guess. I figured it could go either way, honestly because the metaphysics of FFT's setting are so vague that I really can't think of an argument of why they couldn't.

 

[ForceStealer]

I know...but Tactics really didn't have a whole lot of fantastical craziness as far as death was concerned (with the possible exception of how many times you beat the shit out of Wiegraf). A lot of people freakin died.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I guess that's the beauty of ambiguity.

WHO FRIGGIN' KNOWS

 

[Sigbru]

I guess they just teleported. Worked for all most bosses

 

[Makoeyes987]

War of the Lions.

Play it. Be satisfied.

 

[Ryushikaze]

They lived. Also, agreed with Mako.
I need to play more of WoL, damnit.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I know...but Tactics really didn't have a whole lot of fantastical craziness as far as death was concerned (with the possible exception of how many times you beat the shit out of Wiegraf). A lot of people freakin died.

Malak was revived by the Scorpio Zodiac Stone, though, so Tactics does have a bit of fantastical craziness there with death.

As well, the Lucavi had teleportation abilities, so -- given that Ramza and his team still had 12 of the 13 Zodiac Stones when Altima detonated -- it's not hard to imagine that the stones may have reacted to the "Oh shit" feeling everybody on that airship must have felt at the moment of Altima's death, and teleported them out of Murond.

Like Mog said, there's really no reason to believe they couldn't have survived given what we know of the metaphysics.

For that matter, I've never understood this debate about the ending in the first place. It's one thing to assume that Orlan could have been imagining what is obviously Ramza and Alma's sprites, but it's quite another to assume that we are all having a collective hallucination as we watch the two of them stroll through the wilderness, water their chocobos, and ride off into the sunset.

War of the Lions.

Play it. Be satisfied.

I don't remember anything featuring the other characters in the ending to War of the Lions. Someone clarify what Mako means, please?

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah I don't remember that either, I was just thanking the sentiment as War of the Lions is THE standard on how to port/rerelease a game.

That's true about the stones, I had forgotten about that. I remember being surprised that they didn't do more throughout the game, given how many Ramza had. As for the ending, yeah, and I have frankly always told myself they lived, but I was willing to chalk that up to denial. It wouldn't be the first time in media we see a character at peace after they have died. Gladiator is the first example that's coming to mind, though I know that makes it more obvious that he's dead. And FF7 ends with Aeris' face and all.

But yeah, I'd be more than happy to accept that they lived Its already a sad enough ending given how Ramza gets literally zero credit for all he's done. (and I know he wouldn't want any, but its still sad)

 

[Sigbru]

Well SOMEONE must have lived. How would Olan Orran know so many details of what happened otherwise?

 

[Ite]

Would it have been so hard to have a brief scene where Ramza is being blasted along, but he pulls out a Zodiac stone and gets consumed by the light?

I don't know, I put so much goddamn time into that game. I know the journey is the worthier part, but man. FFVI's ending ruled.

Also, why are we having two discussions about this?

 

[ForceStealer]

Honestly its not any clearer than FF7's ending was with regard to to the welfare of the characters.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Also, why are we having two discussions about this?

The other is more about the Lucavi and how they were going to leave Murond, but it's definitely a related topic.

Honestly its not any clearer than FF7's ending was with regard to to the welfare of the characters.

I'd say it's not any less unclear. I always thought VII's ending left the impression that everyone survived -- and I don't mean the laughter of children after the credits either.

Unless Nanaki suddenly gained the ability to pilot an otherwise unmanned Highwind, everybody was probably okay.

 

[Ite]

FFVII's ending was completely different. The survival of the human characters was a huge part of the story's final act. The moment that they put the welfare of the Planet before humanity's survival is the emotional climax of the story. What happens to them when Holy does its thing is deliciously ambiguous and incites philisophical analysis. I have no beef with the ending of FFVII.

Tactics had a different story, one that involved the prevention of Ajora's return so that there would be peace in the land. I expected peace at the end. And there was, kind of, but I didn't get to see it. And everyone except Ramza and Alma died, so I pretty much don't care about the peaceful land anymore.

 

[Sigbru]

Tactics had a different story, one that involved the prevention of Ajora's return so that there would be peace in the land. I expected peace at the end. And there was, kind of, but I didn't get to see it. And everyone except Ramza and Alma died, so I pretty much don't care about the peaceful land anymore.

I think FFT tried to tell us that true self-sacrificing heroes don't always get all the fame, glory and happily ever after that many strive for. Ramza and the party did what they did just because it was the right thing to do

 

[Dana Scully]

I think FFT tried to tell us that true self-sacrificing heroes don't always get all the fame, glory and happily ever after that many strive for. Ramza and the party did what they did just because it was the right thing to do

^ QFT

This was the reason that I loved FFT so much - because the heroes don't get any credit, and it sucks and it's totally unfair and yet it so accurately reflects what often happens in real life.

Like Sigbru said, there was no glory in FFT, no riches or fame; there was just a protagonist who was determined to do what was right rather than what was easy (I can hear Dumbledore saying we all must choose between what is right and what is easy in my head as I type this XD). It's what makes Ramza such a true hero.

Edit: And since when is everyone besides Ramza and Alma definitely dead? Unless my memory's totally gone to shit, the fate of the other characters was left totally ambiguous.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Edit: And since when is everyone besides Ramza and Alma definitely dead? Unless my memory's totally gone to shit, the fate of the other characters was left totally ambiguous.

Agreed. If anything, the notion that Alma and Ramza survived lends itself to the idea that the others survived too.

 

[Kai Schulen]

Agreed. If anything, the notion that Alma and Ramza survived lends itself to the idea that the others survived too.

Well, in War of the Lions there's an extra scene where Agrias gives Ovelia her knife to protect herself and promises to come back to her side when she and Ramza are done putting an end to the Lucavi's plot all the while declaring her love for Ovelia also lends itself to the idea that Agrias may have been killed while fighting Ultima especially since Ovelia uses the very same knife to stab Delita.

Though the lack of other characters in the ending could also mean that everybody else has gone into hiding/live out the rest of their life in obscurity and that Agrias could've of done the same as they did, but Agrias gave her word that she'd come back to Ovelia when all the fighting was over and Agrias is not the type to go back on her word. But then again, we're not really certain on how much time has passed between Ultima's defeat and Ovelia stabbing Delita, so...


You know what, I'm pretty ambivalent towards whether or not everyone survives -- I'd like to think so, but in the case of everyone dying adds a sense of realism and I like that too. Also, I'm not sure if I should spoiler tag the extra scenes in WotL or not.

 

[Ite]

All fair points. To which I have no real rebut.

 

[Roger]

You know that everyone save Ramza and Alma are optional party members right? You decline everyone's request to join your party. They didn't show them for the same reason they didn't show Vincent and Yuffie.