FFVII and canon article updated

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#1
With the remake announced and more people than usual likely to be coming through, I thought this article needed to become current.

I've added mention of more titles with FFVII characters and their place (or lack thereof) in canon, as well as added a couple of overdue editorial notations.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#2
i was looking at that image trying to work out what that order was meant to represent, like chronological or order of release because it wasn't making sense and then i realised it was a fucking question mark

/productive input
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#4
With the remake announced and more people than usual likely to be coming through, I thought this article needed to become current.

I've added mention of more titles with FFVII characters and their place (or lack thereof) in canon, as well as added a couple of overdue editorial notations.
Well, certainly the Star Wars/George Lucas section needs updating. The franchise has been taken out of Lucas' hands and the EU is absolutely not canon.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#5
That was one of the notes I added. :monster:

I may update that section further at a later date, but for the moment, it's enough that it makes note of where things stand. The "Star Wars" franchise is too perfect an example to not continue using it.
 

aszach01

Pro Adventurer
#7
Wow!!Tactics, FFX & X-2 and Dissidia are canon???Square really needs to have an in depth explanation about this to make this claim legit.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#8
i still don't think tactics or dissidia are really applicable to the story of ffvii (as in you can say 'in ffvii, this is where cloud went to ivalice and here is where cloud, tifa and sephiroth went to dissidia-land') \|  ̄ヘ ̄|/

/subborn opinions
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
#13
We should probably work out inconsistencies within the compilation itself before we get into the canonicity of the link between FF7 and FFX, Tactics and Dissidia.
 
#14
Square don't care about inconsistencies. I find myself caring less and less. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's bad to care or that I won't be the first to devour and memories the articles on the revised timeline - and I know we've had this discussion before about consistency and continuity being cultural things, but I wonder if the Japanese fandom cares as much about potholes and inconsistencies as we do, or whether it's completely different things that get them exercised. I'm just curious, really.
 

Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#16
i still don't think tactics or dissidia are really applicable to the story of ffvii (as in you can say 'in ffvii, this is where cloud went to ivalice and here is where cloud, tifa and sephiroth went to dissidia-land') \|  ̄ヘ ̄|/
I actually agree and don't see where Dissidia or Tactics are part of the FFVII canon even if the reverse is true. :huh:
 

hleV

Pro Adventurer
#18
Agreed with people who discount Dissidia (never played Tactics) from canon. I think it's clear that they were not made with any continuity in mind, even if they don't outright contradict anything. Seem like mere crossovers to me.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
#19
Crossovers aren't really meant to be canon so much as an opportunity to see characters that would otherwise never meet fight or interact with each-other. No matter how much they try to justify how the characters could've come from their main series canon, it's best to just treat them as their own separate continuity.
 

JechtShotMK9

The Sublimely Magnificent One
AKA
Kamiccolo9
#20
I don't see why it's "best." I mean, if it fits, I'm gonna go along with it. No reason not to.

And with all the crazy stuff going on with Dissidia, with half of the villains being crazy reality warpers, with crystals that have vaguely defined powers, a vague ending, divine intervention, and with clear evidence of a multiverse even outside of the main games, it doesn't seem especially hard to work with.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#21
i still don't think tactics or dissidia are really applicable to the story of ffvii (as in you can say 'in ffvii, this is where cloud went to ivalice and here is where cloud, tifa and sephiroth went to dissidia-land') \|  ̄ヘ ̄|/
I actually agree and don't see where Dissidia or Tactics are part of the FFVII canon even if the reverse is true. :huh:
That's an interesting way of phrasing it. Not sure that I agree with it (I'm pretty sure I don't, actually), but it's a perspective I've not considered.

Tactics has a stronger argument than Dissidia. His time in Ivalice could be nothing more than a fever dream for him :monster:
I think either can fit just as easily in terms of timeline, but I wanted to respond to this mainly because I think it's an ironic observation that -- from a strictly in-universe perspective -- folks see room for the Tactics appearance faster while Dissidia is the one with more meta commentary confirming that it really happened.
 

JechtShotMK9

The Sublimely Magnificent One
AKA
Kamiccolo9
#22
The way Dissidia is set up, Cid/Shinryu could have snatched Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth out of any point in their respective timelines, there would be no issues with memories due to the rules of the cycle, and they could have been returned to the exact moment they left at the end of the conflict with no memory of it. There's really no contradiction here.

I'm not sure about Tactics, since I haven't played it, but isn't Cloud in his crazy delusional phase then? I seem to recall the prevailing theory being that Cloud's appearance in Tactics occurs while he's floating in the Lifestream. I can't really speak as to the likelihood of that, though.
 
#24
But with the way Dissidia references things, it kind of implies that everything happens AFTER the characters' respective games. And that gets especially strange with FF7 given that it's had sequels and shit.

Whereas with Tactics, I'm saying that either it could have easily happened from Ivalice's perspective and Cloud would never remember it separate from whatever other crazy visions he was having. Or from Cloud's perspective and you could argue that literally all of FFTactics was his imaginations, if you were so inclined.

Dissidia's amnesia thing makes it easy to say everyone could have been anywhere, anytime, for everyone. Tactics just seems more gracefully done :monster:
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
#25
The problem with Tactics is that Cloud seems to have washed up in Mideel roughly a day after falling into the Lifestream and got mako poisoning out of it. I haven't played tactics but I don't recall him being shown in the state he was in at the whirlwind maze from what I know of his role in the game.

For Dissidia, fighting games make up some multiverse or timeline encompassing excuse plots all the time to justify themselves, even though they can't really affect events happening outside of them, for all the references they may want to make. I'm willing to allow the whole multiverse thing for Dissidia in relation to the other FF games but each FF game is its own separate continuity happening in its own universe where it has its own set of metaphysics even if a few things are present in more than one. As such, Dissidia is pretty far removed from all but FF1's continuity. Another issue is that even with the whole amnesia on arrival thing, it seems they'd remember what happened as they leave. It's been a while but I'm pretty sure some late game stuff gets referenced for most if not all the games and they all look like they do in their games, they'd have to have been taken from around then. How exactly would you excuse everyone having their time in Dissidia right after their games, in some cases redo character arcs they've already been through and then remember their time there when they get back to where they're supposed to be, yet not bring it up?
 
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