That thing is such an atrocious violation of everything canon it simply can't exist in the same continuity as FFX. I could've sworn it was considered non-canon the same way as the Zelda CDI games. Do you really want to tie that kind of thing to FFVII? There's no reason to acknowledge such blatant contradictions as canon over FX.
You're putting me in the very disgusting position of feeling like I'm about to defend FFX -Will- in some way.
Where are the contradictions? There aren't any.
And you're demonstrating that you still don't get what canon is when you ask me if I want that travesty attached. Obviously not. But what I want, what you want, what all of us want means nothing.
Starling said:
I was pointing out a double standard. To argue this and then what you said in the AC/CC Buster Sword thread is what I'd call hypocrisy, especially having read my most recent post. Either both are valid or neither. Otherwise you're trying to have it both ways. They're not different, even if you think they are.
Sorry (I'm not sorry), they're extremely different.
One is you saying "This thing happened in the fictional setting the same way it did in reality. Because that's how it happens in reality."
The other is me saying "This shouldn't be an imposition on your suspension of disbelief, as it's a thing you've witnessed in reality anyway."
So, what's going on here?:
A) I've said you shouldn't have any trouble believing something you see in a game, as it's something you have already seen in reality
B) What you said (that you're now trying to equate to what I said) is that something that happened in a game has to happen the same way it does in reality
THESE STATEMENTS ARE NOT REMOTELY SIMILAR.
You know what would be the same? Suggesting that Cloud having identity issues is stretching your suspension of disbelief.
Now, because I expect you're going to make me do this later if I don't do it now, let me elaborate:
A planet's spirit energy is comparable to the elemental building blocks in our universe. It's "what allows planets to be planets." We're told this.
Well, in reality we have seen that the building blocks of planets can manifest in different ways on different planets. So it's no stretch of suspension of disbelief to see what has been identified as the fundamental building blocks of planets within a fiction manifesting in different ways on different planets.
It's something you've seen. It's something you know happens. There's no twisting of suspension of disbelief required. Not every planet is the same. The end.
The analogy is the same with Cloud's identity issues. You know of that sort of stuff happening to people in reality. It may not involve magic and aliens in reality, but it's a thing that happens in reality -- so you should have no trouble believing that it happens in this fiction, which happens to include magic and aliens.
Let that be the end of this. If you respond to this point, do not continue this "hypocrisy"/"double standard" thing. It's demonstrably not true and you know it at this point if you didn't before.
What I would have had to do for this to be a double standard is to say "Of course things can be different on Spira from on FFVII's world and them still exist in the same universe. Hydrgoen, helium, etc. blah, blah, blah -- and
those elements from reality are manifesting differently on Spira, so that's why things are different."
Did I do that? Did I force the mechanics of the real world into the fiction? Am I arguing that the fiction must conform to the mechanics of the real world? Am I insisting -- nay,
demanding -- that real-world elements be responsible for any differences between Spira and FFVII's world, then insisting there's a contradiction at work if someone says "spirit energy"?
No, I'm not. I'm not doing any of that.
So, again, do not let your next post be a further accusation about this hypocrisy/double standard crap.
I'm not going down a similar road to that "you didn't quote your source" thing with you again.
Starling said:
That doesn't look much like a confirmation so much as a maybe. I'm pretty sure no one in FF7 gets to choose when they reincarnate. They just fade into the Lifestream and then who knows when what used to be them gets used for new life, materia etc.
No one has said anything of the sort happens on Spira.
Starling said:
I thought there was only one unimaginably terrible FF10 spinoff that's so bad it's probably not even canon.
"So bad it's not canon"? Seriously,
do you know that's not how canon works?
Starling said:
Seriously, that stuff has to be some trolling otherwise. FF10 seems to keep dying as a consistent requirement for making a summon, whether it's the fayth or the final aeon. The whole sex = summon without dying is inconsistent, especially when final aeons cost the summoner's life as well. There's no consistency to that.
It's previously unknown information, like some SOLDIERs not having blue-green eyes. We didn't call inconsistency on the different (pun incoming) consistencies of milk and water when we were kids and found out that not all fluids are the same, did we?
Starling said:
The Cetra had that water projector though, so there's that.
You mean the
magical projector that works by sticking (what looks like) a tree branch in a hole in the ground to lower a stone pillar, releasing a flow of water that runs across a dead-looking tree sticking out of a stone platform?
That technology? Not mechanical gadgets and circuitry and big metal birds like the Shera?
Starling said:
The Twilight Mexican said:
Starling said:
Really, the whole idea of finding an airship buried in the ground and actually being able to use it is ridiculous, let alone technology from some never before mentioned lost civilization is suddenly found right in the middle of everyone trying to pick themselves up in the wake of FF7's ending. Even if Cid had to dig the damn thing up only the very basics of it should still be salvageable, the rest getting heavily overhauled with FF7's technology to be functional, defeating the whole point of it being lost technology from long ago.
This is Final Fantasy. Finding a long-abandoned/buried/submerged airship that still works is a common trope.
Doesn't mean it needs to apply here.
What it means is you don't have a leg to stand on implying that it's out of place.
Starling said:
Similar to the Highwind as well, making it Cid's design preference rather than pre-existing layout.
It looks nothing like the Highwind's interior.
Starling said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the engine was the only part they salvaged.
I would since
this motherfucker in the engine room says
“While this airship is named after Cid’s wife, construction of the vessel wasn’t performed by the captain at all.
Our team of loyal scientists here at the World Regenesis Organization or those criminals at Shinra weren’t involved, either.
To tell you the truth, the ship is not even from this era. It is a relic from a lost civilization.
Most of the machinery in the engine room is boxed up in black casing, so we don’t even know what half of it does.
There’s no need to worry. Even though we cannot reproduce the technology, we can still put it to good use.
I can almost guarantee there will be no problems.
Almost…”
Starling said:
FFIV's Lunarians have traits/abilities that set them apart from humans, such as their light skin tone and hair, innate affinity for magic, apparent weakness to meteor and their longer lifespans. Since humans only differ from Cetra in having lost the ability to communicate with the planet as well as direct the Lifestream and seem to retain the potential to regain that ability, Lunarians and Espers aren't really applicable. Remember that I'm talking about the inhabitants of two different planets existing in the same universe being pretty much the same. Even when mixing two species that shouldn't be compatible, fiction tends to at the very least stick to the inheritance of traits from both sides, which make the individual's status as a hybrid pretty obvious.
Your claim was that it's a tough pill to swallow for two planets in the same (fictional) universe to have similarly human lifeforms. It was an absurd claim, as any geek could tell you.
It was also absurd because here is where the double standard in this discussion is taking place. You insist that lifeforms on different planets shouldn't be the same even while insisting that the planets themselves should be.
It's almost like you're grasping at straws to attempt undermining an idea you just personally dislike.
For the record, by the way, there's large differences in human lifeforms even on Spira. Ronso, Guado, Hypello, the Musicians, Peruperu, Yevonites, Al Bhed (these last two bear listing separately, as they do have physiological differences).
While on the topic of the Cetra and humans, by the way, the Guado are extremely similar to them. Living close to the Farplane has made them more attuned to the planet (they know when the Farplane is becoming unstable, for instance), they can detect the unsent, and they can control pyreflies (i.e. free floating spirit energy).
Starling said:
I think there should be a distinction between powering a device that does something and being able to do it on their own. I believe he showed up through an interdimensional device that made him just show up from wherever and we're supposed to assume he was returned the same way. What do we know about that device's capabilities? As for what can and can't be expected from the Zodiac stones on their own, it'd be best to simply stick to the list of things they've been established to be capable of doing rather than just tack new ones on top of what's already there.
Almost everything they do is done on their own, including reviving a dead person and teleporting people.
Starling said:
Honestly, I don't see why anything that references FF7 as an easter egg or just for fun automatically has to be canon.
Who has said it has to be? The article this thread is about kind of says precisely the opposite of that.
All that's happened here is that the things that fit without conflict or have explanations provided have been identified.
Starling said:
Nintendo let Hyrule Warriors, a game celebrating and referencing content from all over the Legend of Zelda franchise with dimensional travel and such happen but don't consider it canon. Likewise, just because Tactics felt like having a Cloud cameo and Dissidia exists as an anniversary celebration of FF in the form of a fighting game doesn't mean they're canon either. You can toy around with how it could happen but it simply isn't and it's best that they aren't.
Let's not push this any further, folks! Someone with the authority to overrule Ultimanias and what developers have said in interviews is here to set the record straight!