SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 12 Spoiler Discussion
- Thread starter Lex
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rkss
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Me
Timing of this Consequential choice is really really weird. I wonder if we decide to keep Biggs alive or let him die here:
Or it's just for side quest
Or it's just for side quest
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Theozilla
Kaiju Member
I really never expected for Cait Sith of all characters, to have a cameo appearance, especially in this part of the Remake. And doing a Charles Heston “god damn you all” impression to boot.
I guess Reeve wasn’t just satisfied with despairing in his office, he needed to despair through his fursona too.
I guess Reeve wasn’t just satisfied with despairing in his office, he needed to despair through his fursona too.
Pizzachu
SOLDIER Fan
This made me laugh hard. Thank you, Theozilla.
pollenainne
Pro Adventurer
lol!
Although it was probably his way of observing outside as he could not be there himself, and as he despaired, the stuff toy did too? I actually loved the cameo, although might be a "wtf" moment to new players. lol
Although it was probably his way of observing outside as he could not be there himself, and as he despaired, the stuff toy did too? I actually loved the cameo, although might be a "wtf" moment to new players. lol
- AKA
- Tets
Alright, so. This was intense. Loved the fact that we got to play as Aerith, seeing all the chaos on the ground and people trying to flee and all that. The scene with Marlene...when she started crying I teared up a little too =(
So, the big moment. The plate drop.
Not gonna lie, the presentation of this scene was a lot worse than the original. I'd almost go so far as to say they messed it up. In the original, when the plate falls the music goes silent and all you hear is the plate crashing down and the echoing cries of the people of the slums...it's haunting. And then President Shinra, just chilling in his office. Far up and away from everything, where the thundering crash of the plate is but a mere muffled thud. Barely audible over the classical music he's playing.
The graphics may be outdated but the way the scene is presented? The cinematography and direction? Holds. Up.
Here...they kept playing that battle theme over the entire scene. Remember the PC version music bug that messed up the music fadeouts* and kept playing the bgm throughout the entire scene when it shouldn't have? Well here it's a feature. All that dramatic destruction, undercut by ROCKIN' GUITARS, YO. Come on!
And then to top it all of, frickin Cait Sith? This is where you place that early bird cameo? Doing, as Theozilla said, a Charlton Heston impression? That was just too silly for me. For newbies this is gonna be quite the wtf moment lol
So far I enjoyed the presentation of the remake but this scene seems like a misstep to me. And it's really just simple edits that would improve it. Take out the music, remove that Cait Sith nonsense. Done.
Alright, rant over for now.
*carried over into the PS4 version too unfortunately although at least they recently fixed this particular scene even though the bug persists in other scenes still
P.S. RIP Wedge and the cats =<
So, the big moment. The plate drop.
Not gonna lie, the presentation of this scene was a lot worse than the original. I'd almost go so far as to say they messed it up. In the original, when the plate falls the music goes silent and all you hear is the plate crashing down and the echoing cries of the people of the slums...it's haunting. And then President Shinra, just chilling in his office. Far up and away from everything, where the thundering crash of the plate is but a mere muffled thud. Barely audible over the classical music he's playing.
The graphics may be outdated but the way the scene is presented? The cinematography and direction? Holds. Up.
Here...they kept playing that battle theme over the entire scene. Remember the PC version music bug that messed up the music fadeouts* and kept playing the bgm throughout the entire scene when it shouldn't have? Well here it's a feature. All that dramatic destruction, undercut by ROCKIN' GUITARS, YO. Come on!
And then to top it all of, frickin Cait Sith? This is where you place that early bird cameo? Doing, as Theozilla said, a Charlton Heston impression? That was just too silly for me. For newbies this is gonna be quite the wtf moment lol
So far I enjoyed the presentation of the remake but this scene seems like a misstep to me. And it's really just simple edits that would improve it. Take out the music, remove that Cait Sith nonsense. Done.
Alright, rant over for now.
*carried over into the PS4 version too unfortunately although at least they recently fixed this particular scene even though the bug persists in other scenes still
P.S. RIP Wedge and the cats =<
Alex Strife
Ex-SOLDIER
This was a VERY good chapter.
That scene with Aerith and Marlene. I won't lie, that was powerful for me.
Quick question... anyone knows if there's any chest after the fight with Reno and Rude? Those 30 seconds were kind of stressful and I didn't look at all
That scene with Aerith and Marlene. I won't lie, that was powerful for me.
Quick question... anyone knows if there's any chest after the fight with Reno and Rude? Those 30 seconds were kind of stressful and I didn't look at all
Misterbadguy
Phantom Lord
- AKA
- METEODRIVE
Rude using fireworks bombs was a great little nod to AC, really enjoyed that.
I definitely agree with Tets's assessment of the plate drop scene. Minor edits would make it better, and the music playing over the background just didn't fit the gravity of the moment. I wouldn't say I consider it to be a huge fail but it didn't leave a great impression.
On the upside, I thought Barret was perfect afterwards. Really got me.
On the upside, I thought Barret was perfect afterwards. Really got me.
- AKA
- Alex T
I'm keeping a log of my thoughts after each chapter. Here's Chapter 12!
- I wonder about Biggs' dying request. It's interesting that we didn't get to hear it, but we know it pertains to The Leaf House. Back in Chapter 8, I heard Ms. Folia mention that Biggs was her mentor. I'd be neat if the topic was revisited, but I like the mystery about it too. Makes his death feel raw. Biggs has taken me by surprise. In the original he's portrayed as a cool guy, but in the remake he's intelligent (making backup plans A-E), full of compassion (Avalanche's worrywart), AND hot. I'm getting emotional just writing this
- Alright, what is up with Aerith? (That's a rhetorical question.) How she talked to Marlene about moving on sounded so definitive. I can't decide if Aerith spoke that way to gain Marlene's trust or because, as I've speculated before, she's foreseen the destruction of Sector 7. Then they hug, the audiovisual crackles, Marlene realizes something, but Aerith hushes her. WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT? I was getting some weird vibes. Something was shared between those two and I'm determined to get to the bottom of it
- It looked like the aircraft Jessie destroyed crashed into the area she was standing, causing fatal injuries. The Guardians were also around, did they have something to do with it? Cloud mentions pizza during Jessie's final moments. Truly a man of my own heart. Jessie's parents lived in Sector 7, so there goes the recipe for the Midgar Special...
- Shout out to Pyramid
- Interesting that Rude is the one to release the plate
- The CGI scene where party escapes... it's okay. I wish the background track had faded quicker and opera music could still be heard in President Shinra's office. Really surprised they didn't lean into that. I'm imagining a scene where the opera singer crescendos over footage of debris as it crushes the slums. Then there's the addition of Cait Sith. I love Cait Sith, like how I love the whole cast, so when I saw him, I shouted in glee. But this wasn't the scene to introduce him. I can imagine the confusion of new players as they see this bipedal feline inserted into what is probably the most devastating scene in part one. It's almost comical his defeated reaction. The original's tone and cinematography was miles better. That's just a testament to how good FF7 is. Even with all their fancy pancy technology, they still can't reach the perfection that existed in '97
Teioh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Teiocho
I'm so happy that there was a Tifa and Jessie scene! It's everything I wanted from this part of the remake.
Plus the Turks
My dad doesn't know much about the game but he did know that the plate fell and has been looking forward to seeing it since seeing me play through Chapter 3. His suspension of disbelief only went so far as the wire they used to escape, he wasn't having any of that nonsense and now he is no longer interested in watching me play
Plus the Turks
My dad doesn't know much about the game but he did know that the plate fell and has been looking forward to seeing it since seeing me play through Chapter 3. His suspension of disbelief only went so far as the wire they used to escape, he wasn't having any of that nonsense and now he is no longer interested in watching me play
redheadturkey
Lv. 1 Adventurer
This look on Reno's face *killed* me. He looks like his whole world just died. He and Rude have always been my favorite characters in the game and they did the boys so well.
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
Ok, my thoughts, immediately after having finished chapter 12:
- I felt like Biggs had received the least amount of time in the spotlight of the trio, but his death scene was beautiful and sincere. I legit teared up. Shut up.
- The music took a somber tone afterwards, and I felt it fit the gravity of the situation perfectly.
- I hate to say it, but I feel as though Jessie's end was...I dunno, incomplete? It didn't punch as hard as I was hoping, even with Tifa literally dropping tears on the ground.
-YEAH PYRAMID!
-FUCK PYRAMID!
-I love, absolutely love, the anguish plaguing Reno throughout this chapter. He clearly doesn't want to have the blood of thousands of Innocents on his hands, but ultimately caves in to doing his job.
-Rude has a cruuuuuuush, ooooh!
-Oh shit oh shit oh shit, mafuckin CAIT SITH! I've been super diligent about avoiding spoilers, and that was a CRAZY surprise! I had completely gone in expecting to see no one beyond Red XIII in this game, so that was a WONDERFUL surprise! He looks so fucking good! I can't wait to see what his trusty steed looks like! Cait Sith is one of my favorite characters from the OG, and I think he gets a lot less attention than the others because of the whole "not actually a character/no back story/soulless robot controlled by remote" thing. BRING ON THE SITH!
- I felt like Biggs had received the least amount of time in the spotlight of the trio, but his death scene was beautiful and sincere. I legit teared up. Shut up.
- The music took a somber tone afterwards, and I felt it fit the gravity of the situation perfectly.
- I hate to say it, but I feel as though Jessie's end was...I dunno, incomplete? It didn't punch as hard as I was hoping, even with Tifa literally dropping tears on the ground.
-YEAH PYRAMID!
-FUCK PYRAMID!
-I love, absolutely love, the anguish plaguing Reno throughout this chapter. He clearly doesn't want to have the blood of thousands of Innocents on his hands, but ultimately caves in to doing his job.
-Rude has a cruuuuuuush, ooooh!
-Oh shit oh shit oh shit, mafuckin CAIT SITH! I've been super diligent about avoiding spoilers, and that was a CRAZY surprise! I had completely gone in expecting to see no one beyond Red XIII in this game, so that was a WONDERFUL surprise! He looks so fucking good! I can't wait to see what his trusty steed looks like! Cait Sith is one of my favorite characters from the OG, and I think he gets a lot less attention than the others because of the whole "not actually a character/no back story/soulless robot controlled by remote" thing. BRING ON THE SITH!
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- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I've never felt so satisfied beating the muthafuckin' breaks off of two bosses before in... A very, very long time.
Beating the shit out of Reno and Rude felt good yet. Reno trash talkin' as he gets wrecked and Rude jumpin' in only to get massacred served their asses right.
Yet it ultimately didn't change a fucking thing.
This was so fucked up and depressing, especially considering they beat Reno. They fucking took Reno out and Rude was basically out of commission until he wasn't. And then the massacre commenced. I remember finding this tragedy so fucking bizarre and cruel when I was younger. It's just so fucking insane. A psychotic ass plan of carnage to just try to get rid of a group of six people. And it makes absolutely no sense because Shinra sacrificed the dwellers at the top of the plate, their own fucking employees, to try to crush the slums and AVALANCHE below. It's clown-shoes sociopathic. Pres. Shinra deserves the shiving he'll get soon.
I will say that I get now why people said the music for the drop was off during the scene. The desperate search for escape scene music carried into the entire plate collapse. I can see that scene benefiting from a better track played there. However, the music afterwards? Jesus, I feel so depressed from it all.
Cait's cameo was so random but it somehow made me feel even sadder too. That cute thing feeling so awful as it regretted being unable to stop it. I assume it must've been trying to get people evacuate from the top or something, hence why it was active in the first place....
Just. This was really depressing, even with the changes it still made you give a damn. A whole lot of them actually.
God, the scene afterwards too with Barret. Jesus. I just can't. This is so fucked up. The voice acting made this scene. Him punching the rubble and just. I don't think there's much else I can even say here.
Beating the shit out of Reno and Rude felt good yet. Reno trash talkin' as he gets wrecked and Rude jumpin' in only to get massacred served their asses right.
Yet it ultimately didn't change a fucking thing.
This was so fucked up and depressing, especially considering they beat Reno. They fucking took Reno out and Rude was basically out of commission until he wasn't. And then the massacre commenced. I remember finding this tragedy so fucking bizarre and cruel when I was younger. It's just so fucking insane. A psychotic ass plan of carnage to just try to get rid of a group of six people. And it makes absolutely no sense because Shinra sacrificed the dwellers at the top of the plate, their own fucking employees, to try to crush the slums and AVALANCHE below. It's clown-shoes sociopathic. Pres. Shinra deserves the shiving he'll get soon.
I will say that I get now why people said the music for the drop was off during the scene. The desperate search for escape scene music carried into the entire plate collapse. I can see that scene benefiting from a better track played there. However, the music afterwards? Jesus, I feel so depressed from it all.
Cait's cameo was so random but it somehow made me feel even sadder too. That cute thing feeling so awful as it regretted being unable to stop it. I assume it must've been trying to get people evacuate from the top or something, hence why it was active in the first place....
Just. This was really depressing, even with the changes it still made you give a damn. A whole lot of them actually.
God, the scene afterwards too with Barret. Jesus. I just can't. This is so fucked up. The voice acting made this scene. Him punching the rubble and just. I don't think there's much else I can even say here.
LegendarySaiyan
AKA: SalihGuclu
I am playing through this chapter now and I can't hold back my manly tears!! Crying like a little b***.. I feel sad, angry and vengeful!
This chapter is the best chapter so far and I am happy that they expanded on Biggs, Jessie and Wedge. Biggs and Jessies deaths had a big impact on me. Very well done!!
(Jessie just died now, need to continue and finish this chapter)
This chapter is the best chapter so far and I am happy that they expanded on Biggs, Jessie and Wedge. Biggs and Jessies deaths had a big impact on me. Very well done!!
(Jessie just died now, need to continue and finish this chapter)
- AKA
- Ody
Well, I actually finished the chapter now. I could not have asked for this segment to be handled better. I was actually afraid I wasn't going to feel anything, but boy am I fucking crying now. Yes, because of Jessie obviously, but fucking Biggs' death got me good too. Wedge went back for his cats! Wedge! Why are you such a good boy! God damn it! He was a hero, that scene where he got the guards to move was amazing! And actually going to the 7th heaven was amazing!
Jessie's death was well handled too. I cannot fucking believe cloud said "you owe me a pizza!" Holy shit. She blamed herself for everything... God. Is it wrong that I' actually glad we saw her die this time? The fact you could have conceivably ran back to the stairs to save her in the original left me felling pretty dour in retrospect. Fuck. I am not fucking okay right now.
Uh, shit, other things... Reno and Rude talking sass while you go up the pillar was fun, and Reno still had his pyramid move! Rude joining the boss battle was great too. Tseng didn't slap Aerith this time, which is more in line with his character I think. Fuck. AAAAAAAAAAAaa.
I'm gonna keep playing now.
EDIT: Also, I'm glad they showed Reno having some hesitation about dropping the plate. That moment was so hard to reconcile before, but I think it works now. Makes it a little easier to not completely hate the guy.
Jessie's death was well handled too. I cannot fucking believe cloud said "you owe me a pizza!" Holy shit. She blamed herself for everything... God. Is it wrong that I' actually glad we saw her die this time? The fact you could have conceivably ran back to the stairs to save her in the original left me felling pretty dour in retrospect. Fuck. I am not fucking okay right now.
Uh, shit, other things... Reno and Rude talking sass while you go up the pillar was fun, and Reno still had his pyramid move! Rude joining the boss battle was great too. Tseng didn't slap Aerith this time, which is more in line with his character I think. Fuck. AAAAAAAAAAAaa.
I'm gonna keep playing now.
EDIT: Also, I'm glad they showed Reno having some hesitation about dropping the plate. That moment was so hard to reconcile before, but I think it works now. Makes it a little easier to not completely hate the guy.
Jimmy XH
Pro Adventurer
Had to compose my thoughts on this one as the moment I left the graveyard I was playing through a lens of fear. We all knew what was coming but I guess some of the fear was how it was all going to play out.
Overall it was pretty well done. I thought it was really cool to play as Aerith and get Marlene and others out of the slums. I always wondered how many people managed to get out of there.
One thing I hoped for but I’m still missing is the extent of what happened on the plate. Did they get a warning? Did Reeve get to sound the alarm? What happened to the people up there?
Biggs and Jessie’s scenes were hard to watch, which suggests that to me they were very nicely done. Gutted we never got to go round for Pizza. I certainly got a bit misty-eyed during both.
The battle with Reno and Rude was great. I loved smacking the life out of Reno and seeing at the end how battered he was gave me some satisfaction. I liked the touch demonstrating some level of regret about what’s about to play out, but they still went ahead and did it anyway. What a pair of villains. As for Tseng, heartless or what!!!
I do get the points about the plate fall. The silence in the OG really gave you a chill with President Shinra overlooking it. I could never work out the plate drop FMV in the original though, the perspective was weird, so at least you get that better view of it now.
Lastly, Barret’s breakdown in the playground was immaculate. The VA has got him spot on. Brilliantly done and that one had me tearing up again.
Overall it was pretty well done. I thought it was really cool to play as Aerith and get Marlene and others out of the slums. I always wondered how many people managed to get out of there.
One thing I hoped for but I’m still missing is the extent of what happened on the plate. Did they get a warning? Did Reeve get to sound the alarm? What happened to the people up there?
Biggs and Jessie’s scenes were hard to watch, which suggests that to me they were very nicely done. Gutted we never got to go round for Pizza. I certainly got a bit misty-eyed during both.
The battle with Reno and Rude was great. I loved smacking the life out of Reno and seeing at the end how battered he was gave me some satisfaction. I liked the touch demonstrating some level of regret about what’s about to play out, but they still went ahead and did it anyway. What a pair of villains. As for Tseng, heartless or what!!!
I do get the points about the plate fall. The silence in the OG really gave you a chill with President Shinra overlooking it. I could never work out the plate drop FMV in the original though, the perspective was weird, so at least you get that better view of it now.
Lastly, Barret’s breakdown in the playground was immaculate. The VA has got him spot on. Brilliantly done and that one had me tearing up again.
- AKA
- Ody
Forgot to mention, but yeah seeing Reno just completely beaten was very satisfying to my spite filled brain. Also makes him being out of action so Elena has to step in a lot more believable.
That was intense and amazing. Climbing the tower felt so desperate. It seemed like you could never reach the top. And like the end of Crisis Core, trying to prevent what you know is inevitable. The Reno and Rude fight is great, something about this remake makes them incredibly satisfying to beat the shit out of. And that Pyramid takes some work to shake.
And yeah, Barret in the aftermath was perfect. And the way they worked Tifa expressing doubt into the scene was great. I also like that Barret knew a little more about the Ancients than the others, it makes sense.
Oh, also, I've been talking about how much time I've spent just looking up the whole time I was playing this game. Seeing hte central pillar and all the plates above you was so...visceral and made Midgar feel so much more real then it ever had before. When you look up after the fall and you see that huge freakin gap in the pizza?! It's damn unsettling! What a way to make me feel the way the inhabitants of the slums do completely organically. Damn this remake rules.
And yeah, Barret in the aftermath was perfect. And the way they worked Tifa expressing doubt into the scene was great. I also like that Barret knew a little more about the Ancients than the others, it makes sense.
Oh, also, I've been talking about how much time I've spent just looking up the whole time I was playing this game. Seeing hte central pillar and all the plates above you was so...visceral and made Midgar feel so much more real then it ever had before. When you look up after the fall and you see that huge freakin gap in the pizza?! It's damn unsettling! What a way to make me feel the way the inhabitants of the slums do completely organically. Damn this remake rules.
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They've ruined Tseng. Just ruined him. He has a horrible new voice instead of that beautiful dark one he used to have. He's all creepy now. This has spoilt my pleasure in what was otherwise an amazing chapter.
I wanted this chapter to be perfect. That's why it hurts a bit that it wasn't. I'd give it a 7.5 out of 10, which is still excellent but more flawed than the other chapters. Felt plenty of appropriate/intended feelings though.
I have never hated the Turks as much as I do now. Apart from Reno expressing some reservations in Ch11, I sense no hesitation from them in Ch12 and I feel nothing but a cold-blooded desire to kill the Turks in revenge. I hate them so goddamn much right now it's weird to think back on all the humorous and even chill moments between Reno and Rude that I've enjoyed in the original game and in the Compilation. Not sure if I'll ever be able to enjoy the Turks unimpeded again, unless you count sheer fucking rage at the sons of b*tches as enjoyment. Maybe I'll love to hate them when all is said and done. Maybe.
I have never hated the Turks as much as I do now. Apart from Reno expressing some reservations in Ch11, I sense no hesitation from them in Ch12 and I feel nothing but a cold-blooded desire to kill the Turks in revenge. I hate them so goddamn much right now it's weird to think back on all the humorous and even chill moments between Reno and Rude that I've enjoyed in the original game and in the Compilation. Not sure if I'll ever be able to enjoy the Turks unimpeded again, unless you count sheer fucking rage at the sons of b*tches as enjoyment. Maybe I'll love to hate them when all is said and done. Maybe.
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Just finished this chapter last night, and it was intense, to say the least. And very emotional for me. Jessie's end and her last moments with Cloud were very much the way I hoped they would be, and while Tifa was there and it was good to see her own grief, it was much more focused on Cloud and Jessie. I'm happy with how it went and how he wasn't afraid to show that he cared for her. You could tell it was hurting him to lose her. The way he kept urging her to hold on and that those words wouldn't be her last. Carrying her and catching her arm as it fell, holding her hand there for a moment at the end when he did.
The way she confessed her feelings for him - she wasn't able to finish the sentence, but he knew what she was saying. Following it up with saying she owed him a pizza was the kind of validation of her feelings that I'd been hoping to see. It was an expression of his own grief (along with everything else he said and did there) and can also possibly be seen as an indirect admission of his own possible attraction for her, if one wishes to take it that way. The whole exchange works so well, and I think it's done in an open enough way that you can interpret the underlying feelings and emotions however you want. So see it how you like, it's all good.
I liked her last stand, and I wonder if she knew the blast would come back at her and had accepted it. The helicopter would've shot her soon enough if she hadn't thrown the grenade, I think. She was right in its sights and she knew it. Like she had chosen to go out on her own terms. I'm glad she was given a heroic end like that. I wasn't as surprised as I thought I'd be that the Whispers showed up around her considering what they did to her before, and it makes me wonder what would've happened if she hadn't been fatally injured by the blast and had been able to help Cloud, Tifa, and Barret at the top. If anyone could've disarmed the plate collapse system, it would've been her. Maybe that's why the Whispers targeted her, to make sure she would die so the collapse couldn't be stopped.
One thing I don't understand, though, is why Cloud and Tifa didn't tell Jessie the truth about the bombs when she spoke about them. After the events of Reactor 5 and what Shinra said and showed them, they must've known Shinra had blown up the reactors and that it wasn't Jessie's fault. So why didn't they tell her?
The way she confessed her feelings for him - she wasn't able to finish the sentence, but he knew what she was saying. Following it up with saying she owed him a pizza was the kind of validation of her feelings that I'd been hoping to see. It was an expression of his own grief (along with everything else he said and did there) and can also possibly be seen as an indirect admission of his own possible attraction for her, if one wishes to take it that way. The whole exchange works so well, and I think it's done in an open enough way that you can interpret the underlying feelings and emotions however you want. So see it how you like, it's all good.
I liked her last stand, and I wonder if she knew the blast would come back at her and had accepted it. The helicopter would've shot her soon enough if she hadn't thrown the grenade, I think. She was right in its sights and she knew it. Like she had chosen to go out on her own terms. I'm glad she was given a heroic end like that. I wasn't as surprised as I thought I'd be that the Whispers showed up around her considering what they did to her before, and it makes me wonder what would've happened if she hadn't been fatally injured by the blast and had been able to help Cloud, Tifa, and Barret at the top. If anyone could've disarmed the plate collapse system, it would've been her. Maybe that's why the Whispers targeted her, to make sure she would die so the collapse couldn't be stopped.
One thing I don't understand, though, is why Cloud and Tifa didn't tell Jessie the truth about the bombs when she spoke about them. After the events of Reactor 5 and what Shinra said and showed them, they must've known Shinra had blown up the reactors and that it wasn't Jessie's fault. So why didn't they tell her?
Nothing Shinra told them in Reactor 5 would have told them that Shinra blew it up, I don't think. Just that Shinra allowed it to happen.