SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 16 Spoiler Discussion

[Lex]

Discuss chapter 16 openly here! No spoilers for anything beyond chapter 16 please <3

 

[Theozilla]

Red XIII’s speaking introduction. Look’s like Aerith’s other Cetra abilities have been expanded to spiritual/soul communication. Also Aerith can already tell Red is still a teenager.

 

[Pizzachu]

The Shinra Building looks incredibly nice on the inside. It almost looks like a mall. The devs put a lot of detail and care into this.

 

[Tetsujin]

That holo presentation was amazing. The Cetra looking like they lived in a classic FF lol
But uh. Flashforwarding to Meteor? What in the actual hell

ANyway, it's almost 5am and I'm in the middle of chapter 17. Really thought I'd finish the game tonight but those last chapters are LONG as heck

 

[Theozilla]

What did you think of Aerith's childhood Shinra room?

 

[Tetsujin]

I kind of expected it, having read the summary of that World Preview book. Thought it was an interesting expansion of Aerith's backstory.

 

[micknutson9]

So... Did anyone take the 59 flights of stairs? Or did they take the elevator instead?

 

[cold_spirit]

I'm keeping a log of my thoughts after each chapter. Here's Chapter 16!

• The iconic stairwell has returned in beautiful form. I love that the battle theme plays as you climb. I love even more that the music distorts the higher you get. This scene could be made even more epic in a future re-release if they utilize the PS5's haptic feedback gimmicks lol
• Looking down on Midgar from the Shinra Building while waiting room music plays in the background made an impact on me. I thought of how disconnected Shinra's employees are to the problems in the slums. How superior that view would make you feel. I felt a bit angry
• Clever idea to use a tourist exhibition as a way to introduce the Shinra executives. I was really impressed by the picture of Neo Midgar and spent some time taking in its features
• Seeing the Ancients visualized as a classic FF world was a neat throwback. I particularly enjoyed the old school airship. However, the visualization may just be Shinra's romanticized propaganda
• The amount of physics in this game is silly. One of my greatest joys is running through stack of boxes. So cathartic. Those chairs in the recreation hall? You know I threw them all over the place. Felt real good about it too
• It still gets me that the mayor of a pizza shaped city is named Domino. Speaking of Domino, it's such a perfect fit that he's Avalanche's informant
• One of Domino's robots says "mako" lol
• After years of speculation, we finally meet the grunt who recognized Cloud in the PSX 2015 trailer. He evens mentions Kunsel! I was thinking he'd have a bigger role, but oh well!
• Even though Domino is helping the party in their infiltration, it's still pretty ridiculous how lax the security is at the Shinra Building
• I actually had the game bug out on me when I looked down into a conference room from inside the air duct. I couldn't exit the view. When I restarted the game, everything was fine
• Oh man, Hojo mentioning S and G cells. Insert Captain America "I understood that reference" meme here
• There goes Aerith doing something weird to Red XIII. Is she able to transfer emotions? It seemed like she used it to calm down both Marlene and Red XIII. And she knew that Red XIII was a child, relatively speaking. She's quite the clairvoyant in the remake

 

[Tetsujin]

So... Did anyone take the 59 flights of stairs? Or did they take the elevator instead?

I took the stairs! It was hilarious.

Also, I kind of really liked the music that kicked in when Tifa was doing the monkey bars in the lobby

 

[Makoeyes987]

Not done with this chapter yet but 5 things.

1.) The Shinra Building is incredible. It really cannot be overstated how fucking impressive their level design and art direction has been in recreating these locations.

2.) The Shinra history exhibit was LOL and impressive. My jaw dropped as I saw for myself Shinra from FFX as a founding member of Shinra. Just sitting right there in the center of the front row. The spot designated for leaders in charge, in company group photos. He's right fucking there. We're beyond Easter Eggs, these Easter chicks just hatched and now getting to grow

3.) The depiction of the Cetra with their own unique technology, civilization and ways of utilizing spirit energy was incredible. They've certainly displayed far more about them in this one entry than anything we've seen in the last 20 years.

4.) That hijack of the movie by Sephiroth is extremely telling. We see Sephiroth's intentions for the planet, which almost comes off as a warning. Barret and Tifa will die, coupled with flashes of the future attempts to prevent Meteor. It's fascinating how the Sephiroth Copies are shown congregating too. And the most intriguing thing is.. Cloud isn't the only one who saw it? Barret and Tifa comment on that same vision.

5.) The Hojo and Aerith scene. Jesus Christ. What makes it even more horrifying is imagining Hojo performing those same facial expressions, while in bed with Lucrecia, as they make their baby Sephiroth. You're welcome

 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah that scene with Hojo and Aerith was great. Hojo was an absolutely terrifying creep and I loved Aerith just giving him a cold glare throughout but then gasping for air once he was out of the room. Like she tried really hard to keep her composure and not give him the satisfaction of showing any sign of weakness and fear but it must've taken everything out of her. Really good scene.

 

[Jimmy XH]

I’m only up to floor 62 so I’m treading carefully with what I read, but my god this building is stunning. They really gave gone all out to display the decadence and paint a picture of inequality compared to what we’ve seen in the rest of the city.

The music downstairs in the lobby was oddly catchy and I wanted to explore all that I could just so I could enjoy the visuals a little bit more. It goes to show that despite some of the issues with graphics, particularly the slums backgrounds in the previous chapter climbing the plate, when they get it right they really get it right. Most of this game has been has been a treat for the eyes, and one hopes that the issues on some areas can/will be a simple fix.

The museum was such a nice touch and really demonstrated what egomaniacs they all are. It just feels so right that a company like Shinra would have a museum to sell its wonders to the world.

And what about Mayor Domino? The sly old dog. That’s a great twist to have him as an insider and helps answer why the three of them getting into the building was so trouble-free.

Up we go...

 

[Odysseus]

no mention of Cloud having never actually been to Shinra HQ before. Guess that bit of lore inconsistency is being sweeped under the rug.

I love the twist that Domino was an Avalanche spy, that makes perfect sense given his hatred for Shinra in the original. I also like that he was covering out MCs tracks the whole way through the building. The game has actually done an amazing job of making me question the credibility of the main characters. Barret is so clearly in the wrong about so many things, he's almost like a cult leader at times. It really gives credence to why Cloud ultimately becomes the party head , Barret is just not qualified.

I'm doing the VR battles now, they're kinda tough!

EDIT: Ay, they mentioned Kunsel! Rad. It's nice that some people actually recognize Cloud this time, too. Really heightens his mental incongruity. I hope we see more of that later.

EDIT 2: Finished the VR missions. On with the plot!

EDIT 3: Holy shit did the guardians of fate just stop Hojo from spoiling the plot? lol.

EDIT 4: Okay, chapter complete! I appreciate that the Sector 7 plate collapse isn't sitting well with the Turks. I mean, they're still monsters for going through with it, but like Tseng said, SOMEBODY would have. Reno, you do need R&R, how else are we gonna bring Elena in!

 

[Jimmy XH]

Someone from Shinra recognises Cloud! I was banging on about this for ages so I’m really glad it’s happened.

It’s a nice little scenario with the foot soldier recognising him from training and Cloud just not being sure what to say. As for Hojo, he DOES know him! Great, that settles me down a little bit. Makes sense that something would come along to interrupt him giving the game away, but it would be those bloody Whispers wouldn’t it.

The sequence with Cloud being dragged towards his vision of Jenova was edge of the seat stuff.

And here we go! My boy Red XIII is back! Whilst of course it is disappointing that we can’t play as him yet, it obviously makes sense within the timeframe of the game that we can’t. Looking forward to every word he has to say in the meantime though...

 

[ForceStealer]

Just started this but I wanna say I love the FF7 main theme leitmotif in this track.

And man does the Shinra building look ominous. Walking in front of the floodlights was fun, with them shielding their faces.

 

[ForceStealer]

That chapter was phenomenal. The Shinra propaganda museum which looked so MUCH like museum presentations I've done before (although with less propaganda. The voiceover over the model and in the movie was also spot-on to what those kinds of things always sound like. Seconded Tets with that 80s techno track while you're controlling Tifa. Oh and hte stairs were great. Others have mentioned it, but the music distortion as you get more exhausted was great, because I know exactly that feeling.

The whole building looked amazing. As Mako said, their level design in here is outstanding.
They were messing around in the parking garage either, throwing mixes of enemies at you at hte same time - troopers and riot police along with SOLDIER: 3rds. Craziness. But satisfying to defeat In doing all the sidequests 2 chapters back I had gotten rather lazy, I was a high enough level that I really didn't need to rely much on ATB actions. This fight cured me of that quick.

And yeah that holo-presentation was jaw-droppping. Love the archives, and Domino being an inside asset, that's a perfect little change. Who'd have thought that goofy Palmer scene would be him spotting Sephiroth! Also, that was exceedingly cold, Scarlet, lol. The glimpse of Reeve and his secretary was also a good moment. Cloud being recognized, a Kunsel name-drop. The meeting... everything. Really well done. Hojo was definitely a grade-A creep.
I hope I didn't miss a good item at the first T intersection in the airducts. I got the first one, but I was not wiling to go that slowly backwards all the way to the other one. I thought to myself that Shademp would

That Specimen boss was TOUGH. It seemed like I was falling apart there but all of a sudden he was down to low health and I was on top of my team. Cool to see those Armored troopers! Even with the insides! At first they were annoying the hell out of me, but as long as you watch out for Skewer and dodge, they aren't too bad.

Fun to see the Turks in their little playroom. I dunno, everyone else kinda said everything, but yeah, I loved it. I still don't really know where they're going with this Guardians thing, and I've stopped trying to guess. Them preventing Hojo from "spoiling the plot," as cold said, is pretty funny.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I am blown away. This chapter alone is worth what I paid for this game. I don't mind admitting that I burst into tears watching the Cosmo Theatre video of their planet's past and future. When future installments of the Remake break out into the open world, it's going to be heart-achingly beautiful.

The Shinra building is everything I hoped it would be. Maybe part of my discontent with earlier chapters was due to my eagerness to get here.

I loved how perfectly they preserved Domino's character while also making him an Avalanche spy. Did any pay Hart his bribe? I know I didn't.

Neo-Midgar is stunning. Reeve must have his heart set on it. No wonder he's sold his soul to satan.

4.) That hijack of the movie by Sephiroth is extremely telling. We see Sephiroth's intentions for the planet, which almost comes off as a warning. Barret and Tifa will die, coupled with flashes of the future attempts to prevent Meteor. It's fascinating how the Sephiroth Copies are shown congregating too. And the most intriguing thing is.. Cloud isn't the only one who saw it? Barret and Tifa comment on that same vision.

That's what I thought at first too, and it's possible to take it that way. But it's also possible that Tifa and Barret are referring to the meteor that was shown killing the Ancients, not Sephiroth's hijack. If Tifa had seen Sephiroth and her own death, you'd think she'd have reacted more strongly. So, upon reflection, I don't believe they saw what Cloud saw.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Barret takes offense to the idea that kids might be shown this, though. The Cetra video doesn't contain anything particularly objectionable.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It shows all those Ancient people being wiped out by a Meteor. At about the same age as Marlene, my sister was given weeks of nightmares by a Marx Brothers film showing a bath-tub overflowing. A kid's imagination going to work on the sight of that meteor zeroing in on those idyllic people would make for plenty of sleepless nights for a five year old.

But like I said, I think they wrote it so you can take it either way.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Tifa: "That huge meteor... What was that about?"

She's clearly not talking about the rather mundane presentation of the meteor that wiped out the Cetra. She has no particular reason to call that one "huge," and she knows precisely what that one was about. The presentation explains it.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Well, as someone else said to me recently, we must agree to differ. I can't believe she would have reacted with such sang froid to a vision of Sephiroth taking her life while Midgar blew away all around them.

 

[Tetsujin]

They are reacting to that vision the entire time throughout though. They are startled when that second "presentation" starts and look around shocked at everything happening. The vision of their deaths might have been reserved for Cloud only perhaps. But they definitely saw Midgar and Meteor.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I'll have to watch it again more closely. Perhaps they all saw different things, and we only see what Cloud saw.

 

[AerithLives]

I was a little disappointed to not hear Tifa go "EXCUSE ME!" after hearing Aerith and Cloud talk about a date through the wall. ?

 

[Theozilla]

Besides the plot not including the cells, I think the writers in general are trying to avoid making the characters come as juvenile sounding in their dialogue in the Remake, particularly in regards to potential LT stuff.