SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[Cannon_Fodder]

It's the same story with a new additional thread that moves parallel to the OG's and ends as the original story moves onto it's next part. Your subjective of opinion of what should or shouldn't be included in an expansive adaption of FFVII's story is understandable and your own, however it doesn't somehow negate the FFVII-ness of FFVII-Remake. The Lifestream has never just "avoided the common tropes" given that the Lifestream has gone from being able to hold a will of it's own, manifest a Goddess, and seemingly create an entity that serves as an ark to sail the sea of stars. You're selectively picking and choosing what portions of the Lifestream are "FFVII" to you.

I'm guilty on that count; I always thought that the lifestream being able to manifest a goddess or create an entity that serves as an ark to sail the sea of stars were uninteresting ideas that didn't fit the established lore of FFVII either, haha.

 

[Theozilla]

The Omega lore from DoC was actually one of my favorite additions the Compilation made to FFVII. I really liked how life not only cycled not only through the Planet, but the Planet itself was also part of a even greater cosmological cycle of planetary life.

 

[Firstone33]

So I saw the ending and certain things I saw that caught my curiosity and interest.

First Biggs survived! I saw him on a bed and then he opens his eyes and that was it but he had a bandage on his head where his headband would be and on the nightstand his gloves and headband laid....is it possible that Biggs got out of midgar during plate fall or someone got him out? It is a nice touch and twist I mean just imagine how hurt he will be when he learns Jessie and wedge did not survive but he did of course this could be a vision of what could have been but only seeing the full game will tell.

Since I only got to where cloud meets aerith and escapes Reno and church. Now sephiroth you fight at the end so night sky prince of YouTube was right! And apparently you fight him in a illusionary realm via Advent children like he has coat and everything on and fight him one on one like you do in final Battle in original, the video I saw had low audio and eng sub jap dub so did not hear what they said nor music but one wanted angel I heard very closely was playing.

So there is that and Zack! Yep we are introduced to Zack immediately! He appears in ending mainly his final moments but not his death but we see him apparently via aerith having visions from the watchers from what I saw and man he looks awesome! Nomura and Kitase are really going all out with the remake.

Last part of ending I saw cloud walking and aerith stops as the memory vision of Zack carrying cloud towards the cliff where Zack dies appears before her and she looks sad, it seems the remake is hinting that aerith learns of Zack's fate early in story unlike original where she did not know until after she died, although I am spoiling it by seeing a video I will not know the full details until after game is actually out.

But to my eyes and opinion square enix mainly the ffvii team are doing an incredible and awesome job to give us veteran fans and new fans the best experience ever! And I have never been more happy being a ffvii fan than I am now

 

[Noble0ne]

Wait, does that mean that, essentially, they're using the Whispers as a way to describe why certain things happen in the past? Zack was always fated to die, but that sounds like their intervention specifically ensured it'd happen the way it did...I guess? Which is like the whole—go back in time to change things, only to find that you going back in time is what caused things, and—

I hate time travel.

I feel like I'm also missing a cutscene too, cause other than the bright light thing that Zack sees, I don't remember the Whispers interfering with anything.

The whispers save Aerith in Ch4, blowing wind on Reno and guards, then save her from falling off the church balcony to capture by of the Turks.

The arbiters of fate wanted to keep the timeline like the OG.

The abiters off fate slow you down on your exit of chapter 5 slums with tife and specifically attack Jesse so she can't go on the next bombing run mission. This leave biggs and Jesse to be sure to be under the plate fighting for Avelance while your running through the train grave yard

Hmmm... Maybe the fate wanted things to be like the OG :/

Ch17 The wispers take wedge...likey to keep the time line like events in the OG

Ch 17 The whispers save Barret from death... Legit bring him back to life after sephiroth kills him. Red X even says the whispers must not think it is your tome to die.

The arbiters of fate again wanted to keep the existing timeline like events of the OG.

Where dealing with alternate time lines... Let it sink in... Embrace it...

I Dont think people mind it not being 1 for 1.../but rather just tell a good not rushed story if your going to do that. I loved it all fates and all till the end... The end felt rushed to me. If your going to be daring... Pull it off.

 

[oty]

Arbiters of fat lmao

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Finally... I have the time to go more in-depth about this...

There's two main problems I have with the whole "Arbiters of Fate" bit. One is from a story-telling angle, the other from a meta one.

The story-telling problem: Being able to "pick" a future and manipulate the "present/past" so that future happens robs characters of agency.

Assuming the whole "decide a given future is fated to happen and manipulate the present/past so that future happens" thing is correct... this opens up a huge plot-hole where character agency is concerned. Taking things at face-value, Sephrioth manipulates the past so that a future he wants comes about with Zack dying. Or maybe it's the Arbiters doing the manipulating. It doesn't really matter who is doing it though.

What does matter is that the present/past can be manipulated at all. This is a huge problem in a game where most of the really horrible events of the present were set in motion by decisions people made in the past. Oftentimes by people who really didn't know what the outcome would really be like. However, we did know in the OG that those people made those decisions for themselves. They didn't make those decisions because they were fated to by some outside force so a certain future would come about. They made those decisions because they didn't care about morality, didn't have all the information at the time, weren't caring about other people, etc. Sure, their decisions were often based on horrible logic, but they were their decisions.

Now... I really don't know what there is to prevent the entire backstory to be a set-up from square one. Did Gast decided to dig Jenova up? or did the Arbiters decide he was "fated" to and nudged him to do it? Did Lucrecia really want to be a part of Hojo's experiment? or did the Arbiters decide she was going to be Sephrioth's birth mom? Was Sephrioth really reacting to Jenova's influence in the Nibelheim reactor? or did the Arbiters mess with his head because he was "fated" to snap? I just have pictures in my head of all the flash-backs in the OG having the Arbiters of Fate in them making sure it plays out like in the OG even when the characters themselves orriginally decide otherwise... And at this point... I can't see what that couldn't happen.

The problem with all this is that it kinda assumes all the characters are under the control/influence of something else and that the characters own motivations really don't matter in the long run. The "main character" is pretty much the person controlling everyone else. And... it's not just Sephrioth that could be in that role either... The Planet itself is just as good a candidate.

It's probably not helping that for a long time I've entertained the idea that the Planet actually let the entire thing with Jenova getting found and a Jenova-Human hybrid getting thrown in the Lifestream happen so that the Planet could finally absorb Jenova into itself. And that the Planet didn't really care who else died or got screwed over in the process since the Jenova threat was finally dealt with... which pretty much made all the characters out to be extensions of the Planet's will. Only issue with that theory was... there was no way for the Planet to influence the characters directly other then Aerith. I really did not need canon to help make that theory sound more plausible...

The meta problem: Arc/Theme fatigue across the Final Fantasy series.

If we count FFVIIR as the next single-player FF main title, the last four single-player FF main titles have largely centered about the concept of "Fate" and the player character's relationships to it. FFXII has the Occuria manipulating the overall history of Ivalice into the direction they want it to go. Humanity manages to shrug off their influence by the end of the game by resisting their atempted manipulations with logic and just plain killing them.

FFXIII has literal Dues ex Machina running the world and giving specific people roles to play all while the gods plot the extinction of humanity. One group of people manage to fight against their roles and bring the god down... even while another goddess was backing them the whole time (unknowingly).

FFXV has a pantheon more or less dump the role of containing/eradicating a disease on their world onto an entire family line. The family does end up accepting their fate/role (more or less), but it costs them their sanity, their lifespans and ultimately their lives. A large chunk of the tragedy stems from the god who came up with the plan being very unsympathetic to how this effects the actual people involved.

FFVIIR has the Arbiters of Fate who somehow know what is happening in the future(s) and can do crazy things like effect the past/present to make sure the "right" future comes about. It currently seems like they've been defeated, but the story's not done yet, so who knows.

Long story short... the Final Fantasy series has dealt with "fate" a lot in recent times. And as a concept, I feel like it's starting to get a little old. Or at least, I'd appreciate it if the story writers could use some other trope then "the main characters have been fated to do this thing by this entity". Creativity in story themes is just as important as creativity in setting and character types.

And... it doesn't really feel like the overall stories of the single-player FF games have been all that creative for a number of years/titles. They are all variations on "figure out if the "fate" of the characters is mainly good or bad and then decide to accept it or defy it". I don't see FFVIIR doing anything different with the Arbiters of Fate and we already know that Sephrioth's plans are bad...

TLDR: Introducing a concept of "Fate" that has knowledge of the future and can effect the present/past opens the door for a character's agency to not be meaningful. This leads to an idea of the characters being chess-pieces for some other entity.

The concept of "Fate" feels boring since so many modern single-player FF games focus on defying/accepting it. To see FFVIIR go that route makes the story feel more like an "average" FF game. "Fate" plots also have very predictable outcomes by and large.

 

[Noble0ne]

Arbiters of fat lmao

Fat finger mistakes are real on my phone

 

[Noble0ne]

Finally... I have the time to go more in-depth about this...

There's two main problems I have with the whole "Arbiters of Fate" bit. Ine is from a story-telling angle, the other from a meta one.

The story-telling problem: Being able to "pick" a future and manipulate the "present/past" so that future happens robs characters of agency.

Assuming the whole "decide a given future is fated to happen and manipulate the present/past so that future happens" thing is correct... this opens up a huge plot-hole where character agency is concerned. Taking things at face-value, Sephrioth manipulates the past so that a future he wants comes about with Zack dying. Or maybe it's the Arbiters doing the manipulating. It doesn't really matter who is doing it though.

What does matter is that the present/past can be manipulated at all. This is a huge problem in a game where most of the really horrible events of the present were set in motion by decisions people made in the past. Oftentimes by people who really didn't know what the outcome would really be like. However, we did know in the OG that those people made those decisions for themselves. They didn't make those decisions because they were fated to by some outside force so a certain future would come about. They made those decisions because they didn't care about morality, didn't have all the information at the time, weren't caring about other people, etc. Sure, their decisions were often based on horrible logic, but they were their decisions.

Now... I really don't know what there is to prevent the entire backstory to be a set-up from square one. Did Gast decided to dig Jenova up? or did the Arbiters decide he was "fated" to and nudged him to do it? Did Lucrecia really want to be a part of Hojo's experiment? or did the Arbiters decide she was going to be Sephrioth's birth mom? Was Sephrioth really reacting to Jenova's influence in the Nibelheim reactor? or did the Arbiters mess with his head because he was "fated" to snap? I just have pictures in my head of all the flash-backs in the OG having the Arbiters of Fate in them making sure it plays out like in the OG even when the characters themselves orriginally decide otherwise... And at this point... I can't see what that couldn't happen.

The problem with all this is that it kinda assumes all the characters are under the control/influence of something else and that the characters own motivations really don't matter in the long run. The "main character" is pretty much the person controlling everyone else. And... it's not just Sephrioth that could be in that role either... The Planet itself is just as good a candidate.

It's probably not helping that for a long time I've entertained the idea that the Planet actually let the entire thing with Jenova getting found and a Jenova-Human hybrid getting thrown in the Lifestream happen so that the Planet could finally absorb Jenova into itself. And that the Planet didn't really care who else died or got screwed over in the process since the Jenova threat was finally dealt with... which pretty much made all the characters out to be extensions of the Planet's will. Only issue with that theory was... there was no way for the Planet to influence the characters directly other then Aerith. I really did not need canon to help make that theory sound more plausible...

The meta problem: Arc/Theme fatigue across the Final Fantasy series.

If we count FFVIIR as the next single-player FF main title, the last four single-player FF main titles have largely centered about the concept of "Fate" and the player character's relationships to it. FFXII has the Occuria manipulating the overall history of Ivalice into the direction they want it to go. Humanity manages to shrug off their influence by the end of the game by resisting their atempted manipulations with logic and just plain killing them.

FFXIII has literal Dues ex Machina running the world and giving specific people roles to play all while the gods plot the extinction of humanity. One group of people manage to fight against their roles and bring the god down... even while another goddess was backing them the whole time (unknowingly).

FFXV has a pantheon more or less dump the role of containing/eradicating a disease on their world onto an entire family line. The family does end up accepting their fate/role (more or less), but it costs them their sanity, their lifespans and ultimately their lives. A large chunk of the tragedy stems from the god who came up with the plan being very unsympathetic to how this effects the actual people involved.

FFVIIR has the Arbiters of Fate who somehow know what is happening in the future(s) and can do crazy things like effect the past/present to make sure the "right" future comes about. It currently seems like they've been defeated, but the story's not done yet, so who knows.

Long story short... the Final Fantasy series has dealt with "fate" a lot in recent times. And as a concept, I feel like it's starting to get a little old. Or at least, I'd appreciate it if the story writers could use some other trope then "the main characters have been fated to do this thing by this entity". Creativity in story themes is just as important as creativity in setting and character types.

And... it doesn't really feel like the overall stories of the single-player FF games have been all that creative for a number of years/titles. They are all variations on "figure out if the "fate" of the characters is mainly good or bad and then decide to accept it or defy it". I don't see FFVIIR doing anything different with the Arbiters of Fate and we already know that Sephiroth's plans are bad...

TLDR: Introducing a concept of "Fate" that has knowledge of the future and can affect the present/past opens the door for a character's agency to not be meaningful. This leads to an idea of the characters being chess-pieces for some other entity.

The concept of "Fate" feels boring since so many modern single-player FF games focus on defying/accepting it. To see FFVIIR go that route makes the story feel more like an "average" FF game. "Fate" plots also have very predictable outcomes by and large.

So I think you're getting the timeline wrong... It looks to me like this is a sequel to Advent children & the OG game...

The original events already happened.

However, just like how the planet made the weapons to protect itself. Or how Holy decides what's good and bad for the planet...

The arbiters of Fate seem to be a creation of the cosmos when Sephiroth has now Kicked into gear fall back plan D... Time tampering...

He died from cloud... So plan B was a meteor
He loses to the squad... So Plan C was Advent children clones...

He losses again so plan D is time manipulation

It's wonky I know but over all, it's still means there is one timeline and that fate doesn't like time manipulation to sub time lineage. However, if Sephy or anyone is successful at fighting fate. Then it's still sequel event wise. Like the way, Kafka destroyed the earth in ff6... How to reverse that... Time travel

It not that the arbiters know what happened in the future persay... They know what already haplened

 

[Theozilla]

I mean “fate” as very nebulous concept was very much a part of FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX too. It was even present in the nit era of FF, with FFI being about breaking a fated paradox. FFIII is all about cycling fates, between Floods of Light and Darkness, FFIV has Zerom desiring a different fate for the Lunarians. And FFVI had it as the main motivation for Kefka’s despair, since everything in life is fated to end.
I think it’s more a common recurring element (like crystals, summons, etc.) of the FF franchise as a whole than a recent development. Some entries just lean into the meta aspect more than others.

And I really don’t think the ending of the first part of the Remake is implying Sephiroth is a post-AC/C version of himself, and the Remake is a pseudo in-universe sequel/reboot like the Chris Pine Star Trek movie.

 

[Noble0ne]

FF7 Heroes journey to save the planet...

FF7r Heros journey to save the cosmos...

I'm calling it

 

[Makoeyes987]

Finally... I have the time to go more in-depth about this...

There's two main problems I have with the whole "Arbiters of Fate" bit. One is from a story-telling angle, the other from a meta one.

The story-telling problem: Being able to "pick" a future and manipulate the "present/past" so that future happens robs characters of agency.

Assuming the whole "decide a given future is fated to happen and manipulate the present/past so that future happens" thing is correct... this opens up a huge plot-hole where character agency is concerned. Taking things at face-value, Sephrioth manipulates the past so that a future he wants comes about with Zack dying. Or maybe it's the Arbiters doing the manipulating. It doesn't really matter who is doing it though.

What does matter is that the present/past can be manipulated at all. This is a huge problem in a game where most of the really horrible events of the present were set in motion by decisions people made in the past. Oftentimes by people who really didn't know what the outcome would really be like. However, we did know in the OG that those people made those decisions for themselves. They didn't make those decisions because they were fated to by some outside force so a certain future would come about. They made those decisions because they didn't care about morality, didn't have all the information at the time, weren't caring about other people, etc. Sure, their decisions were often based on horrible logic, but they were their decisions.

Now... I really don't know what there is to prevent the entire backstory to be a set-up from square one. Did Gast decided to dig Jenova up? or did the Arbiters decide he was "fated" to and nudged him to do it? Did Lucrecia really want to be a part of Hojo's experiment? or did the Arbiters decide she was going to be Sephrioth's birth mom? Was Sephrioth really reacting to Jenova's influence in the Nibelheim reactor? or did the Arbiters mess with his head because he was "fated" to snap? I just have pictures in my head of all the flash-backs in the OG having the Arbiters of Fate in them making sure it plays out like in the OG even when the characters themselves orriginally decide otherwise... And at this point... I can't see what that couldn't happen.

The problem with all this is that it kinda assumes all the characters are under the control/influence of something else and that the characters own motivations really don't matter in the long run. The "main character" is pretty much the person controlling everyone else. And... it's not just Sephrioth that could be in that role either... The Planet itself is just as good a candidate.

It's probably not helping that for a long time I've entertained the idea that the Planet actually let the entire thing with Jenova getting found and a Jenova-Human hybrid getting thrown in the Lifestream happen so that the Planet could finally absorb Jenova into itself. And that the Planet didn't really care who else died or got screwed over in the process since the Jenova threat was finally dealt with... which pretty much made all the characters out to be extensions of the Planet's will. Only issue with that theory was... there was no way for the Planet to influence the characters directly other then Aerith. I really did not need canon to help make that theory sound more plausible...

The meta problem: Arc/Theme fatigue across the Final Fantasy series.

If we count FFVIIR as the next single-player FF main title, the last four single-player FF main titles have largely centered about the concept of "Fate" and the player character's relationships to it. FFXII has the Occuria manipulating the overall history of Ivalice into the direction they want it to go. Humanity manages to shrug off their influence by the end of the game by resisting their atempted manipulations with logic and just plain killing them.

FFXIII has literal Dues ex Machina running the world and giving specific people roles to play all while the gods plot the extinction of humanity. One group of people manage to fight against their roles and bring the god down... even while another goddess was backing them the whole time (unknowingly).

FFXV has a pantheon more or less dump the role of containing/eradicating a disease on their world onto an entire family line. The family does end up accepting their fate/role (more or less), but it costs them their sanity, their lifespans and ultimately their lives. A large chunk of the tragedy stems from the god who came up with the plan being very unsympathetic to how this effects the actual people involved.

FFVIIR has the Arbiters of Fate who somehow know what is happening in the future(s) and can do crazy things like effect the past/present to make sure the "right" future comes about. It currently seems like they've been defeated, but the story's not done yet, so who knows.

Long story short... the Final Fantasy series has dealt with "fate" a lot in recent times. And as a concept, I feel like it's starting to get a little old. Or at least, I'd appreciate it if the story writers could use some other trope then "the main characters have been fated to do this thing by this entity". Creativity in story themes is just as important as creativity in setting and character types.

And... it doesn't really feel like the overall stories of the single-player FF games have been all that creative for a number of years/titles. They are all variations on "figure out if the "fate" of the characters is mainly good or bad and then decide to accept it or defy it". I don't see FFVIIR doing anything different with the Arbiters of Fate and we already know that Sephrioth's plans are bad...

TLDR: Introducing a concept of "Fate" that has knowledge of the future and can effect the present/past opens the door for a character's agency to not be meaningful. This leads to an idea of the characters being chess-pieces for some other entity.

The concept of "Fate" feels boring since so many modern single-player FF games focus on defying/accepting it. To see FFVIIR go that route makes the story feel more like an "average" FF game. "Fate" plots also have very predictable outcomes by and large.

Character agency isn't at risk due to the fact the characters are not "fated" to any of the choices they've made. These are their own that exist independently. The arbiters are interlopers from outside of the current alignment of events, which are trying to push the planet in a direction that ultimately leads... To Sephiroth exploiting it. He seemingly tries to and the characters have to choose either to bend the knee and accept his temptation, or fight and face off with something that could be far worst. They chose to fight him. It ends and the door shuts.

The method and means of this temporal meddling is not the same as what's in XV, or XIII. There are thankfully no paradoxes. No gods forcing an inevitable conclusion. And it ends with the direction of VII's continuity remaining in tact. Again, we have to see how it all is explained but nothing has been shown to reveal anything of FFVII's world being reduced or altered through the machinations of an outside force. Unless otherwise stated, I don't see a point in assuming it's all a grand time travel conspiracy. Spirit energy has been shown to do all sorts of weird things, I just would like to know how they explain what exactly caused all this and why. It could be interesting, or it could be a bizarre, unspoken, and explained event. I certainly hope it's not the latter.

As for "fate" as an overused concept, we can easily say that about "spirit energy" which has been used all throughout the 90s era FFs with VII, Spirits Within, IX, X, and even all the way to XIV and Type-0. FF has reused lots of concepts and plot points. That just happens with the brand and mythology. FFVII's inclusion of time travel makes it no more a time-fate series than any other popular work that has an obligatory time travel arc or episode which gets teased, played out and ultimately concluded. If FFVII gives us an adult Denzel who heralds from the future with an eye-patch... Then I'd be worried

 

[Kratos]

This is a few pages too late, but I'm surprised nobody has brought up Kitase. He's just as responsible for this as either of the other two - maybe moreso, since he could have presumably veto'd pretty much whatever as the main overseer of the project.

 

[Noble0ne]

Your not worried FF7 that was a stand out in the franchise in general, is being pushed to be like the rest of the franchise? What made FF7 so great had to have had some influence from it's modern realistic tone

 

[Makoeyes987]

Your not worried that FF7 that was a stand out in the franchise in general is being pushed to be like the rest of the franchise? What made FF7 so great had to have some influence from it's more modern realistic tone

I'm not worried about anything, FFVII doesn't have anything to prove. It's exists and has established itself. It doesn't need to somehow validate it's own existence, story, or narrative composition. Let the writers write and make the story as they see fit. Them trying to limit themselves to fit the pre-conceived scope of what is or isn't acceptable as FFVII is precisely the type of thinking that leads to works playing it safe, stagnating, cloaking themselves in their sameness, and ultimately losing connection to the creative energy that motivates creators to create works that have life.

 

[Noble0ne]

well... Fair enough... Art can still be hit or mis when alowed great freedom

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Them trying to limit themselves to fit the pre-conceived scope of what is or isn't acceptable as FFVII is precisely the type of thinking that leads to works playing it safe, stagnating, cloaking themselves in their sameness, and ultimately losing connection to the creative energy that motivates creators to create works that have life.

Of the many negative critiques leveled at the Compilation titles, I don't remember that ever being one of them. =P Quite the opposite, truth be told.

 

[rkss]

I can understand the uneasy feeling among fans.
Problem with modern SE is only their FF franchise, they're doing fine in other areas. 14 also wasn't doing well until they brought DQ team, surprise!
And you know, the people who's been responsible for that are making this game. Since the beginning, people always been wondering if SE can pull this off and with this kind of changes, it just adds fuel to the fire.

Will take time for people to cool off.

 

[Theozilla]

Also fate and time gets referenced a lot in (maybe Japanese ones more?) video games even when it’s just like flavor/aesthetic. The Metal Gear series, when you get a game over, in the games featuring Big Boss as a protagonist, you get a “time paradox” message, even though no literal time travel occurs in the series.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Of the many negative critiques leveled at the Compilation titles, I don't remember that ever being one of them. =P Quite the opposite, truth be told.

Right, that's what I'm saying they've avoided doing to their credit. I think it's a good thing they've never felt the need to limit themselves based on a perception of what they should or shouldn't be with their past work. Even when they may fall flat, at the very least, they tried it their way and not by simply trying to stick to a nostalgic perception via playing it safe. I'd rather them be weird and challenging, than narrow and stagnant.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

@Makoeyes987
I think I mostly agree. Maybe?

At least it seems like they nailed everything else in terms of making this feel like the original before taking this weird departure. That should go a long way towards earning them some fan credit and benefit of the doubt with deviating from the original material (to whatever extent they have here).

 

[Noble0ne]

Right, that's what I'm saying they've avoided doing to their credit. I think it's a good thing they've never felt the need to limit themselves based on a perception of what they should or shouldn't be with their past work. Even when they may fall flat, at the very least, they tried it their way and not by simply trying to stick to a nostalgic perception via playing it safe. I'd rather them be weird and challenging, than narrow and stagnant.

Even so, they should look at star wars and consider some self critique at times... Or end up with a episode 9 equivalent (non cohesive creation)

Mostly agree as well tho

 

[Theozilla]

I think the problem with SW Episode 9 is that they basically tried to backpedal on the new stuff Episode 8 (just to be clear I really like TLJ) did and tried to bank on nostalgia to fuel Episode 9.

 

[Noble0ne]

But all new decisions are good one right ?

Jkjk rhetorical...i kidd

 

[Makoeyes987]

But all new decisions are good one right ?

Jkjk rhetorical...i kidd

Nope but dogmatically staying within the lines of the past for fear of any creative endeavor being labeled a "departure," "wrong" or "not in line" with what is to be expected leads to a feedback loop of stagnation. Especially if you do try to go outside the lines and then back pedal while simultaneously trying to pay homage to the newness, but not really because you're afraid of validating it too much. Star Wars became afraid of itself, charted a course without no map after nuking its EU, and was working with so many different writers with no overarching plot, it was inevitable they would have inconsistency between each new sequel episode.

VII at least benefits from having the same gang together working freely to do what they want to do, with their own material. And whatever one may say about modern S-E, I enjoy that they are not beholden to simply stay the same course and "protect the brand." They can go wild and free and YMMV.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

Eh, most people's opinions are going to be more set once we all get our hands on the game, watch walkthroughs, see interviews, etc.

Just to be clear for myself, my concern, as much as I've been making the "Jenova-Heartless Darkside" joke, isn't really about any of that, actually. Just specific things (at this point, only two, really) that I've been able to watch and gain knowledge of. This development is fine to me in the sense that I had hoped, or was very prepared to believe, that there would be additions to this story because the team were in a position where they were well fully capable of doing so. If anything, I mostly agree with the point that these changes hasn't changed the complete makeup of the FFVII story in full, and most likely won't for the next parts. Even after this, it's still very much so identifiable as FFVII while also having new, creative spins on it for the sake of a story that is 20+ years old and had expansion to its constitution over that amount of years. There are things, changes and differences, that I'm actually well anticipating by the merit of its value to be placed in the Remake, after all.

Doesn't mean change is always good, whether observed on a level of impartial judgement or not, but overall, I wouldn't go with any claims that it isn't, like, FFVII anymore. I haven't played the game in full, true, but for what I have seen, the deviations aren't of THAT nature.