SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[SpacemanZero]

The Stamp dog breed is an entirely different discussion.
And I also just provided my evidence that the damaged 7th Heaven signs in Chapter 13 and Chapter 18's ending sequence aren't any different, they just are viewed from different angles/backgrounds. As for accidentally leaving in the Sector 7 plate untouched, yeah I can believe such an egregious error occurred when comparable ones like the Sector 5 slums being under the Sector 6 plate occurred in the Remake.

The broken cracks/missing pieces are identical in both pictures, the angles make them look slightly different. And the V is present in the Chapter 13 version as well. The Chapter 13 letters really aren't much different looking than the Chapter 18 ones, the former are a little more smudged than the latter, but that is easily due to how the different scenes render out the same asset slightly differently due to the different lighting and filters going on in them.


Mako they already messed up with the Sector 5 slums, so I definitely can believe they messed up elsewhere.

But the sign is still different between the one shown in the ending and the one shown after the plate fell. The crack is different, different parts of the letters are showing, and it isn't because of the camera angle. The one from after the plate fell has a much wider crack, that doesn't even leave anything from the first V left.

 

[ForceStealer]

I think they've clearly used sector 6's assets to represent sector 7's broken plate

My main question with this is - why? After the plate falls, there's clearly no plate at all over Sector 7. So why is there one there in the ending? Honestly I didn't even notice while I was watching.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's a glaring continuity error, that either speaks to them horribly animating what should be a clear, empty shot of the sky or an intentional indication that they're within a different timeline.

The residents moving to Sector 6 and making use of the junk and debris there to rebuild and what not wouldn't be too fantastical to believe. However, given the inconsistency with Sector 5, they clearly aren't above making mistakes.

However.

How would such a major CGI movie as the ending of the entire game, escape scrutiny or continuity checking? Would they really flub such a significant scene?

 

[SpacemanZero]

Guys I don't understand this theory about the plates. I think they've clearly used sector 6's assets to represent sector 7's broken plate, but even if they hadn't, the reason the other one is intact in the ending is because it's sector 8's plate, not sector 6's.

To simplify:

The neighbouring plate you see when you're looking AT Seventh Heaven is Sector 8
The neighbouring plate you see when you're looking AWAY from Seventh Heaven is Sector 6

^that's the case at all times both in the original and in the remake

You never see sector 6 (while in sector 7) during the ending. The camera doesn't look in that direction.

FWIW I believe the AU stuff is real, but the Sector 7 plate collapsed in any version of events.

And I don't understand this. The sector 7 plate is shown completely wrecked. Why wouldn't this show up in the ending: https://www.fr24news.com/a2/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/hbu3hhrooqskecvopl49.jpg

There's nothing standing between sectors 6 and 8, but there definitively is in the end.

 

[Lex]

My main question with this is - why? After the plate falls, there's clearly no plate at all over Sector 7. So why is there one there in the ending? Honestly I didn't even notice while I was watching.

I don't know. But I will believe with my entire being it's a goof over the idea that it's evidence of an AU when there's already AU evidence they shove in your face in the form of changes to Zack's original death scene and the cartoon dog.

It's either:

- Sector 6 reused
- An AU where Shinra are rebuilding the sector 7 plate
- An AU where the plate only partially collapsed

But I strongly feel that what we're seeing in the ending is after what actually happened in this game rather than a parallel universe where the plate didn't totally collapse.

There's nothing standing between sectors 6 and 8, but there definitively is in the end.

They're different skyboxes. You can't even see in that one that the sector 6 plate is only partially there.

 

[Theozilla]

But the sign is still different between the one shown in the ending and the one shown after the plate fell. The crack is different, different parts of the letters are showing, and it isn't because of the camera angle. The one from after the plate fell has a much wider crack, that doesn't even leave anything from the first V left.

The signs really aren't different, I even went back marked up where you can see the "V"s. The cracks are the same, and I can tell you that the angle that you look at things makes a huge different in how they look. There are so many optical illusion books that have examples of that phenomenon.

Guys I don't understand this theory about the plates. I think they've clearly used sector 6's assets to represent sector 7's broken plate, but even if they hadn't, the reason the other one is intact in the ending is because it's sector 8's plate, not sector 6's.

To simplify:

The neighbouring plate you see when you're looking AT Seventh Heaven is Sector 8
The neighbouring plate you see when you're looking AWAY from Seventh Heaven is Sector 6

^that's the case at all times both in the original and in the remake

You never see sector 6 (while in sector 7) during the ending. The camera doesn't look in that direction.

FWIW I believe the AU stuff is real, but the Sector 7 plate collapsed in any version of events.

I believe during the ending sequence, the scene with Marle and the sign is meant to take place in parts of the Sector 6 slums, but when they look up the animator forgot to remove the still intact Sector 7 plate.

 

[Theozilla]

How would such a major CGI movie as the ending of the entire game, escape scrutiny or continuity checking? Would they really flub such a significant scene?

I mean they let a major error like the Sector 5 area go as well (as well as the Sector 6 support pillar being absent when in Wall Market), and those errors occur over multiple chapters.

 

[Odysseus]

My head hurts...

 

[MelodicEnigma]

 

[ForceStealer]

But the Sector 6 being over Sector 5 thing is at least a bit explainable as they're continuous areas with no loading, so they both use the same skybox.

But there already is a skybox with Sector 7 gone - it's clearly gone in Chapters 13 and 14. (And I love how unsettling it is, as I posted before. What a great way to make me feel unsettled the way the residents of the slums would.)
So why wouldn't they jsut use that one in the ending?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't know. But I will believe with my entire being it's a goof over the idea that it's evidence of an AU when there's already AU evidence they shove in your face in the form of changes to Zack's original death scene and the cartoon dog.

... I don't understand, wouldn't it then make it more likely it' an alternate timeline then...?

It's either:

- Sector 6 reused
- An AU where Shinra are rebuilding the sector 7 plate
- An AU where the plate only partially collapsed

But I strongly feel that what we're seeing in the ending is after what actually happened in this game rather than a parallel universe where the plate didn't totally collapse.

Why would there be paradoxical changes within the main timeline then? Why would that be preferable and make more sense?

I mean they let a major error like the Sector 5 area go as well (as well as the Sector 6 support pillar being absent when in Wall Market), and those errors occur over multiple chapters.

This is the conclusion cutscene for the entire game, and meant to showcase their best work. I mean, it'd be the equivalent of leaving wireframe models in the ending movie and just green-lighting it. If it's an error, it's a terrible one that would warrant some sort of acknowledgement at this point, since it's so horribly diverted the intended message of the game.

Or it's a contained "what-if" happy ending meant to showcase that they did manage to save somebody even if they're left alone to face the same consequences and journey that existed before.

But the Sector 6 being over Sector 5 thing is at least a bit explainable as they're a continuous area with no loading, so they both use the same skybox.

But there already is a skybox with Sector 7 gone - it's clearly gone in Chapters 13 and 14. (And I love how unsettling it is, as I posted before. What a great way to make me feel unsettled the way the residents of the slums would.)
So why wouldn't they jsut use that one in the ending?

Exactly, it would almost have to be an intentional mistake; it takes more effort to make the fuck up happen, versus keeping it all in line.

Either Goofy is runnin' shit and needs to be fired, or there's a meaning here.

 

[Roger]

I believe during the ending sequence, the scene with Marle and the sign is meant to take place in parts of the Sector 6 slums, but when they look up the animator forgot to remove the still intact Sector 7 plate.

I really hope this is the case.

 

[oty]

... I don't understand, wouldn't it then make it more likely it' an alternate timeline then...?



Why would there be paradoxical changes then within the main timeline then? Why would that be preferable and make more sense?



This is the conclusion cutscene for the entire game, and meant to showcase their best work. I mean, it'd be the equivalent of leaving wireframe models in the ending movie and just green-lighting it. If it's an error, it's a terrible one that would warrant some sort of acknowledgement at this point, since it's so horribly diverted the intended message of the game.

Or it's a contained "what-if" happy ending meant to showcase that they did manage to save somebody even if they're left alone to face the same consequences and journey that existed before.



Exactly, it would almost have to be an intentional mistake; it takes more effort to make the fuck up happen, versus keeping it all in line.

Either Goofy is runnin' shit and needs to be fired, or there's a meaning here.

We reached the conclusion that the ending chapters of the game were pretty rushed, didnt we? Can the CGI scene be included in that timeframe or are they part of another timeframe in development?

 

[Odysseus]

Why is the 7th heave still destroyed in the same way if the plate didn't fall anyway?

 

[Theozilla]

But the Sector 6 being over Sector 5 thing is at least a bit explainable as they're continuous areas with no loading, so they both use the same skybox.

But there already is a skybox with Sector 7 gone - it's clearly gone in Chapters 13 and 14. (And I love how unsettling it is, as I posted before. What a great way to make me feel unsettled the way the residents of the slums would.)
So why wouldn't they jsut use that one in the ending?

Actually I don't think they are exactly one continuous area, they are masked by the tunnel you go through (where Aerith hides waiting for Cloud right when Chapter 9 starts). As once you go through that tunnel, the Sector 6 support pillar (though it's technically supposed to be the Sector 5 support pillar) disappears on the Wall Market side.

This is the conclusion cutscene for the entire game, and meant to showcase their best work. I mean, it'd be the equivalent of leaving wireframe models in the ending movie and just green-lighting it. If it's an error, it's a terrible one that would warrant some sort of acknowledgement at this point, since it's so horribly diverted the intended message of the game.

Or it's a contained "what-if" happy ending meant to showcase that they did manage to save somebody even if they're left alone to face the same consequences and journey that existed before.

After reading @X-SOLDIER 's thread on the Remake, it seems like the final two chapters were likely very rushed under crunch in order to get the game out in the first half of 2020, so I can entirely believe such an error could occur.

 

[SpacemanZero]

The signs really aren't different, I even went back marked up where you can see the "V"s. The cracks are the same, and I can tell you that the angle that you look at things makes a huge different in how they look. There are so many optical illusion books that have examples of that phenomenon.View attachment 5575


I believe during the ending sequence, the scene with Marle and the sign is meant to take place in parts of the Sector 6 slums, but when they look up the animator forgot to remove the still intact Sector 7 plate.

Oh man, you just refuse to see it.

See, there's absolutely no V in this picture and you can zoom so close that you can see where the board cuts so that there isn't anything left, it isn't camera angle. And the crack is really much much wider on the bottom part. And the letter's being different isn't a rendering issue, because you can see the wood under where there should be paint, and there's so much more paint on the letter in the other picture. Hell, even the crack has that light wooden tint all over the edges of it, and nothing of that is in the other sign either. Also, the letter E is completely missing the middle section because the paint has withered, there's no cracks there.

And there's so "much" of V left in this lower picture. I agree that these two here are same pictures, but they're really different from the sign that is shown after the plate fell.

 

[Makoeyes987]

We reached the conclusion that the ending chapters of the game were pretty rushed, didnt we? Can the CGI scene be included in that timeframe or are they part of another timeframe in development?

It beggars belief that they would simply be so incapable of managing a simple continuity error such as the sky in what would be one of the most key CGI movies of the entire game. Especially when they got it right previously before in game.

Why is the 7th heave still destroyed in the same way if the plate didn't fall anyway?

The helicopter crash and fires that happened during the pillar conflict. People still died and property was destroyed even before the plate fell.

 

[Roger]

So is there an a seperate alternate reality for every event the whispers tried to course correct, or do people really think Zack is gonna attack Midgar Reactors for money same as Cloud?

 

[Lex]

Like I understand the argument that people seem to be making here: they created a skybox for chapter 15 where the sector 7 plate is totally gone and then it's not in the ending. The chapter 15 skybox is less of a skybox and more of a wallbox (I'm sorry my technical terms for these things just don't exist, I'm not a developer). Like, you can't take the one they made in chapter 15 and put it in the ending. The perspective is full of debris that wouldn't be visible from the sector 7 slums:



You may also note that in this shot, on the left, the sector 6 plate looks completely intact. I can't find a perspective anywhere in chapter 15 where you can see that the sector 6 plate is only partially complete. Another goof?

 

[Makoeyes987]

....Those sign inconsistencies do exist, yet they're also extremely inscrutable. Could they really be that intended?

This is honestly very confusing and frustrating because now both conclusions carry plausibility.

What the fuck is going on here?

The biggest issue however is the plate. I find the fact they would fuck up the plate to be an error that's highly unlikely because why would it happen? They did it right; why somehow flub it here? I dunno. My head literally hurts and while I don't prefer the alternate timeline answer, it felt like a definitive answer. Now it seems even that answer is no longer as assured due to continuity flubs in animation.

I'd scream like Tidus if I didn't care about embarrassing myself.

 

[Odysseus]

....Those sign inconsistencies do exist, yet they're also extremely inscrutable. Could they really be that intended?

This is honestly very confusing and frustrating because now both conclusions carry plausibility.

What the fuck is going on here?

Final Fantasy VII Remake is going on here

 

[ForceStealer]

Like I understand the argument that people seem to be making here: they created a skybox for chapter 15 where the sector 7 plate is totally gone and then it's not in the ending. The chapter 15 skybox is less of a skybox and more of a wallbox (I'm sorry my technical terms for these things just don't exist, I'm not a developer). Like, you can't take the one they made in chapter 15 and put it in the ending. The perspective is full of debris that wouldn't be visible from the sector 7 slums:

View attachment 5581

but chapters 13 and 14 have an actual skybox with no sector 7.

 

[Theozilla]

Oh man, you just refuse to see it.

See, there's absolutely no V in this picture and you can zoom so close that you can see where the board cuts so that there isn't anything left, it isn't camera angle. And the crack is really much much wider on the bottom part. And the letter's being different isn't a rendering issue, because you can see the wood under where there should be paint, and there's so much more paint on the letter in the other picture. Hell, even the crack has that light wooden tint all over the edges of it, and nothing of that is in the other sign either. Also, the letter E is completely missing the middle section because the paint has withered, there's no cracks there.View attachment 5577

And there's so "much" of V left in this lower picture. I agree that these two here are same pictures, but they're really different from the sign that is shown after the plate fell.

View attachment 5578

We're just going to have to agree to disagree then. I marked up where I can still parts of the V's in the Chapter 13 render (including the upper V in the word "Seventh"). I won't deny that the Chapter 13 version's letters are slightly more faded, but I honestly believe that can be accounted for the different rendering environments causing smudge differences in the same asset. Those cracks are essentially the same shape in Chapters 10, 13, and 18, so that indicates the same mesh/asset is being used for the various scenes.

 

[Lex]

but chapters 13 and 14 have an actual skybox with no sector 7.

Ah of course, then it's settled! - they used the wrong one in the ending. Mystery solved.

 

[Tetsujin]

This whole thing's stupid.
Let's keep goin'!