Lmao I try to think of it as a theme song representing the story in its entirety—given that Nojima wrote the lyrics, the multi-applicable approach is justified, I'd feel.
It might be similar to the themes for the Kingdom Hearts series. The KH songs by Utada Hikaru (though somewhat standalone as a single outside of the series) are typically romantically inclined, but they express meaning gained from some major theme of the game represented. For KH1, "Simple and Clean" was applied in mind of Sora and Kairi separating at the end of the game and the changes they faced, and yet we know this applies to just more than Sora and Kairi in correspondence to "separation and change" that the song alludes to—this is most likely a contributing factor for that song being used for the 3 lead characters in BBS. (other than, like, because it's a prequel so it was easy to use, but meh)
I'm under no illusion that "Simple & Clean" was ever anything more than a catchy-as-hell pop ballad with an optimistic theme buried under a melancholy sound that perfectly encapsulated the emotions the player is left with as the credits roll. And that's just fine.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to call Hollow Cloud and Aerith's song atm but given what the sound person said about it being used for the scene as the relationship between Cloud and Aerith deepens and the usage as the distance lessens perhaps in that instance it was. T/C having their own jukebox theme is also cool though, and yeah perhaps Hollow is an overall theme about different things as well the way it was used in the park
I anticipate I might be asked for thing soon so in advance-
What I read-
"Located between Sector 5 and Wall Market, this desolate place leads to an impressive scene where the relationship between Cloud & Aerith deepens. The background music rises as the distance between them lessens"
Article screenshot thingy-
(Edit - I should have been more clear here, I meant the way the Hollow variant was used, unless I'm still confused, sorry)
I had to stop writing last night as I was incredibly upset and annoyed. Now that I've woken up I can choose my words more carefully.
Can everyone please remember the rules of the Spoiler section. There is a dedicated thread for open spoilers for the entirety of the game, and these threads, specifically, are ONLY for discussion of events within this chapter alone. This has been made quite clear several times.
Unfortunately, I have now been spoiled about why the last chapter thread has been pinging so madly. I have absolutely been enjoying the journey so far, but I've now been left with a bad taste in my mouth as I have absolutely no context about that spoiler, and it is now going to ruin the rest of the journey for me.
Again. Please guys, please be more careful and considerate when you post. I've not read the posts after but can RKSS in particular edit and remove that spoiler from your post so that no one else is effected.
Unfortunately, this means that this is now my last post on the forum until the game is complete. I wanted to share my thoughts and keep the place going during this time, but after seeing that spoiler ... I'm already going to be experiencing the rest of the game in an entirely different way as I now wonder WTF is going on.
@Claymore
I'm so sorry you saw that speculative spoiler before I was able to tag it. I hoped I had gotten there in time, but 17 minutes is a long time during a new release. =(
@rkss and everyone else for that matter
Please take Claymore's words to heart. This makes the second case of someone posting major spoilers improperly (thankfully, the first case was caught by the forum's Approval Queue). I know we're all excited to talk about this long-awaited moment/series of moments and that we all slip up, but please, please, please think about what and where you're posting.
So how long does it take to get to Aerith on average? I don't want to rush the game but I can't wait to play with/as her .. hmm feels bad. Maybe if I try to nap before midnight on Thursday then I can stay up all night or something
even though Reno looks like he has the same costume designer as steven seagal. Loved the church scene, its clearly been handled with love.
Rude is spot on.
Just going to come out and say it, I loved walking the roof tops with Aerith and picking flowers also. Random fact, Aeriths garden inspired me to look after mine when I was a kid. Still does.
The soundtrack is gorgeous...
I badly needed this chapter after the whole Roche and his shenanigans... Just don't like him I'm sorry but he's the remakes answer to Scrappy Doo. Pointless and annoying. Nearly pulled my head out of the game as he felt so forced.
Just going to put it out there.... I've developed a thing for Scarlet......sad....but true.
To be completely honest with a minor complaint, I'm not enjoying the crash bandicoot vibes with the box smashing.
Equipment: Iron Blade
Maximum score: 48850 points (SRSLY why not make the max be 50000 points )
Personal style points: Finished with 15 seconds to spare.
The special move "Triple Slash" is by far the most effective for destroying the 1500-point boxes, in my experience. Since the game only allows you to have accumulated three swords so far though I have no idea if latter sword-specials will make the minigame even easier.
Aerith's sass is the best thing. When she said "you mad?" one might as well have plastered this face all over the screen:
While I have not spoiled myself beyond Chapter 8, apart from the extremely revealing final trailer, I will put the following speculation in spoiler tags. I am presenting my perspective based on what I've seen so far and coupled with my knowledge of FFVII franchise- and lore history. I am assuming that everyone here has played the original game!
Didn't want to believe it at first, but they've really gone and done it. They have opened Pandora's Box and just like the code associated with it in the original game, it is glitched and freaky.
They have introduced pre-determined events (aka "fate") into the FFVII universe. The flash-forward to the White Materia falling down into the water is proof enough. With the Ch3 flash-forward to the Northern Crater you could have argued that Sephiroth is glimpsing the plan as he already sees it unfold, which makes sense enough since at this point Sephiroth's real body is in the Northern Crater. But the White Materia falling down where it does is too specific. That's even if we ignore the moment in Ch3 where Cloud hallucinates debris falling from the Sector 7 plate, presumably a flash-forward of the fall of the plate.
The Remake game(s) will now follow the logical consequences of this or else it wouldn't have been introduced at all.
In the past, the Lifestream was distinctly a flow of spirit energy that contained knowledge and memories of the past. Most of the memories and thoughts dissolved and spread about, but some better preserved than others (and some even crystallized into materia). Memories of the "future" was not a thing. The concept of, for example, Cetran seers was not present. All the knowledge the Cetrans had, be it of the potential devastation from Meteor, or how Chaos and Omega play into the ultimate fate of the planet, could be explained by the Cetrans simply listening to and understanding the planet. Not seeing into the future any more than a person does when they predict the trajectory of an object in motion.
But now "fate" is a thing. Since Sephiroth's influence is so clearly linked to Cloud's flash-forwards and the watchmen/guardians of fate (remember in Ch3 when a guardian hovered over Cloud and Sephiroth's voice spoke to Cloud, as though it was coming from the guardian), we have to assume that Sephiroth is privy to one or more futures. Unless Jenova cells all of a sudden have abilities that can transcend time and space, I can only think about one thing that might break these boundaries: The Lifestream.
The Lifestream will be revealed to not only be a conduit/carrier of memories for the planet, but to be connected to an even larger network. A network that can tap into the future and possibly into a multiverse. Of course when you're talking about time travel and multiverses, both these concepts can flow into each other or be separate depending on your interpretation. Time travel/Multiverses: It's a mess.
The harmless reference that the mako poisoned Cloud makes to Xenogears? Yeah, he may well have actually glimpsed into Xenogears. That whole thing about Cloud being transported to the Final Fantasy Tactics world after he fell into the Lifestream (something that I personally never understood why people took seriously as a thing that "definitely happened" in canon) may now, depending on how far down the rabbit hole that FFVIIR goes, be a VERY reasonable scenario.
With how connected the Cetrans were to the Lifestream, it's natural to think that there were Cetran seers/prophets. People who could see into the future, or at least a series of likely futures. They may have even had the power to glimpse into other worlds/universes. When these Cetrans died they remained cohesive in the Lifestream, in the same fashion that Aerith does after her death.
Enter Sephiroth who learns to freely travel the Lifestream. He finds the spirits of these seers: Cetrans who may have been considered "guardians/watchmen of fate" because of their role in making sure that Cetrans chose the path that ensured the planet's survival. But Sephiroth doesn't care about that. He wants to tap into that power of foresight. So he corrupts the spirits of the Cetran seers and so they become HIS Guardians of Fate.
But the future is chaotic. Like the Lifestream, the future and the multiverse is always in motion. Sephiroth can't have perfect knowledge of every possible future, every possible player, every possible scenario and how they interlink or divide. Sephiroth will believe he is taking the optimal path towards his own godhood. But on his quest to avoid the destiny of defeat, he will instead meet that very destiny.
Square wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want to please everyone with the Remake while simultaneously not discarding/disrespecting the original game as merely some "rough draft" that is no longer relevant. So in their vanity, they will open the doors to alternate timelines/universes IN CANON, just so lovers of the original game can easier hang on to that game as "valid". Square, who normally are bothered more with artistic freedom than with the rather western concept of "rigid canon", are desperately trying to reconcile the validity of both the original game AND the Remake. This is of course foolish. They are overthinking the matter. Trying to grasp the salmon firmly it will slip out of their hands all the easier.
Just look at the change to the reactor 1 scenario. By making the collateral damage of the explosion be because of Shinra rather than Avalanche, they are taking extra care to telegraph to the audience that the game does not romanticize eco-terrorism. (At least I believe this to be a main reason behind the change: I do not think this is a debate that will ever settle.) Yet many elements of the original script remains, such as Avalanche justifying their actions when they believe themselves to have full responsibility. Then there's the clever intermingling of the scenario with Shinra trying to start a war with Wutai, setting a precedent for the destruction of Sector 7 etc. And thus these expansions further justify the changes to the original script. It's all very clever, but I still believe it is ultimately grounded in the fear that they need to accomplish the contradictory: Keep everything the same but also not keep it the same.
In many aspects of FFVIIR I am lauding how the world and characters have been expanded. Heck, when I went outside just now and saw a poster about how to prevent the spread of the Corona-virus, my instant thought was "That's some good world-building", as though the poster was a texture imported into a PS4 game. When I saw everyday objects my thoughts turned to the realistic graphics- and world of this massive PS4 game. NowTHAT is some proof that I am absolutely enamored with what this game accomplishes.
I have not read many FFVII fanfics but I know that fanfic writers have often been better at expanding the world than Square have been. FFVIIR is, in my opinion, at long last reaching the level of writing sophistication that some fanfic writers have reached. But the source of this passion also leads to overthinking. It leads to the writers taking the care to reference even obscure parts of the Compilation of FFVII: An effort that I very much enjoy.
But my concern remains. I believe the Watchmen/Guardians of Fate were added to the script as part of Square overthinking matters. Sophisticated complexity that transitions to a tangled mess.
FFVIIR will meet its destiny on the road it takes to avoid it.
from the Temple of the Ancients. Thanks for mentioning that! It's funny because I thought back to pretty much everything Cetran except that one thing.
Miscellaneous notes
- Aerith hogging all the original lines with her saying to Reno "You're gonna catch holy hell" and saying later to Cloud that they have to "mosey".
- Was not expecting Aerith to reference Before Crisis: Chapter 11 "A Dash for Freedom". The details of Aerith trying to leave Midgar is almost definitely different in FFVIIR canon compared to how it was depicted in Before Crisis, but the key event remains the same: Aerith tried to leave Midgar years ago but ultimately she didn't. It'd be cool though if Elfe and Aerith meet each other in part 2 or part 3 of the Remake series and acknowledge that they've met before.
- It's nice to see Aerith admitting to the resilience of the flowers, which is a good counter-balance to the usual line about not stepping on the flowers. I appreciate that Cloud/the-player is allowed to walk on the flower bed, in contrast to Crisis Core where Zack was never allowed to step on the flowers.
- Aerith being afraid of the sky in Crisis Core is, in my opinion, not too weird a concept but the execution was inelegant and made Aerith appear a bit too timid. I feel like FFVIIR is honoring that part of her character but without straight up copying the Crisis Core script. The way Aerith describes the hopes and dreams of the people of Midgar as though she is describing the Lifestream I think is further hint at how Aerith is still in a form of denial. She can feel the planet calling to her and she can feel a pull towards that collective consciousness, but she is also afraid of being swallowed up by the great beyond. That's my interpretation of it at least.
- Seeing all the abandoned METAL AF Shinra war machines in the slums scrapyard was great. Shows you how far Shinra has come in their technology that they don't mind throwing away those cool mech suits.
- Back in the Sector 7 slums/undercity when NPCs mentioned the Leaf House and how Biggs is connected to it, I was afraid that this would not be followed up upon and explored. So happy that they fully developed and showed the concept. On top of that, making the Sector 5 slums a relatively homely place where multiple generations live together in peace is lovely. Definitely makes it seem more like the place where Aerith's/Elmyra's house wouldn't be burned down by the locals out of spite.
While not at all relevant, this addition of Biggs having grown up in Sector 5 reminds me of his 3D model being present here in the original game. His model is named "invis" as in invisible, true to his role, and doesn't do anything at all. He seems to only stand there as a marker for one node of the gateway to the next area but the gateway would not break if the Biggs model was removed.
Even if you turn on the field model's visibility you won't spot him however, since he is standing behind the concrete gate.
- GEE, I WONDER WHO THE ANGEL OF THE SLUMS IS. I HAVEN'T GOT A CLUUUUUUEEEEE *Hint: I do, in fact, possess a clue.
- NPCs said that they could see the fire from mako reactor 5. WHERE IS THIS GODDAMN FIRE! I couldn't spot it for the life of me. Another graphical error/oversight?
- After a guy commented on Cloud's nice sword I decided to equip the Nail Bat to see if his dialogue changed. It didn't.
- Was not at all expecting the game to involve summons in FFVII lore like that. Makes you wonder if future installments will confirm this Shiva legend as definitive truth or if they'll leave it unknown/ambiguous. In OG the permafrost was simply described as a consequence of the planet trying to heal the wound at the Northern Crater but there could easily be more to this story, possibly with Cetrans being more involved in it than we thought. And who knows, the permafrost may have even been part of a strategy to contain Jenova.
How does this stack up with the Compilation timeline? In Crisis Core, the Wutai war ended in February of [ν] – εуλ 0001. The original game starts in December of [ν] – εуλ 0007 and FFVIIR at the very least retains this as the current year via the Leaf House calendar. No idea if they've changed the current month for FFVIIR, but even if they changed to January in FFVIIR then that still leaves us with the Wutai war having ended 6 years ago if we went with the Compilation timeline for that particular event.
I do not know the nuances of cease-fires and end-of-war declarations. I don't know if a war can be practically "over" but a cease-fire only being declared a full year later. However if we assume that End-of-war == Cease-fire, then the timeline has changed for FFVIIR so that the Wutai war ended five years ago rather than six/seven years ago.
- At times, an NPC voice will not match the model used for that character. One of the most egregious examples I've spotted was at the Sector 5 train station, where this old lady talks about how hot Rude is. The voice (and dialogue) is clearly intended for a young lady but the character model is that of a cowering old woman.
....So that Reno boss fight was one of the most badass and amusing fights in the game. Reno's lines in battle are hilarious. Like holy shit, the Turks are fucking awesome.
Was able to beat Shiva with Cloud alone, that was fucking badass. I felt rather proud of that. I figured it would be worth the challenge and it was difficult but possible. Definitely need to utilize Ifrit and Elemental-Fire materia in your weapon. Shiva being able to put you to sleep however is a pain in the ass. Also, I'm apparently the only one amused by Chadley which is hilarious. Poor little Shinra boy just wanders the world alone, apparently!
The quests in this chapter were really amusing too. Managed to get all the treasures from the box breaking game. Oh.. And I totally love how I met the FFVII's Universe expy of Chocolina... Moggie. LOL that was random as hell. Hilarious and adorable. Cloud not being a believer reminds me of Lightning thinking Chocolina was full of shit until the big reveal. Interesting that apparently Cloud has a pure heart... Or the "moogle magic" is glitching out, allowing him to see him
Got my first three KOs beating that fucking giant Chromogger mark. I'm vexed that there's no accessories or anything that can prevent a wide range of status effects.
Nail Bat fucking rocks. Meeting Mireille was awesome, she didn't look like I expected her to. She looked better. Very amusing quest.
.... And Rude's entire boss fight was incredible. Holy shit, I didn't think it was possible for him to become even cooler yet somehow they did. The sunglasses getting broken and him having another pair was a great nod to AC. LOL his lines in this game were badass. Cloud's also a great smack-talker too.
On another note, the Sephiroth Copy in this chapter was very creepy and very interesting. According to the kids, Number 2 used to be a SOLDIER. Then something happened to him. What in the world could have gotten to him and made him lose himself to become a Copy like that?
Between these Sephiroth Copies now being fully Sephiroth-erized, and the Whispers themselves... Something's definitely afoot here. I'm noticing a weird pattern that's connected all of these things but I dunno how accurate it is until I see each of them in their context so for now I just have to continue seeing what these weird ass ghosts will do and be amused with how crazy everyone must look interacting with them when others can't see them.
@Shademp To me, the war is NOT over. A ceasefire is a truce. They only agreed not to keep fighting but that doesn't mean they ended the war.
The fact that ShinRa is making Avalanche to be supported by Wutai is pointing towards them finding a reason to re-start the hostilities. That's why President Shinra was saying it'd work well for them if Wutai were to say something about Avalanche.
You know what would be a plot twist? If Avalanche really was supported by Wutai
While having no problem with Aerith saying "shit", I have to say I love the Japanese dialogue more. After Cloud shows his concern and Aerith responds with: "I'm not a princess!" (meaing you don't need to treat me as one), of course the thing breaks. And she goes "うそ", which can be literally translated as "you're lying" or more adequately to something more akin to: "No way". But she does that with that certain disbelief that makes me think her head must have gone: "You're kidding, right?"
Maybe I'm just weird, but I found that part funny in the way the lines were delivered.
While having no problem with Aerith saying "shit", I have to say I love the Japanese dialogue more. After Cloud shows his concern and Aerith responds with: "I'm not a princess!" (meaing you don't need to treat me as one), of course the thing breaks. And she goes "うそ", which can be literally translated as "you're lying" or more adequately to something more akin to: "No way". But she does that with that certain disbelief that makes me think her head must have gone: "You're kidding, right?"
Maybe I'm just weird, but I found that part funny in the way the lines were delivered.
Personally I feel like her tepid little "shit" pretty much communicates the same vibe.
"I'm not some princess you need to rescue!"
*ladder breaks*
"Shit, guess I am."
Anyway, I just wanted to say what an amazing difference just being able to look up makes in this game. The original maps are all secluded, its easy to just not think about where they are relative to the greater world. In the remake, you can always see Midgar's plate hanging over you, letting you know just how massive of a world you're really in. Places like Aerith's nature paradise house are allowed to exist in that bigger context now, rather than being off putting-ly unfitting from their surroundings. It's really incredible.
I couldn't dodge, couldn't interrupt, couldn't counterattack with punisher, none of it. The only thing that got me through the fight was chugging hi-potions like a frat boy going for a record.
... Also he was far too vocal for my liking.
But he looks dope AF, so there's that.
And the second pair of sunglasses was a nice touch
I couldn't dodge, couldn't interrupt, couldn't counterattack with punisher, none of it. The only thing that got me through the fight was chugging hi-potions like a frat boy going for a record.
... Also he was far too vocal for my liking.
But he looks dope AF, so there's that.
And the second pair of sunglasses was a nice touch
One thing I consciously thought, but forgot to mention: Cloud's mom (Claudia, hahaha I love it) looks waaay too young to be his mom. She looks like a sister. Then again, maybe it's just good genes and face cream, who knows.
Haven't gotten far in Chapter 8 yeat so I can't read in here. But I want to say that fight with Reno was great and it was very satisfying to knock him on his ass (also, we were right about the "now it's my turn" line being just for the trailer.)
Lastly for now, this version of Underneath the Rotting Pizza rules.
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